Do Thai-Farang Marriages Survive The Menopause

[chris2004]

I think most farangs would be dead by the time their (young) thai wife/tgf had the menopause.

[JDGRUEN]

Some women go through menopause with seemingly no great sets of problems... others seem cursed with horrible ups and downs (even lefts and rights). I try to remain civil about it as it is physiological / body chemical problem. But when the woman becomes Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde - with Bipolar - Manic-Depressive swings of behavior, becomes paranoid - well it just becomes too much - WAY too much. American women can get better medical attention with various drugs to help and it often works. The Thai women that I have known who had severe reactions to menopause do not seem to get good treatment. I don't think the disorder is well understood in a Western sense at all by Thai doctors. But bottom line on a daily basis living with a woman Thai or not who is getting the worst side of the menopausal hormonal imbalances - while I may feel sorry for her - I can't and won't live with her - Thai, American or who ever. I don't have five years of life to just throw away walking through a living mine field.

Edited March 9, 2013 by JDGRUEN

[rene123]

This thread is going to be a blood bath...

Bro, uncool.

Uncool, but true. My mother went through about 5 years of it and my father just escaped out the back door with his fishing rod in hand. I was the beneficiary of that because I came along as often as I could. My sister was more of the girly girl type and stayed home with mom. She had to suffer the problems of temper tantrums from a grown adult.

[Sheryl]

Some women go through menopause with seemingly no great sets of problems... others seem cursed with horrible ups and downs (even lefts and rights). I try to remain civil about it as it is physiological / body chemical problem. But when the woman becomes Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde - with Bipolar - Manic-Depressive swings of behavior, becomes paranoid - well it just becomes too much - WAY too much. American women can get better medical attention with various drugs to help and it often works. The Thai women that I have known who had severe reactions to menopause do not seem to get good treatment. I don't think the disorder is well understood in a Western sense at all by Thai doctors. But bottom line on a daily basis living with a woman Thai or not who is getting the worst side of the menopausal hormonal imbalances - while I may feel sorry for her - I can't and won't live with her - Thai, American or who ever. I don't have five years of life to just throw away walking through a living mine field.

Exactly right. First of all, most Thai women do not know much about the physiology of menopause and that various related problems can be treated, so majority don't seek medical help. Adding to that, when they do, Thai doctors are not that well trained, although there are of course exceptions.

Need to understand that the issue is not only menopause but also the peri-menopause, the years prior to menopause (which can be as much as 10-15 years before it)

It is common for women to experience mood disorders during the peri-menopause, in particular PMDD (some unfortunate women experience that all their lives, but the incidence/severity definitely goes up greatly during the peri-menopause). This will manifest as irritability and even string bursts of rage and if one pays close attention will be found to occur cyclically, starting anywhere from 2 weeks or less prior to each period and improving dramatically as soon as menstruation occurs. Women who experience this will feel absolutely awful, often enraged, have trouble thinking clearly, and then within 24 hours of getting a period feel like themselves again, it is like a curtain suddenly lifted. PMDD responds well to low dose SSRIs and natural progesterone. Unfortunately availability of natural progesterone is limited in Thailand and most Thai doctors (even ob-gyns) do not understand the difference between synthetic progestins and natural progesterone,. So it is this phase of things that is harder to get properly managed in Thailand.

At and after actual menopause the problems shift to include hot flashes and vaginal dryness, the latter makes sex painful for women. Many Thai women are too embarrassed to discuss the problem and will try to avoid sex with their husbands. It's easily managed by topical estrogen creams or suppositories. Thai doctors do better at management of the menopausal symptoms than they do with PMDD, although they still tend to not recognize the difference between synthetic and bio-identical HRT.

Anyhow point is, there are effective treatments available. And if the problem is that the woman suddenly loses interest in/avoids sex, it may be because it is painful for her and that can easily be resolved.

[bunta71]

This thread is going to be a blood bath...

pun intended???

[bunta71]

My TGF is 23 this year, so I have years of exercise and happieness ahead. When thinking about leaving my ex wife I did take into account her approaching menopause years. Based that she was high maintenance already I did not want added menopause emotions as well. My worry now is keeping my TGF happy for the next 20 years. I might need some product to help me thinks.

As long as her new house is under construction,she will appear happy. That house can be that product...

[billd766]

My wife was 38 when our son was born and I was a mere lad of 60.

My Mum had me when she was 39 and my Dad was 54.

There is a 21 year age gap between me and my wife and a 15 year gap between my Mum and my Dad.

Is there supposed to be a big problem with the age gaps?

[billd766]

I suppose I could ask the same question about Farang-Farang marriages and the result owuld be a lot worse.

[bunta71]

Some women go through menopause with seemingly no great sets of problems... others seem cursed with horrible ups and downs (even lefts and rights). I try to remain civil about it as it is physiological / body chemical problem. But when the woman becomes Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde - with Bipolar - Manic-Depressive swings of behavior, becomes paranoid - well it just becomes too much - WAY too much. American women can get better medical attention with various drugs to help and it often works. The Thai women that I have known who had severe reactions to menopause do not seem to get good treatment. I don't think the disorder is well understood in a Western sense at all by Thai doctors. But bottom line on a daily basis living with a woman Thai or not who is getting the worst side of the menopausal hormonal imbalances - while I may feel sorry for her - I can't and won't live with her - Thai, American or who ever. I don't have five years of life to just throw away walking through a living mine field.

Exactly right. First of all, most Thai women do not know much about the physiology of menopause and that various related problems can be treated, so majority don't seek medical help. Adding to that, when they do, Thai doctors are not that well trained, although there are of course exceptions.

Need to understand that the issue is not only menopause but also the peri-menopause, the years prior to menopause (which can be as much as 10-15 years before it)

It is common for women to experience mood disorders during the peri-menopause, in particular PMDD (some unfortunate women experience that all their lives, but the incidence/severity definitely goes up greatly during the peri-menopause). This will manifest as irritability and even string bursts of rage and if one pays close attention will be found to occur cyclically, starting anywhere from 2 weeks or less prior to each period and improving dramatically as soon as menstruation occurs. Women who experience this will feel absolutely awful, often enraged, have trouble thinking clearly, and then within 24 hours of getting a period feel like themselves again, it is like a curtain suddenly lifted. PMDD responds well to low dose SSRIs and natural progesterone. Unfortunately availability of natural progesterone is limited in Thailand and most Thai doctors (even ob-gyns) do not understand the difference between synthetic progestins and natural progesterone,. So it is this phase of things that is harder to get properly managed in Thailand.

At and after actual menopause the problems shift to include hot flashes and vaginal dryness, the latter makes sex painful for women. Many Thai women are too embarrassed to discuss the problem and will try to avoid sex with their husbands. It's easily managed by topical estrogen creams or suppositories. Thai doctors do better at management of the menopausal symptoms than they do with PMDD, although they still tend to not recognize the difference between synthetic and bio-identical HRT.

Anyhow point is, there are effective treatments available. And if the problem is that the woman suddenly loses interest in/avoids sex, it may be because it is painful for her and that can easily be resolved.

Great post and also a reflection of what my wife is experiencing at the moment. I am sending off for some urine tests from amelika in order to get a truer snapshot of her hormone levels. I did take her to a drug pusher (regular M.D.) and the first words out of his mouth were " Do not try natural herbs, they do not work!). I told him we will address the cause of the hormonal balance instead of merely addressing the symptoms and thanked him for his time and advice. signed, Dr. Jack the quack

[Sheryl]

There is a bioidentical estrogen on the market in gel form, brand names oestrogel and Ginoderm. (also several in oral form but better to use topical and avoid the liver pass-through).

Can also get estrogen in bioidentical forumulation for vaginal use, brand name ovastin , if vaginal dryness/pain during sex or frequent UTIs an issue. Can be hard to source though. The widely used preparation found at any pharmacy is Premarin cream, it's horse estrogen not human, but for just topical use vaginally seems to do fine for many women.

Progesterone is more of a problem as no skin gels/creams on the market in LOS now. You can get a suppository for rectal or vaginal administration, brand name cyclogest, and a micronized oral form brand name utrogestan.

I'm told there are docs at the Bumrungrad anti-aging annex (Vita Life) who know their way around bioidentical HRT but likely to be expensive. I think they even compound their own progesterone cream.

[TommoPhysicist]

Some women go through menopause with seemingly no great sets of problems... others seem cursed with horrible ups and downs (even lefts and rights). I try to remain civil about it as it is physiological / body chemical problem. But when the woman becomes Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde - with Bipolar - Manic-Depressive swings of behavior, becomes paranoid - well it just becomes too much - WAY too much. American women can get better medical attention with various drugs to help and it often works. The Thai women that I have known who had severe reactions to menopause do not seem to get good treatment. I don't think the disorder is well understood in a Western sense at all by Thai doctors. But bottom line on a daily basis living with a woman Thai or not who is getting the worst side of the menopausal hormonal imbalances - while I may feel sorry for her - I can't and won't live with her - Thai, American or who ever. I don't have five years of life to just throw away walking through a living mine field.

While I agree with much you say, I would like to add

1) I don't believe many men or women (worldwide) understand the severity of the personality changes that can affect many menopausal women.

2) I don't believe many people understand that these changes, for a significant number of women, are permanent and irreversible.

3) These personality changes are NEVER for the better.

It's just something that is never discussed in our society, swept under the carped by everyone.

[Sheryl]

They are not often permanent and irreversible. but they can last well into say age 60, and as onset can be as early as 35 or 40, a long time period can be involved.

These are not permanent changes of personality but rather the effect of hormonal imbalances and related changes in neurotransmitters) CAN be effectively managed/treated.

[TommoPhysicist]

They are not often permanent and irreversible. but they can last well into say age 60, and as onset can be as early as 35 or 40, a long time period can be involved.

These are not permanent changes of personality but rather the effect of hormonal imbalances and related changes in neurotransmitters) CAN be effectively managed/treated.

Assuming you are correct and I am not (while not conceding that you are in fact correct).

If a man with theses sorts of mental problems of a few months duration were married to a woman, she would be entitled to divorce him by reasons of mental cruelty.

Why is a man then expected to endure it for up to 25 years?

And even if they can be treated, often the woman will claim there is nothing wrong with her and refuse all offers of help or treatment.

[David48]

menopausal women ... <snip>

3) These personality changes are NEVER for the better.

TP ... your personal observations are based on a sample size of how many women?

.

[bunta71]

There is a bioidentical estrogen on the market in gel form, brand names oestrogel and Ginoderm. (also several in oral form but better to use topical and avoid the liver pass-through).

Can also get estrogen in bioidentical forumulation for vaginal use, brand name ovastin , if vaginal dryness/pain during sex or frequent UTIs an issue. Can be hard to source though. The widely used preparation found at any pharmacy is Premarin cream, it's horse estrogen not human, but for just topical use vaginally seems to do fine for many women.

Progesterone is more of a problem as no skin gels/creams on the market in LOS now. You can get a suppository for rectal or vaginal administration, brand name cyclogest, and a micronized oral form brand name utrogestan.

I'm told there are docs at the Bumrungrad anti-aging annex (Vita Life) who know their way around bioidentical HRT but likely to be expensive. I think they even compound their own progesterone cream.

We are addressing the overall health of our gut flora in order to get to the root of these imbalances. After ingestion of antibiotics this can take up to two years to accomplish. Thanks for the info.

[ridge runner]

Yes been with my thai bride for 40+ years. The pause was just a break so I could reenergise. 4 child 3 grands and 1 great. Half here half in states. Thought abt trading her in a few years back but glad I didn't!

[vulcan903]

My TGF is 23 this year, so I have years of exercise and happieness ahead. When thinking about leaving my ex wife I did take into account her approaching menopause years. Based that she was high maintenance already I did not want added menopause emotions as well. My worry now is keeping my TGF happy for the next 20 years. I might need some product to help me this

how old are you, I'm guessing there is a serious age gap of epic proportions.

20 years.... odds are against us I guess, but its fun at the moment

[TommoPhysicist]

menopausal women ... <snip>

3) These personality changes are NEVER for the better.

TP ... your personal observations are based on a sample size of how many women?

.

Not my personal observation.

That comment came from a 60 year old female nurse (and close personal friend) who worked nearly all her working life in a NHS mental health unit and dealt with thousands of pre/during/post menopausal patients. I believe she specialised almost exclusively in 'women's problems'. I didn't believe her at the time, she gave me the hard facts straight. But her predictions on the developing course of my wife's 'illness' were scarily accurate, so in hindsight I have to admit she knew what she was talking about.

Edited March 9, 2013 by TommoPhysicist

[David48]

menopausal women ... <snip>

3) These personality changes are NEVER for the better.

TP ... your personal observations are based on a sample size of how many women?

.

Not my personal observation.

That comment came from a 60 year old female nurse (and close personal friend) who worked nearly all her working life in a NHS mental health unit and dealt with thousands of pre/during/post menopausal patients. I believe she specialised almost exclusively in 'women's problems'. I didn't believe her at the time, she gave me the hard facts straight. But her predictions on the developing course of my wife's 'illness' were scarily accurate, so in hindsight I have to admit she knew what she was talking about.

Puts the comment in a completely different light ...

I have no idea about this as I haven't had a partner of this age ... yet ... my time will come.

.

[meom]

The mrs went through menopause a couple of years ago.

I’m easy going so it didn’t affect me much except on the odd occasion when she burst out in a fit of rage or when she kicked me out of bed
at night to adjust the thermostat of the ac which had to go up or down depending upon the severity of her hot/cold flashes.

Down below she slowly dried up (and got a bit tighter) which meant sex took on a new dimension involving KY and the whole range of Durex
Play.

All in all things worked out fine and at 54 she’s still the woman I would like to get old with.

[Sheryl]

menopausal women ... <snip>

3) These personality changes are NEVER for the better.

TP ... your personal observations are based on a sample size of how many women?

.

Not my personal observation.

That comment came from a 60 year old female nurse (and close personal friend) who worked nearly all her working life in a NHS mental health unit and dealt with thousands of pre/during/post menopausal patients. I believe she specialised almost exclusively in 'women's problems'. I didn't believe her at the time, she gave me the hard facts straight. But her predictions on the developing course of my wife's 'illness' were scarily accurate, so in hindsight I have to admit she knew what she was talking about.

Sounds like more than the effectrs of menopause were involved i.e. your wife may have had a mental illness. It is not unusual for mental illnesses to first manifest (or to worsen to the point of being evident) during periods of hormonal imbalance e.g. adolescence and peri-menopause/menopause.

[Sheryl]

They are not often permanent and irreversible. but they can last well into say age 60, and as onset can be as early as 35 or 40, a long time period can be involved.

These are not permanent changes of personality but rather the effect of hormonal imbalances and related changes in neurotransmitters) CAN be effectively managed/treated.

Assuming you are correct and I am not (while not conceding that you are in fact correct).

If a man with theses sorts of mental problems of a few months duration were married to a woman, she would be entitled to divorce him by reasons of mental cruelty.

Why is a man then expected to endure it for up to 25 years?

And even if they can be treated, often the woman will claim there is nothing wrong with her and refuse all offers of help or treatment.

I don't think anyone is expecting a man to endure a severe version of this for 25 years in a scenario where the woman "refuses all offers of help and treatment." The point I was trying to make is that Thai women are not at all well informed on this matter and often do not know what is happening or that it can be treated and your average Thai GP won't necessarily be of much help either.

I personally know of farang-Thai matches where proper hormonal tx saved the relationship.

[rene123]

Thank you Sheryl for the valuable information. You are a gem. I'm REALLY not looking forward to menopause and it ain't in that far distant future (I'm 38) but I do intend to remain single, so I really won't be inflicting myself on anyone. I'll be able to suffer in peace.

[TommoPhysicist]

menopausal women ... <snip>

3) These personality changes are NEVER for the better.

TP ... your personal observations are based on a sample size of how many women?

.

Not my personal observation.

That comment came from a 60 year old female nurse (and close personal friend) who worked nearly all her working life in a NHS mental health unit and dealt with thousands of pre/during/post menopausal patients. I believe she specialised almost exclusively in 'women's problems'. I didn't believe her at the time, she gave me the hard facts straight. But her predictions on the developing course of my wife's 'illness' were scarily accurate, so in hindsight I have to admit she knew what she was talking about.

Sounds like more than the effectrs of menopause were involved i.e. your wife may have had a mental illness. It is not unusual for mental illnesses to first manifest (or to worsen to the point of being evident) during periods of hormonal imbalance e.g. adolescence and peri-menopause/menopause.

You may be right, but 'caused by' or 'initiated by', in the end doesn't really matter. The result is the same.

[transam]

menopausal women ... <snip>

3) These personality changes are NEVER for the better.

TP ... your personal observations are based on a sample size of how many women?

.

Not my personal observation.

That comment came from a 60 year old female nurse (and close personal friend) who worked nearly all her working life in a NHS mental health unit and dealt with thousands of pre/during/post menopausal patients. I believe she specialised almost exclusively in 'women's problems'. I didn't believe her at the time, she gave me the hard facts straight. But her predictions on the developing course of my wife's 'illness' were scarily accurate, so in hindsight I have to admit she knew what she was talking about.

Sounds like more than the effectrs of menopause were involved i.e. your wife may have had a mental illness. It is not unusual for mental illnesses to first manifest (or to worsen to the point of being evident) during periods of hormonal imbalance e.g. adolescence and peri-menopause/menopause.

My ex UK wife had exactly that. BUT, l could do nothing about it, even via her Consultant/surgeon.

[Sheryl]

The mrs went through menopause a couple of years ago.

I’m easy going so it didn’t affect me much except on the odd occasion when she burst out in a fit of rage or when she kicked me out of bed

at night to adjust the thermostat of the ac which had to go up or down depending upon the severity of her hot/cold flashes.

Down below she slowly dried up (and got a bit tighter) which meant sex took on a new dimension involving KY and the whole range of Durex

Play.

All in all things worked out fine and at 54 she’s still the woman I would like to get old with.

Do her (and yourself) a favor and pick up a tube of premarin cream at the pharmacy, be sure the insert is there (in Thai) so she can read what it is for.

[meom]

The mrs went through menopause a couple of years ago.

I’m easy going so it didn’t affect me much except on the odd occasion when she burst out in a fit of rage or when she kicked me out of bed

at night to adjust the thermostat of the ac which had to go up or down depending upon the severity of her hot/cold flashes.

Down below she slowly dried up (and got a bit tighter) which meant sex took on a new dimension involving KY and the whole range of Durex

Play.

All in all things worked out fine and at 54 she’s still the woman I would like to get old with.

Do her (and yourself) a favor and pick up a tube of premarin cream at the pharmacy, be sure the insert is there (in Thai) so she can read what it is for.

Thanks for the suggestion.

I had to google what it is and think maybe it's better to check with a doctor first before randomly applying this.

[Sheryl]

One should indeed consult a doctor before taking premarin tablets or any other form of systemic estrogen as there are potential risks and also some women have contraindications. . But the vaginal cream acts locally with little systemic effects and has not been associated with any of the adverse effects you may have read about if you googled just premarin. Suit yourself but any doctor will tell her to just go ahead with it

[JDGRUEN]

Some women go through menopause with seemingly no great sets of problems... others seem cursed with horrible ups and downs (even lefts and rights). I try to remain civil about it as it is physiological / body chemical problem. But when the woman becomes Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde - with Bipolar - Manic-Depressive swings of behavior, becomes paranoid - well it just becomes too much - WAY too much. American women can get better medical attention with various drugs to help and it often works. The Thai women that I have known who had severe reactions to menopause do not seem to get good treatment. I don't think the disorder is well understood in a Western sense at all by Thai doctors. But bottom line on a daily basis living with a woman Thai or not who is getting the worst side of the menopausal hormonal imbalances - while I may feel sorry for her - I can't and won't live with her - Thai, American or who ever. I don't have five years of life to just throw away walking through a living mine field.

Exactly right. First of all, most Thai women do not know much about the physiology of menopause and that various related problems can be treated, so majority don't seek medical help. Adding to that, when they do, Thai doctors are not that well trained, although there are of course exceptions.

Need to understand that the issue is not only menopause but also the peri-menopause, the years prior to menopause (which can be as much as 10-15 years before it)

It is common for women to experience mood disorders during the peri-menopause, in particular PMDD (some unfortunate women experience that all their lives, but the incidence/severity definitely goes up greatly during the peri-menopause). This will manifest as irritability and even string bursts of rage and if one pays close attention will be found to occur cyclically, starting anywhere from 2 weeks or less prior to each period and improving dramatically as soon as menstruation occurs. Women who experience this will feel absolutely awful, often enraged, have trouble thinking clearly, and then within 24 hours of getting a period feel like themselves again, it is like a curtain suddenly lifted. PMDD responds well to low dose SSRIs and natural progesterone. Unfortunately availability of natural progesterone is limited in Thailand and most Thai doctors (even ob-gyns) do not understand the difference between synthetic progestins and natural progesterone,. So it is this phase of things that is harder to get properly managed in Thailand.

At and after actual menopause the problems shift to include hot flashes and vaginal dryness, the latter makes sex painful for women. Many Thai women are too embarrassed to discuss the problem and will try to avoid sex with their husbands. It's easily managed by topical estrogen creams or suppositories. Thai doctors do better at management of the menopausal symptoms than they do with PMDD, although they still tend to not recognize the difference between synthetic and bio-identical HRT.

Anyhow point is, there are effective treatments available. And if the problem is that the woman suddenly loses interest in/avoids sex, it may be because it is painful for her and that can easily be resolved.

Great post and also a reflection of what my wife is experiencing at the moment. I am sending off for some urine tests from amelika in order to get a truer snapshot of her hormone levels. I did take her to a drug pusher (regular M.D.) and the first words out of his mouth were " Do not try natural herbs, they do not work!). I told him we will address the cause of the hormonal balance instead of merely addressing the symptoms and thanked him for his time and advice. signed, Dr. Jack the quack

Soy Iso flavone capsules are supposed to provide natural estrogens ... they are sold heavily in the USA - over the counter.

[andrew]

@ sheryl

Thanks very much for your input.

I don't have time to read everything right now -- I'll bookmark this thread and then come back to read it all when I'm a bit less busy.

Have a great weekend!