I noticed a comment on the "Positive Expats" thread and I think it has to be addressed, and in my opinion the point is worthy of a topic of it's own. Thaivisa is obviously a forum for Thai ex-pats and for people with an interest in Thailand. There are people on Thaivisa who have only ever lived in one country as an ex-pat and that is obviously, Thailand. Some of us have lived as ex-pats in more than one country, and have a far broader view of ex-pat living. Here is the best advice I can give anyone who is considering moving to Thailand or any other country for that matter.

A failure to adapt will guarantee failure in Thailand.........or any other country for that matter.

Years ago an old ex-pat in Africa told me.........don't rail against the system, don't rail against the society, learn and accept it and live within it, he said the most important thing to know about living in a new society as an ex-pat is........

It is what it is........

There's no point howling at the moon about perceived injustices, shoddy service etc Learn to live within the mores of that society or you will experience a nightmare.

There are members here who I know for a fact have lived the vast majority of their adult lives as ex-pats, and they have lived in several countries, some of which would make Thailand look like Valhalla, and, for example, the Thai police look saintly.

There are too many people making rash decisions and rash assumptions about moving to Thailand and living in Thailand.

These are the same people who really do end up howling at the moon as it all goes wrong, many of them have worked in a rigid workplace in their home countries, and their home countries are places where the Rule of Law is paramount, society is understandable to them and they can rely upon medical care services etc.

" Toto, I've a feeling we're not in Kansas any more......"

One of the biggest shocks to the system for people moving to countries like Thailand is discovering that the.........

Rule of Man trumps the Rule of Law.........

That concept is alien to most Westerners and quite frankly it's probably the biggest shock they get.......when they find out it doesn't matter how right they are, the Rule of Man very often defeats them. At least in Thailand you have half a chance of getting a somewhat fair result.......try living somewhere like China or Pakistan and you'll soon find out what the Rule of Man is all about.

Briefly, about myself for those of you that don't know me, and remember there are members who have met me, and members who know me from Scotland, what I say now can be verified. I'm a businessman that lives on the edge of one of the most rough and tumble parts of Glasgow, every day in life I see and deal with people on the edge, and I see and deal with some very dangerous people on a regular basis. I don't live in an Ivory Tower.

I've had ex-pat stints in Africa, Germany, Spain and China......if you ever want to see the Rule of Man in action try Africa and China.....if you ever want to see ex-pats losing control of themselves and blowing everything in a short space of time, try the Costa del Sol......if you ever want to meet genuine gangsters and drug dealers.....same same.

I am looking to spend more time in Thailand but I do not plan in staying in Thailand on a permanent basis any time soon.......there are issues within Thai society that would prevent me from putting many eggs in that basket, never mind all of them. That being said......I am prepared to invest some money into a business in Thailand on the following conditions.........

It's money I can afford to lose, the business is one I am familiar with and involved with on a daily basis, and it's a business where I can shut it down quickly if it all goes pear shaped.

You can possibly now see where I am coming from with this topic..........don't fight the system, live within it, don't howl at the moon, it's a waste of time, and don't get yourself so far involved and committed into Thailand that you can't get out until.........

You have learned to live in Thailand...........

That is the fundamental point.........don't do anything rash or stupid.......learn to live within the mores of Thai society before you commit yourself fully to the country.....and even then have it in mind that it may still go pear shaped and you may still have to leave.....so always have an exit plan.

So there you go.......all you guys out there that think that Thailand is some unique place with it's own special set of rules.......not so. It may be unique to you as you have only ever lived there as an ex-pat.....some of us have far more experience of the ex-pat lifestyle in far rougher parts of the world.

Oh by the way......the comment that provoked this topic was......." I remember the ignorance is bliss days "........I for one, don't remember those days, as I was a four year old boy when my first ex-pat stint started. Being lifted from the streets of Scotland and dropped into the African Jungle in 1970 has a hearty way of switching you on, even at that young age.

Anyway.....as usual,

Just sayin'

I didn't read the full OP because there were too many words but I think I got the gist of it and tend to agree, I think.

'just accept everything' is no way for a cultured man to live.

A New Yorker in the West Indies couldn't believe I walked around unarmed.

To me that was an alien concept....all about inviting what is worst in society....in the end his nerves snapped and he returned home.

No doubt to his “safe“ society.

The mind boggles!

'just accept everything' is no way for a cultured man to live.

A cultured man merely makes the best of whatever cards he is dealt.

'just accept everything' is no way for a cultured man to live.

I didn't say accept everything..........

Great piece of advice... I am reminded of the story of a chap who sees his friend looking for something in the street at night under a street lamp..

'What are you doing'?

'Looking for my car keys, I dropped them over there', he says pointing to the bushes about 50m away.

'Then why are you looking here'?

'The light is better here'.

A lot of expats here keep looking for stuff in the wrong place.

'just accept everything' is no way for a cultured man to live.

I didn't say accept everything..........

Yep, change the things that can be changed, and learn to live with things that can't.

Some of us have lived as ex-pats in more than one country,

I thought you were only here as a tourist?

(So in what countries have you lived as an ex-pat?)

'just accept everything' is no way for a cultured man to live.

I didn't say accept everything..........

Yep, change the things that can be changed, and learn to live with things that can't.

You're a very wise man Thaddeus

Some of us have lived as ex-pats in more than one country,

I thought you were only here as a tourist?

(So in what countries have you lived as an ex-pat?)

I never claimed to be an ex-pat in Thailand......I named Africa, Germany, Spain and China......not Thailand.

Some of us have lived as ex-pats in more than one country,

I thought you were only here as a tourist?

(So in what countries have you lived as an ex-pat?)

Duh

Some of us have lived as ex-pats in more than one country,

I thought you were only here as a tourist?

(So in what countries have you lived as an ex-pat?)

Duh

It was a long and fairly tedious post ..... I admit it, I only read the first paragraph.

I did live in Glasgow on a full ex-pat package for a while, so I know a little about living in foreign countries too!

The correct way to handle Thailand is:

Accepting the way it is here, but moan about!

Some of us have lived as ex-pats in more than one country,

I thought you were only here as a tourist?

(So in what countries have you lived as an ex-pat?)

Duh

It was a long and fairly tedious post ..... I admit it, I only read the first paragraph.

I did live in Glasgow on a full ex-pat package for a while, so I know a little about living in foreign countries too!

Agree on the tedious bit.

I lived in an apartment block called Canal View for sometime, I came home one night and the neon name on the roof had partially failed and the letter C was unlit.

"Anal view" eh, I gave it some thought, agreed and moved.

Sometimes you need a little help to see

Some of us have lived as ex-pats in more than one country,

I thought you were only here as a tourist?

(So in what countries have you lived as an ex-pat?)

Duh

It was a long and fairly tedious post ..... I admit it, I only read the first paragraph.

I did live in Glasgow on a full ex-pat package for a while, so I know a little about living in foreign countries too!

Agree on the tedious bit.

Me too.........it's tedious going through the same old answers every single day.

I prefer to be subversive in a slow methodical way. My intention is to influence a few people to think creatively, and not accept everything without question.

I anticipate the first successful conversion by 2030.

'just accept everything' is no way for a cultured man to live.

Exactly. While I agree with much of what the OP wrote, he did fail to mention an additional group of expats.

The group who can bitch and moan when they feel the need and who still get on with their lives without fully "integrating". The group who accept that life is not always meant to be easy and everything is no black and white. Or, those who have principles that don't allow them to just accept everything they think they cannot change.

'just accept everything' is no way for a cultured man to live.

I didn't say accept everything..........

One cannot truly integrate without giving up considerably his principles, in many cases. So, yes, one would not need to accept everything, but he would need to give up quite a lot -- esp if his principles were ingrained in a reasonably civil country.

My general impression of all this is that it's a bunch of cliched generalizations. Each expat comes to their new country with their baggage, and adjusts to the new reality in their unique personal way. There is no magic formula for success or failure, nor is their a universal definition of success or failure as an expat. In my view, staying a while and then running away is a success if that's what is the best for that person.

I didn't read the full OP because there were too many words but I think I got the gist of it and tend to agree, I think.

Yes, couldn't get to the end either. I have a feeling I agree with most of it though. Even though I never lived in any other country than Thailand (and my country of birth). I guess I hit the sweet spot right away.

I didn't read the full OP because there were too many words but I think I got the gist of it and tend to agree, I think.

Yes, couldn't get to the end either. I have a feeling I agree with most of it though. Even though I never lived in any other country than Thailand (and my country of birth). I guess I hit the sweet spot right away.

So you agree with that middle section ? Thats quite extraordinary if you do.

Note to self.........TV members don't like a lot of words.

My general impression of all this is that it's a bunch of cliched generalizations. Each expat comes to their new country with their baggage, and adjusts to the new reality in their unique personal way. There is no magic formula for success or failure, nor is their a universal definition of success or failure as an expat. In my view, staying a while and then running away is a success if that's what is the best for that person.

I don't know about cliche JT.........however I do agree with you that success can be defined in many different ways. I loved my five year stint in Germany but I don't plan on living there again. Germany is in the happy memory file.

So that was a success.......just for the sake of interest, did you live as an ex-pat anywhere before moving to Thailand?

From close observation, having beedy, pointy eyes that make other people feel nervous moves you right up the list of guaranteed failure in this country.

Thailand is the only country I have been an expat in. But I use the same skill to survive here as I did with all my travle during my life. I keep a lowprofile and try to stay away from conflict. If conflict arise I take a defensive mode and wait to see which way it goes.

to this day it has been quite successful.Doing it this way I have only been left for dead in 2 countries

Keep in mind, expat is not the same thing as immigrant.

I'm beginning to understand that the definition of a successful life in Thailand is feeling it necessary to lecture others on what is and is not an acceptable way for them to live their own life in Thailand.

Keep in mind, expat is not the same thing as immigrant.

Well it is, but expats don't like reminding of the fact.