Arrogant Doctors

[Tolley]

I am in Perth this week so I decided to get some blood work done in my free time.

To get blood tests done in Oz you need to see a GP first.

So I ask the GP to test my testosterone levels.

He says why and I say because I want to see if what they are because low testosterone is a health danger.

He then proceeds to tell me that the tests mean nothing that there is no such thing as male menopause and adropause and it is all a scam to get money.

I said well there is a lot of research that says otherwise and I know myself that there were clear symptoms of male menopause for me eg. accummulation of fat around the sides and middle despite habits being the same for diet and exercise,irritable for no reason, lower sex drive and some minor but noticebable urination issues eg have to shake a lot after urination, get up in the middle of the night to pee etc

He then says dont come back to me if you want testosterone therapy because i dont do it. <deleted>

I think too many doctors have the God syndrome and expect patients to hang off anything that they say.

[robblok]

That is a reason why i like testing in thailand.

In the Netherlands they also dont like to do tests they don't think are needed.

They do this to keep healthcare affordable. In Thailand you can just pay for it.

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[Tolley]

That is a reason why i like testing in thailand.

In the Netherlands they also dont like to do tests they don't think are needed.

They do this to keep healthcare affordable. In Thailand you can just pay for it.

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I wonder why they have Testosterone testing if as this doctor says it doesnt mean anything. Silliest thing I have ever heard. The blood tests were free for me but the consultation was 75 dollars of which I can claim half back.

[johnnywishbone]

Usual dose 1ml testosterone cypionate per week (inj)

OR

1ml sustanon 250 per month.

Been doing it for years, with and without doctor.

Why pay $4000.00USD a month?

[robblok]

That is a reason why i like testing in thailand.

In the Netherlands they also dont like to do tests they don't think are needed.

They do this to keep healthcare affordable. In Thailand you can just pay for it.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect App

I wonder why they have Testosterone testing if as this doctor says it doesnt mean anything. Silliest thing I have ever heard. The blood tests were free for me but the consultation was 75 dollars of which I can claim half back.

It has impact why do you thibk people do Hrt and why bodybuilders use it.

I used it once a few years ago for 10 weeks with good result.

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[robblok]

Usual dose 1ml testosterone cypionate per week (inj)

OR

1ml sustanon 250 per month.

Been doing it for years, with and without doctor.

Why pay $4000.00USD a month?

That amount will send you over the range or at the top of the range. But yes i heard the same. Beginner bodybuilder dose is double of that but for a shorter period as this hrt is permanent. Anyway you can do blood tests yourself. Just watch the estrogen, better to take something for that too.

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[moe666]

The Dr. you saw was just uninformed as most are. When he went to school years ago probably had 4 hours of class time on male hormones, Yes, get your test done in Thailand and do your own rserach as well. You should have your PSA test done as well and DHT as you are having the signs of swelling prostate, you could get 1mlg. finesteride and take that for results

[robblok]

The Dr. you saw was just uninformed as most are. When he went to school years ago probably had 4 hours of class time on male hormones, Yes, get your test done in Thailand and do your own rserach as well. You should have your PSA test done as well and DHT as you are having the signs of swelling prostate, you could get 1mlg. finesteride and take that for results

Regular testing is always important if you add substances. Its important to look at estrogen readings. Just keep testing even if you don't change much its not expensive here.

I did expensive test for the thyroid in a hospital. They were much cheaper in the pattaya lab. Same with testosterone and other testing. I love the lab there and thank Tropo for bringing me there. They did good tests to see how my blood sugar levels were (not the fasted ones) but the ones covering a longer period.

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[tropo]

That is a reason why i like testing in thailand.

In the Netherlands they also dont like to do tests they don't think are needed.

They do this to keep healthcare affordable. In Thailand you can just pay for it.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect App

I wonder why they have Testosterone testing if as this doctor says it doesnt mean anything. Silliest thing I have ever heard. The blood tests were free for me but the consultation was 75 dollars of which I can claim half back.

I don't know why you didn't get it done in Pattaya. Testosterone (total) = 600 baht, Estradiol = 600 baht, Free testosterone = 1500 baht.

No questions, no arrogant doctors.

BTW, your urinary problem is a symptom of an enlarged prostrate. If you tell the doctor in Oz that he has another reason not to prescribe testosterone, or another reason to give you an ear bashing.

I have a friend who lives in Perth. He found a very good doctor who prescribes him testosterone without any 3rd degree bs. If you want the name of the doctor, PM me.

[tropo]

They did good tests to see how my blood sugar levels were (not the fasted ones) but the ones covering a longer period.

Yes, the HbA1c = 300 baht.

That's a great lab. All results emailed immediately. The owner will give you advice or help on interpreting results too ... and he speaks English well and is very sharp.

[tropo]

Usual dose 1ml testosterone cypionate per week (inj)

OR

1ml sustanon 250 per month.

Been doing it for years, with and without doctor.

Why pay $4000.00USD a month?

That amount will send you over the range or at the top of the range. But yes i heard the same. Beginner bodybuilder dose is double of that but for a shorter period as this hrt is permanent. Anyway you can do blood tests yourself. Just watch the estrogen, better to take something for that too.

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Actually 250mg of Testosterone (injectable) per month will hardly keep you in the middle range of normal. That's only 60mg per week - about the same as a young normal healthy male produces (taking into consideration the molecular weight of the ester attached to the testosterone molecule). Normal cypionate or Sustanon TRT runs at about 250mg per 3 weeks.

[Tolley]

That is a reason why i like testing in thailand.

In the Netherlands they also dont like to do tests they don't think are needed.

They do this to keep healthcare affordable. In Thailand you can just pay for it.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect App

I wonder why they have Testosterone testing if as this doctor says it doesnt mean anything. Silliest thing I have ever heard. The blood tests were free for me but the consultation was 75 dollars of which I can claim half back.

I don't know why you didn't get it done in Pattaya. Testosterone (total) = 600 baht, Estradiol = 600 baht, Free testosterone = 1500 baht.

No questions, no arrogant doctors.

BTW, your urinary problem is a symptom of an enlarged prostrate. If you tell the doctor in Oz that he has another reason not to prescribe testosterone, or another reason to give you an ear bashing.

I have a friend who lives in Perth. He found a very good doctor who prescribes him testosterone without any 3rd degree bs. If you want the name of the doctor, PM me.

Yeah I know I should have got it done in Pattaya just got lazy and never got around to it.

I have had the digital examination and they said there was no swelling and I have had the PSA which was 1.3 or something.

But I think most guys as they get older have an anlargement of some degree of the prostate. I think mine might be the benign prostatic one.

It will be interesting to see what the results are when they come through next week. Even if they are low I wont necessarily take any T supplementation until I have spent a lot of time researching the pros and cons.

Edited December 8, 2012 by Tolley

[robblok]

Usual dose 1ml testosterone cypionate per week (inj)

OR

1ml sustanon 250 per month.

Been doing it for years, with and without doctor.

Why pay $4000.00USD a month?

That amount will send you over the range or at the top of the range. But yes i heard the same. Beginner bodybuilder dose is double of that but for a shorter period as this hrt is permanent. Anyway you can do blood tests yourself. Just watch the estrogen, better to take something for that too.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect App

Actually 250mg of Testosterone (injectable) per month will hardly keep you in the middle range of normal. That's only 60mg per week - about the same as a young normal healthy male produces (taking into consideration the molecular weight of the ester attached to the testosterone molecule). Normal cypionate or Sustanon TRT runs at about 250mg per 3 weeks.

My mistake i was thinking weekly. Must have misread or had my mund somewhere else.

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[robblok]

That is a reason why i like testing in thailand.

In the Netherlands they also dont like to do tests they don't think are needed.

They do this to keep healthcare affordable. In Thailand you can just pay for it.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect App

I wonder why they have Testosterone testing if as this doctor says it doesnt mean anything. Silliest thing I have ever heard. The blood tests were free for me but the consultation was 75 dollars of which I can claim half back.

I don't know why you didn't get it done in Pattaya. Testosterone (total) = 600 baht, Estradiol = 600 baht, Free testosterone = 1500 baht.

No questions, no arrogant doctors.

BTW, your urinary problem is a symptom of an enlarged prostrate. If you tell the doctor in Oz that he has another reason not to prescribe testosterone, or another reason to give you an ear bashing.

I have a friend who lives in Perth. He found a very good doctor who prescribes him testosterone without any 3rd degree bs. If you want the name of the doctor, PM me.

Yeah I know I should have got it done in Pattaya just got lazy and never got around to it.

I have had the digital examination and they said there was no swelling and I have had the PSA which was 1.3 or something.

But I think most guys as they get older have an anlargement of some degree of the prostate. I think mine might be the benign prostatic one.

It will be interesting to see what the results are when they come through next week. Even if they are low I wont necessarily take any T supplementation until I have spent a lot of time researching the pros and cons.

Good point always know what you are getting into.

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[Tolley]

I got an email with the blood test results today.

The testosterone was 15.2 nmol/L (8.0-25.7). So I am not sure what that really means other than it falls midway in the range.

No more information than that was given.

[robblok]

I got an email with the blood test results today.

The testosterone was 15.2 nmol/L (8.0-25.7). So I am not sure what that really means other than it falls midway in the range.

No more information than that was given.

Wait for Tropo he is the best. But it looks like your in the middle of the range but not sure if the range is correcr

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[Tolley]

I got an email with the blood test results today.

The testosterone was 15.2 nmol/L (8.0-25.7). So I am not sure what that really means other than it falls midway in the range.

No more information than that was given.

Wait for Tropo he is the best. But it looks like your in the middle of the range but not sure if the range is correcr

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I wonder if the middle of the range is still in reality low?

Blood sugar was 4.8.

Also I noticed on the kidney function tests that creatine was right at the top of the range. Is this the result of gyming a lot or not?

Urea 6.4 mmol/L (3.5-8.5)

Creatinine 106 umol/L (60-110)

eGFR 63 (>60)

Sodium 137 mmol/L (135-145)

Potassium 3.7 mmol/L (3.5-5.5)

Chloride 99 mmol/L (95-110)

Bicarbonate 26 mmol/L (20-32)

[robblok]

I got an email with the blood test results today.

The testosterone was 15.2 nmol/L (8.0-25.7). So I am not sure what that really means other than it falls midway in the range.

No more information than that was given.

Wait for Tropo he is the best. But it looks like your in the middle of the range but not sure if the range is correcr

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect App

I wonder if the middle of the range is still in reality low?

Blood sugar was 4.8.

Also I noticed on the kidney function tests that creatine was right at the top of the range. Is this the result of gyming a lot or not?

Urea 6.4 mmol/L (3.5-8.5)

Creatinine 106 umol/L (60-110)

eGFR 63 (>60)

Sodium 137 mmol/L (135-145)

Potassium 3.7 mmol/L (3.5-5.5)

Chloride 99 mmol/L (95-110)

Bicarbonate 26 mmol/L (20-32)

I think in reality its not optimal. I wonder how my scores translate to that score you had. Where did you get the normal range from.

The creatine is from food not from the gym.

I hope Tropo comes around he really knows his stuff test wise.

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[robblok]

Just saw that levels from 9 to 38 are normal. So you are in the normal range but low. I think normal is far frim optimal.

Just do your research and if you feel the risks are worth it go for HRT if you do it yourself its real cheap. But keep on testing and take something against estrogen and maybe some HCG to keep your balls b normal size. Because injecting test will halt your own production.

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[tropo]

I got an email with the blood test results today.

The testosterone was 15.2 nmol/L (8.0-25.7). So I am not sure what that really means other than it falls midway in the range.

No more information than that was given.

That means you're perfectly normal as far as testosterone production goes. If you included an age factor, you're probably nearer the high end of normal.

You should get an estradial and a free testosterone test to get an idea of how much testosterone your converting to estradiol.

You're definitely not a candidate for TRT. I'd be looking at other ways to optimize testosterone.

[tropo]

Just saw that levels from 9 to 38 are normal. So you are in the normal range but low. I think normal is far frim optimal.

You should always go with the range the testing lab gives you.

[tropo]

I got an email with the blood test results today.

The testosterone was 15.2 nmol/L (8.0-25.7). So I am not sure what that really means other than it falls midway in the range.

No more information than that was given.

Wait for Tropo he is the best. But it looks like your in the middle of the range but not sure if the range is correcr

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect App

I wonder if the middle of the range is still in reality low?

Blood sugar was 4.8.

Also I noticed on the kidney function tests that creatine was right at the top of the range. Is this the result of gyming a lot or not?

Urea 6.4 mmol/L (3.5-8.5)

Creatinine 106 umol/L (60-110)

eGFR 63 (>60)

Sodium 137 mmol/L (135-145)

Potassium 3.7 mmol/L (3.5-5.5)

Chloride 99 mmol/L (95-110)

Bicarbonate 26 mmol/L (20-32)

I think in reality its not optimal. I wonder how my scores translate to that score you had. Where did you get the normal range from.

The creatine is from food not from the gym.

I hope Tropo comes around he really knows his stuff test wise.

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Don't get creatine and creatinine confused. High creatinine is a sign of kidney failure.

I'm surprised they didn't include BUN and uric acid in his kidney function tests.

Fasting blood sugar 4.8 = 86.4 mg/dl. That's perfect!

Edited December 10, 2012 by tropo

[TommoPhysicist]

You are within the normal levels for an 75-85 year old male.

Edited December 10, 2012 by TommoPhysicist

[Tolley]

Creatinine was at the upper end of the range but I had played squash the night before and i was a bit dehydrated so will check that one again in a few months.

Will eating red meat boost testosterone?

I basically dont eat pork, beef or lamb and havent done for more than 25 years. I wonder would it make a difference?

[TommoPhysicist]

Having a vasectomy will half you testosterone levels.

Tight undies in a hot climate can also reduce it.

You could try looser underwear for a bit of a boost.

Edited December 10, 2012 by TommoPhysicist

[tropo]

You are within the normal levels for an 75-85 year old male.

You have to go by the range given by the testing lab. He would not get a go ahead for TRT by any doctor.

It's really important to check estradiol and free testosterone. You may be able to increase your testosterone levels by quite a bit just by controlling the conversion of testosterone to estrogen.

Edited December 10, 2012 by tropo

[Tolley]

You are within the normal levels for an 75-85 year old male.

You have to go by the range given by the testing lab. He would not get a go ahead for TRT by any doctor.

It's really important to check estradiol and free testosterone. You may be able to increase your testosterone levels by quite a bit just by controlling the conversion of testosterone to estrogen.

Okay I will bite how do you control the conversion of T to E?

I think I am going to try and change my diet and eat read meat three times a week after reading that none meat eaters generally have lower T levels. It will be hard for me but I want to see if it makes any difference. Have you seen any organic or free range beef in Pattaya?

[tropo]

It's nothing to do with "biting". I'm not joking or trolling for attention.

Testosterone converts to estrogen by the enzyme aromatase. This is a major reason for a lower free testosterone, especially in older people.

Before you start looking for ways to reduce estrogen, why not have it tested?

[Tolley]

It's nothing to do with "biting". I'm not joking or trolling for attention.

Testosterone converts to estrogen by the enzyme aromatase. This is a major reason for a lower free testosterone, especially in older people.

Before you start looking for ways to reduce estrogen, why not have it tested?

I will get it tested but I think you misunderstood me when i said bite. You sort of left if hanging by not saying how you could do it.

Anyway I googled it and it seems i do some of the things anyway like eating broccoli, cabbage and cauliflower, doing resistance training but the hardest one is shifting some of the visceral fat. It is a bit of a catch 22. The visceral fat lowers the T but the reason you have the visceral fat is becauce of lower T.

[tropo]

I left you hanging on that one because the easy way is to take aromatase inhibiting drugs and I wanted you to investigate natural ways first and you don't even know if you have a problem yet.