Rutnin Eye Hospital - Good/ Bad?

[Jingthing]

I think it depends on what you're doing. I think Thailand can be very good for things like dentistry and routine surgery like cataracts. For state of the art major heart surgery I'd prefer the Mayo Clinic over any place in Thailand any day.

[Sheryl]

There are many doctors in Thailand who completed formal residencies and/or fellowships in the US and are US board certified.

[Tywais]

Just removed an off topic and inflammatory rant post. This topic is about Rutnin Eye Hospital.

[OLDAUSSIE]

Further to my prior posts:

Four days ago I attended Rutnin for cataract surgery on my right eye. After this treatment my opinion of the hospital is excellent. The facilities are first class and the staff ease the patients through the procedure in a friendly and competent manner.

The surgeon I had selected ----- who had previously explained all aspects of the surgery including fully answering my questions in detail ----- continued this approach prior to each step of the procedure. Dr. Roy Chumdermapetsuk (known in the hospital as Dr. Roy) obviously believes in ensuring that his patients are as fully informed as possible. His brief summaries prior to each step are obviously intended to reduce patient anxiety and were appreciated.

Arriving at 12 noon the staff suggested I have lunch at the hospital coffee shop. A little before 1 pm I went to the third floor where shoes/sox/watch/wallet and shirt are replaced by a theater gown. I was then placed in a semi private cubical on a reclining armchair to wait.... and wait. Two + hours. Perhaps three -- no watch. Sedatives and many eye drops are given. Complimentary foot massage is offered.

Eventually taken to the pre-theatre room where two anesthetic injections were given below the eye above the cheek bone. These cause loss of sight ( and I assume immobilization of the eye)

then finally into theater for the actual surgery. This took probably about thirty minutes.

With my right eye covered I was released at about 7.30 pm & told to come back at 11 am the next day. At about 11.30 Dr Roy examined my eye -- took some tests and photos and after questioning me on pain/discomfort (very little) handed me over to the nursing staff --- requesting a review in one month. As we live far from Bkk he asked me to have an examination locally in 3 days to check for any signs of infection. He emphasized that should I have any unusual pain etc to contact Rutnin immediately. My eye was a little uncomfortable --- but the clarity of vision was remarkable .. even then!

Nurses provided a "care kit" with cleaning materials/antibiotics and pain meds. The cost was at the lower end quoted -- 55,000 Bt.

Even at this early stage the result is excellent. Dr Roy & I had decided to seek a particular vision outcome and it seems that he has achieve exactly what was intended. Having been short sighted for thirty+ years but never requiring reading glasses he proposed that rather than aiming for 100% perfect distance vision (which would in my case would demand reading glasses) that instead he would "wind the clock back" and aim for 85-90% distance vision and allow me to continue to read without glasses.

Nothing during or after was painful --- simply varying degrees of discomfort -- far from fun -- but no real pain.

I am told that my vision shall continue to improve over the next two weeks or so.

I should have done this 2 years ago!!

Thank you for keeping us informed. Great post.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

My Thai wife spashed a bit of cleaning solution in her eye over the weekend, and was experiencing some discomfort in one eye, and thus wanted to be checked by an eye doctor. Independent of my notions, the folks at her work recommended Rutnin, as both her Thai boss had gone there before and her boss advised Rutnin had also treated the King (I can't vouch for that, just that's what my wife's boss told her).

It was finally last night that the wife finally decided she needed to go, thus we were heading to Rutnin this morning (Wednesday) without an appointment. Their website says the outpatient clinic hours begin at 8 am, but we arrived about 7:30 am and I noticed on the video display screen inside the hospital entrance that it infact says opening at 7:30 am on weekdays. So the moment we walked in the door, my wife was able to start dealing with the receptionist as a first time patient and filling out the various forms and getting a Rutnin ID card and a card giving us a user ID and password to use for the facility's free wifi service.

That took just a few minutes, they we went up to the second floor to check in there with the nurses station, where they sent my wife for a pre-appointment eye check that only took a few minutes... After finishing that, the staff advised that they have a patient lounge on the second floor, so we went there for a half hour or so until the doctor arrived. The lounge has complimentary water, tea, coffee and some packaged cracker snacks, as well as a desk with a number of Mac computers.

Went back to the doctor's office area, my wife had her appointment shortly after 8:30 am, and we were then done with the cashier and out the door by 9 am... not bad considering we had no appointment and given the accounts of long waits posted earlier in the thread. Though admittedly, we weren't there seeing any specialist, just a general eye doctor. The bill for just the doctor consultation -- no medicines or other extras required -- was 740 baht.

That total price is probably about the same or a bit less than you'd pay just for a doctor's fee at various of the major farang hospitals...and that's before they start adding on the various surcharges about nursing fee, facility fee, service fee, wrong time of the day fee (just kidding on the latter ).

Can't comment on the medical care, as the wife went in alone, and the doctor said he found nothing amiss.

[Pui]

Went for eye examination today at Rutin eye hospital. My appointement was for 1:00 and got there 30minutes early to register etc. I was seen at 3:00pm.

After the initial examination I was taken to lounge area and had eye drops put in my eye without explanation and left to wait for a further 45minutes. This time was spent blind and in pain again without explanation in a noisy busy waiting area. I cannot recall being more uncomfortable.

Finally I was called back into the doctors office for a second examination. One of the questions raised was cost. We where told 45,000 per eye. I left and said I would do some research into cataracts and be in touch.

After this my wife an I where led into another office where it was explained that it would be 60,000 per eye instead of 45,000. When asked the lady said "THE PRICE DEPENDS ON YOUR NATIONALITY, SIR!" My nationality hasn't changed from when I was in the other office. I left the room and let my wife continue but dual pricing is the policy of the hospital.

[lopburi3]

Am sure sure why you were in pain from the dilation eye drops (which is normal for any complete eye exam - perhaps an allergy and you should have reported it as they are normally not very painful and there are several drugs that can be used) - 45 minutes does not sound excessive - takes my wife an hour or two each time to fully dilate. As for price the 55-60k amount is what we have always seen on forum so may be pegged to your nationality or it could have been a different IOL implant. The 60k was for a basic mono vision lens?

As I have mentioned earlier Thai wife had operation a month ago and package price was 35k at Vejthani but even there several prices were mentioned prior to operation including 39k and 60k. Doctor and lens choice can also make a difference and staff/doctor may not be reading from the same script.

[Sheryl]

I think it is the "without explanation" part that probably tipped the balance and made this something of an ordeal for the poster.

Unfortunately very common in Thailand., Probably a bit worse for farangs as limited English speaking on the part of nursing and admin staff may be a factor (even when they can speak some English they often hesitate to try) but frankly it is done to Thais all the time as well. Pretty much everywhere, nothing hospital specific.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

There is an answer to this for the farang medical consumer in Thailand.

Sheryl's correct, of course, about the normal lack of explanation/communication among the Thai medical providers, as a general rule.

But I take this approach: It's my money...and it's my body...

So before any Thai doctor or nurse does any procedure on me, gives me any medication or anything similar, I REQUIRE a clear and understandable explanation in English first. What are they using, what's involved, what will it do, what should I expect, etc etc...

Normally in my years of experience here at farang-oriented hospitals, that hasn't been much of a problem. The doctors don't typically volunteer it (a clear explanation with the level of detail and elaboration I'd expect)... But they'll usually provide it if asked.

If I can't or don't get that, then they don't prescribe me any medication or render any treatment. If necessary, I'll go elsewhere.

In the case of Rutnin and the OP's post, that hospital clearly has sufficient and capable English speaking staff to render any explanation/information required by the patient.

[tig28]

Hi TallGuy

In the case of Rutnin and the OP's post, that hospital clearly has sufficient and capable English speaking staff to render any explanation/information required by the patient.

Surprisingly I found this not to be the case. English communication by the nursing/office staff is poor -- compared to other hi-end hospitals in Bangkok ... such as BNH or Bumrungrad. I really had to laugh when in responce to my initial email inquiry.... I was contacted by phone by someone who could not speak English.

Having said that -- it is worth pointing out that the doctor I dealt with spoke perfect English & I was perfectly satisfied as explanations were given re all the steps I need to undertake for the evaluation.

Most importantly the procedure was conducted flawlessly and I could not be happier with Rutnin.

[lopburi3]

Rutnin is not a foreign targeted facility and the great majority of the patients are Thai. They are the premier eye treatment facility in Thailand and as such have a large foreign usage but it is not by policy/design (as is the case with some hospitals/dental/skin facilities). That said have had no language issues in my limited usage over a period of four decades.

[Sheryl]

I actually do not find the English speaking capacity of nursing and administrative staff to be very good at any hospitals, including those specifically catering to foreigners. Doctors yes, but nursing & support staff, no.

In fact I have even found this to be so at the international desks of some of the major "international" hospitals.

Not that this in any way excuses putting drops in someone's eye with no explanation at all.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I would concur with some of the comments above, in that generally at farang oriented hospitals, it's not a problem to find a doctor with decent to good English skills... That was my main point.

I'd also agree that the English capacity of the nursing staff at such hospitals is generally not so proficient. with the capability depending a lot on the individual hospital... But in my experience, usually in any given department at any particular time in the farang oriented hospitals, there's at least some nurse who's decent at English.

For that reason, I always look to get my explanations from the doctors... not the nurses. But if I needed something from a nurse and the one with me wasn't decent at English, I'd at least ask her to get a co-worker who could speak decent English.

Most of the farang oriented hospitals also have an international customers/patients desk where English is always spoken among various language speakers available. If worse comes to worse, a patient can also ask for them to serve as intermediary.

It may take a bit of asking on the patient's part, but there's usually a way to bridge the communications gap. I suspect that would also be the case at Rutnin.

[isawasnake]

I am surprised at the way the discussion is turning. I could give a rats ass about how much English a doctor speaks, if he is good (or very good) that is more than enough for me, and should be for anybody else too, unless your priorities are messed up. Think about it like you car and a mechanic (surprised I even have to use the analogy), would you rather have an English speaking hack, or a top notch mechanic that could not speak a lick of the stuff? I know my answer, and I guess I know some of yours too, but it kinda boggles the mind is all.

All that isn't saying that I don't want English, but that if given the choice between talent and English, I'd take the talent. When it comes to your health (or anything really), the problems are going to come from a lack of talent and ability.

[Fookhaht]

I also add my vote to those confirming Rutnin as a top-notch facility: The most professional treatment I've had, medically, in Thailand, for a reasonable cost.

Six or seven years ago, I spent a full morning there for treatment of a severely scratched cornea. It was my first visit. At the end of the procedure, I was presented a bill for "650." Assuming it was $650 USD (that would have been normal in my home country, and I was obviously a foreigner) I pulled out my credit card.

The clerk looked at me with a bit of pity and asked, "Sir, don't you have just 650 Baht on you?"

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I am surprised at the way the discussion is turning. I could give a rats ass about how much English a doctor speaks, if he is good (or very good) that is more than enough for me, and should be for anybody else too, unless your priorities are messed up. Think about it like you car and a mechanic (surprised I even have to use the analogy), would you rather have an English speaking hack, or a top notch mechanic that could not speak a lick of the stuff? I know my answer, and I guess I know some of yours too, but it kinda boggles the mind is all.

All that isn't saying that I don't want English, but that if given the choice between talent and English, I'd take the talent. When it comes to your health (or anything really), the problems are going to come from a lack of talent and ability.

What an odd post... You seem, inexplicably, to be starting off with the presumption that someone thinks English skills are more important that competent medical skills. I don't think anyone even remotely suggested that. And for me, I want both... a good doctor who also can communicate well with his or her patients.

But of course, in your example, if you can't communicate with the doctor because he/she doesn't speak much English, just how exactly are you going to have any basis for judging whether the doctor is competent or skilled, if you can't ask questions, judge his/her answers and knowledge, not to mention being an informed an active participant in your own medical care.

[lopburi3]

Several posts removed per forum rules.

[Rooo]

Well I go in on Friday for pre op treatment. will let you know how it goes.

[Rooo]

Well things didn't work out. I was due to do the pre op physical on Friday, followed by the OP on Saturday if all was OK.

They called me Thursday evening after 6.30 telling me that they had a problem with the operating room & they had to cancel till sometime next week.

Do they only have one operating theatre ? The truth slipped that my doctor was overseas & on his way back.

Well can you tell me when next week ? No.

I have plane ticket & hotel booked, so what do I do, these are not refundable, basically told me not our problem.

I had to go to Samitijev anyway, but that wasn't the point, I booked extra days for the procedure & fitted these other appointments whilst I was there at Rutnin.

So whilst doing my other procedure at Samitivej, I decided to call on their eye clinic. Saw the doctor there & had a talk with him before doing any tests. He asked me a lot of questions & told me to ask anything I wanted. After discussion , I found out that the multifocal lenses are not the way to go for me, they are OK if you do not do much reading or extensive use of computers. In his opinion they are not for me & will not be happy with the result. I fully understand that now , as my eyes are different in what strength they need.

After extensive testing of the eyes & taking measurements of strength, I am gettiing Mono Focals & will wear glasses for reading.Reducing my need for correction for distance to zero .

Now that throws a bit of doubt about the claims made by the first doctor , he had me so excited, I didn't ask the obvious questions as I didn't know the difference in strentgh . He probably failed to tell the down side & the short comings of the t.

type of lenses ( multifocals )

Now the good part, the cost. Rutnin quote on mono focals 66 to 72 K + 3500 for pre op physical & lab work +3000 for Meds.

Samitivej 45000 up to 55000 ( if need special tools in my case no ) so 45000 + 6000 Physical & Lab work, xrays & EKG +3000 Meds.

So getting a second opinion for me was worth it, again not rubbishing Rutnin , but their admission department & me perhaps not asking the right questions. But I will cast doubt on the Doctors claims.

Funny thing is after having my consultation at Samitivej I disclosed the other doctor's name. To my amazement he knew him well as he was my doctor's junior there for a while.

So perhaps no matter where you go it is perhaps best to get a second opinion, I also thank some Lopburi for making me think about the effectiveness of these multifocal inserts.

PS Get my OP Sunday 3 pm & go back on Monday for a check, if all OK I can go home Tuesday.

[Khonwan]

I went to Rutnin for a full eye test (my first and only such test) around two years ago. I mentioned that I wanted them to specifically include testing for glaucoma (since my maternal uncle had it) and uveitis since I have ankylosing spondylitis. I was impressed by the place in general, the staff, and the procedures but less so with the doctor. He came across as one who did not welcome discussion or questions. He did, however, ask me why I was concerned about uveitis but then dismissed any connection between uveitis and ankylosing spondylitis. I did not have enough knowledge at that moment to debate with him but checked with medical sources on the internet when I left and found numerous articles connecting the two conditions. I was very unimpressed by his poor knowledge on this eye disease. Language was not an issue – I don’t recall which language we used but I speak sufficient Thai.

[johnbits]

I was disappointed in Rutnin Hospital failure to reply to several emails inquiring if they did a specialized type of retina surgery.

I had an epiretinal membrane which are cells that accumulate on the surface of the retina, often as a result of the vitreous in the eye contracting and pulling from the back surface of the eye as we age. A majority of people get this after the age of ~50, but they don't know it because it doesn't cause a problem. They can measure the thickness of an epiretinal membrane with an Optical Coherence Tomography test. Basically this is a imaging technology used for taking cross-sectional pictures of the retina.

Sometimes these cells contract and like scar tissue it will cause the retina to wrinkle, this is often called a macular pucker.

At first this can cause a straight line to look like it has a slight bend in the middle, but for me it got worse to where it looked like vaseline was smeared on by eye. Everything in one eye was fuzzy, and depth perception was difficult since it looked like double vision. Many people get the initial symptom of a bend in a straight line, rarely it progresses to something like I had that causes more severe vision distortion.

The only solution for this is to peel the membrane off of the surface of the retina, like peeling the skin of an onion without damaging the onion. After the membrane is removed, the retina slowly flattens out, which can take 2-6 months and up to 2 years. So your visions gets better, but it may never return to perfect, it's just not predictable.

What is involved in the surgery is to replace the vitreous (fluid) with a clear fluid. The vitreous has to be drained while the new fluid is injected, if one drained the vitreous without replacing the fluid the eyeball would deflate like a balloon. This is called a vitrectomy.

Then they go in with very small forceps and peel off the membrane. It's an easy to understand but a delicate procedure, I don't think too many eye centers do this type of surgery, but it's hard for me to know how common this is done.

One needs to decide before the surgery if you will want to also get the lens in your eye replaced, as in cataract surgery. The very common result of getting a vitrectomy is that a cataract will begin to form within 6-12 months, it's not predictable how fast the cataract will form and when it will need to be removed, but it is nearly a sure thing that this will happen.

When I looked at the Rutnin web site, I saw they had a sub-specialty of Vitreo-Retina, but that covers a lot of things like detachments and macular degeneration. I wasn't able to get any response from them.

I eventually decided to get this done at Bumrungrad International Hospital, I could have also selected Bangkok Hospital as they also did this type of surgery.

It could be if I went in for an examine, they would have told me if they could help, but i like to know ahead of this what they can do for me.

[Sheryl]

A post has been removed in keeping f=with Thai law on defamation