Visa For The Old Or Too Sick To Travel,what Options

[RubbaJohnny]

While not immortal I am still able to do my 90 day reports and annual visa visit.

However thinking ahead what do immigration do with folks to sick to travel.

Can a married mans visa be renewed by wife etc or a lawyer with Drs note without long journeys please?

Or will immigration evict the halt and lame from the Hopsitals and hopsices on gurneys to the airport?

I ask now as there must be some experience from older/sicker members or those with friends loved ones in these circumsatnces.

Much debate here is about time money convenience but there comes a stage where these issues are the least pressing appreciate any advices.

WILLS

Usefulness of Thao or other wills and their legality ,will a Thai will be acceptable for probate in UK or Australia would it be prudent to have this translated ,notarise deposites with embassy/lawywer

I look forward to your help and thank you for taking trouble to assist in the final "Visa Run",I imagine Heaven will be not unlike here while Hell Swampy!

Edited October 12, 2012 by RubbaJohnny

[NancyL]

Anyone can do 90 day reports for someone else. Hubby and I do each other's frequently.

Another party can obtain a retirement visa extension, if the visa holder has signed a power of attorney for the other party, there is a doctor's note that the visa holder can't come to Immigration and the also, they want to see photos of the visa holder, looking sick and handicapped. This same power of attorney can specify that the POA also has the ability to get a bank letter. I don't know about Embassy proof of income. The American consulate here in Chiang Mai will do a home "welfare visit" to notarize an income letter for a sick American. Don't know if other countries do this.

The POA doesn't need to be held by an attorney. Anyone can do it, including someone's wife.

If someone is here on a tourist visa or an O visa where they have to do border runs but physically can't, then it's possible to obtain a medical extension. Again, this requires a doctors letter and are good for just 90 days max -- some doctors won't write them for more than a month, especially if the ill person isn't paying their medical bills.

Speaking of which -- if someone pays their medical bills, chances are good they will be able to remain here forever, provided someone is helping them with their visa maintenance.

Edited October 12, 2012 by NancyL

[RubbaJohnny]

Thanks for a prompt and helpful reply

[gamini]

I can see a situation when we get very old and bedridden not having the 800k. What would immigration do then??

[NancyL]

If someone is old, bedridden and doesn't have 800K any more, then medical extensions are an option. Also, frankly, sometimes people in this condition just go on "permanent overstay" provided they remain under the radar. Immigration isn't out beating the bushes looking to deport someone in this condition.

About the OP's other question of whether a Thai Will would be accepted in his home country. I don't know, but I do know about the reserve situation. A foreign Will is accepted here, but there are delays for the Will to be translated, certified and run thru the Thai court system. Eventually the foreign Will is probated.

The prudent course is to have two Wills -- one for your assets in Thailand and another in your home country for any assets you have have there. Oh, and it's helpful if both Wills list the same beneficiary or at least make it very clear, like your foreign assets go to your kids from a former wife and your Thai assets go to your Thai wife.

[bangkokburning]

I think a person will have serious issues when they are unable to physically at least get themselves to Immigraion office if not out of the country. My experience reading this board and a number of years here - Imigration does not really care. If for whatever reasons you cannot avail extentions, you are going to have a bad time. I believe medical visa is basically for procedures and recovery.

If you are deathly ill or bed ridden - even with bills and notes from hospital. Does not see to matter so if you are not in hospital and only homebound/bedridden - good luck!

[moe666]

There have been a few reports here over the years that immigration will cut sick folks a bit of slack

[NancyL]

I think a person will have serious issues when they are unable to physically at least get themselves to Immigraion office if not out of the country. My experience reading this board and a number of years here - Imigration does not really care. If for whatever reasons you cannot avail extentions, you are going to have a bad time. I believe medical visa is basically for procedures and recovery.

If you are deathly ill or bed ridden - even with bills and notes from hospital. Does not see to matter so if you are not in hospital and only homebound/bedridden - good luck!

So, have do you have personal experience or first-hand knowledge of a situation where Immigration was less than kind to a long-term resident who was ill, infirm, house-bound and known to have lived in the community for a long time? Especially if they have assistance from someone who is also know by them to be trustworthy?

I have either been directly involved or have first-hand knowledge of at least a dozen cases of people in this situation in Chiang Mai and found Immigration to be very accomodating.

The cases where expats end up on permanent overstay and try to fly under the radar are situations where the person either doesn't have sufficient funds or justify a marriage/retirement extension or they are unwilling to develop an on-going relationship with a doctor. Of course, these are people who really should be under a doctor's care.

Edited October 13, 2012 by NancyL

[harrry]

I have a lot more respect for immigration here, at least in how officials apply not great law, than I have in my own country. I have found that if I am reasonable to them they will find a way to solve a problem///I do not mean with money either. Who you are counts a lot. If you have a clean record with them and have not been trying to exploit the system too much by working on multiple tourist visas without a reason they will go out of the way to bend the law in your direction. I am not too worried that when I can no longer make it to them myself they will continue to make retirement visas or if needed a medical visa available.

Edited October 13, 2012 by harrry

[uptheos]

If someone is old, bedridden and doesn't have 800K any more, then medical extensions are an option. Also, frankly, sometimes people in this condition just go on "permanent overstay" provided they remain under the radar. Immigration isn't out beating the bushes looking to deport someone in this condition.

Very well said Nancy.

[sysardman]

If someone is old, bedridden and doesn't have 800K any more, then medical extensions are an option. Also, frankly, sometimes people in this condition just go on "permanent overstay" provided they remain under the radar. Immigration isn't out beating the bushes looking to deport someone in this condition.

Very well said Nancy.

Yeah live dangerously, I think anybody that's in that condition couldn't give two flying f**ks anyway.

[bangkokburning]

No Nancy - not first hand. Just reading and talking -

twenty years in Asia

And just because it somehow works for the dozen people you 'personally' know, in CM dont think its universal.

In your churlish trolllike comment I guess you missed my comment...

"READING THIS BOARD"

Edited October 14, 2012 by bangkokburning

[baboon]

If someone is old, bedridden and doesn't have 800K any more, then medical extensions are an option. Also, frankly, sometimes people in this condition just go on "permanent overstay" provided they remain under the radar. Immigration isn't out beating the bushes looking to deport someone in this condition.

Very well said Nancy.

Yeah live dangerously, I think anybody that's in that condition couldn't give two flying f**ks anyway.

Quite. It would be difficult to throw someone in that condition out of the country anyway - what airline would accept them for travel? I suspect none, therefore what good would locking them up in the IDC do when the only outcome would be a dead body and a ton of paperwork?

[cooked]

I think a person will have serious issues when they are unable to physically at least get themselves to Immigraion office if not out of the country. My experience reading this board and a number of years here - Imigration does not really care. If for whatever reasons you cannot avail extentions, you are going to have a bad time. I believe medical visa is basically for procedures and recovery.

If you are deathly ill or bed ridden - even with bills and notes from hospital. Does not see to matter so if you are not in hospital and only homebound/bedridden - good luck!

I was in Kap Choeng immigration last week when one of the officers asked an elderly person in the queue how old he was. !93! He did look a bit doddery. The officer told him that he can get a police officer to come to his house for the 90 days thing, he should do that next time.

The 90 days thing is not about annoying Farangs (although it does) but about the fact that the officers want to know where you are living. We had a policeman/immigration officer come to our house unannounced the day after we made our first application for a visa extension, so this is the kind of thing that they are used to doing.

[NancyL]

No Nancy - not first hand. Just reading and talking -

twenty years in Asia

And just because it somehow works for the dozen people you 'personally' know, in CM dont think its universal.

In your churlish trolllike comment I guess you missed my comment...

"READING THIS BOARD"

Yes, I realize my post did sound a bit churlish, but I don't know about trolllike.

Anyway, I'm speaking from my (limited) personal experience and I monitor this forum to learn of the personal experience of others. That's why I asked if you personally knew someone who had gotten into difficulties because they were too infirm or ill to go to their Immigration office personally.

That's the value of this board -- we all share our personal or first-hand experiences and together we can develop a picture of the reality of the visa process. Idle spectulation and unfounded fear-mongering aren't especially helpful.

In "READING THIS BOARD", no one's been able to point to a single example of someone being deported for simply being too infirm to go to Immigration.

Edited October 14, 2012 by NancyL

[Soutpeel]

I was in Kap Choeng immigration last week when one of the officers asked an elderly person in the queue how old he was. !93! He did look a bit doddery. The officer told him that he can get a police officer to come to his house for the 90 days thing, he should do that next time.

The 90 days thing is not about annoying Farangs (although it does) but about the fact that the officers want to know where you are living. We had a policeman/immigration officer come to our house unannounced the day after we made our first application for a visa extension, so this is the kind of thing that they are used to doing.

Or of course he could get some else to go into immigration and do the report for him

[OJAS]

I was in Kap Choeng immigration last week when one of the officers asked an elderly person in the queue how old he was. !93! He did look a bit doddery. The officer told him that he can get a police officer to come to his house for the 90 days thing, he should do that next time.

The 90 days thing is not about annoying Farangs (although it does) but about the fact that the officers want to know where you are living. We had a policeman/immigration officer come to our house unannounced the day after we made our first application for a visa extension, so this is the kind of thing that they are used to doing.

Or of course he could get some else to go into immigration and do the report for him

But presumably he managed to get to Immigration in person the day before their officer came calling - as he will have to for each further legitimate extension of stay he needs.

Edited October 14, 2012 by OJAS

[cooked]

Oh dear. The purpose of the 90 days check is so that the officers know where you live. You can get proof of domicile through various methods, you may wish to go into this, physical presence at immigration is not absolutely necessary.

You may also want to read my post again. Mate.

[OJAS]

Oh dear. The purpose of the 90 days check is so that the officers know where you live. You can get proof of domicile through various methods, you may wish to go into this, physical presence at immigration is not absolutely necessary.

You may also want to read my post again. Mate.

OK profuse and abject apologies for misreading your post the first time. I shall now shoot myself in the head for committing such a heinous crime.

Edited October 14, 2012 by OJAS

[sysardman]

Oh dear. The purpose of the 90 days check is so that the officers know where you live. You can get proof of domicile through various methods, you may wish to go into this, physical presence at immigration is not absolutely necessary.

You may also want to read my post again. Mate.

OK profuse and abject apologies for misreading your post the first time. I shall now shoot myself in the head for committing such a heinous crime.

Make it a good clean shot mate, don't want to end up bedridden and miss your 90 day reporting

[RabC]

I think a person will have serious issues when they are unable to physically at least get themselves to Immigraion office if not out of the country. My experience reading this board and a number of years here - Imigration does not really care. If for whatever reasons you cannot avail extentions, you are going to have a bad time. I believe medical visa is basically for procedures and recovery.

If you are deathly ill or bed ridden - even with bills and notes from hospital. Does not see to matter so if you are not in hospital and only homebound/bedridden - good luck!

From personal experience I can tell you that you are totally wrong. Only last month I did an extension on an O visa for an old Gentlemen who was not fit enough to go to the immigration office let alone a visa run. All that was required was a letter from the Doctor on a specific Immigration form, the normal paperwork and copies of Passport along with the standard 1900 baht extension fee.

I did all the work in Immigration for the old fella as he couldn't get there, the staff were nice as pie and I was in and out in 15 minutes

Please either know what you are talking about or keep quiet.

[OJAS]

Another party can obtain a retirement visa extension, if the visa holder has signed a power of attorney for the other party, there is a doctor's note that the visa holder can't come to Immigration and the also, they want to see photos of the visa holder, looking sick and handicapped. This same power of attorney can specify that the POA also has the ability to get a bank letter. I don't know about Embassy proof of income. The American consulate here in Chiang Mai will do a home "welfare visit" to notarize an income letter for a sick American. Don't know if other countries do this.

The POA doesn't need to be held by an attorney. Anyone can do it, including someone's wife.

Nancy’s power of attorney point is IMHO an important one. This might ultimately prove the only satisfactory solution for retirees (or other long-stay non-immigrants) in the event of their becoming physically or mentally incapacitated in tandem with their advancing years. Whilst others might well be able to visit Immigration on their behalf for a 90-day address report or (with a doctor’s letter) an annual extension of stay application, what would otherwise happen if they had become too incapacitated to even complete or sign the necessary TM47, TM7, etc forms themselves?

And is there likely to be any chance of Immigration waiving the doctor’s letter requirement if the applicant’s designated power of attorney were to visit Immigration on their behalf for a further extension of stay?

I am seriously considering the possibility of appointing my Thai wife to act as my power of attorney for completing and signing Immigration forms, requesting Embassy proof of income letters (we Brits can seek these from our Embassy in writing upon provision of the necessary documentary evidence), etc in the event of my becoming too decrepit to perform such tasks myself.

The question would then arise as to whether any power of attorney appointment obtained here in Thailand would also empower my wife to act on my behalf in connection with (e.g.) landlord decisions relating to my rented-out house in the UK, or whether a separate power of attorney appointment under British law would be needed for this purpose.

I would therefore appreciate hearing from anyone who has appointed a power of attorney on their behalf here and still has significant financial, etc affairs to deal with in their native country. And to anyone who might feel that I am raising a ridiculously far-fetched and unlikely scenario in this posting, I would merely point out that my sister and I were faced with precisely this situation with both of our late parents in their final years (although, mercifully, they were spared any dealings with Thai Immigration).

[NancyL]

In my personal experience, which has been in Chiang Mai, a limited POA can be obtained with someone's thumbprint and countersigned by a couple nurses in the hospital, with the hospital putting an official looking stamp on it. The POA was for the expressed purpose of obtaining a retirement extension -- one time. There was also a letter from the hospital verifying that the person was currently in hospital. Also, I've done a limited POA for someone out of hospital, but with a doctor's letter that the person couldn't travel. In the several cases I've handled, I've always brought photos of the person. These POAs were not done by an attorney, but just something I put together in looking at examples on the internet. The only challenge was once from a bank manager when I was trying to get an income letter. They wanted to verify MY identity, which involved a $50 stamp at the U.S. Consulate.

In situations where a person's need for assistance is going to be on-going, I've referred people to a professional visa agent. In my limited experience, most Thai people don't understand the ins-and-outs of the visa extension process, don't ask questions and don't politely challenge officials when they're told something that doesn't make any sense. The skill-set needed for someone to be a good caregiver for an elderly expat is entirely different than the skill set needed for someone to obtain a visa extension for a third person. For example, Thai people are used to the driver's license process and think that visa extension is the same way, i.e. just show up at the Immigration office on the day the visa expires (or maybe a couple days after), fill out a few forms and get the extension. The process of getting bank or consulate letters is very foreign. Visa agents understand the process.

About having a general POA in place for business in your home country -- why not appoint someone in the home country? We've done this with our attorney in the U.S. and he sometimes takes care of business for us, but only after receiving email instructions from us.

Edited October 15, 2012 by NancyL

[bangkokburning]

I think Immigration far easier to renew the annual extention than to say start a new one or extend a tourist visa for a second month based on a dubious note from a clinic or perhaps even hospital— when you are not evenin hospital, but in your domicile relaxing.

Of course people that are ill can get help reporting. Hell, you can mail it in.

As for RabC— Great, but one incident from one office, especially bkk does not one law make.

Again - the way I read this was the person was 'sick' maning to me not especialy ill nor life threatening. Hence, I do/did not see much sympathy from Immigration on said persons second extension of TR on some dicey note from a clinic.

Not looking to pick a fight w Nancy or anyone else.

You people have read a lot into the op's words. Appears to me as - minor illness, unable to getto Immigration at the moment, maybe even a few weeks.

Edited October 15, 2012 by bangkokburning

[OJAS]

I think Immigration far easier to renew the annual extention than to say start a new one or extend a tourist visa for a second month based on a dubious note from a clinic or perhaps even hospital— when you are not evenin hospital, but in your domicile relaxing.

Of course people that are ill can get help reporting. Hell, you can mail it in.

As for RabC— Great, but one incident from one office, especially bkk does not one law make.

Again - the way I read this was the person was 'sick' maning to me not especialy ill nor life threatening. Hence, I do/did not see much sympathy from Immigration on said persons second extension of TR on some dicey note from a clinic.

Not looking to pick a fight w Nancy or anyone else.

You people have read a lot into the op's words. Appears to me as - minor illness, unable to getto Immigration at the moment, maybe even a few weeks.

I for one have far more confidence in what the likes of NancyL & RabC have to say than in the nonsensical drivel which you are spouting on this thread.

[RubbaJohnny]

Thanks everyone,fortunately I am not to infirm,yet.

None of us is getting any younger and thePOA and prior preparation is to spare my loved ones and the authorities unecessary concerns.

It is surely prudent to act while you still can.

Interesting that a foreign will is acceptable.

Anybody done this.Of course it would need translation by approved trannslation agency.

Would it also require any local endorsement by embassy,immigration Poo Yai Ban etc?

[moe666]

I think Immigration far easier to renew the annual extention than to say start a new one or extend a tourist visa for a second month based on a dubious note from a clinic or perhaps even hospital— when you are not evenin hospital, but in your domicile relaxing.

Of course people that are ill can get help reporting. Hell, you can mail it in.

As for RabC— Great, but one incident from one office, especially bkk does not one law make.

Again - the way I read this was the person was 'sick' maning to me not especialy ill nor life threatening. Hence, I do/did not see much sympathy from Immigration on said persons second extension of TR on some dicey note from a clinic.

Not looking to pick a fight w Nancy or anyone else.

You people have read a lot into the op's words. Appears to me as - minor illness, unable to getto Immigration at the moment, maybe even a few weeks.

To extend a tourist visa for 30 days is no problem as it is almost automatic no medical excuse needed. If you are sick after the extensin then you may need a note from dr. or hospital to avoid overstay

[bangkokburning]

Moe, I guess you missed within my post despite me stating TWICE - second extension. More I think about it perhaps even srcond extension on a non O as well unless done by Thai spouse.

Im done here.

[OJAS]

None of us is getting any younger and thePOA and prior preparation is to spare my loved ones and the authorities unecessary concerns.

It is surely prudent to act while you still can.

Hear, hear

I guess you missed within my post despite me stating TWICE - second extension.

Given that you couched both statements in verbose garbage, is that really any surprise?

[cooked]

In view of the fact that immigration will send an officer to your address to confirm that you actually are alive and living where you say you do (which is the purpose of the 90 days reporting), much of the above sounds unnecessarily complicated to me. This advice was offered spontaneously in my presence last week, by an immigration officer to an elderly man who didn't look like he should be outdoors.

Does anyone ever actually call up immigration and ask them when they have problems? I rarely see posts where someone has actually done this, a lot of surmising and supposing going on amongst expats without actually getting feedback from an official.