Western Motorbike Driver

[Rajab Al Zarahni]

I you were taking a guess, what proportion of westerners driving motorcycles in Thailand do you suspect of not have a motorcycle licence in their home country? Do you think that farangs driving motorcycles for the first time in Thailand is widespread? Generally I would say that many of the most experienced drivers in the UK are motorcyclists.

I don't have a license for a motorbike back home but i got a Thai one does that count ?

I was thinking in terms of those who have never passed a test in any country.

[robblok]

I you were taking a guess, what proportion of westerners driving motorcycles in Thailand do you suspect of not have a motorcycle licence in their home country? Do you think that farangs driving motorcycles for the first time in Thailand is widespread? Generally I would say that many of the most experienced drivers in the UK are motorcyclists.

I don't have a license for a motorbike back home but i got a Thai one does that count ?

I was thinking in terms of those who have never passed a test in any country.

To be honest the test in Thailand is not hard at all, i learned most of the driving afterwards. I did have some experience driving small m/c back home. But they were not supposed to go as fast as these ones. Anyway after riding here a couple of years in BKK i know how to behave in traffic. I drive a 250 and 135 cc. I would love to go up to 650 cc but i worry i will kill myself.

Im a careful driver but extra speed can kill here in Thailand.

[smedly]

I'm not taking sides here and I believe the OP did nothing wrong according to his understanding of the road laws here and in the west, but I will say this - I have noticed that when riding in a Thai driven car as passenger many times - driven a car here many times - and the owner and rider of a bike, thai car drivers tend to give a little more room to MB's on roads here than falangs, there are hundreds of bikes darting around you all the times and adopting the Thai car driving style of leaving plenty of room for bikes is advisable - I've even been in a car with a falang driver who constantly complained and got frustrated at MB's going up the side or both sides and in front and openly venting his anger generally at these f'ing pests getting in his way, lesson drive slowly leave room and tolerate the the little buzzing 2 wheeled things that are coming from everwhere all of the time.

[simple1]

I'm not taking sides here and I believe the OP did nothing wrong according to his understanding of the road laws here and in the west, but I will say this - I have noticed that when riding in a Thai driven car as passenger many times - driven a car here many times - and the owner and rider of a bike, thai car drivers tend to give a little more room to MB's on roads here than falangs, there are hundreds of bikes darting around you all the times and adopting the Thai car driving style of leaving plenty of room for bikes is advisable - I've even been in a car with a falang driver who constantly complained and got frustrated at MB's going up the side or both sides and in front and openly venting his anger generally at these f'ing pests getting in his way, lesson drive slowly leave room and tolerate the the little buzzing 2 wheeled things that are coming from everwhere all of the time.

I concur with your comments regards being aware at all times of motorbikes whilst driving and not over reacting. However, it's been mentioned in other topics the danger posed is the lack of spacial awareness by many motorbike drivers; this is a real challenge in avoiding accidents.

Edited October 23, 2012 by simple1

[smedly]

yes I agree, I get cut up all the time by thai MB riders trying to sqeeze into a space that isn't there when riding my big bike, they just need to get in front of me no matter how, but while driving a car it is better to leave the gap and expect someone to fill it, if the OP had hit the motorbike he would most likely have been blamed even though technically he did nothing wrong - Thai or falang the outcome would have been the same.

[simple1]

_{yes I agree, I get cut up all the time by thai MB riders trying to sqeeze into a space that isn't there when riding my big bike, they just need to get in front of me no matter how, but while driving a car it is better to leave the gap and expect someone to fill it, if the OP had hit the motorbike he would most likely have been blamed even though technically he did nothing wrong - Thai or falang the outcome would have been the same.}

I'm the OP and in the specific instance I quoted, the western driver cut across the front of my car, leaving just about zero time and space to brake and avoid. I know rear ending another motorist you are automatically at fault. T boning someone cutting across the front of your vehicle in heavy traffic at a 45% angle is all together different.

Edited October 24, 2012 by simple1

[NoshowJones]

Just need to regularly watch the News Clippings part of the Pattaya Forum to see how many accidents involve expats. Definite room for improvement

Dont be silly Farang drivers are much better than Thais,especially on motorbikes

Driving motorbikes and cars need a lot of common sense, and that's one thing the majority of Thais don't have, hence the 13000 road deaths every year.

[NoshowJones]

Yes, this place is totally lethal to a biker, i'm scared every second i drive,

primarily because of the car drivers, who don't hesitate to cross my lane

Westerners, Thai or both?

Like I said when it comes to common sense and driving, the Thais lose against the Westerner 99 times out of a hundred.

[NoshowJones]

I you were taking a guess, what proportion of westerners driving motorcycles in Thailand do you suspect of not have a motorcycle licence in their home country? Do you think that farangs driving motorcycles for the first time in Thailand is widespread? Generally I would say that many of the most experienced drivers in the UK are motorcyclists.

I you were taking a guess, what proportion of westerners driving motorcycles in Thailand do you suspect of not have a motorcycle licence in their home country? Do you think that farangs driving motorcycles for the first time in Thailand is widespread? Generally I would say that many of the most experienced drivers in the UK are motorcyclists.

I would say the biggest majority of them, and yes, it is widespread, but no, most experienced drivers in the UK, would not have motorbike licenses.

[OZEMADE]

Yes, this place is totally lethal to a biker, i'm scared every second i drive,

primarily because of the car drivers, who don't hesitate to cross my lane

Westerners, Thai or both?

Like I said when it comes to common sense and driving, the Thais lose against the Westerner 99 times out of a hundred.

These are people with a licence.

[ALFREDO]

I think the OP makes a number of valid points. My long time TGF is a polite and courteous lady but I still need to occasionally remind her we're never in need of hurrying when we travel on her motorbike.

You brave on the back seat. Why you not drive yourself. I would never let a woman drive a motorbike and I have to sit pillion. With my 130 kg also difficult!

With the car not different, only when I came together with Michelle Mouton.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mich%C3%A8le_Mouton

[NeverSure]

I you were taking a guess, what proportion of westerners driving motorcycles in Thailand do you suspect of not have a motorcycle licence in their home country? Do you think that farangs driving motorcycles for the first time in Thailand is widespread? Generally I would say that many of the most experienced drivers in the UK are motorcyclists.

I don't have a license for a motorbike back home but i got a Thai one does that count ?

Not really. The Thai training a requirements are a joke. Our laws changed a few years ago and I wasn't grandfathered. I had to take the class and the test again, and this time it was for real. There was one day of classroom, and one day of real riding first as training, ending in a riding test.

I had to go through a series of 12 cones, zigzagging through them, make a U turn and come back through them. If I hit one I failed. I had to get up to 25 mph and then brake to stop on a line while making a gentle turn through cones. They had to see by the attitude of the bike that I was doing at least 65% of my braking with my front tire.

Yep, when you brake with your back tire it will just skid. If you brake with the front, the front will dip, transferring weight and therefore traction onto the front tire. That's traction you'll never get with the rear. Ever wonder why back tires wear out first? Poor braking technique. My front tires wear out first.

Did you learn to countersteer which would some day save your life? Did you have to show that you were doing it through a set of cones? Did you have to demonstrate it at 40 mph on a fairly sharp curve through cones?

I didn't think so. No personal offense but the Thai system sucks. BTW I passed my test on the first try on my Harley Deuce while many of the guys who thought they were hot dogs failed on the class's Honda 250's. We had a choice - ride what you brought or ride the school's bikes. Most people thought the obstacle course would be easier on a 250 but they were wrong. A big bike is stable and will dance if ridden well.

Edited October 29, 2012 by NeverSure

[NeverSure]

Make a big Harley road bike dance.

Edited October 29, 2012 by NeverSure

[smedly]

"neversure" you're da-man lol

[NeverSure]

"neversure" you're da-man lol

We gee uh... I've live in LOS a total of 6 months and I never ONCE saw a single soul who knew how to ride a motorcycle. Those same principles apply to bicycles, scooters and big motorcycles.

[NeverSure]

OK, back to that police officer on the big Harley road bike. Two main things.

1. He's countersteering to initiate every turn, and holding that as long as needed.

2. To make those slow turns around and around cones in a tight circle, he's lightly riding the rear brake while giving it a little throttle and lightly slipping the clutch. That really stabilizes a bike. If he put a foot down once, he'd fail. That big Harley can dang near, and maybe, make a U turn in its own lane without ever putting a foot down.

Edited October 29, 2012 by NeverSure

[smedly]

"neversure" you're da-man lol

We gee uh... I've live in LOS a total of 6 months and I never ONCE saw a single soul who knew how to ride a motorcycle. Those same principles apply to bicycles, scooters and big motorcycles.

and what could possibly make you the authority on TV as to who could or couldn't ride a motorbike, I'm and advanced licence holder for cars and bikes in the UK and could never make a judgement on anyone as you have done unless I've been riding with them extensively........just saying

[poanoi]

Man that police was a really awesome driver

[smedly]

Yep, when you brake with your back tire it will just skid. If you brake with the front, the front will dip, transferring weight and therefore traction onto the front tire. That's traction you'll never get with the rear. Ever wonder why back tires wear out first? Poor braking technique. My front tires wear out first.

And the reason rear tyres wear out first is simply because that is were the power is delivered - why on earth are you posting such utter nonesense

Not trying to offend here mate but jesus if you're going to give advise opinions or facts here ......... make sure they're right

[NeverSure]

Yep, when you brake with your back tire it will just skid. If you brake with the front, the front will dip, transferring weight and therefore traction onto the front tire. That's traction you'll never get with the rear. Ever wonder why back tires wear out first? Poor braking technique. My front tires wear out first.

And the reason rear tyres wear out first is simply because that is were the power is delivered - why on earth are you posting such utter nonesense

Not trying to offend here mate but jesus if you're going to give advise opinions or facts here ......... make sure they're right

I am right. You don't have enough power to the rear wheels on scooter to do burn outs with the rear tire but you do have enough brake to imperceptibly and unknowingly scrub off a little rubber each time. Even a big bike usually doesn't spin the rear tire on starting, but does on braking.

UNLESS you use the front tire for at least 2/3 of the braking where the weight transfer puts the traction to the front tire and gets the best stopping transfer.

[NeverSure]

"neversure" you're da-man lol

We gee uh... I've live in LOS a total of 6 months and I never ONCE saw a single soul who knew how to ride a motorcycle. Those same principles apply to bicycles, scooters and big motorcycles.

and what could possibly make you the authority on TV as to who could or couldn't ride a motorbike, I'm and advanced licence holder for cars and bikes in the UK and could never make a judgement on anyone as you have done unless I've been riding with them extensively........just saying

Oh, about 30 years of racing Harleys, and competing on obstacle courses. About 15 years of being a certified instructor, and my signature on your riding test papers will get you a motorcycle endorsement in my state.

6 months of watching clueless riders in LOS.

That's it.

[NeverSure]

"neversure" you're da-man lol

We gee uh... I've live in LOS a total of 6 months and I never ONCE saw a single soul who knew how to ride a motorcycle. Those same principles apply to bicycles, scooters and big motorcycles.

and what could possibly make you the authority on TV as to who could or couldn't ride a motorbike, I'm and advanced licence holder for cars and bikes in the UK and could never make a judgement on anyone as you have done unless I've been riding with them extensively........just saying

Can you ride like that police officer on a big Harley? I can. I'm posting to back up my assertions about how it's done. Do you have anything to post to prove I'm wrong?

[smedly]

absolute rubbish, I go through 2x rears for one front on any bike I have ever owned, you don't need to spin the rear to create wear, every time you move the throttle the rear tyre will wear - plus the time spent actually using the brake is is very limited compared to throttle movements speeding up and slowing down, are you a troll or what - no more from me here

[NeverSure]

absolute rubbish, I go through 2x rears for one front on any bike I have ever owned, you don't need to spin the rear to create wear, every time you move the throttle the rear tyre will wear - plus the time spent actually using the brake is is very limited compared to throttle movements speeding up and slowing down, are you a troll or what - no more from me here

Ignorance is bliss. You go through more rear tires only because you don't realize that the only time you are scrubbing off rubber is when you brake, not when you start. You don't feel the scrubbing, it just happens. I can get 20,000 miles on the back tire of a Harley, but fewer than 10,000 miles on the front. Inexperienced and untrained riders get about 5,000 miles on the rear and 15,000 on the front.

They can't stop in as short a distance either, and would fail a riding test.

Edited October 29, 2012 by NeverSure

[NeverSure]

Does anyone want to learn something which could save his life someday, or do we just want to stick to old misconceptions?

If just one person learns something, and 1,000 flame me, I'll be happy to attend the funerals of the 1,000.

[smedly]

Does anyone want to learn something which could save his life someday, or do we just want to stick to old misconceptions?

If just one person learns something, and 1,000 flame me, I'll be happy to attend the funerals of the 1,000.

are you for real, your first missconception is calling a HD a motorbike, your biggest mistake is breathing, I've never in all my years of motoring heard such a complete pile of bullshite - go get help

you're obviously not a true biker as we never talk about funerals - you're close to my ignore button

Edited October 29, 2012 by smedly

[Rimmer]

Err thanks guys I have learnt some stuff here but can we stop now please before we get really cross with each other, Thanks

[NeverSure]

Does anyone want to learn something which could save his life someday, or do we just want to stick to old misconceptions?

If just one person learns something, and 1,000 flame me, I'll be happy to attend the funerals of the 1,000.

are you for real, your first missconception is calling a HD a motorbike, your biggest mistake is breathing, I've never in all my years of motoring heard such a complete pile of bullshite - go get help

you're obviously not a true biker as we never talk about funerals - you're close to my ignore button

In the US we call a Harley or any motorcycle a scooter or a scoot, as in "Nice scoot there." "Thanks." One of the first things I learned in mixing with UK, Aus., Canada, and Brits is that not all use the same words to describe something. Calling your Harley a scoot or a motorbike is friendly and tongue in cheek.

Put me on ignore. But if you put those videos on ignore, it's your funeral. If you can scoff at Jerry Paladino from Ride Like a Pro when he says in the video above to use your front tire for 70% of your braking, then you're asking to die.

If you can't see the scoot stop short where the rear tire lifts as a demonstration of how much braking you can get from a front wheel, it's your funeral.

If you can't see how countersteering causes a bike to literally jump in the opposite direction, then you'll never have the opportunity to make a rapid and positive S turn around a car which pulls out in front of you. You'll just T-Bone it while skidding your rear brake to no effect.

Post some videos or authoritative articles which prove I'm wrong.

It's your funeral.

[NeverSure]

Err thanks guys I have learnt some stuff here but can we stop now please before we get really cross with each other, Thanks

Sure. I didn't ignore you, I was typing while you posted this. Thanks for saying you learned something. I've taught countless people how to ride a motorcycle and it's always rewarding to have that one who is helped.

[Kaoboi Bebobp]

Ignorance is bliss. You go through more rear tires only because you don't realize that the only time you are scrubbing off rubber is when you brake, not when you start. You don't feel the scrubbing, it just happens. I can get 20,000 miles on the back tire of a Harley, but fewer than 10,000 miles on the front. Inexperienced and untrained riders get about 5,000 miles on the rear and 15,000 on the front.

They can't stop in as short a distance either, and would fail a riding test.

The above is correct: you generally wear out the fronts twice as fast as rears. The fronts constantly squirm from small steering inputs in a straight line, they must bear more of the load to initiate turns after braking, experience greater tire deformation over a small contact patch and, freqent braking moves the weight of the bike toward the front, causing a greater wear rate relative to the back. Same thing with cars. You rotate fronts to back diagonally, generally speaking -- if all four tires are the same size.

Edited October 29, 2012 by Kaoboi Bebobp