Hand To Mouth.........

[David48]

bleater completely lost me when he said he 'claims it back from my companies'.

Personal expenses should be exactly that - personal expenses. Using big alcohol bills as a tax dodge went out sometime in the early 90s here in Oz ...

Firstly 'bleater' is not particularly fair as his name is theblether ...

As for 'claiming' personal expenses, now you are stretching your post further ... you know nothing of his situation.

If he were in the throws of a start-up business in Thailand then this would be a legitimate expense depending on his countries tax laws.

Why not ask the question, rather then presume and jump to the answer.

I have appreciated some of your precious posts ... but this one is way off target ...

.

[robblok]

bleater completely lost me when he said he 'claims it back from my companies'.

Personal expenses should be exactly that - personal expenses. Using big alcohol bills as a tax dodge went out sometime in the early 90s here in Oz ...

Firstly 'bleater' is not particularly fair as his name is theblether ...

As for 'claiming' personal expenses, now you are stretching your post further ... you know nothing of his situation.

If he were in the throws of a start-up business in Thailand then this would be a legitimate expense depending on his countries tax laws.

Why not ask the question, rather then presume and jump to the answer.

I have appreciated some of your precious posts ... but this one is way off target ...

.

David he admits himself in a post he is deducting it partly. So its a valid remark those costs hit him less hard it is still legit of course.

[kennedy]

I think immigration is catching on to this. When I went to extend retirement stay I had a bad sinus infection (eyes looked liked <deleted>). Officer asked my wife if I drank a lot. I said why did he ask that? She said if you do they don't want you living here.

That said, how long can a farang on a government pension sit on a bar stool until broke.

I think the young one's families got tired sending money to them and cut them off.

[NeverSure]

bleater completely lost me when he said he 'claims it back from my companies'. How the hell does that equate to 'paying my own way' ?? It's like one of the Directors of a company I used to work for in Brisbane making a big deal about buying a bunch of my workmates drinks one night at a club in the city (after a work function), to the point of holding his credit card up for all to see. I knew it was too good to be true and, sure enough, his secretary told me he submitted an expense claim for every cent.

Personal expenses should be exactly that - personal expenses. Using big alcohol bills as a tax dodge went out sometime in the early 90s here in Oz ...

I don't know about any other country. But in the US if you own your own business, you can deliberately set it up so that you must travel. Simply have business involvement in two places, or travel for continuing education (a weekend seminar of mostly golfing) or any business related travel such a traveling to meet a partner or customer, and you can deduct it from income as an expense. Then it is a tax deduction. Tax evasion is a crime, tax avoidance is gloriously legal if legally planned.

So when I travel, I make d@mn sure it's for business purposes. Then my every cost is deductible, only up to a point for food and booze. But I can take a generous per diem for "food" and not have to account for it with receipts. I'm simply allowed a fixed amount.

So yes, even though my business is now scaled back and not so big, I can still use tax avoidance in those ways. I can lose money every year for up to 3 years and write the loss off against my other income such as social security and investment income.

Not in any way do I see Bletherer as exaggerating.

[phuturatica]

I've met a few and most of them are drunks who have been in Thailand too long and need to go home and sort their lives out.

Quite a shame really... Thailand really does ruin some people.

[NeverSure]

Sorry we're going off topic Bletherer. I can't imagine anyone spending all he earns anywhere, not do I understand expats not returning to their own countries. At least in my country, I could get health care, "food stamps," there is housing assistance and many private, charitable shelters, and frankly there are places in the US that are just as cheap if not cheaper than Bangkok.

Also, I can't understand anyone who doesn't have a network of friends and family back home. Did they already use them all up? Is there no old chum who would lend a couch until I got back on my feet? Of course there is.

[Hedghog]

How on earth did this turn into.

Bash theblether.

He made an observation of some foreigners living hand to mouth.

Of which I have seen many in my time here.

[Eff1n2ret]

, how long can a farang on a government pension sit on a bar stool until broke.

I can't speak for all nationalities, but for anyone who came to Thailand on a fixed income just 6 or 7 years ago when the £ was worth 70baht or more has suffered more than a third reduction in their spending power before any Thai inflation. That doesn't seem to apply to some nationalities such as Aussies and Swedes, but I wonder whether these vagrants in Chiang Mai with whom some posters seem obliged to share their existence are of any particular nationality.

[BoonToong]

I think it's a number of factors, not least of which is the decreasingly unfavourable currency exchange rates and also the increased cost of living.

Regarding cost of living; I have noticed that to live a 'Western/expat' lifestyle in Bangkok has increased markedly in the past 3 years. I certainly spend a lot less when I am up country (Issarn).

Why Chiang Mai? My only observation of that is that when I first got the idea to live in Thailand (about 4 years ago), my initial internet searches gave me the perception that CM was a good retirement place. It certainly made me go there to have a look. So maybe other people were tempted by the same marketing to live there? Those kind of people (retirees) would certainly suffer from the factors I've listed above.

[villagefarang]

I see a limited ability to understand the situation of others. Everyone takes their own situation and generalizes it to everyone else.

The paths through life are many and varied. The rich view the poor as an eyesore and the poor despise those who have more but we really shouldn’t be so judgmental or touchy.

Lets face it some people are here because it is cheap. Others are here for other reasons. The Blether likes to start topics that get us talking and examining things but too often posters turn it into something else or make it all about him.

I sympathize as some of my friends in the Chiang Rai forum do the same to me but I think there is value in topics like this, that get people talking and thinking. Of course it would be nice if some would think before they talk but you can’t have everything.

[Scully]

There is a bloke on Sukhumvit soi 7-8 living rough, constantly drinking. Cuts all over his legs and he gets looks of pitty from, both Thais and Westerners.

As for living on 5500 baht a day for a hoilday its is easily doable in the right area. Udon Thani 1000 baht will get you a hotel with large room, pool, gym good food. Transport round town a few hundred baht or hire a car for 800 baht a day. Many good retaurants but no taley

Go to Phuket I hear their prices are reasonable

[Scottythai]

If these men who are observed are in the age of 55 years or above and from the USA... I know why they would be in such a situation. With the economy as it is in the U.S. and with a real jobless rate pushing 20% (not the 8% propaganda the government hands out) then one 'goes to where the weather suits my clothes" as sang in Margaritaville. In the U.S. we have employment Age Discrimination laws that are practically never enforced by anyone. Since 2008 millions of men and women over age 55 have lost their jobs. And as a sobering practical matter these people will never get a professional job again. It would seem that homelessness will increase in places like Thailand - at least there people won't freeze at night sleeping under a tree.

While I see this as true. Life would be easier in a warm climate would there not be a sense of pride to make a person not want to end up being broke in a foregin country? I suppose rock bottom is rock bottom but at the average cost of 1200$ for a ticket to get to Thailand that would a bit far from rock bottom. As most countries like the US have a Welfare system where they will give you money and subsadised housing. But hey everyone has a different plan and being boke in a country sucks at least you won't be cold

I would suggest that the men I speak of did not go to Thailand being totally busted ... just went there to get away from continued disappointment at home. As opposed to home a near down and out guy can be somewhat anonymous in Thailand - at least the folks at home won't know. They get here and eventually run out of assets and it is easier to just hang out bum around ... hopefully not wear out their welcome... They sorta ease into it, No job or funds in Thailand is a better deal than no job or funds at home.

Ahh fair enough. I just would never leave to a country on holidays if I could not afford to go. Or if I could not pay my lving back home. (not been home for 5 years myself)

[Naam]

Fair point, but surely it's a hellish existence living in Thailand with no money?

isn't it a hellish existence living in any country without money?

[jamhar]

Not surprising if what you say is true.

Some people come here because the cost of living (food, rents, ect) is so low.

Some people who come here to visit stay because they like it here and (see above)

Some people who decide to stay here are then faced with the realization that there's not much in the way of jobs here.

Hence will have to live hand to mouth.

[NeverSure]

bleater completely lost me when he said he 'claims it back from my companies'. How the hell does that equate to 'paying my own way' ?? It's like one of the Directors of a company I used to work for in Brisbane making a big deal about buying a bunch of my workmates drinks one night at a club in the city (after a work function), to the point of holding his credit card up for all to see. I knew it was too good to be true and, sure enough, his secretary told me he submitted an expense claim for every cent.

Personal expenses should be exactly that - personal expenses. Using big alcohol bills as a tax dodge went out sometime in the early 90s here in Oz ...

If you have your own company then you can claim meals and entertainment if they are a legitimate business expense. Of course many people rort these quite a bit but nonetheless blethers claims are not unbelievable.

As an accountant many of my clients think they can deduct it all and think once they send it to me its deducted. I of course check the expenses and in doubt i ask and then if no good explanation is coming don't deduct it. Its a lot of barstool talk too about taxes most of the guys have no idea.

If I have receipts for the seminar I attended or the good client I met with, and good proof it was business related, I'll soon have a new accountant if he won't write it off. It will be the accountant who doesn't know what he's doing and he won't be allowed to complete my tax return.

Lifelong business people have a very good idea what's legal.

[robblok]

bleater completely lost me when he said he 'claims it back from my companies'. How the hell does that equate to 'paying my own way' ?? It's like one of the Directors of a company I used to work for in Brisbane making a big deal about buying a bunch of my workmates drinks one night at a club in the city (after a work function), to the point of holding his credit card up for all to see. I knew it was too good to be true and, sure enough, his secretary told me he submitted an expense claim for every cent.

Personal expenses should be exactly that - personal expenses. Using big alcohol bills as a tax dodge went out sometime in the early 90s here in Oz ...

If you have your own company then you can claim meals and entertainment if they are a legitimate business expense. Of course many people rort these quite a bit but nonetheless blethers claims are not unbelievable.

As an accountant many of my clients think they can deduct it all and think once they send it to me its deducted. I of course check the expenses and in doubt i ask and then if no good explanation is coming don't deduct it. Its a lot of barstool talk too about taxes most of the guys have no idea.

If I have receipts for the seminar I attended or the good client I met with, and good proof it was business related, I'll soon have a new accountant if he won't write it off. It will be the accountant who doesn't know what he's doing and he won't be allowed to complete my tax return.

Lifelong business people have a very good idea what's legal.

Accountants are careful and ask explanations and proof. Plus I hear its easier in the USA then in the Netherlands to do such things. I know what i am doing, but I err on the side of caution. Better not get fined and such.

You said you had good explanation and proof.. then there is no problem is there.

[Naam]

While I'm on my soapbox, I'd like to offer this - regardless of how much you currently earn or what your past extravagances may have been, try to keep that pace up for 3 solid months and they will be sending you home in a body bag. We all laugh at Lindsay Lohan, Charlie Sheen etc, but these are just folks with a bigger entertainment budget - its the same madness, albeit taken to extremes. I dont have the perspective of an expat, granted, but you dont have to be Einstein to see how quickly one's behaviour needs to change to survive retirement in Thailand - with that change, I would expect a corresponding decrease in the amount I spend each day, barring a partner who wants to shop in boutiques on a regular basis. Might as well start paying off a Porsche if I'm going to make choices like that ...

on what strange planet are you living that you think spending half a million Baht within three months kills? if that was the case i'd be dead since more than a quarter century.

note: no rent, no bars, fancy restaurants once in a blue moon, hotel and flights during rather rare holidays abroad not included, just simple freaking running expenses averaging THB 230k a month.

[MrWorldwide]

bleater completely lost me when he said he 'claims it back from my companies'.

Personal expenses should be exactly that - personal expenses. Using big alcohol bills as a tax dodge went out sometime in the early 90s here in Oz ...

Firstly 'bleater' is not particularly fair as his name is theblether ...

As for 'claiming' personal expenses, now you are stretching your post further ... you know nothing of his situation.

If he were in the throws of a start-up business in Thailand then this would be a legitimate expense depending on his countries tax laws.

Why not ask the question, rather then presume and jump to the answer.

I have appreciated some of your precious posts ... but this one is way off target ...

.

1. I think you mean 'throes', not 'throws', unless his business is Judo or Mongolian Wrestling I'm not going to spend my days pointing out typos or whatever, but you seem keen to correct me re theblitherer, er, theblether ...

2. This was never about his 'situation', simply my fervent wish that we start comparing apples with apples. I would happily go from ~6K a day to the aforementioned 10K if I knew I was going to get 4K of that back. Somehow, this turned into a pissing contest, and I apologise for my part in that.

One of the unfortunate realities of many Thai-based boards is that there is always a gallery of English teachers ready to pounce on every grammatical indiscretion, but I am neither English nor a teacher :I shall now retire to my basement for a cold shower and a damned good spanking with a piece of wet licorice. Toodles.

[rene123]

I've met a few and most of them are drunks who have been in Thailand too long and need to go home and sort their lives out.

Quite a shame really... Thailand really does ruin some people.

I think they were ruined before they ever came to Thailand, but the rest of what you said is true.

We've got about 3 or 4 different topics going on here at the same time and people are getting confused.

Traveling expenses can be deducted if there is a legitmate possibility of a future business adventure being successful. That is how it works in the business world. But, it can only go on for so long and profits DO need to be made or the tax department will not only toss out the present claim but start seriously auditing previous claims. We don't need a full blown discussion on tax accounting of the whole forum would bog down. That is why we hire tax accountants.

I've also seen foreign people on the shaky edge of poverty here in Thailand. They are the same people who will be in the same position in whatever country they come from. Naturally, the numbers of them increase when the economy goes flat. Long range planning is not normal for many people. That is equally true for the average Thai who only plans for the next meal. And, their plans change on a whim. That doesn't mean the people are not nice of pleasant to be with. They are not always heavy drinkers. They just never think realistically about the future.

[overherebc]

I've met a few and most of them are drunks who have been in Thailand too long and need to go home and sort their lives out.

Quite a shame really... Thailand really does ruin some people.

Many of the ones you talk about came here on contract work/construction/oil and gas in the mid 90's when it was so easy to get a job paying good money and to be honest the control of visas and work permits at that time was for sure not like it is now.

They arrived and discovered a world of easy everything and still can't their heads around the fact that those days are long gone.

They broke free of of the then dull lifestyle they had at home, including wifes and kids etc and just can't face the embarrassment of going home to admit they did it all wrong.

Staying here as a broke farang is an easier option for them as most could go back, do something constructive and put together enough cash to come back a couple of times a year and re-live the good old days.

[Briggsy]

I have heard stories of a few of these types.

Stereotype seems to be

Brits

on invalidity benefit or basic state pension drawing the money out of a hole in the wall every 2 weeks,

over 50 years old,

alcohol dependent,

shacked up with a local middle-aged divorcee from the peasant class,

quickly expert at drawing sympathy from other farangs with a plethora of hard luck tales,

in order to tap them up for drinks,

starts crying when the UK govt stop the payments.

[overherebc]

I have heard stories of a few of these types.

Stereotype seems to be

Brits

on invalidity benefit or basic state pension drawing the money out of a hole in the wall every 2 weeks,

over 50 years old,

alcohol dependent,

shacked up with a local middle-aged divorcee from the peasant class,

quickly expert at drawing sympathy from other farangs with a plethora of hard luck tales,

in order to tap them up for drinks,

starts crying when the UK govt stop the payments.

Accurate

Forgot to add , they usually seem to drive an old smoking 50cc something and do so irrespective of the number of Changs they have inside them.

[qdinthailand]

I have a hard time getting my head around the individual who comes to Thailand, decides to stay and spend every last cent/shilling/peso/whatever, without a plan to bailout back to the world of the known support system. So they have absolutely nothing to go back to? Absolutely no prospects of any type - family, friends, sources of income, handouts, social safety nets?

So here in LOS, they forget about visa renewals (with associated costs)? The forget they have no income, and no job to provide same? They somehow think they'll be able to fly under the radar and be able to live on the streets, or live the homeless life here, in Thailand, trying to outcompete with the locals?

I just don't understand myself, having never come close to such an 'existence'.

[poanoi]

The poorest man i saw was a retired ex Doctor, he had 100.000 baht per month in pension,

but his aggressive thai wife had her claws in his ATM card and didnt give him enough allowance

for 3 full dishes of kao pat, so he came once in a while borrowing 100 baht so he would make it through the day.

He was over 70 years old, what a way to go.

Ed: his rent was 5-6000, drank no beer at all, only ate his rice when he could afford

[chiangmaikelly]

The poorest man i saw was a retired ex Doctor, he had 100.000 baht per month in pension,

but his aggressive thai wife had her claws in his ATM card and didnt give him enough allowance

for 3 full dishes of kao pat, so he came once in a while borrowing 100 baht so he would make it through the day.

He was over 70 years old, what a way to go.

Ed: his rent was 5-6000, drank no beer at all, only ate his rice when he could afford

Good reason for a direct deposit account.

[Semper]

Seriously, 5500 baht a day is not a lot of money in Thailand for a guy on holiday. I'm amazed at anyone doubting that.

I thought the topic was about expats, not guys on a few weeks holiday.

[HeijoshinCool]

I have a hard time getting my head around the individual who comes to Thailand, decides to stay and spend every last cent/shilling/peso/whatever, without a plan to bailout back to the world of the known support system. So they have absolutely nothing to go back to? Absolutely no prospects of any type - family, friends, sources of income, handouts, social safety nets?

So here in LOS, they forget about visa renewals (with associated costs)? The forget they have no income, and no job to provide same? They somehow think they'll be able to fly under the radar and be able to live on the streets, or live the homeless life here, in Thailand, trying to outcompete with the locals?

I just don't understand myself, having never come close to such an 'existence'.

The people who do that here, would do it in their home country too. There's always options available if someone is industrious and in good mental health.

[MrWorldwide]

The poorest man i saw was a retired ex Doctor, he had 100.000 baht per month in pension,

but his aggressive thai wife had her claws in his ATM card and didnt give him enough allowance

for 3 full dishes of kao pat, so he came once in a while borrowing 100 baht so he would make it through the day.

He was over 70 years old, what a way to go.

Ed: his rent was 5-6000, drank no beer at all, only ate his rice when he could afford

Good reason for a direct deposit account.

Better reason for the suicide bag I linked to earlier. Considerably less painful than trying to limp back to Farangland and throw oneself on the mercies of an overloaded welfare system. 70 years is more than enough, IMO - once you find yourself in that deep at that age, its time for the bag.

[kevvy]

On my last trip four......I noticed a couple of things last time round that stuck in my mind, and this was one of them. There seems to be an explosion of long tern farangs in Chiang Mai and equally, there seems to be an explosion of people scraping by......I don't think it will be long before we see farang vagrants on the streets of CM, in fact the CM community may know of some already.

and you have gone and asked these people ... maybe they like the way they live .. i have seen stories where people look broke and yet they have a fortune in the bank dont judge a book by its cover , do some reading first.

[Neeranam]

I'd rather be skint here than in Scotland.