How Corrupt Is Thailand, Your Perception.

[NewlyMintedThai]

Many of the typical posters here would flee Thailand like rats from a sinking ship if corruption were stamped out here.

No go-go bars, massage parlors fronting for prostitution, prescription meds over the counter, knock-off movies on every street corner, widespread disregard for work permit laws and the laws forbidding nominee ownership of companies for the purpose of foreigners owning land...all the little niceties that many people don't stop to think about before they go on a corruption whinge because they maybe had to give a traffic cop a red note.

sure but your making a wildly large assumption of the laws being the same if all the laws were enforced for all.

A lot of the corruption of a system is passing demanding laws which are then arbitrarily enforced by the police.

China for example has strong anti pollution laws but these laws are selectively enforced to prevent foreign competition. For connected Chinese firms these regulations mean next to nothing.

For example In Thailand prostitution is technically illegal but its basically just enforced against foreigners and non connected entities.

If the country and leaders wanted prostitution wouldn't the laws be changed to reflect a rule of law system?

OK, so you presumably imagine the Thais stamping out corruption while at the same time legalizing prostitution, lurid display of flesh in bars, selling potentially dangerous medications over the counter, selling counterfeit merchandise, operating mobile bars on the sidewalks, farangs owning land, and being able to work freely without permits.

Yeah...I can see that happening.

[chiangmaikelly]

There is much corruption in Thailand and theThai's know it but say "up to you". I got so tired of hearing that prase that wife and I had many discussions about Thailand. I am American and retired in Thailand which lasted 5 months. There is curruption in America but you have options of protection for government agencies. The cost of Thailand and America are not far apart. You pay for what you get!! I also notice in Thailand that the many people from other countries live there because of the sex and whatever your preference may be. In the statess this is a crime. Good Luck to all in Thailand.Oh! I do return once a your to visit my wives family......

Due diligence. 1 year in Bangkok, 3 in Chiang Mai, 3 in Pattaya and along the way a number of women. I don't smoke or drink and it costs me half as much as the States to live here and considering I lived in Chicago the corruption is less in Thailand. But there is no such thing as a free lunch. If you want to have a happy life in Thailand one must do a number of things that the man on a 5 month vacation is not going to have time to do.

It is widely believed that the expression "there is no such thing as a free lunch" originated in Chicago.

But please do explain what you mean with "If you want to etc..."

[nidieunimaitre]

To be honest, I find the level of corruption in Thailand a little easier to live with than the level of corruption in Australia! At least here everybody knows it goes on and makes adjustments to allow for it. In Australia we have a rotten to the core Prime Minister who has been implicated in nefarious dealings throughout her adult life surrounded by a team of ex union leaders who are in it for everything they can get out of it.

The difference is that the people involved in daily corruption here are poorly paid police officers and the ones running the corruption in Australia are (very) overpaid politicians. Julia Gillard is better paid than Barack Obama for gods sake and still she taints everything she touches.

Give me the "honest" corruption here over the type found in Australia and a lot of other supposedly clean countries.

I couldn't have said it better the same is for Canada I see it every time I come back here. Thanks

I agree.

In thailand there are no overpaid politicians, and they are not corrupt.

Thai police are underpaid, they alledgedly steal money just to be able to buy noodles, and there is no pyramid scheme in which they pass on most of the money to their equally poor superiors.

And there are not enough muslims in Canada, Australia and Thailand.

What else can we agree on?

Thanks.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

Many of the typical posters here would flee Thailand like rats from a sinking ship if corruption were stamped out here.

No go-go bars, massage parlors fronting for prostitution, prescription meds over the counter, knock-off movies on every street corner, widespread disregard for work permit laws and the laws forbidding nominee ownership of companies for the purpose of foreigners owning land...all the little niceties that many people don't stop to think about before they go on a corruption whinge because they maybe had to give a traffic cop a red note.

sure but your making a wildly large assumption of the laws being the same if all the laws were enforced for all.

A lot of the corruption of a system is passing demanding laws which are then arbitrarily enforced by the police.

China for example has strong anti pollution laws but these laws are selectively enforced to prevent foreign competition. For connected Chinese firms these regulations mean next to nothing.

For example In Thailand prostitution is technically illegal but its basically just enforced against foreigners and non connected entities.

If the country and leaders wanted prostitution wouldn't the laws be changed to reflect a rule of law system?

OK, so you presumably imagine the Thais stamping out corruption while at the same time legalizing prostitution, lurid display of flesh in bars, selling potentially dangerous medications over the counter, selling counterfeit merchandise, operating mobile bars on the sidewalks, farangs owning land, and being able to work freely without permits.

Yeah...I can see that happening.

becoming a rule of law society is obviously a large hypothetical change for Thailand and I could not forcast how they would deal with prostitution. It might be a middle ground of decriminalization etc.

You get my drift though.. Thailand could not have the same laws as now if they were applied to all.

[h5kaf]

To be honest, I find the level of corruption in Thailand a little easier to live with than the level of corruption in Australia! At least here everybody knows it goes on and makes adjustments to allow for it. In Australia we have a rotten to the core Prime Minister who has been implicated in nefarious dealings throughout her adult life surrounded by a team of ex union leaders who are in it for everything they can get out of it.

The difference is that the people involved in daily corruption here are poorly paid police officers and the ones running the corruption in Australia are (very) overpaid politicians. Julia Gillard is better paid than Barack Obama for gods sake and still she taints everything she touches.

Give me the "honest" corruption here over the type found in Australia and a lot of other supposedly clean countries.

Spot on. The politicians in the UK have their snouts in the trough as well, telling us all how we should behave whilst they can do what they like. At least in Thailand I never felt corruption was a problem, just a way of life. Here in the UK it is an oppressive fog that is a perk of the political class that hangs over the rest of us.

[nidieunimaitre]

To be honest, I find the level of corruption in Thailand a little easier to live with than the level of corruption in Australia! At least here everybody knows it goes on and makes adjustments to allow for it. In Australia we have a rotten to the core Prime Minister who has been implicated in nefarious dealings throughout her adult life surrounded by a team of ex union leaders who are in it for everything they can get out of it.

The difference is that the people involved in daily corruption here are poorly paid police officers and the ones running the corruption in Australia are (very) overpaid politicians. Julia Gillard is better paid than Barack Obama for gods sake and still she taints everything she touches.

Give me the "honest" corruption here over the type found in Australia and a lot of other supposedly clean countries.

Spot on. The politicians in the UK have their snouts in the trough as well, telling us all how we should behave whilst they can do what they like. At least in Thailand I never felt corruption was a problem, just a way of life. Here in the UK it is an oppressive fog that is a perk of the political class that hangs over the rest of us.

care to explain?

[simple1]

To be honest, I find the level of corruption in Thailand a little easier to live with than the level of corruption in Australia! At least here everybody knows it goes on and makes adjustments to allow for it. In Australia we have a rotten to the core Prime Minister who has been implicated in nefarious dealings throughout her adult life surrounded by a team of ex union leaders who are in it for everything they can get out of it.

The difference is that the people involved in daily corruption here are poorly paid police officers and the ones running the corruption in Australia are (very) overpaid politicians. Julia Gillard is better paid than Barack Obama for gods sake and still she taints everything she touches.

Give me the "honest" corruption here over the type found in Australia and a lot of other supposedly clean countries.

Spot on. The politicians in the UK have their snouts in the trough as well, telling us all how we should behave whilst they can do what they like. At least in Thailand I never felt corruption was a problem, just a way of life. Here in the UK it is an oppressive fog that is a perk of the political class that hangs over the rest of us.

good thinking - someone kills your best friend/partner & pays money to be released on bail to disappear; never mind TIT? Import billions of cold tablets from China for processing into YaBa or meth, pay off Customs and police, no problem? Buy a property for your retirement that has false documentation provided to the seller by an official in the Land Office and misrepresentation by your lawyer, loose your investment, no recourse.; no problem? Politicians earning millions in kickbacks on government funded projects for things such as schools, hospitals, rice pledging, dams, infrastructure etc etc slowing down the development of Thailand for it's people; no problem? Limited freedom of expression - no problem?

Of course all the above examples are supported by the political class & pail into insignificance compared to political corruption and oppression in the U.K. Overall I like living in Thailand, but to say corruption here is preferable to the UK or Oz is living in dreamland.

Edited March 3, 2013 by simple1

[avalonmick]

have houses and rice land, driven 100,000+km mostly in rural areas. corruption of government officials is minimal and small time. its whenyou getto central government and big business interests that large scale malfeasance kicks in, and thats what is holding the country back.

I've been fined by cops on country highways and if he pocketed the baht then so be it.

But being asked fora "fee" to get a visa faster or for a donation to a political party so the permits get issued or a kickback if you win the contract is a different level and has far reaching ramifications.

[avalonmick]

You guys may be missing the point. The problem in Thailand is the lack of rule by law, allowing corruption to flourish.

I'll be banned from Thaivisa if I mention my theory about why there is no rule of law here.

Patience old boy. The clock is ticking. Change will come.

yes, I'm afraid that we may be heading for interesting times.

I'm now a firm believer that the Mayans were right: for many 2013 will mark the end of life as they have known it, and the will not be good.

[richard10365]

http://www.transparency.org/country#THA

[cooked]

You guys may be missing the point. The problem in Thailand is the lack of rule by law, allowing corruption to flourish.

I'll be banned from Thaivisa if I mention my theory about why there is no rule of law here.

Patience old boy. The clock is ticking. Change will come.

yes, I'm afraid that we may be heading for interesting times.

I'm now a firm believer that the Mayans were right: for many 2013 will mark the end of life as they have known it, and the will not be good.

If this means an end to 'intelligent' life as If we know it, then I'm all for it.

[StreetCowboy]

To be honest, I find the level of corruption in Thailand a little easier to live with than the level of corruption in Australia! At least here everybody knows it goes on and makes adjustments to allow for it. In Australia we have a rotten to the core Prime Minister who has been implicated in nefarious dealings throughout her adult life surrounded by a team of ex union leaders who are in it for everything they can get out of it.

The difference is that the people involved in daily corruption here are poorly paid police officers and the ones running the corruption in Australia are (very) overpaid politicians. Julia Gillard is better paid than Barack Obama for gods sake and still she taints everything she touches.

Give me the "honest" corruption here over the type found in Australia and a lot of other supposedly clean countries.

Spot on. The politicians in the UK have their snouts in the trough as well, telling us all how we should behave whilst they can do what they like. At least in Thailand I never felt corruption was a problem, just a way of life. Here in the UK it is an oppressive fog that is a perk of the political class that hangs over the rest of us.

care to explain?

A lot of our posters seem to combine naive stupidity with paranoid cynicism.

My experience is that democracy works to the extent that we are willing to put the effort in, and we are lucky that a small minority that cares put the effort in to mitigate the consequences of my own apathy, and the apathy, sloth and greed of my fellow voters

SC

[KED]

The medium level is with the police which is the most corrupt institution in the country - the instances of their treatment of rape victims, farangs being singled out for extortion, violence against activists, just turning a blind eye when a bribe is paid.

Gotta say, never experienced white foreigners being singled out by the police. More likely to let you off because they can't speak English. The Thais seem to suffer much more from police scams.

Many years back, there was a constant police presence along Silom looking for farangs throwing cigarette butts, but I haven't seen it in many years. There have been a few threads about this along Suk. more recently.

[midasthailand]

To be honest, I find the level of corruption in Thailand a little easier to live with than the level of corruption in Australia! At least here everybody knows it goes on and makes adjustments to allow for it. In Australia we have a rotten to the core Prime Minister who has been implicated in nefarious dealings throughout her adult life surrounded by a team of ex union leaders who are in it for everything they can get out of it.

The difference is that the people involved in daily corruption here are poorly paid police officers and the ones running the corruption in Australia are (very) overpaid politicians. Julia Gillard is better paid than Barack Obama for gods sake and still she taints everything she touches.

Give me the "honest" corruption here over the type found in Australia and a lot of other supposedly clean countries.

Spot on. The politicians in the UK have their snouts in the trough as well, telling us all how we should behave whilst they can do what they like. At least in Thailand I never felt corruption was a problem, just a way of life. Here in the UK it is an oppressive fog that is a perk of the political class that hangs over the rest of us.

care to explain?

A lot of our posters seem to combine naive stupidity with paranoid cynicism.

My experience is that democracy works to the extent that we are willing to put the effort in, and we are lucky that a small minority that cares put the effort in to mitigate the consequences of my own apathy, and the apathy, sloth and greed of my fellow voters

SC

I see the three stooges all liked your post !

[JurgenG]

Sawasdee Khrup, Khun Jurgen,

The degree to which "corruption," which you never really define clearly, and which could have a very broad spectrum of meanings, affects a given expat living here long-time will, in my opinion, vary greatly with: why a given expat is here; what they are doing here; and what their lifestyle is. And, where they live, who they live with, what Thais they are involved with, both personally, and in business.

And, "corruption" must, I believe be discussed in discrete categories: the corruption problems that a major outside-Thailand company doing business here may face, is, I believe, very different from what individual expats, or individual expats running small independent businesses, may face. And that's a very different scenario than a retired couple, not working, coming here to enjoy low cost-of-living, for the end of their days, and generally behaving politely, and within the law.

And, I believe that, just like the random urban crime and violence that can occur in any large modern city in America or Europe (particularly if you somehow are in the "wrong" neighborhood at night): well ... serendipity's lightning can strike, and random factors can set in motion a frightening escalation of events.

If you are an expat coming here to work, for an established multi-national company, your work-permit, and visa, taken care of, getting paid a home-country-level salary: that's one "kettle of fish."

If you are a "refugee expat," or "self-exile," from your home country, and you are running a business here, either off-the-books, or halfway-off-the-books, with the assistance of legal-trickery, and paying under-the-table for official "favors:" another kettle of something: something much more dangerous.

If you are here with a Thai partner, with businesses, and/or property in their name: another reality.

And, finally, we come, to the lower circles of Dante's Inferno, whence cometh those who arrive here for the altered-states of Amazing Thailand, (booze, sex, drugs, all the preceding) so easily available ... as long as the farang's money is flowing ... those who dwell, somewhat subterraneanly ... people who come here to self-destruct: drunkards, whore-mongers, shady con-artists passing themselves off as the fantasy of who they always dreamed of being. People whose tombstone epitaph might as well say: "lovin's just another word for nothing left to lose."

Is it corruption, if the Thai sovereign government legally changes the terms and conditions of foreigners doing business here ? For a large multi-national doing business here: perhaps: "yes," given long-term contractual agreements signed with official entities of the Thai government (like BOI), supposed to last for many years, and given international law, and country-to-country trade agreements: but, for the individual foreigners doing business, my guess is: they can be "squeezed" at any time.

Most of the expats I have seen get in "deep <deleted>" here over the years, were arrogant people who, intoxicated by the many charms of Thailand, and the flattery of Thais who spotted them, quickly, as "marks:" well, just as Ulysses' men were bewitched, seduced, on Circe's Island, and started turning into swine: these characters were either "swinish" to begin with, or had "high bacon-potential," in their genes. They played the loopholes, they attracted attention to themselves by behavior, or by display of wealth; and they never learned to keep a smile-on, no matter what bureaucratic latrine they had stumbled head-first into.

So, in conclusion, it is my humble opinion that, in discussing the relative corruption of nations, we have to be quite specific about "who" and "what" is experiencing "corruption," and what, exactly, that means to the members of that nation's culture(s). We need to distinguish between macro-level on-and-off the books economic inputs, and outputs, and micro-level impact on individuals daily-lives: here in Amazing T., there are a vast number of individuals "way down" a social spectrum characterized by great inequality of wealth (which is increasing in magnitude here, just as it is in America).

The tuk-tuk-driver who pays the local motosai Police "collector," a hundred baht a day to park in front of a certain hotel, which is a prime spot to pick up possibly "high-profit" farang tourists. The group of my neighbors who finally got their small soi paved by ponying up a donation, passed along through the village headman, to the "right people."

A friend of mine drove from Chiang Mai to Bangkok several years ago, in a relatively expensive car; he was pulled over four times in one day by motosai cops, and paid the de rigueur 500 baht "fine," on the spot, for the "violation" to "disappear." He was convinced they pulled him over because he was farang, and his license plates were from out-of Bangkok. Perhaps he should have had his windows darkened with whatever they use here to render them more opaque ?

Are events like these the "corruption," you are talking about here ?

Or, are you talking, on a more macro-scale, about the corruption surrounding the government, and its macro-economic major projects, and large-scale construction projects (often involving one, or more, large foreign multi-national companies); or, the procurement of imported goods; or, the tax-system, in which (as in the U.S.), the very wealthy can use all the loopholes ? The rice-pledge scheme ? The flood-control measures promised and promised for central Thailand and Bangkok ?

A more interesting question to ask may be: to what extent some form of "corruption" directly intrudes into, and affects, the daily personal lives of what percentage of the population here, compared to ... China, Vietnam, and other Asian countries: "corruption" as they perceive it.

If it is traditional here, in Amazing T., as I've witnessed personally, to see even farangs paying-off the police to perform collection services of unpaid (but legitimate) debts from other farangs: what does that mean in terms of how you define "corruption" ?

So, my friend, which end of the telescope are we looking through: or, are we looking into a mirror of the kind used in rear-view mirrors in automobiles; the kind that usually has the warning: "things may be closer than they appear."

In my grandfather's boy-hood (late in the end of the 19th. century, and a little ways into the 20th.), he remembered voting-days very well, down in the southern part of Georgia, in the U.S.: a wagon would come by, with a drummer, and a trumpet player, making whoopee, and full of barrels of free whiskey, being generously doled out, and his father, my gg-father, would go off on horse-back, or on the wagon, if there was room, to vote the Democratic whomever into whatever office, and then he would return home slightly drunk, whence my stern gg-grandmother would, in the words of those days, "throw a hissy fit, " when he got back. My gg-father was a Civil War orphan, who fathered 17 children, of whom only eleven survived beyond age ten: my grandfather was the last of them to die, at age 102.

Was 19th. century America, particularly high-population urban cities, run by corrupt political machines: yep. Did that tradition of "city-hall boss," and patronage system, very often involving the police, extend long into the 20th. century: is it still alive until day ? Did war-mongers, like Hearst, collude with the military, to create a fake "act of war," the sinking of "The Maine," that provided an excuse for the American conquest of Cuba, as, decades later, the so-called "Gulf of Tonkin" incident was faked in order to escalate the Vietnam war, as, later, true assessments of Iraq's WMD's were ignored, and false assessments used, to justify an invasion of Iraq?

The international "disagreement," over a millennium old Khmer temple to Shiva at Preah Vihar, and its use as a shuttlecock in the internecine badminton matches within Thailand's internal politics ... nominally an issue between Thailand and Cambodia, being adjudicated by a World Court body ... is that an example of macro-macro-national level ... corruption ?

Are we talking about large-scale geo-political "corruption" here, in the always Machiavellian interactions between nation-states ?

Corruption: is it in the very bowels of our human nature, as Chaucer once suggested, when he wrote the striking lines in "The Pardoner'sTale," in the immortal "Canterbury Tales:"

"O wombe! O bely! O stynkyng cod Fulfilled of dong and of corrupcioun!."

Well, Chaucer was undoubtedly referring to the decay of the body by "corrupcioun:" is there a geo-body of a nation, that also decays, or is it just ceaseless change, and transmutation, to a new geo-body that proclaims itself a phoenix risen from the ashes of death, to mid-wife, and nurse, the childhood of a new-world order, where virtue is, once again, demanded to be perceived as ubiquitous, and where to deny the pure virtue of the truth's current version is: treason; and, warrants the death of the denier, as Giordano Bruno, found out, before he was burned by the Holy Inquisition, in 1600, for his views expressed in words like these:

"The beginning, middle, and end of the birth, growth, and perfection of whatever we behold is from contraries, by contraries, and to contraries; and whatever contrariety is, there is action and reaction, there is motion, diversity, multitude, and order, there are degrees, succession and vicissitude. "

~o:37;

Thank you for this excellent answer, very thorough. Each of your paragraph deserves to be the subject of its own thread. During my student years I would have probably written a 10 pages essay in reply. Today when a comment should be written in no more than 140 characters (my luck, I don't think I could write these 10 pages essays anymore), I would say, IMHO probably the best answer so far.

[simple1]

@midasthailand: Thanks for the comparison - three stooges made some great social commentary

[TommoPhysicist]

A lot of our posters seem to combine naive stupidity with paranoid cynicism.

My experience is that democracy works to the extent that we are willing to put the effort in, and we are lucky that a small minority that cares put the effort in to mitigate the consequences of my own apathy, and the apathy, sloth and greed of my fellow voters

SC

As foreigners in Thailand, we are allowed to play no part in the 'Thai democratic process', so our effort or apathy is irrelevant.

[NewlyMintedThai]

This is true everywhere, no? Only citizens vote. Not sure what you were expecting?

[StreetCowboy]

A lot of our posters seem to combine naive stupidity with paranoid cynicism.

My experience is that democracy works to the extent that we are willing to put the effort in, and we are lucky that a small minority that cares put the effort in to mitigate the consequences of my own apathy, and the apathy, sloth and greed of my fellow voters

SC

As foreigners in Thailand, we are allowed to play no part in the 'Thai democratic process', so our effort or apathy is irrelevant.

I was posting in response to a fellow poster who was whinging that he felt his elected government was corrupt and that the society that he had helped shape was corrupt.

Here, it is easier to pretend that we have no influence, and that our apathy and indifference is excused, though perhaps it is our duty to set an example of excellent ethical behaviour for the benefit of our less-morally-advantaged hosts

SC

[transam]

A lot of our posters seem to combine naive stupidity with paranoid cynicism.

My experience is that democracy works to the extent that we are willing to put the effort in, and we are lucky that a small minority that cares put the effort in to mitigate the consequences of my own apathy, and the apathy, sloth and greed of my fellow voters

SC

As foreigners in Thailand, we are allowed to play no part in the 'Thai democratic process', so our effort or apathy is irrelevant.

I was posting in response to a fellow poster who was whinging that he felt his elected government was corrupt and that the society that he had helped shape was corrupt.

Here, it is easier to pretend that we have no influence, and that our apathy and indifference is excused, though perhaps it is our duty to set an example of excellent ethical behaviour for the benefit of our less-morally-advantaged hosts

SC

But the natives see the farang flip flop brigade and are very confused.

[phalangBuddha]

I was just discussing this with a few other phalangs. We all agreed that any small time out in the open corruption is way better than being hauled off to jail in the west for nothing. Which happens all the time. America is a prison state. So I will gladly pay 1000 baht to stay out of trouble if I have to.

Edited July 5, 2013 by phalangBuddha

[DiNiro]

When I flew into the Thai airport yesterday, after clearing immigration, the first 5 people I encountered were scammers, so it set the tone.

Makes me think all Thais are scammers......

Welcome to Thailand.

[kikoman]

To be honest, I find the level of corruption in Thailand a little easier to live with than the level of corruption in Australia! At least here everybody knows it goes on and makes adjustments to allow for it. In Australia we have a rotten to the core Prime Minister who has been implicated in nefarious dealings throughout her adult life surrounded by a team of ex union leaders who are in it for everything they can get out of it.

The difference is that the people involved in daily corruption here are poorly paid police officers and the ones running the corruption in Australia are (very) overpaid politicians. Julia Gillard is better paid than Barack Obama for gods sake and still she taints everything she touches.

Give me the "honest" corruption here over the type found in Australia and a lot of other supposedly clean countries.

Dont forget to vote her out this year.

The corruption is here to stay, it will never be stamped out in this country. At least everyone knows where they stand this way.

You pay for what you get and you get what you pay for.

The difference is that some will pay to get out of doing something illegal, this is how corruption flourishes any where. They who pay a bribe are just as corrupt as those that take a bribe, there would be none of that type of corruption if everyone refused to pay a bribe and instead take the fine for breaking the traffic law.

You do not see much of the governmental type corruption in the west because they have passed laws that requires you to get a building permit for improvements on your property, or you are required by a home owners associate that tell you when you have to cut your lawn, hedge or what type of flag you can fly on your property, ect.

While U.S, police will not accept bribes, they were just found guilty by the court, that Arizona Sheriff's profiled minorities for traffic stops for no other reason other than they were minorities, only the people with money can afford to fund a campaign to be elected to political office or pork barrel projects by politicians like Sarah Palin's famous "bridge to nowhere" that surfaced during the Presidential election.

II am not saying there is not high level corruption in Thailand , but it does not effect me as the corruption back home effected me.

Cheers: .

[kevvy]

To be honest, I find the level of corruption in Thailand a little easier to live with than the level of corruption in Australia! At least here everybody knows it goes on and makes adjustments to allow for it. In Australia we have a rotten to the core Prime Minister who has been implicated in nefarious dealings throughout her adult life surrounded by a team of ex union leaders who are in it for everything they can get out of it.

The difference is that the people involved in daily corruption here are poorly paid police officers and the ones running the corruption in Australia are (very) overpaid politicians. Julia Gillard is better paid than Barack Obama for gods sake and still she taints everything she touches.

Give me the "honest" corruption here over the type found in Australia and a lot of other supposedly clean countries.

honest corruption here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! the police take money from the very poor people and make themselves rich by it . 2 weeks ago we sold land to a policeman who paid us in cash , used bills not new bank notes. and we are not talking about a small amount of money . why does the poor people in this country suffer from corruption and their children suffer too. how many times do we see one or 2 police officers on the side of the road getting tea money from the poor.

[Heng]

Adapting (and that doesn't have to mean joining in) to corruption here is no different than adjusting to the local heat, rain, relatively lazy general population or anything else.

[jpinx]

To be honest, I find the level of corruption in Thailand a little easier to live with than the level of corruption in Australia! At least here everybody knows it goes on and makes adjustments to allow for it. In Australia we have a rotten to the core Prime Minister who has been implicated in nefarious dealings throughout her adult life surrounded by a team of ex union leaders who are in it for everything they can get out of it.

The difference is that the people involved in daily corruption here are poorly paid police officers and the ones running the corruption in Australia are (very) overpaid politicians. Julia Gillard is better paid than Barack Obama for gods sake and still she taints everything she touches.

Give me the "honest" corruption here over the type found in Australia and a lot of other supposedly clean countries.

honest corruption here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! the police take money from the very poor people and make themselves rich by it . 2 weeks ago we sold land to a policeman who paid us in cash , used bills not new bank notes. and we are not talking about a small amount of money . why does the poor people in this country suffer from corruption and their children suffer too. how many times do we see one or 2 police officers on the side of the road getting tea money from the poor.

Who are these poor people of Thailand? The recyclers living at the bottom of my soi are making more than a UK pensioner. There was a case of a beggar in central Bangkok somewhere on Sukhumvit who was making about 10,000 Baht per day and had his own car come to collect him at night - he had no legs. I see "poor" farmers driving around in new pickups, "poor" market girls on new scooters. THai people are clever enough to not show their wealth, but go and live with a family for a while and the relativity of "poor" becomes apparent.

[Heng]

To be honest, I find the level of corruption in Thailand a little easier to live with than the level of corruption in Australia! At least here everybody knows it goes on and makes adjustments to allow for it. In Australia we have a rotten to the core Prime Minister who has been implicated in nefarious dealings throughout her adult life surrounded by a team of ex union leaders who are in it for everything they can get out of it.

The difference is that the people involved in daily corruption here are poorly paid police officers and the ones running the corruption in Australia are (very) overpaid politicians. Julia Gillard is better paid than Barack Obama for gods sake and still she taints everything she touches.

Give me the "honest" corruption here over the type found in Australia and a lot of other supposedly clean countries.

honest corruption here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! the police take money from the very poor people and make themselves rich by it . 2 weeks ago we sold land to a policeman who paid us in cash , used bills not new bank notes. and we are not talking about a small amount of money . why does the poor people in this country suffer from corruption and their children suffer too. how many times do we see one or 2 police officers on the side of the road getting tea money from the poor.

Who are these poor people of Thailand? The recyclers living at the bottom of my soi are making more than a UK pensioner.

I'm sure you mean the people who own the local recycling 'reselling' business (their margins are 80-120%+ on everything... which probably beats inflation by quite a bit), not the people who ride/walk around collecting.

[jpinx]

To be honest, I find the level of corruption in Thailand a little easier to live with than the level of corruption in Australia! At least here everybody knows it goes on and makes adjustments to allow for it. In Australia we have a rotten to the core Prime Minister who has been implicated in nefarious dealings throughout her adult life surrounded by a team of ex union leaders who are in it for everything they can get out of it.

The difference is that the people involved in daily corruption here are poorly paid police officers and the ones running the corruption in Australia are (very) overpaid politicians. Julia Gillard is better paid than Barack Obama for gods sake and still she taints everything she touches.

Give me the "honest" corruption here over the type found in Australia and a lot of other supposedly clean countries.

honest corruption here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! the police take money from the very poor people and make themselves rich by it . 2 weeks ago we sold land to a policeman who paid us in cash , used bills not new bank notes. and we are not talking about a small amount of money . why does the poor people in this country suffer from corruption and their children suffer too. how many times do we see one or 2 police officers on the side of the road getting tea money from the poor.

Who are these poor people of Thailand? The recyclers living at the bottom of my soi are making more than a UK pensioner.

I'm sure you mean the people who own the local recycling 'reselling' business (their margins are 80-120%+ on everything... which probably beats inflation by quite a bit), not the people who ride/walk around collecting.

Actually no. I know one family to speak to and they collect, sort and sell everything and make a lot more than a basic government worker on 300Baht/day The daughter recently bought a new scooter and the father has a new pickup

Meet them by day and they are really filthy from the rubbish, but they scrub up well !!

Edited July 6, 2013 by jpinx

[IMA_FARANG]

Corrupt yes, but corrupt in comparison to what?

Vietnam, for example has two of it's previous ministers involved in state run businesses currently in jail for corruption and lost a lot of government money due to their corruption and illegal and corrupt business deals with a state run company.

They were both high ranking members of the Vietnamese Communist Party.

Involved in operating the state controlled bank and millions of dollars(equivalent) fraud from a number of state-run agencies by bank frauds. One official, and his wife will both be spending 30 jail for corruption.

The Philippines ... I personally think that corruption there is more common than in Thailand. Especially the police.

Singapore .... I know of a police officer in Singapore who when he thought he was about to have a bribe suggested to him for a favor.... actually told the businessman who was about to offer a bribe not to continue speaking .... because if he was even asked if he would accept a payment for a "favor" he would have to have the businessman who made that comment arrested for attempting to offer a bribe to a police officer as soon as he made the offer.

South Vietnam, (before 1975 and the Communist takeover) was FAR more corrupt than Thailand ever will be. I had a friend then who once joked about a Vietnamese teenage girl ,,,, and the policeman who heard it told him, seriously, that for the right sum of money he (the policeman) could arrange for the girl's father to be arrested, put in jail, and not let out of jail until he (the father) agreed to force his teenage daughter to live with my friend as his "girlfriend".

The policeman was serious ... easy to do he said .... but my friend never took him up on the offer. My friend told me he had no doubt that the policeman was serious.

Edited July 6, 2013 by IMA_FARANG

[rsokolowski]

Have been stopped by some police and asked for tea money (2000 baht), but it is not common and I have dealt with honest police officers much more often.

Political corruption may be worse in Thailand, but I am not so sure. With the union influence and lobbyists to government, I think it may just be more tidy in the USA (and the west) than in Thailand.