Mains Voltage Surge Protection

[jpinx]

I reckon a spiky mains voltage is what did my LCD TV/monitor in. The powerboard has failed:(

Now I need to find a surge protector. Any advice from anyone? I am in SouthEast Bangkok. Places like Central BangNa, Sam Rong, HomePro BangPhli, Paradise, Seacon Square.....

tia

[RabC]

I would be surprised as most PSU these days are 110-250V and will handle just about anything. My TV stays running when the electricity single phases and most items shut down.

You can however find a stabiliser/UPS at just about any computer shop.

Edited December 20, 2012 by RabC

[fatfather]

I use an UPS, not to keep the TV on on battery supply, only to cut off peaks in the grid supply. Lost once one TV because of this, since I have the UPS between the grid and sensitive electronics no more issues.

Fatfather

Sent from my HTC Desire HD A9191 using Thaivisa Connect App

[Vinny1967]

Most modern plug boards have surge protection.

[jpinx]

I would be surprised as most PSU these days are 110-250V and will handle just about anything. My TV stays running when the electricity single phases and most items shut down.

You can however find a stabiliser/UPS at just about any computer shop.

I've seen it surge over 300 volts in a spike

[Satcommlee]

These surge protectors do not work unless you have a 3 wire mains supply with an Earth/Ground.

It is a waste of time buying them if your home/condo is not earthed.

[jpinx]

These surge protectors do not work unless you have a 3 wire mains supply with an Earth/Ground.

It is a waste of time buying them if your home/condo is not earthed.

I am guessing a home made earth might be enough -- maybe to the metal rail which has it's ends deeply embedded into the concrete on my balcony ?

[transam]

These surge protectors do not work unless you have a 3 wire mains supply with an Earth/Ground.

It is a waste of time buying them if your home/condo is not earthed.

I am guessing a home made earth might be enough -- maybe to the metal rail which has it's ends deeply embedded into the concrete on my balcony ?

[jpinx]

These surge protectors do not work unless you have a 3 wire mains supply with an Earth/Ground.

It is a waste of time buying them if your home/condo is not earthed.

I am guessing a home made earth might be enough -- maybe to the metal rail which has it's ends deeply embedded into the concrete on my balcony ?

Or I could use the metal conduit that carries the cables -- that goes back to the metal cage of the big mains box on the ground floor.

[jbrain]

These surge protectors do not work unless you have a 3 wire mains supply with an Earth/Ground.

It is a waste of time buying them if your home/condo is not earthed.

I am guessing a home made earth might be enough -- maybe to the metal rail which has it's ends deeply embedded into the concrete on my balcony ?

Or I could use the metal conduit that carries the cables -- that goes back to the metal cage of the big mains box on the ground floor.

I'm not sure, but I think you can use the door handles.

[chickenslegs]

I'm not sure, but I think you can use the door handles.

[ajarnpot]

most appiiances fitted to new houses have an earth cable, hanging down or curled up, but certainly not attached.

2 cents

[BlackPuddingBertha]

For me the answer is to use UPS devices. I have one protecting my PC, monitor, router and other peripherals, and one for my big TV. If I had a DVD player I would connect that to it also.

UPS devices are cheap and work well. Surge protectors are not good enough.

[jpinx]

For me the answer is to use UPS devices. I have one protecting my PC, monitor, router and other peripherals, and one for my big TV. If I had a DVD player I would connect that to it also.

UPS devices are cheap and work well. Surge protectors are not good enough.

I'm starting to think the same. Only downside is cost - - and yet another bit of "kit"

[Pib]

These surge protectors do not work unless you have a 3 wire mains supply with an Earth/Ground.

It is a waste of time buying them if your home/condo is not earthed.

Well, not totally a waste of time. If the spike comes in on the Hot line then the surge protector will suppress much of the spike to Neutral line which will be close to Earth potential (hopefully). And for man-made spikes/surges (i.e., elevator motors, A/Cs, welding devices, anything that draws a large startup current) the majority do ride on the Hot line. However, since spikes can occur in various line modes (Hot to Neutral, Hot to Earth, and Neutral to Earth) especially in lightning storms, it's best to have a surge suppressor which can suppress in all three modes for a single phase power source which most people have.

And when I say spikes/surges I'm talking those which are milliseconds in duration which are at least around 75-100 volts higher than normal line voltage (but usually much more than 100 volts higher); not extended duration power surges where the voltage stays at a high level for several seconds or more---that kinda of extended power surge can smoke a surge suppressor. Surge suppressors are designed to deal with very short duration surges/spikes.

[jpinx]

These surge protectors do not work unless you have a 3 wire mains supply with an Earth/Ground.

It is a waste of time buying them if your home/condo is not earthed.

Well, not totally a waste of time. If the spike comes in on the Hot line then the surge protector will suppress much of the spike to Neutral line which will be close to Earth potential (hopefully). And for man-made spikes/surges (i.e., elevator motors, A/Cs, welding devices, anything that draws a large startup current) the majority do ride on the Hot line. However, since spikes can occur in various line modes (Hot to Neutral, Hot to Earth, and Neutral to Earth) especially in lightning storms, it's best to have a surge suppressor which can suppress in all three modes for a single phase power source which most people have.

And when I say spikes/surges I'm talking those which are milliseconds in duration which are at least around 75-100 volts higher than normal line voltage (but usually much more than 100 volts higher); not extended duration power surges where the voltage stays at a high level for several seconds or more---that kinda of extended power surge can smoke a surge suppressor. Surge suppressors are designed to deal with very short duration surges/spikes.

Agreed - hence my thinking about a UPS. I'll go and investigate next time I'm near a Phanthip Plaza...

[ETatBKK]

These surge protectors do not work unless you have a 3 wire mains supply with an Earth/Ground.

It is a waste of time buying them if your home/condo is not earthed.

Well, not totally a waste of time. If the spike comes in on the Hot line then the surge protector will suppress much of the spike to Neutral line which will be close to Earth potential (hopefully). And for man-made spikes/surges (i.e., elevator motors, A/Cs, welding devices, anything that draws a large startup current) the majority do ride on the Hot line. However, since spikes can occur in various line modes (Hot to Neutral, Hot to Earth, and Neutral to Earth) especially in lightning storms, it's best to have a surge suppressor which can suppress in all three modes for a single phase power source which most people have.

And when I say spikes/surges I'm talking those which are milliseconds in duration which are at least around 75-100 volts higher than normal line voltage (but usually much more than 100 volts higher); not extended duration power surges where the voltage stays at a high level for several seconds or more---that kinda of extended power surge can smoke a surge suppressor. Surge suppressors are designed to deal with very short duration surges/spikes.

AGREED - UPS is the only choice for isolating the electronics from many many spikes from the grid, especially here.

once dismantled a 'surge protected' power bar, so primitive that I never plug in my computer equipment into it again.

[JakeBKK]

You can get lightning/surge protectors for you breaker box. They are around 50k. I may seem pricey, but the protect all your appliances in the house. Additionally you have to protect your adsl/phone-line. I have seen many cases where the lightning struck phonelines and killed everything from modem / router / switch / network ports and so on.

[BlackPuddingBertha]

I have seen many cases where the lightning struck phonelines and killed everything from modem / router / switch / network ports and so on.

Indeed. Another advantage of "fibre to the home" broadband, if you can get it.

[JakeBKK]

These surge protectors do not work unless you have a 3 wire mains supply with an Earth/Ground.

It is a waste of time buying them if your home/condo is not earthed.

Well, not totally a waste of time. If the spike comes in on the Hot line then the surge protector will suppress much of the spike to Neutral line which will be close to Earth potential (hopefully). And for man-made spikes/surges (i.e., elevator motors, A/Cs, welding devices, anything that draws a large startup current) the majority do ride on the Hot line. However, since spikes can occur in various line modes (Hot to Neutral, Hot to Earth, and Neutral to Earth) especially in lightning storms, it's best to have a surge suppressor which can suppress in all three modes for a single phase power source which most people have.

And when I say spikes/surges I'm talking those which are milliseconds in duration which are at least around 75-100 volts higher than normal line voltage (but usually much more than 100 volts higher); not extended duration power surges where the voltage stays at a high level for several seconds or more---that kinda of extended power surge can smoke a surge suppressor. Surge suppressors are designed to deal with very short duration surges/spikes.

AGREED - UPS is the only choice for isolating the electronics from many many spikes from the grid, especially here.

once dismantled a 'surge protected' power bar, so primitive that I never plug in my computer equipment into it again.

I'll guess you have to spend more than 150 THB Otherwise you are looking at an old-school fuse. You can build something like than with a SOC, so why make things more complicated than necessary . And they work without ground

Edited December 21, 2012 by JakeBKK

[JakeBKK]

I have seen many cases where the lightning struck phonelines and killed everything from modem / router / switch / network ports and so on.

Indeed. Another advantage of "fibre to the home" broadband, if you can get it.

Looking forward to 100 MB at my place in 3 months time. Spoke with 3BB yesterday. I will opt for 50 MB down at 150 $ a month

Edited December 21, 2012 by JakeBKK

[IMHO]

If the device(s) you're looking to protect are expensive enough, or your power supply is shaky enough to warrant it, my suggestion would be a fully regulated AC supply - i.e. one that will maintain a solid 220VAC regardless of input voltage, while also offering full surge protection.

Magnet Audio have a 500W ones that are plenty for even the most power-hungry 65" plasma screens for 7K Baht: http://www.magnetaudio.com/index.php?view=product&p=24&c=12 and have various models all the way up to 2000W ones pitched at audiophiles for 60K Baht: http://www.magnetaudio.com/index.php?view=product&p=545&c=12

[westom]

Agreed - hence my thinking about a UPS. I'll go and investigate next time I'm near a Phanthip Plaza...

Investigation means you have numbers that claim protection. If a UPS (which is a power supply) does that protection, then the superior supply already inside every electronic device does that protection better. If a surge blew through an appliance power supply, then if easy blows through a UPS. View its spec numbers.

Most recommend a UPS because hearsay recommended it. An informed recommendation always includes numbers that say why at UPS solves an anomaly. And by how much. View its specification numbers. A destructuve surge is hundreds of thousands of joules. How many joules does that UPS claim to absorb? Hundreds? Near zero protection is sufficient to convince a majority that it does 100% protection. A majority that ignores spec numbers are that easily deceived.

You believe you had a 300 volt spike. Electronics have long been required to withstand a constant 265 volts. And spikes that exceed 500 volts. Those were standards 40 years ago. Todays standards are even higher.

More numbers. Any 240 volt surge protector does nothing - remains inert - until voltage well exceeds 500 volts. No problem. Because electronics have long been so robust as to withstand 500 volt surges.

You know a surge did damage because ... you had damage? A surge means a list of damaged appliances can be provided. A list that would also define where the best solution is located. You may want to ask about the well proven solution. Meanwhile, dimmer switches, smoke detectors, kitchen appliances and other less robust devices are also damaged if you had a surge. Most failures are manufacturing defects - not surges. But due to advertising, most immediately "assume" damage means a surge. Advertising wants everyone to assume rather than learn.

Long ago, electrolytic capactors in mass numbers were failing many years later. Was that also a surge? Of course not. Manufacturing defects explain failures even years later. To say more requires identifying the internal part that has failed. But statistically, most failures are manufacturing defects. All appliances must withstand well over 300 volt surges without damage. A standard that has existed long before TVs were fully transistorized..

Edited December 22, 2012 by westom

[ksamuiguy]

Down load the following PDF file http://surgelogic.com/documents/brochures/Residential_CT_6671CT9701Rev0812.pdf , go to page 11 the surge supressors listed here are very good and will protect your whole house.

Single phas you need 1

3 phase you need 3

You will need 2 spare pole spaces in your breaker panel for each device. If you don't have the spare spaces there is a adapter which allows for external mounting.

We have installed these devices on over 60 locations and with the exception of a location have had no problems with large spikes or surges.

The exception was a surge that originated inside the houses electrical system.

They are designed to take care of large surges, the ones that blow everything up.

They are fairly easy to install, but I suggest a Qualified Electrician do the job, and that he follows the installation instructions EXACTLY.

Nothing will protect agianst a close direct lightning strike, but this device will take care of 99%.

Read and follow the instructions carefully.

You can download a excellent PDF document that is very informative http://surgelogic.com/documents/brochures/Residential_CT_6671CT9701Rev0812.pdf

Look at page 11 , these are the devices we use on a regular basis, and they are readably avaliable here in Thailand.

The PDF download is very informative and has wiring diagrams also.

For sensitive devices I still suggest a good UPS with a surge suppressor we use APC http://www.apcth.com/ agian never a problem.

If you have a adsl or dail up internet connection, we find that most of the computer that fail are due to the voltage surge comming in on the telephone line (conductive coupling of a electrical surge dur to the phone line being in close proximity to an electrical wire)

The UPS's have a surge supressor built in to protect agianst most of the phone line voltage spikes, UES IT! Read the manual and be sure to install the phone jacks in the proper place.

Remember "Safety is NO Accident"

[ETatBKK]

it seems to be a very popular discussed subject in Thaivisa.com ! there are plenty of information and opinions in the DIY forum

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/forum/124-do-it-yourself-housing-forum/

spot on discussions from Crossy . . .

whatever it is, this is a safety measure and a protective preparation, per individual's attitude of taking risk !

[bobl]

If you're happy with the placebo effect, go ahead and buy a cheap ups as many posters have advised.

But if you want proper protection, you must buy an ONLINE UPS. These are not cheap like their 'line interactive' brethern but they're the only ones that truly protect you from dirty input power. The cheap, line-interactive UPS's ("with built-in surge protection"), their surge protection is no better (probably worse) than the surge protection already in your tv's power supply.

Also, if you want surge protection to work at all, you will need to earth your setup.

Another alternative if for some reason you can't get a good earth is a simple 1:1 line isolating transformer.

[jpinx]

If you're happy with the placebo effect, go ahead and buy a cheap ups as many posters have advised.

But if you want proper protection, you must buy an ONLINE UPS. These are not cheap like their 'line interactive' brethern but they're the only ones that truly protect you from dirty input power. The cheap, line-interactive UPS's ("with built-in surge protection"), their surge protection is no better (probably worse) than the surge protection already in your tv's power supply.

Also, if you want surge protection to work at all, you will need to earth your setup.

Another alternative if for some reason you can't get a good earth is a simple 1:1 line isolating transformer.

ok I'll bite -- What's one of those?

[Pib]

If you're happy with the placebo effect, go ahead and buy a cheap ups as many posters have advised.

But if you want proper protection, you must buy an ONLINE UPS. These are not cheap like their 'line interactive' brethern but they're the only ones that truly protect you from dirty input power. The cheap, line-interactive UPS's ("with built-in surge protection"), their surge protection is no better (probably worse) than the surge protection already in your tv's power supply.

Also, if you want surge protection to work at all, you will need to earth your setup.

Another alternative if for some reason you can't get a good earth is a simple 1:1 line isolating transformer.

ok I'll bite -- What's one of those?

And isolation transformer can help stop/reduce some noise and transient voltage, but it's not a common/popular method voltage surge/spike protection method for home use. See this Link which provides a 2 page article explaining/comparing Surge Protection Devices and Isolation Transformers.

[jpinx]

If you're happy with the placebo effect, go ahead and buy a cheap ups as many posters have advised.

But if you want proper protection, you must buy an ONLINE UPS. These are not cheap like their 'line interactive' brethern but they're the only ones that truly protect you from dirty input power. The cheap, line-interactive UPS's ("with built-in surge protection"), their surge protection is no better (probably worse) than the surge protection already in your tv's power supply.

Also, if you want surge protection to work at all, you will need to earth your setup.

Another alternative if for some reason you can't get a good earth is a simple 1:1 line isolating transformer.

ok I'll bite -- What's one of those?

And isolation transformer can help stop/reduce some noise and transient voltage, but it's not a common/popular method voltage surge/spike protection method for home use. See this Link which provides a 2 page article explaining/comparing Surge Protection Devices and Isolation Transformers.

Hmm - thanks for the link - says it needs an earth

[IMHO]

If you're happy with the placebo effect, go ahead and buy a cheap ups as many posters have advised.

But if you want proper protection, you must buy an ONLINE UPS. These are not cheap like their 'line interactive' brethern but they're the only ones that truly protect you from dirty input power. The cheap, line-interactive UPS's ("with built-in surge protection"), their surge protection is no better (probably worse) than the surge protection already in your tv's power supply.

Also, if you want surge protection to work at all, you will need to earth your setup.

Another alternative if for some reason you can't get a good earth is a simple 1:1 line isolating transformer.

ok I'll bite -- What's one of those?

I believe bobl is talkign about something similar to what I use, but also including battery backup - though we're not talking about PC's that need to safely shutdown here so I fail to see the point in a UPS that will run your TV & stereo gear for an extra few minutes during a blackout..

A device that fully isolates the incoming supply from the socket is the only one I'd connect my gear to - most consumer grade UPS's dont' do this - they simply provide a rudimentary 220VAC failover that will give you a few minutes to safely shutdown your computer in the event of a black/brown out.