Dozens Of Countries Aided U S Secret Detentions: Report

[webfact]

Dozens of Countries Aided US Secret Detentions: Report

WASHINGTON, February 6 (RIA Novosti) – As many as 54 governments throughout the world assisted the United States in its secret detention and rendition operations in the aftermath of the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, according to a new human rights report released Tuesday.

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The report, released by the New York-based nonprofit advocacy group Open Society Justice Initiative, accuses the United States of engaging in torture and other abuses linked to these operations, and thereby violating domestic and international law and “diminishing its moral standing and eroding support for its counterterrorism efforts worldwide.”

The dozens of governments that participated in this program also “violated domestic and international laws and further undermined the norm against torture,” according to the report, titled “Globalizing Torture: CIA Secret Detention and Extraordinary Rendition.”

Full story: http://en.rian.ru/wo.../179247727.html

-- RIA NOVOSTI 2013-02-06

[IMA_FARANG]

Yes, that's undoubtably true .... and you would be astounded at any list of the so-called "democracies" that made a choice to at least discretely become involved in such things.

Don't be niave ... every country and it's government always has to mke unpleasent real world choices when trying to balance their relations with othe countries they know don't quite meet their democratic ideals and the real world business and economic relalities involved.

For example, China and the U.S.

China's human rights record is not what the U.S. would like .... but the world wide Economic power of China is simply to strong to ignore Chinese wishes.

That means that in a real workd scenario certain "concessions" to Chinese wishes will be made regaurding Chinese 'dissadents" even by the U.S.

It works the same way with the U.S. and other governments.

It always has and always will.

Every government must finda real world solution to balancing the needs of their citizens and the desires of those other countries wishes, Even if that means doing things they would rather not do.

If you don't see this you're being hoplessly niave in the real world,

[F430murci]

I have no idea as to the necessity of this, but it did make me sick that Bush's lapse resulted in our 4th amendment being eroded and that many were tortured and treated such a way all because junior messed up. Seems like everyone is and will be paying the price for junior's reign for many years or worse.

[Felipesed]

Who exactly are "Open Society Justice Initiative"?

Who elected them, or are they self-chosen?

Why do they think they have the right to lecture and pontificate about the correct methods of capturing terrorists who murdered thousands of people?

Although I am not a U.S. citizen, I believe the U.S. government had the right and duty to destroy the people responsible, and organisation behind them, by any means possible. If that includes torture, then so what? It would not have been worse than what the people in the Twin Towers and the airplanes suffered.

If other governments had the courage to act as the U.S. did, then this scourge of Islamic terrorism could be contained and reduced much more effectively. Thailand take note of what is happening in the southern provinces!

[beechguy]

I have no idea as to the necessity of this, but it did make me sick that Bush's lapse resulted in our 4th amendment being eroded and that many were tortured and treated such a way all because junior messed up. Seems like everyone is and will be paying the price for junior's reign for many years or worse.

The first part of your comment says it all. I didn't realize the 4th had anything to do with a Saudi, Yemeni, etc. picked up in Afghanistan, etc. but do carry on.

[chuckd]

What does the 4th Amendment have to do with enemy combatants captured on a foreign battlefield?

[F430murci]

I have no idea as to the necessity of this, but it did make me sick that Bush's lapse resulted in our 4th amendment being eroded and that many were tortured and treated such a way all because junior messed up. Seems like everyone is and will be paying the price for junior's reign for many years or worse.

The first part of your comment says it all. I didn't realize the 4th had anything to do with a Saudi, Yemeni, etc. picked up in Afghanistan, etc. but do carry on.

This all stems from 911. Not real difficult logical leaps here guys. 911 resulted in junior going crazy to cover tracks and make sure it not happen again. Bush passes Patriot Act and used fear, axis of evil crap to completely erode 4th amendment. Wire taps . . . Expectations of privacy gone . . . Axis of evil, evil thugs . . . Torture and hold people in solitary indefinitely . . . More good ole boy Patriot Act type stuff all stemming from 911.

Edited February 6, 2013 by F430murci

[F430murci]

I was really come on here to if anything about Tsunami.

And yes Chuck, I spend about 30 to 45 days a year in SE Asia. My wife meets her family from Russia in Phuket or Koh Samui. I usually jump back and forth to Bali for surfing though as I cannot understand a dam_n thing they are saying anyhow.

[beechguy]

I have no idea as to the necessity of this, but it did make me sick that Bush's lapse resulted in our 4th amendment being eroded and that many were tortured and treated such a way all because junior messed up. Seems like everyone is and will be paying the price for junior's reign for many years or worse.

The first part of your comment says it all. I didn't realize the 4th had anything to do with a Saudi, Yemeni, etc. picked up in Afghanistan, etc. but do carry on.

This all stems from 911. Not real difficult logical leaps here guys. 911 resulted in junior going crazy to cover tracks and make sure it not happen again. Bush passes Patriot Act and used fear, axis of evil crap to completely erode 4th amendment. Wire taps . . . Expectations of privacy gone . . . Axis of evil, evil thugs . . . Torture and hold people in solitary indefinitely . . . More good ole boy Patriot Act type stuff all stemming from 911.

Well the article is apparently from a Russian publication, so I guess if anybody knows about illegal detentions, those guys would. As to Bush, he did all of that? I was under the impression that Congress passed legislation, unlike the current president that just uses executive orders.

Edited February 6, 2013 by beechguy

[chuckd]

I have no idea as to the necessity of this, but it did make me sick that Bush's lapse resulted in our 4th amendment being eroded and that many were tortured and treated such a way all because junior messed up. Seems like everyone is and will be paying the price for junior's reign for many years or worse.

The first part of your comment says it all. I didn't realize the 4th had anything to do with a Saudi, Yemeni, etc. picked up in Afghanistan, etc. but do carry on.

This all stems from 911. Not real difficult logical leaps here guys. 911 resulted in junior going crazy to cover tracks and make sure it not happen again. Bush passes Patriot Act and used fear, axis of evil crap to completely erode 4th amendment. Wire taps . . . Expectations of privacy gone . . . Axis of evil, evil thugs . . . Torture and hold people in solitary indefinitely . . . More good ole boy Patriot Act type stuff all stemming from 911.

Thanks for the explanation about your interest in Thailand.

Now, back on topic, what does the 4th Amendment have to do with the alleged renditions performed on enemy combatants captured on foreign battlefields.

As far as the Patriot Act is concerned, can you now explain what action the Obama Administration has taken to remove the allegedly egregious actions taken by Congress and signed by Bush?

[trompelemonde]

Who exactly are "Open Society Justice Initiative"?

Who elected them, or are they self-chosen?

Why do they think they have the right to lecture and pontificate about the correct methods of capturing terrorists who murdered thousands of people?

Although I am not a U.S. citizen, I believe the U.S. government had the right and duty to destroy the people responsible, and organisation behind them, by any means possible. If that includes torture, then so what? It would not have been worse than what the people in the Twin Towers and the airplanes suffered.

If other governments had the courage to act as the U.S. did, then this scourge of Islamic terrorism could be contained and reduced much more effectively. Thailand take note of what is happening in the southern provinces!

If you believe that the US Government "had the right and duty to destroy the people responsible" then why didn't they attack Saudi Arabia first instead of Iraq and Afghanistan?

[JLCrab]

Who exactly is Open Society.? Founded by George Soros.

Read it here: http://www.opensocietyfoundations.org/projects/globalizing-torture

[Felipesed]

Who exactly is Open Society.? Founded by George Soros.

Read it here: http://www.opensocie...alizing-torture

Thanks for the link.

Read it with dismay, and the Bios of its staff. Very depressing.

At least Mr Soros is not doing anything useful with his billions, that he was happy to "earn" in the U.S.

He could be funding clean water projects, cataract reduction programs, malaria control programs, birth control programs, but no, he wants to bite the hand that fed him and promote anti-western propaganda, and encourage terrorism.

It is time the U.S government considered such people guilty of treasonable behavior, and "discouraged" them.

[Scott]

Who exactly are "Open Society Justice Initiative"?

Who elected them, or are they self-chosen?

Why do they think they have the right to lecture and pontificate about the correct methods of capturing terrorists who murdered thousands of people?

Although I am not a U.S. citizen, I believe the U.S. government had the right and duty to destroy the people responsible, and organisation behind them, by any means possible. If that includes torture, then so what? It would not have been worse than what the people in the Twin Towers and the airplanes suffered.

If other governments had the courage to act as the U.S. did, then this scourge of Islamic terrorism could be contained and reduced much more effectively. Thailand take note of what is happening in the southern provinces!

It seems like other governments were complicit in this so I would say they had the courage to act. Some posters might have an adjective other than courage, however.

[F430murci]

I have no idea as to the necessity of this, but it did make me sick that Bush's lapse resulted in our 4th amendment being eroded and that many were tortured and treated such a way all because junior messed up. Seems like everyone is and will be paying the price for junior's reign for many years or worse.

The first part of your comment says it all. I didn't realize the 4th had anything to do with a Saudi, Yemeni, etc. picked up in Afghanistan, etc. but do carry on.

This all stems from 911. Not real difficult logical leaps here guys. 911 resulted in junior going crazy to cover tracks and make sure it not happen again. Bush passes Patriot Act and used fear, axis of evil crap to completely erode 4th amendment. Wire taps . . . Expectations of privacy gone . . . Axis of evil, evil thugs . . . Torture and hold people in solitary indefinitely . . . More good ole boy Patriot Act type stuff all stemming from 911.

Thanks for the explanation about your interest in Thailand.

Now, back on topic, what does the 4th Amendment have to do with the alleged renditions performed on enemy combatants captured on foreign battlefields.

As far as the Patriot Act is concerned, can you now explain what action the Obama Administration has taken to remove the allegedly egregious actions taken by Congress and signed by Bush?

Yeah, Obama extended something like 3 clauses. Real damage started being done in 2004 when extended to suspected drug dealer, not terrorist, by placing gps on car without warrant and courts subsequently started upholding searches that violated 4th based on Patriot Act.

Seriously, I am sorry about going off topic. I scanned this in between sets at gym earlier and thought they were condemning US actions on our soil also and etc. Still have not read closely so I will defer to you guys and go to bed. I think anyone that tortures and places people in solitary and tries to drive peope mad suck whether Democrat or Republican.

[JLCrab]

I provided the Open Society link as I am familiar with their work on another of the listed 'Issues' on their website. I do not necessarily agree with them there, either. One, however, has to be careful in criticizing Mr. Soros and his motives as they may be understandable from one who as a young boy experienced the occupation of Hungary during WW II.

Edited February 6, 2013 by JLCrab

[Swiss1960]

Although I am not a U.S. citizen, I believe the U.S. government had the right and duty to destroy the people responsible, and organisation behind them, by any means possible. If that includes torture, then so what? It would not have been worse than what the people in the Twin Towers and the airplanes suffered.

In theory, I could agree... however, the reality is that there were a lot of people who were arrested and tortured, only because they were at the wrong place at the wrong time... you can read the stories of all the guys who were released from Guantanamo without ever been proven guilty of anything... the problem with your statement is therefore, that innocent people have been tortured, when the US government did enforce their "right"...

[Gary A]

Since most bleeding hearts are insulated from extremists, they have no idea What these fanatics do to normal people who are unfortunate enough to be taken by these barbarians. If it were one of your immediate family in harms way, I think you would have a different view of this "torture" of captured fanatics. I'm only aware of one group group who hacks people's heads off with dull knives.

[Asiantravel]

Who exactly are "Open Society Justice Initiative"?

Who elected them, or are they self-chosen?

Why do they think they have the right to lecture and pontificate about the correct methods of capturing terrorists who murdered thousands of people?

Although I am not a U.S. citizen, I believe the U.S. government had the right and duty to destroy the people responsible, and organisation behind them, by any means possible. If that includes torture, then so what? It would not have been worse than what the people in the Twin Towers and the airplanes suffered.

If other governments had the courage to act as the U.S. did, then this scourge of Islamic terrorism could be contained and reduced much more effectively. Thailand take note of what is happening in the southern provinces!

But then, next minute USA is arming Al Qaeda in Syria? If they were sufficiently bad enemies to have warranted all these secret detentions, why do they now deserve, sophisticated US weaponry?

[Lancelot]

"Since the CIA didn't come into existence until 1947, perhaps they really didn't have anything to do with those little incidents."

There you go, letting the facts interfere with a good tale

[BradinAsia]

"Although I am not a U.S. citizen, I believe the U.S. government had the right and duty to destroy the people responsible, and organisation behind them, by any means possible."

According to this rationale, every time the U.S. has a national crisis, it is okay to just suspend the constitution and ignore international law. All my life my government, the media and the school systems have taught us that America are the good guys. That America is a country of law, order and justice. But then I learned that after the Pearl Harbor attack tens of thousands of U.S. citizens of Japanese ancestry were put into concentration camps even though the War Dept had already decided there was no military necessity for it. [Google: Fred Korematsu].

Then after 9/ll, our police state zealots arrested thousands of law-abiding U.S. residents based on their ethnicity or nationality. Overseas it was much worse. The CIA offered cash rewards for Pakistan and other governments to turn over anyone suspected of being involved with "terrorism." This lead to rampant corruption and many innocent people were "sold" to the CIA. Over the last 12 years, thousands of innocent people have had their lives turned upside down and many were imprisoned and tortured.

To say this behavior of the U.S. government is justified -- is to say that governments only need to follow the law when convenient, governments only need to respect human rights when it's convenient.

Some folks may be satisfied to live in such a society, but I am not.

[BradinAsia]

I have no idea as to the necessity of this, but it did make me sick that Bush's lapse resulted in our 4th amendment being eroded and that many were tortured and treated such a way all because junior messed up. Seems like everyone is and will be paying the price for junior's reign for many years or worse.

The first part of your comment says it all. I didn't realize the 4th had anything to do with a Saudi, Yemeni, etc. picked up in Afghanistan, etc. but do carry on.

This all stems from 911. Not real difficult logical leaps here guys. 911 resulted in junior going crazy to cover tracks and make sure it not happen again. Bush passes Patriot Act and used fear, axis of evil crap to completely erode 4th amendment. Wire taps . . . Expectations of privacy gone . . . Axis of evil, evil thugs . . . Torture and hold people in solitary indefinitely . . . More good ole boy Patriot Act type stuff all stemming from 911.

Well the article is apparently from a Russian publication, so I guess if anybody knows about illegal detentions, those guys would. As to Bush, he did all of that? I was under the impression that Congress passed legislation, unlike the current president that just uses executive orders.

Making such remarks about Russia is very popular nowadays, but one simple fact we must not forget. For some years the U.S. has had the highest incarceration rate on the planet. Higher than the USSR ever had, higher than Russia now, higher than China, higher than Iran.

[Jingthing]

Making such remarks about Russia is very popular nowadays, but one simple fact we must not forget. For some years the U.S. has had the highest incarceration rate on the planet. Higher than the USSR ever had, higher than Russia now, higher than China, higher than Iran.

Perhaps, but the source here is 100 percent owned by the government of Russia. Most people would consider full government ownership a relevant fact when considering a source.

[Scott]

Some off-topic posts and replies have been deleted.

Please stay on the topic.

[simple1]

Regards those who support torture as a policy by Western governments really need to think again. How can any country hold its head up high with such policy. This policy dragged the reputation of the US into the same putrid slime of their enemies. In places such as Iraq and Afghanistan the policy truly blew back. Contributed to ever increasing alienation of the local citizens and allegedly the tempo of violence/terrorism against Western personnel and their local supporters. As others have noted rendition and torture was also used against many innocents who were set up to settle local disputes or for monetary gain.

@asiantravel: The US was not consciously arming the Al Qaeda affiliate (abhat al-Nusra) in Syria (usual lack of on the ground intelligence). US is funding & supplying arms through their Sunni friends in places like Saudi Arabia & Qatar to the Syrian Free Army as an attempt to control the Shiite dictatorship and influence Sunni dictatorships in a regional power play. Now the US is aware that abhat al-Nusra is an Al Qaeda affiliate they have blacklisted them - a bit too late as abhat al-Nusra are recognised as most effective fighting force in Syria with an estimated 5,000 members.

Edited February 6, 2013 by simple1

[Credo]

An interesting thread. It's about the countries that aided in the detention and rendition, but hey, let's not look at any of those countries. Better just stick to US bashing.

[Credo]

There are some surprises on this list. More than a few that one wouldn't expect to be on the list. I wonder why?

Australia, Austria, Belgium, Canada, Denmark, Finland, Germany, Greece, Iceland, Iran, Ireland, Italy, Spain, Sweden, , Thailand, United Kingdom, Zimbabwe (The US should send Zimbabwe a check, they are a little short of cash this month). .

[HeijoshinCool]

Who exactly are "Open Society Justice Initiative"?

Who elected them, or are they self-chosen?

Why do they think they have the right to lecture and pontificate about the correct methods of capturing terrorists who murdered thousands of people?

Although I am not a U.S. citizen, I believe the U.S. government had the right and duty to destroy the people responsible, and organisation behind them, by any means possible. If that includes torture, then so what? It would not have been worse than what the people in the Twin Towers and the airplanes suffered.

If other governments had the courage to act as the U.S. did, then this scourge of Islamic terrorism could be contained and reduced much more effectively. Thailand take note of what is happening in the southern provinces!

If you believe that the US Government "had the right and duty to destroy the people responsible" then why didn't they attack Saudi Arabia first instead of Iraq and Afghanistan?

Or Dick Cheney?

[FDog]

And people wonder why the US govt is so hated.

They did also take innocent people with their renditions. Italy currently has warrants out for some US operatives who kidnapped a guy from the streets in Italy for rendition. It is ridiculous to say that those subject to rendition and torture were only terrorists. An Australian was tortured and has been paid compensation because it was a mistake.

Most of the prisoners in Guantanamo have never been charged with anything. So to say that they are terrorists is just a complete lie because they actually don't know. Just round em up and torture them to see who they actually have.

If all this was for the good of the people then why did the govt's complicit in this want it all kept secret? I remember it became public that the UK allowed a plane transporting one of those poor guys subject to rendition to use it's airspace. Of course the govt would have known but only when it became public knowledge and the uproar of it did the UK govt then pretend to throw a hissy fit.

I have no doubt my own oz govt was complicit as we just bend over and take it up the ass for the US. Every time they ask us for help we jump. Though I would hope after the lies of GWB and the fact that these things are now becoming public that they will be a bit more cautious next time.

I'm sure there are those that will simply not believe there was torture, even though GWB admitted he gave such orders. Who cares where the report comes from, comment on the report instead of the people who did it.

Does anyone actually believe this didn't go on?

[Pakboong]

I am a bit surprised that people actually think all of this started after 9/11.