Dual Nationality Thai/uk

[hopeful]

My wife is applying for UK citizenship. She is now worried ,someone has told her if she becomes a UK citizen she wll not be able to have dual natinality, and she cannot own land or house in Thailand ,also that she will lose her pension that she has coming in from her retirement in thailand.

Any help with this please. Thanks.

[Eff1n2ret]

It's an old chestnut, it's not true either about having to surrender Thai nationality or not being able to buy land. I haven't the foggiest about pension entitlement in Thailand.

[hopeful]

Thanks Eff1n2ret but what i have read on this forum is most believe that dual nationality is permitted. BUT a lot say it is only overlooked.by the thai government, Who is right??

[hansnl]

Thanks Eff1n2ret but what i have read on this forum is most believe that dual nationality is permitted. BUT a lot say it is only overlooked.by the thai government, Who is right??

Officially, a Thai taking on another nationality should inform authorities.

The Thai nationality will then be taken away.

Getting back the nationality seems to be simple, need the birth certificate and an old passport or ID-card.

And preferably the old tambien baan

Way to do:

- Do not register your departure to another country wil the Amphur, keep your tambien baan

- Do not inform authorities in Thailand or the Embassy of accepting the UK nationality

- Depart and arrive in Thailand on your Thai passport, and the UK on the UK passport.

- Keep the Thai passport valid, ie, get a new one from the Thai embassy if the old one is out of date

- If in Thailand and your ID-cards needs renewal, do it.

[7by7]

Officially, a Thai taking on another nationality should inform authorities.

The Thai nationality will then be taken away.

The above 'information' is about 20 years out of date.

These days Thais are allowed dual nationality, taking out another nationality will not effect their Thai citizenship nor their rights as a Thai citizen in any way.

Children born with dual Thai and another nationality have the option of renouncing their Thai nationality when they reach 21; but this is a voluntary option, not compulsory.

[Maestro]

Thailand's Nationality Act applies and it is implemented correctly by the Thai authorities:

Section 13. A man or woman of Thai nationality who marries an alien and may acquire the nationality of

the spouse according to his nationality law shall, if he or she desires to renounce Thai nationality, make a

declaration of his or her intention before an official according to the form and in the manner prescribed in

the Ministerial Regulations.

...

Section 16. With respect to an alien woman who acquires Thai nationality by marriage, her Thai

nationality may be revoked if it appears that:

(1) The marriage was effected by concealment of facts or making any statement false in material

particular;

(2) She commits any act prejudicial to the security, or conflicting with the interests of the State, or

amounting to an insult to the nation;

(3) She commits any act contrary to public order or good morals.

Revocation of Thai nationality in paragraph one shall lie at the discretion of the Minister.

For your wife: original Thai text of the Nationality Act (with amendments up to 1992 only)

[Arkady]

Actually Section 22 applies not Section 13, since after the 1981 British Nationality Act there is no longer any legal mechanism for an alien spouse of a British citizen to obtain British citizenship other than by naturalization.

"Section 22. A person of Thai nationality who has been naturalized as an alien, or who has renounced Thai nationality, or whose Thai nationality has been revoked, shall lose Thai nationality."

Even this is ambiguous but with the exception of some unsuccessful efforts made by the Interior Ministry to revoke Thai citizenship from Thais naturalized as aliens in the 70s the interpretation of this section of the 1965 Act has been that renunciation of Thai nationality is optional in this case. Prior to 1965 the wording was unambiguous and revocation was enforced in the cases of marriage to an alien and naturalization as an alien.

Anyway the OP's wife should not worry about taking British nationality but do read up on other threads that explain how to get stamped in to Thailand on a new blank Thai passport that has been issued overseas and has visas in it.

Edited September 3, 2012 by Arkady

[Maestro]

Thank you for pointing that out, Arkady. It validates the mantra being repeated over and over again on this forum: if you are a dual Thai national ALWAYS use your Thai passport to leave and enter Thailand; keep your non-Thai passport out of sight of Thai immigration officers.

Interesting, the absoluteness of Section 22. No "at the discretion of the Minister", as is the case in many other clauses.

[hopeful]

Thanks for all the info guys

[stament]

Thank you for pointing that out, Arkady. It validates the mantra being repeated over and over again on this forum: if you are a dual Thai national ALWAYS use your Thai passport to leave and enter Thailand; keep your non-Thai passport out of sight of Thai immigration officers.

Can you please expand on this by explaining what the consequences could be if you didn't follow this advice?

Thanks

[mania]

if you are a dual Thai national ALWAYS use your Thai passport to leave and enter Thailand; keep your non-Thai passport out of sight of Thai immigration officers.

Actually we have not found that to be possible.

Yes my wife always used her Thai passport to leave & enter Thailand & her US to leave & enter the US

But when we came back to Thailand both on visits & now to live,

Yes she shows her US passport to leave the US & her Thai passport to enter Thailand.

But,

At the point of entry it is always asked where are the stamps? The ones you got when you entered the US.

At that point she states she is dual nationality & they look at her US passport.

Nothing further is asked & never had a problem.

The same question is asked when we enter the US & she has no stamp in her US passport to say where she has been.

Edited September 6, 2012 by mania

[p_brownstone]

Thank you for pointing that out, Arkady. It validates the mantra being repeated over and over again on this forum: if you are a dual Thai national ALWAYS use your Thai passport to leave and enter Thailand; keep your non-Thai passport out of sight of Thai immigration officers.

Can you please expand on this by explaining what the consequences could be if you didn't follow this advice?

Thanks

Not quite sure what part of the advice you are unclear on - so.

1) If you are a Thai National and enter Thailand on another Countrys' Passport you will be treated just as any other foreigner entering Thailand and be subject to the same restrictions on length of stay etc. etc..

2) If you let the Immigration Officer see both Passports there should be no real problem - Thailand has no laws against Dual Nationality, however some junior Immigration Officer may not know that and cause a fuss. If this happens simply ask, politely, to speak with a Senior Officer who will know the rules.

Patrick

[Mario2008]

It depends, for a person who has applied for Thai nationality and recieved it (naturalized to become Thai) it does matter, as you cannot use the passport of your other nationality. Naturalized persons must always enter Thailand on their Thai passport, if spotted entering on a foreign passport immigration has instructions to report such person for possible revokation of the Thai nationality.

[Maestro]

Thank you for pointing that out, Arkady. It validates the mantra being repeated over and over again on this forum: if you are a dual Thai national ALWAYS use your Thai passport to leave and enter Thailand; keep your non-Thai passport out of sight of Thai immigration officers.

Can you please expand on this by explaining what the consequences could be if you didn't follow this advice?

Thanks

I was browsing through Thailand's Nationality Act today and came across the answer to your question. Remember that this topic is about a Thai national acquiring British nationality through naturalisation. In the following quote from the law, the highlighting is mine.

Section 22. A person of Thai nationality who has been naturalized as an alien, or who has renounced Thai nationality, or whose Thai nationality has been revoked, shall lose Thai nationality.

Therefore, although you have lost your Thai nationality by law, you can, if you wish, continue to use your rights as a Thai national within Thailand as long as you do not make the Thai government, eg the immigration police, aware of the fact that you have acquired another nationality through naturalisation.

The situation is different if the spouse's nationality is not acquired through naturalisation. In this situation,the law explicitely allows dual nationality as long as the spouse does not renounce his/her Thai nationality and the Interior Minister does not accept the renunciation:

Section 13. A man or woman of Thai nationality who marries an alien and may acquire the nationality of the spouse according to his nationality law shall, if he or she desires to renounce Thai nationality, make a declaration of his or her intention before an official according to the form and in the manner prescribed in the Ministerial Regulations.

Nevertheless, it is advisable also in this situation to always use the Thai passport in Thailand so as not to give the impression that one no longer has an interest in one's Thai nationality.

[Arkady]

Maestro. Technically your interpretation of Sections 13 and 22 are correct except for the fact that revocation of Thai nationality is never automatic. Re Section 13 I think that there are now very few countries left apart from Thailand that still have specific provisions to allow alien wives to adopt the nationality of their husbands. This is a pre-World War II concept that is based on the assumption that the alien wife's original nationality would have been automatically revoked on her marriage to a foreigner, as indeed it would have been under British and Thai law in those days. Most countries, including the UK, now simply provide a faster track to naturalisation to spouses of their nationals but the process is naturalisation nonetheless.

The other important point is that the Thai Nationality Act does not provide for automatic revocation of nationality in any circumstances. Instead the law provides a process for voluntary or involuntary loss of Thai nationality that has to be initiated by Special Branch and forwarded to the Interior Ministry where it must be considered by a committee. If approved by the committee, the renunciation or revocation must be signed by the Interior Minister who has personal discretion either to accept or reject the committee's recommendations. Once the minister has signed the order, loss of Thai nationality is effective on publication in the Royal Gazette.

To sum up, a Thai who has been naturalised as an alien, as a result of marrying an alien or otherwise, has not lost their Thai nationality, unless an order to this effect has been announced in the Royal Gazette. In my researches in the Royal Gazette going back to the late 60s I was unable to find even one case of a Thai national who lost their Thai nationality as a result of naturalising as an alien or a naturalised Thai who lost it. There have been many cases of involuntary revocation but virtually all have concerned Thais who obtained Thai citizenship through birth in Thailand to alien parents with a handful being wives who had adopted the nationality of their Thai husbands.

The order to Immigration officers at borders to report details of Thais who present two passports to Special Branch in order to initiate revocation procedures is somewhat mystifying. In fact, it referred to all Thais, not just naturalised Thais, but is specific to the case where the traveller has entered on one passport and attempts to leave on the other. However, there is no evidence that Immigration has thus far reported any such cases to Special Branch. This order was no doubt genuine and was posted in Thai on an Immigration website. When challenged on the legal basis of the order, the poster who appeared to be a senior immigration officer, cited a letter dated in the early 70s from the Interior Ministry to the Foreign Ministry asking for the cooperation of Thai embassies and consulates overseas in providing details of Thais with other nationalities residing overseas, so that revocation procedures could be initiated against them. However, again there is no evidence from the Royal Gazette that any revocations resulted from this type of cooperation, if it was forthcoming, and, indeed, Thai embassies abroad today go so far as to provide advice to Thai dual nationals on how to juggle their passports when travelling.

Anyway none of this detracts from your critical advice that Thais should always insist on entering (and leaving) Thailand on their Thai passports.

Edited September 27, 2012 by Arkady

[meatboy]

Thanks Eff1n2ret but what i have read on this forum is most believe that dual nationality is permitted. BUT a lot say it is only overlooked.by the thai government, Who is right??

my wf has had dual nat.since 2000,leaves the uk on one passport and enters on her thai one,she bought a house 2008 in thailand so its just stupid gossip or jealously.

[ttnice30]

Yes, you can carry both British and Thai Passport. My sister has married to a British Guy and she does that.

[Maestro]

Maestro. Technically your interpretation of Sections 13 and 22 are correct except for the fact that revocation of Thai nationality is never automatic...

Thank you very much for this clarification, Arkady.

(Mr. Thaksin is safe, then, at least under the present government. The previous government missed the chance, or decided not to use it)

[Arkady]

Maestro. Technically your interpretation of Sections 13 and 22 are correct except for the fact that revocation of Thai nationality is never automatic...

Thank you very much for this clarification, Arkady.

(Mr. Thaksin is safe, then, at least under the present government. The previous government missed the chance, or decided not to use it)

You can be sure that, if a case like that ever came up, it would be impossible to get hold of any evidence that he ever naturalised as an alien. Even they did, he could then say he had renounced other citizenships which would then make revocation of his Thai nationality illegal under the International Convention on Stateless Persons of which Thailand is a ratified signatory.

The only revocation case I have ever seen where firm evidence of having another nationality was a case in 2004 where a British-Thai guy provided the evidence himself by entering and leaving Thailand on his British passport. In most of the others the evidence was circumstantial in as much as absence from the Kingdom for more than 5 years was cited in violation of Section 17.1, rather than confirmation of a foreign passport. However, this Section doesn't apply in Thaksin's case since he is Thai through birth to Thai parents.

[wolfgirl2010]

can a thai citizen who also becomes a United States citizen have dual citizenship and also may own and buy land or own a business in Thailand?

[ubonjoe]

can a thai citizen who also becomes a United States citizen have dual citizenship and also may own and buy land or own a business in Thailand?

Yes they can.

There is no restrictions of any kind because of having dual nationality.

There is also none for being married to a foreigner either.

[Thongkorn]

If you leave On One passport British and return on another, Thai , the Airline is libel to a fine, If you leave the UK on One, you should return on the same passport or you could be returned to the County you have just left. OK maybe you have got away with it but they are tightening up, and its not so easy to do now, as most UK passports have Bar codes on , which they swipe and there is a record of its use.

Edited January 16, 2014 by Thongkorn

[Jay Sata]

Duplicate post removed

Edited January 16, 2014 by Jay Sata

[Jay Sata]

If a Thai could lose their nationality and rights this way the man from Dubai can never get back!

[Jay Sata]

If you leave On One passport British and return on another, Thai , the Airline is libel to a fine, If you leave the UK on One, you should return on the same passport or you could be returned to the County you have just left. OK maybe you have got away with it but they are tightening up, and its not so easy to do now, as most UK passports have Bar codes on , which they swipe and there is a record of its use.

Not correct.

Leaving Thailand the airline is only concerned you have a visa for your destination. eg your wife or spouse uses her UK passport to check at BKK then shows her Thai passport to immigration who will staple her departure card in it. Airline then checks her passport or visa for UK before boarding.

The same applies in reverse returning to Thailand. A simple process so forget the bar experts.

Edited January 16, 2014 by Jay Sata

[Thai at Heart]

If you leave On One passport British and return on another, Thai , the Airline is libel to a fine, If you leave the UK on One, you should return on the same passport or you could be returned to the County you have just left. OK maybe you have got away with it but they are tightening up, and its not so easy to do now, as most UK passports have Bar codes on , which they swipe and there is a record of its use.

Says who?

[Thai at Heart]

if you are a dual Thai national ALWAYS use your Thai passport to leave and enter Thailand; keep your non-Thai passport out of sight of Thai immigration officers.

Actually we have not found that to be possible.

Yes my wife always used her Thai passport to leave & enter Thailand & her US to leave & enter the US

But when we came back to Thailand both on visits & now to live,

Yes she shows her US passport to leave the US & her Thai passport to enter Thailand.

But,

At the point of entry it is always asked where are the stamps? The ones you got when you entered the US.

At that point she states she is dual nationality & they look at her US passport.

Nothing further is asked & never had a problem.

The same question is asked when we enter the US & she has no stamp in her US passport to say where she has been.

Indeed, and the last time I left with my kids, immigration wanted to see a visa for the kids to enter the UK.

Of course they have a passport.

[Thongkorn]

As I have said you cannot leave the UK and return on another one. But prove me wrong try it please.