Lens Rentals

[LivinLOS]

Does anything like this exist in Thailand ??

I am really struggling with some upgrade thoughts.. I am trying to get better low light non flash shots.

More $$ lenses on my entry level dslr (canon 450 currently using f1.8 50mm prime for this task).. Going for a used 5d Mkii and same lenses.. Or even going M43rds with f1.4 or even the f0.95 manual focus option.

I am going round and round with specs and sheets but really just need some time to shoot with the options to get a feel for what I can do. If I could rent the

EF 50mm f1.2 USM

EF 50mm f1.4 USM

For a while it would really help clear up what I can achieve with the APS-C versus the full frame 5D.. The cost of rental would be worth it to know which direction to spend as the f1.2 is a bit spendy.

The m43rds is appealing in so many ways for convenience, for the ability to be less imposing when shooting in bars and low light.. More able to capture that candid off guard moment.. But I am unsure just how much of that ambient glow I can get out of those sensors (but dam_n it could be cheap in comparison.. GH2 body and f1.4 is a steal when you look at it).

[MJP]

How about a Panasonic Lumix LX7. 24mm (35mm equivalent) and f1.4 lens. Shoots RAW too.

I have the LX5 and it's a great little camera.

[LivinLOS]

Yeah its on the list of possible options..

Kind of feel that m43 would give me more growth room.. But as you accurately point out its close to my need in a cheap package. Wouldnt get that lovely softness and shallow DOF tho. Would capture the light but not bring out the subject as much.

If staying small sensor I can fudge it with my kit and a LED Keychain / red LED keychain lights.. And then I come back to why would I do that when I could have the f1.4 on the d450 fairly cheap also.. Or how much better is the f1.2.. And how much difference does the 'edge' of the full frame give the shot in terms of smoothness. I am getting to the point where reviews are not really telling me anything.

[MJP]

Yeah its on the list of possible options..

Kind of feel that m43 would give me more growth room.. But as you accurately point out its close to my need in a cheap package. Wouldnt get that lovely softness and shallow DOF tho. Would capture the light but not bring out the subject as much.

If staying small sensor I can fudge it with my kit and a LED Keychain / red LED keychain lights.. And then I come back to why would I do that when I could have the f1.4 on the d450 fairly cheap also.. Or how much better is the f1.2.. And how much difference does the 'edge' of the full frame give the shot in terms of smoothness. I am getting to the point where reviews are not really telling me anything.

Lumix GX1 would give you more options, especially as you can still get the 20mm f1.7 pancake lens for it.

A 5D II is a vast thing and in the spirit of the DSLR thread, for people who want to take good photos, a big DSLR will sit in the cupboard.

Fujifilm X100 is another option. Sony RX100 another.

Or . . . the soon to be released Fujifilm X-E1. Has the same X-Trans sensor as the X-Pro1.

http://www.photographyblog.com/news/fujifilm_x-e1/

[LivinLOS]

Yes to the GX1.. Tho I am mighty confused by lumix's numbering GH3 GF3, Gx, G3.. Jeez wheres the differentiation.. But I wouldnt pair it with anything over the summilux 25mm f1.4 and am really curious as to how the Voitlander nokton f0.95 would handle what I want.

Basically I am out of the loop on M4/3 and kind of catching up in the last week or so on lens options in the class. The appeal of rangefinder sizing and the lower costs are of course huge, but will it give me what I need ??

I know a 5D is big.. and the F1.2 glass is also kind of weighty too.. I was using it a week ago very briefly.. But it just took such wonderful shots. Thing is I will have to drop a good 2k GBP for a used 5D Mk2 and the F1.2 lens.. Rapidly doubling that for a new Mk3 and any lens selection.

I really should have written more of a background on what I am trying to achieve and what I am used to.. I am mostly a 'snapper' and not too serious into photography but I am involved with a bar and want to get great shots to promote it. I also love a certain type of night shot and getting it isnt easy. Low light, no flash, soft glowing ambients need really fast lenses.. And thats where I am caught as to how much to spend to get what results.

Just as a guide this was shot in the bar a few days ago.. 5D f1.2 50mm prime for most of these.

Now I cant get shots like that out of my 450D with 50mm f1.8.. I can get close, but none with that kind of impact.. I can cheat a little by bleeding some light into the scene, but that glow ?? Just cant get it. And I am getting maybe 25% of my shot without some blur and mess so lose a load of great expression just because my hands cant hold it. OK you can spray and pray but its a shame to not capture the moment when it comes.

Now would either of the the F1.4 or F1.2 50mm primes get me there ?? The F1.4 seems a fair price upgrade.. But the F1.2 strikes me as being spendy enough I may as well get a full frame body.. Sure its money (and complexity and weight) but its then the real deal when it comes to both body and glass.

M43rds is appealing.. It might even have 'close to' the above shots with the right lenses.. I dont know.. I am trying to scan flicker etc for the nokton images.. But manual focus, heavy glass 1000 dollar lens ?? Would it get me there ??

[MJP]

Yes to the GX1.. Tho I am mighty confused by lumix's numbering GH3 GF3, Gx, G3.. Jeez wheres the differentiation.. But I wouldnt pair it with anything over the summilux 25mm f1.4 and am really curious as to how the Voitlander nokton f0.95 would handle what I want.

Basically I am out of the loop on M4/3 and kind of catching up in the last week or so on lens options in the class. The appeal of rangefinder sizing and the lower costs are of course huge, but will it give me what I need ??

I know a 5D is big.. and the F1.2 glass is also kind of weighty too.. I was using it a week ago very briefly.. But it just took such wonderful shots. Thing is I will have to drop a good 2k GBP for a used 5D Mk2 and the F1.2 lens.. Rapidly doubling that for a new Mk3 and any lens selection.

I really should have written more of a background on what I am trying to achieve and what I am used to.. I am mostly a 'snapper' and not too serious into photography but I am involved with a bar and want to get great shots to promote it. I also love a certain type of night shot and getting it isnt easy. Low light, no flash, soft glowing ambients need really fast lenses.. And thats where I am caught as to how much to spend to get what results.

Just as a guide this was shot in the bar a few days ago.. 5D f1.2 50mm prime for most of these.

Now I cant get shots like that out of my 450D with 50mm f1.8.. I can get close, but none with that kind of impact.. I can cheat a little by bleeding some light into the scene, but that glow ?? Just cant get it. And I am getting maybe 25% of my shot without some blur and mess so lose a load of great expression just because my hands cant hold it. OK you can spray and pray but its a shame to not capture the moment when it comes.

Now would either of the the F1.4 or F1.2 50mm primes get me there ?? The F1.4 seems a fair price upgrade.. But the F1.2 strikes me as being spendy enough I may as well get a full frame body.. Sure its money (and complexity and weight) but its then the real deal when it comes to both body and glass.

M43rds is appealing.. It might even have 'close to' the above shots with the right lenses.. I dont know.. I am trying to scan flicker etc for the nokton images.. But manual focus, heavy glass 1000 dollar lens ?? Would it get me there ??

For what you want I'd seriously look at Fujifilm's X series offerings, in particular the X-Trans sensor models. The X-Pro1 just had a firmware update to sort out the AF issues. The Fujinon 35mm f1.4 at high ISO (almost no noise with the X-Pro1) would do it for you. Also great for street shooting, a 5D will stand out too much.

The Voigtlander Nokton has issues from what I've read.

[LivinLOS]

Thanks.. will add it to my research list..

Seems like its approaching full frame money (not quite) for f1.4 performance ?? and only 3 lens options ?? I will have to do some digging to see how it shots but am curious if you think its that much better than say a GH2 or GX1 or similar and summilux 25mm f1.4 I am guessing that could be sub 1000 and purely on paper headline spec wise is close ??

I am not against a 4/3 or rangefinder style system... I am just ignorant to them and not had a chance to shot with any. If I can get those kind of shots from a smaller unobtrusive package I am all for it.

[MJP]

Thanks.. will add it to my research list..

Seems like its approaching full frame money (not quite) for f1.4 performance ?? and only 3 lens options ?? I will have to do some digging to see how it shots but am curious if you think its that much better than say a GH2 or GX1 or similar and summilux 25mm f1.4 I am guessing that could be sub 1000 and purely on paper headline spec wise is close ??

I am not against a 4/3 or rangefinder style system... I am just ignorant to them and not had a chance to shot with any. If I can get those kind of shots from a smaller unobtrusive package I am all for it.

More lenses out next year and prices dropping too.

The X- E1 is worth the wait I reckon. Its opening price here in the UK is £800 whereas the X-Pro1 was £1400. X-Pro1's now down to £1100.

I've read that the difference between f1.2 and f1.4 is minor. It comes down to how well the camera can handle noise at higher ISO for night shots. It's why I reckon the X-Trans will do it as noise is only noticeable by its absence all the way up the ISO range as a few articles I've read have said about it.

That 35mm f1.4 will also give you the classic 50mm (at 35mm equivalent) frame.

Read up about the X-Trans sensor and how it differs from the traditional Bayer sensor. The only issue at the moment is post-processing in Lightroom, tricky algorithms.

Anyways . . . here's what I could do with the LX5 at f2.0, handheld with plenty of post processing (and that was just in Silkypix). I'm a real bad amateur too, so you don't need anything wildly special to achieve what you want.

[LivinLOS]

For me its all in that ambient glow.. Its hard to get over that the bar those shots are taken in, which seem brightly lit, is really dim / dark / with just a few LED rope lights around in it and some white light for staff to work behind the bar. Yet in those shots its glowing.

Same environment taken with my s95 at f2 no flash.. If I dont cheat and feed some light in.. Just a dark grungy mess.

[MJP]

Oh forgot to add. Tripod!

If you're in a fixed situation like a bar then a tripod is ideal if coupled with a remote trigger. You can use a lower ISO over handheld and longer exposure.

[LivinLOS]

Interesting and relevant as the options are, I would still rent a f1.4 50mm prime and f1.2 50mm prime if it was possible in Thailand ???

[LivinLOS]

Oh forgot to add. Tripod!

If you're in a fixed situation like a bar then a tripod is ideal if coupled with a remote trigger. You can use a lower ISO over handheld and longer exposure.

Yeah.. Tripod is a line in the sand I dont want to go past really..

Handheld..

[LivinLOS]

Also a comment on the 5d being vast... On Bali I spent the day with a 40d and one of the lenses my brother packed was a 100 - 400mm beast..

Now thats vast !!

A 5d and 50m prime seems positively sane compared to that.

[MJP]

For me its all in that ambient glow.. Its hard to get over that the bar those shots are taken in, which seem brightly lit, is really dim / dark / with just a few LED rope lights around in it and some white light for staff to work behind the bar. Yet in those shots its glowing.

Same environment taken with my s95 at f2 no flash.. If I dont cheat and feed some light in.. Just a dark grungy mess.

I reckon you could do with Lightroom 4. Shoot the S95 in RAW format and post-process. Try it, it may just work and save you a fortune.

The photos above were taken with no flash or artificial lighting. It was the post-processing which made them work.

The 'glow' and out of focus background blur is called bokeh. I'm no expert on this, but the bigger the sensor and the slower the exposure at night, the better the bokeh (others will hopefully fill in any other details on this, also has to do with the shape of the lens blades).

[MJP]

Also a comment on the 5d being vast... On Bali I spent the day with a 40d and one of the lenses my brother packed was a 100 - 400mm beast..

Now thats vast !!

A 5d and 50m prime seems positively sane compared to that.

My DSLR is a Pentax K-5 which is a reasonable size. Depth of field on this thing is great. Sadly only really gets used for work and can't really see me using it for anything more than that.

[LivinLOS]

The photos above were taken with no flash or artificial lighting. It was the post-processing which made them work.

while they may have had a tweak since.. They are usually coming out of the camera like that.. Only times the raw files usually get tweaked are to try to reduce noise and smooth down grain.

The 'glow' and out of focus background blur is called bokeh. I'm no expert on this, but the bigger the sensor and the slower the exposure at night, the better the bokeh (others will hopefully fill in any other details on this, also has to do with the shape of the lens blades).

Dont think night has as much to do with it, same effect in daytime use now ?? but the fast lens at full aperture is creating a tight DOF.. Bringing the subject out and blending the background. This is where full frame pays its dues for all the hassle of carrying it around.

I struggle to see which of the smaller options are going to beat the canon d450 I already have with the addition of a f1.4 cheapish (225 quid new) lens.. But the step from that D450 and 1.6 cropped APS-C sensor with 50mm (so effective 80mm and no idea on f stop) up to full frame and f1.2 50mm is just a huge leap. Its a cost leap too but a leap in output. Where those same lenses do on my body, is the mystery I face and why I would like to test them.

As to its size.. I can just eave the dam_n kit in the bar if it annoys me.. Always there then.

[MJP]

Oh forgot to add. Tripod!

If you're in a fixed situation like a bar then a tripod is ideal if coupled with a remote trigger. You can use a lower ISO over handheld and longer exposure.

Yeah.. Tripod is a line in the sand I dont want to go past really..

Handheld..

LX5, f8, 30 sec exposure, cheapish tripod . . .

Try a tripod. Well worth it.

[LivinLOS]

Try a tripod. Well worth it.

Thats street landscapes tho..

Girls dont stand still for 30 seconds..

[MJP]

Try a tripod. Well worth it.

Thats street landscapes tho..

Girls dont stand still for 30 seconds..

<lol>

Must be some pro photographer services where you are. If it's for advertising work, see how much it is for them to come in and do a shoot.

[MJP]

http://www.studiosota.com/Photography/recentworks.php#

These are in Bangkok.

[LivinLOS]

I am unsure why your so insistent that I dont want what I think I want..

But I want a camera.. In a bar environment every night... To capture images like the above.. To constantly feed to the social networking and blog sites.. which is continual and ongoing promotion.

My options as I see them still are.

1) add a f1.4 or even f1.2 to my current entry level dslr.. I can see some sense in the F1.4 but think a 1500 usd lens on a non full frame body a bit of a waste.

2) go hog wild and get a full frame body and the f1.2 lens.. Now your talking maybe 3k or so.. but its proper quality kit.. Its also cumbersome and heavy but man, those shots. THATS the shots I want.

3) go small and light and cheap.. Think GF2 or GH2 or GX1 or any one of a bunch of smaller systems I dont know much about and the fastest lenses M4/3rds has.. That or the X-Pro 1.. This whole area is a mystery to me but I think it might sorta work, but will it ever really get me that smooth, soft background, ambient light glow.. Searching flickr under those lenses I dont see them, maybe one or two.. On the upside, I could pack it around, take shots elsewhere than the bar, and its probably a fraction of the cost.

So option 3 is my big unknown and needs further research, but I can work out option 1 or 2 results if I can rent and try the two lenses mentioned.

[LivinLOS]

http://www.studiosot...ecentworks.php#

These are in Bangkok.

Great.. The bar is in Phnom Penh

[MJP]

I am unsure why your so insistent that I dont want what I think I want..

But I want a camera.. In a bar environment every night... To capture images like the above.. To constantly feed to the social networking and blog sites.. which is continual and ongoing promotion.

My options as I see them still are.

1) add a f1.4 or even f1.2 to my current entry level dslr.. I can see some sense in the F1.4 but think a 1500 usd lens on a non full frame body a bit of a waste.

2) go hog wild and get a full frame body and the f1.2 lens.. Now your talking maybe 3k or so.. but its proper quality kit.. Its also cumbersome and heavy but man, those shots. THATS the shots I want.

3) go small and light and cheap.. Think GF2 or GH2 or GX1 or any one of a bunch of smaller systems I dont know much about and the fastest lenses M4/3rds has.. That or the X-Pro 1.. This whole area is a mystery to me but I think it might sorta work, but will it ever really get me that smooth, soft background, ambient light glow.. Searching flickr under those lenses I dont see them, maybe one or two.. On the upside, I could pack it around, take shots elsewhere than the bar, and its probably a fraction of the cost.

So option 3 is my big unknown and needs further research, but I can work out option 1 or 2 results if I can rent and try the two lenses mentioned.

Trying to think of either cheaper options (very much cheaper) or alternatives which are smaller and better (technology having moved on).

[LivinLOS]

Well if anyone can show me shots that are like those ones above.. Even 'almost there' in a smaller cheaper package.. I am all ears.. I keep trawling flickr with different lens searches..

But shooting with other small sensor cameras even entry level DSLRs and F1.8 prime.. and its nowhere close so far. I am getting the feeling that its all in the glass and sensor size, something thats very hard to shrink.

But I am happy to find out otherwise.

[McMagus]

I agree, an f 1.2 EF on a non full frame is a bit of a waste. I have been using an f1.4 EF on my old 5 D and I'm very happy with the results. Sure it is not an 'L' lens but I figure I'm getting about 90%+ of the quality at about 30% of the price. The only thing an f 1.2 MAY do for you is better edge to edge resolution / clarity when wide open....and on an APS c sensor like the 450 you are not using the edges anyway. I would seriously consider the old 5D ( Mark 1) because with a lower pixel density over the newer EOS 450, it will exhibit less noise at higher ISO, it is still IMHO the 'Queen of the Night'. Also the other benefits of a full frame 'proper' depth of field and out of focus highlights which always look great at night.

Just a thought.

[LivinLOS]

Hadnt much looked at the Mk1 5d.. I thought the higher pixel sensor of the mkII made a good case.. And the added video stuff of the mk3 is not interesting for me.

Not fully sold on that route.. Trying a F1.4 on my 450 would be a good experience to suss out.

[ricku]

A thread about lens rentals, but still zero information on where to rent.

There are dozens of good rentals for camera gear in cities like Hong Kong and Singapore, so why are there no lens rentals here in LOS??

Is it just because this is a less-developed country? Too bad, because lens rentals are uber convenient.

[FracturedRabbit]

Hadnt much looked at the Mk1 5d.. I thought the higher pixel sensor of the mkII made a good case.. And the added video stuff of the mk3 is not interesting for me.

Not fully sold on that route.. Trying a F1.4 on my 450 would be a good experience to suss out.

Going back to your earlier questions...

The Nokton F0.95 is a great lens, but a little soft at 0.95, and the depth of field is to small for portraits if you are reasonably close. It sharpens up from F1.4 onwards. But it is manual focus so you need the time to get the focus right; maybe that is not an issue for you. I use mine for product photography and it produces stunning shots.

The Summilux F1.4 is a great lens with the "Leica look"; but if you want to do portraits then something longer will give you less distortion.

The Olympus 45mm F1.8 is a fantastic little lens with wonderful IQ and great for portraits, and it is relatively inexpensive.

The Olympus 75mm F1.8 is my personal favourite and is wonderful for discrete street shooting, but if you want to do posed portraits with it, you will need to stand back a little way.

I find the MFT cameras great for discrete shooting, much less invasive than a DSLR. I have the GX1, which seems to have dropped in price (although maybe not in Thailand) because it is due for a refresh; but any of the recent models will serve you well (Panny G5, Olympus EM-5, new PENs). They don't mind shooting at higher ISOs and any noise cleans up nicely.

Check out Robin Wong's reviews of some of these lenses to get an idea of what they are capable of.