The Bht, The Inflaton And Your Lt-Visa

[swissie]

Next to the daily "run of the mill" questions, us frangs may have to prepare for possible "things to come".

- The required bank-balance for retirement/marriage-visas (800'00 vs 400'000 Bht.) have been in place for ages. (disregarding inflation and an ever appreciating Bht.)

So it is only a matter of time until these benchmarks will be raised, Depending on how much those 2 benchmarks will be raised, it could pose a problem for a good number of farangs, as far as compliance with the new numbers is concerned, when it boils down to a long-term visa situation and it's financial backing.

For farangs with unlimited financial resources this is certainly of little interest. But for all others it may be worth a thought.

Cheers.

[Cuchulainn]

_{It may be a good time (or excuse) to raise the levels from B400k to half a million and B800k to the big mill!! Nice round figures!! Wouldn't surprise me.}

[lopburi3]

Actually the financials for retirement changed about 15 years ago so it has not been ages (for those of us of an age where it matters). Previously there was one requirement for age 60 (200k/20k) and a higher requirment for age 55 of (500k/50k) and those under these provisions were grandfathered.

[ThaidDown]

The current amounts required for 1 year extensions were put in place around 1998/9, previous to that they were 400,000/200,000 for retirement/marriage.

They were increased, I believe, since the Baht had weakened so much after 1997.

Since the Baht is much stronger now than in 1998/9 I believe that it is unlikely that they will be increased any time soon. Look long enough into the future then of course they will go up. Grandfathering in , as lopburi3 says, has always been allowed. Yes I remember the old differences of only requiring half the money when you got to 60, and of course no retirement until 55, was on Marriage then as was too young !!

[ignis]

As the price is almost double to what it was 10 years ago, cannot think it can go up more... already thousand's here that can no longer meet the (800'000 vs 400'000 Bht.)

10 years ago I got 74 baht to 1 GBP

today is 44 baht to 1x GBP

Pensions that were well within the Visa Extension Min required, is now well below what is required.....

[swissie]

The current amounts required for 1 year extensions were put in place around 1998/9, previous to that they were 400,000/200,000 for retirement/marriage.

They were increased, I believe, since the Baht had weakened so much after 1997.

Since the Baht is much stronger now than in 1998/9 I believe that it is unlikely that they will be increased any time soon. Look long enough into the future then of course they will go up. Grandfathering in , as lopburi3 says, has always been allowed. Yes I remember the old differences of only requiring half the money when you got to 60, and of course no retirement until 55, was on Marriage then as was too young !!

The other way around! If the Bht gets stronger, the less THB one receives for any given amount of "foreign-currency".

This benchmark is a measure of " how much THAI-Baht a farang needs to support himself (and Thai-Family)". Prices have quadrupled in the last 15 years. So the ratio of 800'000/400'000 Bht is way out of line on the downside. (like it or not: Will eventually be adjusted "upwards", to reflect actual price-developements.).

The term "Grandfathering-Rights" may apply to many segments of Thai-Juristriction. But in case of the farang. not beeing able to comply with certain "new rules" regarding his legal stay in Thailand, it may be of complete irrelevance I am afraid.

Cheers.

[nevets]

SO what happens when the falang says to the Thai wife and extended family, i am off because your government has made it so that i can not afford to live here anymore sadly.

[Jingthing]

Based on my understanding, the PREVIOUS allowance of GRANDFATHERING on old levels has been completely honored. That would indicate any future financial level increases would likely be GRANDFATHERED as well and honored as well. That doesn't mean there is guarantee but my overall impression of the OP is that it is a bit of a scaremongering topic.

[chiang mai]

These repeat threads on the same subject (but slightly different) are a sign of people's unease and nervousness, bottom line is that if anyone factored their retirement plans here based on anything higher than 50 per Pound they are in for a shock, the more prudent will simply have to sit it all out, still sad for some neverthtless.

[theoldgit]

SO what happens when the falang says to the Thai wife and extended family, i am off because your government has made it so that i can not afford to live here anymore sadly.

The scenario could be, in the case of those from the UK, that one spouse could be forced to leave Thailand as they didn't meet the financial requirements for an extension of stay if the levels were raised. It could also be possible that a British national would be unable to get a Settlement Visa for their spouse to live in the UK as they didn't meet the income for a settlement visa.

This is all what if and pure speculation at this stage.

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

[Pib]

SO what happens when the falang says to the Thai wife and extended family, i am off because your government has made it so that i can not afford to live here anymore sadly.

But you and the family could afford to live in your home country? If it's a western country I doubt the cost of living is lower, but I will admit other factors such as govt funded health care or possible ease in getting a full time/part time job to supplement the retirement income (without the need of a work permit) could tip the balance in the cost analysis.

Edited March 9, 2013 by Pib

[chiang mai]

SO what happens when the falang says to the Thai wife and extended family, i am off because your government has made it so that i can not afford to live here anymore sadly.

But you and the family could afford to live in your home country? If it's a western country I doubt the cost of living is lower, but I will admit other factors such as govt funded health care or possible ease in getting a full time/part time job to supplement the retirement income (without the need of a work permit) could tip the balance in the cost analysis.

Exactly, I'm in the UK presently and by comparison I find the cost of living here eye wateringly expensive in some areas. At least in Thailand it's possible to eat healthy nutrious food inexpensively, food in the UK as far as I can see is neither of those things - the other factor of course is the weather which in the UK at present is torid, there's no wonder that so many people here suffer from depression, the cold grey drizzle seems to destroy the soul and I've only been here for 10 days.

[MAJIC]

It's best not to tempt the powers that be with this kind of speculation,concerning money in the Bank Visas.

[MAJIC]

SO what happens when the falang says to the Thai wife and extended family, i am off because your government has made it so that i can not afford to live here anymore sadly.

The scenario could be, in the case of those from the UK, that one spouse could be forced to leave Thailand as they didn't meet the financial requirements for an extension of stay if the levels were raised. It could also be possible that a British national would be unable to get a Settlement Visa for their spouse to live in the UK as they didn't meet the income for a settlement visa.

This is all what if and pure speculation at this stage.

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

As you say pure speculation,and a waste of time,as if expats don't have enough to worry about with a poor exchange rate already.

[givenall]

the question should be what do you really need to live comfortably regardless what the immigration says. I myself think you need 100k a month to live here

[RKASA]

Que Sera, Sera,

Whatever will be, will be

The future's not ours, to see

Que Sera, Sera

What will be, will be.

We can all option a move to Cambodia - I hear they are getting 4G before Thailand will anyway.

[ThaidDown]

The current amounts required for 1 year extensions were put in place around 1998/9, previous to that they were 400,000/200,000 for retirement/marriage.

They were increased, I believe, since the Baht had weakened so much after 1997.

Since the Baht is much stronger now than in 1998/9 I believe that it is unlikely that they will be increased any time soon. Look long enough into the future then of course they will go up. Grandfathering in , as lopburi3 says, has always been allowed. Yes I remember the old differences of only requiring half the money when you got to 60, and of course no retirement until 55, was on Marriage then as was too young !!

The other way around! If the Bht gets stronger, the less THB one receives for any given amount of "foreign-currency".

This benchmark is a measure of " how much THAI-Baht a farang needs to support himself (and Thai-Family)". Prices have quadrupled in the last 15 years. So the ratio of 800'000/400'000 Bht is way out of line on the downside. (like it or not: Will eventually be adjusted "upwards", to reflect actual price-developements.).

The term "Grandfathering-Rights" may apply to many segments of Thai-Juristriction. But in case of the farang. not beeing able to comply with certain "new rules" regarding his legal stay in Thailand, it may be of complete irrelevance I am afraid.

Cheers.

The fact that you receive less Baht for a certain amount of USD/GBP etc only means that you have to have a higher income in those terms to satisfy the requirements. As you say the amount of Baht needed is the deciding factor. If the Baht levels were increased then an even higher USD/GBP amount would be needed, so in my view it's not 'the other way round'.

The levels were increased in 1988/89 because the Foreign currency amount required had about halved from pre 97 levels so in Immigrations view had become too cheap.

Although some prices of some items in certain areas may have gone up 4 fold in the last 15 years the cost of living, in my view, has certainly not.

[ignis]

the question should be what do you really need to live comfortably regardless what the immigration says. I myself think you need 100k a month to live here

Everyone is different........... Myself could not even think how to spend 100 k a month........ then the house is paid for, as is the car and the new Truck,, so I can live very comfortably for less then 25,000 baht month

On the other side there is a English guy that rent a nice fully furnished 2 bed detached bungalow @ 4,500 baht a month a few Villages away, another that rent a Condo in BKK @ 75,000 baht a month, so yes he would need 100 k + per month..

Many live in Villages, when prices are far cheaper then Cities

Beats me the logic of a single OAP must have 65,000 baht per month, yet a married couple only need 40,000 baht, yes i know the saying 2 can live as cheap as one, but that is silly that 2 can live far cheaper.

Edited March 9, 2013 by ignis

[Ticketmaster]

Beats me the logic of a single OAP must have 65,000 baht per month, yet a married couple only need 40,000 baht, yes i know the saying 2 can live as cheap as one, but that is silly that 2 can live far cheaper.

The single OAP needs a large percentage of his monthly income reserved to pay for the rental of female company, while the married couple does not have this expense. Therein lies the difference.

[Markaew]

IMO...

I think that the monetary pressure that the government imposes on foreigners with a non-o (or similar) to stay in Thailand is just a way to force you down a different path to accomplish what you want. This is the land of corruption and IF following the law is too painful by design you pay not to follow the law. The government doesn't really make money on your large deposit in a Thai bank but it does make money when you pay not to follow the law.

[Markaew]

Beats me the logic of a single OAP must have 65,000 baht per month, yet a married couple only need 40,000 baht, yes i know the saying 2 can live as cheap as one, but that is silly that 2 can live far cheaper.

The single OAP needs a large percentage of his monthly income reserved to pay for the rental of female company, while the married couple does not have this expense. Therein lies the difference.

I disagree. Although you may have said that in jest, It cost more to be married than single.

[NeverSure]

You can spend 30k or less, or 300k or more. It's no different than anywhere else. As for the deposit and/or income, I hope not too many are borderline. I can see not having the income requirement and doing fine, but I don't understand why someone would retire to Thailand and not have more than 800,000 baht in the bank. I feel I need quite a bit more than that for my "health insurance."

I do know there are guys on the edge, and I hold nothing against them. I hope they don't get priced out.

[Robby nz]

I did some numbers last year and worked out that it was easier to have 800kb in a Thai bank on some sort of term deposit getting a bit of interest than having to go to the trouble of proving income each year.

I lose a bit of interest compared to what I would get on TD in NZ by doing this.

But now all I have to do is copy the bank book and get a letter from the bank rather than having to get all the papers together proving income and go to the embassy to get them stamped.

This then allows me to work my spending around my income which goes into a NZ bank and transfer to my Thai bank as needed.

Of course I don't have the same problem as you Brits, Yanks etc because the NZ$ is stable against the Baht but should it drop I do have the option of adjusting my lifestyle to suit income without worrying about funds for visa.

There is also the aspect of having a fall back fund in this country that I can call on if I have a dire emergency.

[ubonjoe]

Looking at a graph of the NZ$ to baht it appears to me that it has had the same downward trend as the US$.

IE: 25.44 bhat on Dec. 17 to 24.2 baht this past Friday. Source: http://www.bangkokbank.com/BangkokBank/WebServices/Rates/Pages/FX_Rates.aspx#

[notmyself]

Although some prices of some items in certain areas may have gone up 4 fold in the last 15 years the cost of living, in my view, has certainly not.

Certainly over the last 4 years, my monthly outgoings have gradually decreased. There is the odd blip around Songkran for example but the general trend has been downward. I put it down to greater knowledge, greater friends and greater use of the barter system.

[davejones]

the question should be what do you really need to live comfortably regardless what the immigration says. I myself think you need 100k a month to live here

Everyone is different........... Myself could not even think how to spend 100 k a month........ then the house is paid for, as is the car and the new Truck,, so I can live very comfortably for less then 25,000 baht month

On the other side there is a English guy that rent a nice fully furnished 2 bed detached bungalow @ 4,500 baht a month a few Villages away, another that rent a Condo in BKK @ 75,000 baht a month, so yes he would need 100 k + per month..

Many live in Villages, when prices are far cheaper then Cities

Beats me the logic of a single OAP must have 65,000 baht per month, yet a married couple only need 40,000 baht, yes i know the saying 2 can live as cheap as one, but that is silly that 2 can live far cheaper.

The marriage amount is probably lower for compassionate reasons. The single person amount is probably set at 65,000 per month because they want to attract retirees with at least a moderate amount of money to spend here. They don't want a bunch of cheap Charles coming to live here. Set the amount too low and they would be flooded with undesirables. They already have enough of those.

[davejones]

Beats me the logic of a single OAP must have 65,000 baht per month, yet a married couple only need 40,000 baht, yes i know the saying 2 can live as cheap as one, but that is silly that 2 can live far cheaper.

The single OAP needs a large percentage of his monthly income reserved to pay for the rental of female company, while the married couple does not have this expense. Therein lies the difference.

I disagree. Although you may have said that in jest, It cost more to be married than single.

I don't agree. Married couples usually have two incomes, so can share rent and other expenses. Throughout my life I've also spent more at times when I was single. This is true of everyone I know. I don't know how it's possible to spend more being married, unless you're married to someone who wants to be unemployed. I think in a marriage that both people should contribute. And that is what happens with nearly every single couple I know, even here in Thailand.

Edited March 10, 2013 by davejones

[Markaew]

Beats me the logic of a single OAP must have 65,000 baht per month, yet a married couple only need 40,000 baht, yes i know the saying 2 can live as cheap as one, but that is silly that 2 can live far cheaper.

The single OAP needs a large percentage of his monthly income reserved to pay for the rental of female company, while the married couple does not have this expense. Therein lies the difference.

I disagree. Although you may have said that in jest, It cost more to be married than single.

I don't agree. Married couples usually have two incomes, so can share rent and other expenses. Throughout my life I've also spent more at times when I was single. This is true of everyone I know. I don't know how it's possible to spend more being married, unless you're married to someone who wants to be unemployed. I think in a marriage that both people should contribute. And that is what happens with nearly every single couple I know, even here in Thailand.

Yes, and I disagree with you as well. In a western environment that may be true but in Thailand the wife quite often doesn't work. If you have a typical Thai wife, even if she works she is asking for more money.

[davejones]

Most married couples I know in Thailand share the expenses, and both work. There is no reason to have a wife that doesn't work - unless you have enough money and you are happy to look after her. Also, the vast majority (95%+) of Thai woman that I know have careers and want to work. There is no reason for ti to be different here to in the West.

[ignis]

Somehow gone a bit off Topic last few posts. Working ?. Both working ?........... ...

We were talking about 65,000 a month or 800 k in the Bank for the RETIREMENT Extension, whereas a Married retired person need just 40,000 per month or 400 k in Bank for the Extension..