Ever Been Told To Leave A Thai-Owned Shop ?

[DiNiro]

I was shunned away by the Accuphase HiFi dealer. Probably because the way I dressed.

Was he surprised when I later walked past with a truckload (600,000Bt) of gear from the Mcintosh dealer I wonder?

Dumbshit.

[FunFon]

The fact that I said most in the country were unsophisticated, is not an insult. I believe it to be a fact. That does not mean they are not kind hearted, generous, and lovely people. Just that they may not be aware of the nuances of the western mind, and what our expectations are, about how they should behave, or treat us. That is all.

-

"Should" in what sense?

Why on earth should be we treated the way we expect to be treated?

If you're saying it's a poor customer service attitude and they'll lose some business as a result, I'm sure they're aware of that and are willing to pay the price.

Perhaps in the long run it will threaten the survival of their business, but that's their problem, I'm sure you'd see that as a good thing anyway.

Many many many people that own run businesses here don't run their business in a way that optimises their sales and profits; they seem to care about their own comfort and convenience, face, pride whatever a lot more.

And that's their prerogative, it is their business, the attitude is that the customer should be grateful when they deign to allow you to patronize their shop, never the other way around.

Just swallow your stupid pride and shop somewhere else, or if you really don't have any choice, come back some other time or dress nicer or whatever it takes, but really, no reason to treat it as a moral issue much less a legal one, TiT, it is what it is and stop whinging about it expecting things to operate the way you're used to!

[spidermike007]

Just seen this thread and would like to give a little more detail. Firstly, having done several years of business in Yaowarat, I know what the elderly Chinese Thais can be like. Difficult, rude, unhelpful and sometimes racist. Until they know you and you prove you spend money. And then they're just a little bit less of the aforementioned...a long as you're spending money. The Thais that I've worked with see it too and there are nicknames given to the shopkeepers in Thai which associate them with these negative stereotypical traits.

High End Audio was in the Hi Fi Centre opposite Central World until the building closed down, and some shops from there moved back to Amarin Plaza opposite Gaysorn. High End audio strangely enough moved to a high floor of MBK next to all the furniture shops. 99% of these shop's customers will be Thai, but I do know some expats and other Asian expats who have bought off them. No doubt some of them get tourists who come in to browse with no intention of buying...but hey....have a shop in a tourist shopping centre like Paragon or MBK and expect it. No doubt many Asian customers will come in dressed casually but actually be rich.

The floor of MBK was quiet when I went there and two guys who polishing £18,000 Focal Utopia speakers which may have recently arrived. Old lady was sitting in a chair in the middle of the room watching them. You know when you get a feeling you're not welcome and something like that will happen when you look at their face...that's what I had. I hadn't even got the door 5 inches open when I got waved away. The guys (one of which is the late 20-something owner) looked up then back to their polishing..no words. The Chinese lady looked back at them. So I opened it more asked if they were closed (the sign said open, the door was not locked, it was 3pm). I just wanted a reason. She couldn't speak English but just kept waving me out franticly as if I was a possible thief entering a gold shop. One of the guys then had to answer and said "yes, closed" before looking away, to which I said "oh, that's a shame because I was interested in some Focals you've got". No reply, no visual. Shocked and disappointed by this, not least because I talked with the guy 2 years ago at the hifi show, although he didn't remember this.

Money is the only objective, without first thinking that any browser could potentially be customer. Customer service or politeness don't come into it. In some other shops (like Audio Excellence and Piyanas) it does. I felt like contacting Focal, Accuphase and Verity...their 3 biggest brands...to convey my disappointment at being shooed away rudely, but then they might consider it a waste of time to communicate this as they know foreigners in Bangkok make up a tiny proportion of their wholesale profits. So instead I wrote on Hi End Audio's Facebook wall (which you can see) and got a quick apology from the young guy who on that day was quick to judge. He invited me to the hifi show once again, but the damage was done. I also implied that he should keep his Mama away from customers.

Great post. It is up to us, to patronize kind people, who care about their customers, and treat us with respect, or to support dinosaurs like this lady, who know nothing about anything, are arrogant beyond description, and have no real skills as a merchant, especially when it comes to customer service. All she really has is a bunch of cash. Internet humiliation is a good place to start. Call them out. Let it be known they are breaking every rule of civility. Why give her our business? Shun them at every opportunity. There are plenty of shops that are smart enough, competent enough, and willing to cater to our needs. I avoid shops like this, like I would the plague. Patronize the good ones.

[FunFon]

spidermike007, on 20 Mar 2013 - 08:32, said:

Great post. It is up to us, to patronize kind people, who care about their customers, and treat us with respect, or to support dinosaurs like this lady, who know nothing about anything, are arrogant beyond description, and have no real skills as a merchant, especially when it comes to customer service. All she really has is a bunch of cash.

- Why give her our business? Shun them at every opportunity. There are plenty of shops that are smart enough, competent enough, and willing to cater to our needs. I avoid shops like this, like I would the plague. Patronize the good ones.

-

Completely agree with all of the above as factual truth, but don't understand the emotional content - for me I find it much more productive to just accept the situation and realize "up to her!" - remember many such business people just have a shop as a hobby, for face, don't actually need it to be profitable.

spidermike007, on 20 Mar 2013 - 08:32, said:

Internet humiliation is a good place to start. Call them out. Let it be known they are breaking every rule of civility.

-

As long as you are careful to avoid the possible consequences of this, as this kind of activity/speech is illegal in Thailand, not just libel/slander civil action but punishable with fines and jail time.

Not to mention all the extra-judicial courses of action available to Thais with "a bunch of cash" if they know where you live.

You may know all this yourself already, just thought I'd put the warning out there for those who may not.

Even private conversations, say over the phone.

And the fact that you're simply relating facts and everything you say is true is no defense, the crime is passing on information that could harm the person or business' reputation.

Which is why specifically naming businesses in such threads is usually not allowed here. . .

Edited March 20, 2013 by FunFon

[FDog]

in Australia, I'd get the Police involved.

. . . and they'd tell you to take a hike. What on earth makes you think this is a criminal matter?

Because it is against the law to refuse service for certain reasons. Call the police and they will come and you make a report.

And therein begins the civil procedure.

Not quite correct . . . she has the right to refuse service, for certain reasons. Taking a statement and file a report is all the cops can do.

Then what? Go to court? You'd lose as she can make up a story to suit the occasion . . . and can then get you for harassment, defamation, nuisance etc . . .

Isn't it great to know both sides of the story!

From your statement I don't think you should be trying to get legal on me.

Of course a person can refuse service for certain reasons. That's not what I said. They cannot be refused service for certain reasons. You file a police report. The licencsing authority issues the fines etc, not the court.

The court would only be used in certain circumstances, such as it being race based.

I have never heard of any complainant being being done for harrassment, defamation, nuisance in relation to a failed complaint. Do you have any links?

No comment further from me though as it is way off topic.

[kevvy]

My old girlfriend got banned from Foodland in Pattaya. Yes to both meanings of old. I never met a Thai person who got banned from Foodland before. I considered it quite an accomplishment. I'd tell all the drunks on Soi BuaKhow and they would all nod in amazement. No one had ever met a person who had been banned from Foodland.

what did she do to be banned .... i am wondering .

She got in a lot of late night bar fights at Issan clubs and it was after I bailed her out one morning and we were having breakfast at Took Lai De she got in an altercation with the cooks. It was the from the chair directly to the right of the gentleman with suspenders in the photo that she leaped over the counter. Spry old girl she was.

now i understand "old girlfriend"

[kevvy]

TO FDOG

i can just imagine you going to the police station and say ."please officer the shop down the road did not want to serve me "next you will ask them to tuck you in at night time .

[MrWorldwide]

TO FDOG

i can just imagine you going to the police station and say ."please officer the shop down the road did not want to serve me "next you will ask them to tuck you in at night time .

Kevvy, the whole 'get the Police involved thing' was my reference to what I would say to Chinese shop owner in Sydney who refused to serve me for no apparent reason - as several have pointed out, Thailand isnt Sydney and I accept that. Any chance we could move on, or would you rather just continue mocking those of us who accept that some countries dont allow blatant discrimination on the basis of race ? The tourist Police in Pattaya intervene constantly in disputes between bars and patrons, but clearly it wouldnt happen at 3pm in CentralWorld - I get that.

Given that I started this thread hoping to elicit a few 'yeah, it happens, but mai pen rai' or 'no, never happened to me' responses, some of the agendas in this thread have just totally blindsided me - live and learn. Anything that gives people an avenue for Thai bashing clearly isnt a good idea.

[FunFon]

. . .

, or would you rather just continue mocking those of us who accept that some countries don't allow blatant discrimination on the basis of race

-

As long as it's clear that Thailand does allow such discrimination, and that many here accept that fact even if they're not racist themselves don't want to live somewhere that does interfere at that level.

The powers that be in Pattaya are in effect the meta-landlord for the whole territory, and get involved in such matters simply trying to keep the levels of drunken violence down. . .

[FDog]

TO FDOG

i can just imagine you going to the police station and say ."please officer the shop down the road did not want to serve me "next you will ask them to tuck you in at night time .

How strange. But yes, if you are a minority in Aus aka Aborigine you sometimes get refused service simply because you are black.

Should they not lodge a complaint? or should they just lay down and take it up the ass.

[Scottythai]

In australia do shop owners not have the right to refuse to serve? Wow not like Canada then funny how 2 common wealth nations are different like that

-

A sign in a French-speaker's shop saying "no English speakers please" would be OK?

Not sure it might go against discrimination. But the shop owner could shoo out anyone they want. Arilines do it when they deem people unable to fly. Infact I know this happens in Australia. I know a guy in B.C. who shoos out students from his shop due to them just browsing all the time. Depends I think but though I would be asddeded if I was shoo'd out of a shop it would be the owners call.

[metisdead]

Way off topic posts and replies have been removed.

[spidermike007]

spidermike007, on 20 Mar 2013 - 08:32, said:

Great post. It is up to us, to patronize kind people, who care about their customers, and treat us with respect, or to support dinosaurs like this lady, who know nothing about anything, are arrogant beyond description, and have no real skills as a merchant, especially when it comes to customer service. All she really has is a bunch of cash.

- Why give her our business? Shun them at every opportunity. There are plenty of shops that are smart enough, competent enough, and willing to cater to our needs. I avoid shops like this, like I would the plague. Patronize the good ones.

-

Completely agree with all of the above as factual truth, but don't understand the emotional content - for me I find it much more productive to just accept the situation and realize "up to her!" - remember many such business people just have a shop as a hobby, for face, don't actually need it to be profitable.

>spidermike007, on 20 Mar 2013 - 08:32, said:

Internet humiliation is a good place to start. Call them out. Let it be known they are breaking every rule of civility.

-

As long as you are careful to avoid the possible consequences of this, as this kind of activity/speech is illegal in Thailand, not just libel/slander civil action but punishable with fines and jail time.

Not to mention all the extra-judicial courses of action available to Thais with "a bunch of cash" if they know where you live.

You may know all this yourself already, just thought I'd put the warning out there for those who may not.

Even private conversations, say over the phone.

And the fact that you're simply relating facts and everything you say is true is no defense, the crime is passing on information that could harm the person or business' reputation.

Which is why specifically naming businesses in such threads is usually not allowed here. . .

Yes, but that is why it is so wonderful to see a business called out. The laws are there for a reason. And perhaps the reason has nothing to do with fairness, as is often the case. So, it takes a man of courage to not cower to these ridiculous, and fabulously petty laws, meant to protect who, or what? We must be bold, and not give in to cowardice. That is exactly what incompetent merchants like her are expecting. Cowards.

[Sing_Sling]

spidermike007, on 20 Mar 2013 - 08:32, said:

Great post. It is up to us, to patronize kind people, who care about their customers, and treat us with respect, or to support dinosaurs like this lady, who know nothing about anything, are arrogant beyond description, and have no real skills as a merchant, especially when it comes to customer service. All she really has is a bunch of cash.

- Why give her our business? Shun them at every opportunity. There are plenty of shops that are smart enough, competent enough, and willing to cater to our needs. I avoid shops like this, like I would the plague. Patronize the good ones.

-

Completely agree with all of the above as factual truth, but don't understand the emotional content - for me I find it much more productive to just accept the situation and realize "up to her!" - remember many such business people just have a shop as a hobby, for face, don't actually need it to be profitable.

>spidermike007, on 20 Mar 2013 - 08:32, said:

Internet humiliation is a good place to start. Call them out. Let it be known they are breaking every rule of civ

ility.

-

As long as you are careful to avoid the possible consequences of this, as this kind of activity/speech is illegal in Thailand, not just libel/slander civil action but punishable with fines and jail time.

Not to mention all the extra-judicial courses of action available to Thais with "a bunch of cash" if they know where you live.

You may know all this yourself already, just thought I'd put the warning out there for those who may not.

Even private conversations, say over the phone.

And the fact that you're simply relating facts and everything you say is true is no defense, the crime is passing on information that could harm the person or business' reputation.

Which is why specifically naming businesses in such threads is usually not allowed here. . .

Yes, but that is why it is so wonderful to see a business called out. The laws are there for a reason. And perhaps the reason has nothing to do with fairness, as is often the case. So, it takes a man of courage to not cower to these ridiculous, and fabulously petty laws, meant to protect who, or what? We must be bold, and not give in to cowardice. That is exactly what incompetent merchants like her are expecting. Cowards.

And it could all be utter BS, coming from someone with an ax to grind against the shop/owner.

Not saying it is, but seeing as we are only hearing/reading one side of the story . . .

[Sing_Sling]

TO FDOG

i can just imagine you going to the police station and say ."please officer the shop down the road did not want to serve me "next you will ask them to tuck you in at night time .

Kevvy, the whole 'get the Police involved thing' was my reference to what I would say to Chinese shop owner in Sydney who refused to serve me for no apparent reason - as several have pointed out, Thailand isnt Sydney and I accept that. Any chance we could move on, or would you rather just continue mocking those of us who accept that some countries dont allow blatant discrimination on the basis of race ? The tourist Police in Pattaya intervene constantly in disputes between bars and patrons, but clearly it wouldnt happen at 3pm in CentralWorld - I get that.

Given that I started this thread hoping to elicit a few 'yeah, it happens, but mai pen rai' or 'no, never happened to me' responses, some of the agendas in this thread have just totally blindsided me - live and learn. Anything that gives people an avenue for Thai bashing clearly isnt a good idea.

And yet again, service can be refused based on many reasons . . . if the old biddy simply didn't like you then she could concoct a story for the cops (which you have brought in to show the old cow what's what, of course).

You take it further . . . so can she.

(My wife is a lawyer, accredited both in Oz and NZ - not Thailand, so despite protestations to the contrary . . . you could end up getting screwed trying to be all self-righteous)

[FunFon]

And yet again, service can be refused based on many reasons . . . if the old biddy simply didn't like you then she could concoct a story for the cops

Not that the cops would even come along unless you paid them to, but say they did.

The lady could simply say, I didn't want to serve him because I don't like his face, I was in a bad mood, whatever and of course that's her prerogative, totally within her rights, nothing wrong with that, up to her!

IMO true anywhere in the world, and if not then I wouldn't want to live there. It's her business, customers don't have a "right" to be serviced if the owner doesn't feel like it.

And certainly not in Thailand anyway.

[trompelemonde]

I've never been told to leave a Thai owned shop. The closest I've been was with the legendary owner of 'Mr. Balance' in Panthip Plaza who is so jaw-droppingly obnoxious with his customers that you would really love to thump him in the bracket.

However, myself and a group of others were thrown out of a camera shop in Singapore for the terrible offence of window shopping.

[kevvy]

TO FDOG

i can just imagine you going to the police station and say ."please officer the shop down the road did not want to serve me "next you will ask them to tuck you in at night time .

How strange. But yes, if you are a minority in Aus aka Aborigine you sometimes get refused service simply because you are black.

Should they not lodge a complaint? or should they just lay down and take it up the ass.

now you are bring race into it. and you are wrong because it is discrimination in Australia to refuse service because you are black.and shops know what will happen if they refuse a aborigine , the press will have a field day . i have been to aborigine towns up on the gulf so i know they are treated ok. i was there in 1990 for 3 months and had a great time . at no time i seen them refused to be serve in any shop . maybe the pub if they had too much to drink

[FDog]

TO FDOG

i can just imagine you going to the police station and say ."please officer the shop down the road did not want to serve me "next you will ask them to tuck you in at night time .

How strange. But yes, if you are a minority in Aus aka Aborigine you sometimes get refused service simply because you are black.

Should they not lodge a complaint? or should they just lay down and take it up the ass.

now you are bring race into it. and you are wrong because it is discrimination in Australia to refuse service because you are black.and shops know what will happen if they refuse a aborigine , the press will have a field day . i have been to aborigine towns up on the gulf so i know they are treated ok. i was there in 1990 for 3 months and had a great time . at no time i seen them refused to be serve in any shop . maybe the pub if they had too much to drink

Here is a link to an aborigine refused a cab ride. Some years ago there was also the Yothu Yindi lead singer refused entrance to a hotel in St Kilda and the management had to apologise etc etc. These are only made public because of who the people are. I'm sure there is a lot that is not reported.

So no, they cannot just refuse service for any reason.

http://www.news.com.au/national-news/victoria/top-musician-geoffrey-gurrumul-yunupingu-a-victim-of-racism-after-being-refused-cab-outside-palais-theatre-in-st-kilda/story-fndo4cq1-1226530387285

Edited March 21, 2013 by FDog

[FDog]

I was simply pointing out that in Oz you just can't refuse service for anything.

Anyway, back to Thailand. I wouldn't be worried too much if refused service. I would go to the next shop and buy my goodies and make sure that I went passed the other shop pointing at my purchases with a big grin.

But that's just the child in me wanting to have fun.

[kevvy]

TO FDOG

i can just imagine you going to the police station and say ."please officer the shop down the road did not want to serve me "next you will ask them to tuck you in at night time .

Kevvy, the whole 'get the Police involved thing' was my reference to what I would say to Chinese shop owner in Sydney who refused to serve me for no apparent reason - as several have pointed out, Thailand isnt Sydney and I accept that. Any chance we could move on, or would you rather just continue mocking those of us who accept that some countries dont allow blatant discrimination on the basis of race ? The tourist Police in Pattaya intervene constantly in disputes between bars and patrons, but clearly it wouldnt happen at 3pm in CentralWorld - I get that.

Given that I started this thread hoping to elicit a few 'yeah, it happens, but mai pen rai' or 'no, never happened to me' responses, some of the agendas in this thread have just totally blindsided me - live and learn. Anything that gives people an avenue for Thai bashing clearly isnt a good idea.

i am not thai bashing , just made a comment about fdog post , I have never heard of anyone in australia calling the police for being refused service, i have lived in Aus for over 53 years . And seen all cultures as aus is a multi culture society . so some people will call the police and wait till they arrive which could take hours , then fill out reports because someone did not serve you . this is not Australian . most aussies would tell them where to go and move on

[kevvy]

TO FDOG

i can just imagine you going to the police station and say ."please officer the shop down the road did not want to serve me "next you will ask them to tuck you in at night time .

How strange. But yes, if you are a minority in Aus aka Aborigine you sometimes get refused service simply because you are black.

Should they not lodge a complaint? or should they just lay down and take it up the ass.

now you are bring race into it. and you are wrong because it is discrimination in Australia to refuse service because you are black.and shops know what will happen if they refuse a aborigine , the press will have a field day . i have been to aborigine towns up on the gulf so i know they are treated ok. i was there in 1990 for 3 months and had a great time . at no time i seen them refused to be serve in any shop . maybe the pub if they had too much to drink

Here is a link to an aborigine refused a cab ride. Some years ago there was also the Yothu Yindi lead singer refused entrance to a hotel in St Kilda and the management had to apologise etc etc. These are only made public because of who the people are. I'm sure there is a lot that is not reported.

So no, they cannot just refuse service for any reason.

http://www.news.com.au/national-news/victoria/top-musician-geoffrey-gurrumul-yunupingu-a-victim-of-racism-after-being-refused-cab-outside-palais-theatre-in-st-kilda/story-fndo4cq1-1226530387285

i know of this report before i even looked at it . so you are sure there is alot being not reported , show us how you know this . so this is a coloured argument for you ,have you tried to get a taxi on a Saturday night ? i have and been turned away many times . did i report it ? no , i just waited for another one . to report such trivial things amazes me

[endure]

Off topic racist nonsense and replies have been removed.

[A_Traveller]

Going back to the store in MBK mentioned in the OP, and no I've not waded through the thread so this may be repetition or even an answer lurking..

At one time they seemed to be OK with non Thai shoppers, but a while ago this changed. I was politely [so solly Thai only] told the last time I went there with one has to say a smile from the older and younger people there. I said mai-pen-rai and exited though I must admit to being really aggravated by it at the time. Subsequently there was even a sign saying "Sorry Thai Only".

The shop is pre-owned genuine [presumably] "up market" products e.g. LV & similar handbags, Rolex, Mountblanc, and similar. I didn't pursue the logic and maybe someone herein may know more, but that's my only experience of being unwelcome anywhere here. I did subsequently wonder if it was run as some kind of club or use and then swap format.

[NewlyMintedThai]

Where in MBK is this place?

[A_Traveller]

Ground Floor past Starbucks - >McDonald's -> next to a Gold Shop [not a red one ] on the external side. Looking at the MBK Map probably shop 18-07 or 18-08.

[NewlyMintedThai]

Thank you.

Sounds like a good place to give my Thai ID card a little work-out.

[FunFon]

Thank you.

Sounds like a good place to give my Thai ID card a little work-out.

-

I bet they'll still consider you a farang, they think being Thai is genetic, nothing to do with paperwork, and denying you entry on that basis is perfectly OK.

But maybe it's just a language issue, do please report back.

[animatic]

Had a Thai woodshop manager throw a block of wood at me,

rather than charge for services his workers had done for me.

I was offering to pay whatever he wished for the extra work done,

which I was never informed was not an option, but his face was bent.

A year or so later, I had a paid position open for something he loved to do.

This guy showed up asking me for the position, but not recognizing me.

I let him say his piece, then told him, I would never, ever, hire a man of his character.

His face crashed, he managed to stutter; but why.

'Because you caused me to lose too much face in the past.

And you used unneccesary violence against me.

I restrained myself from returning your violence.

But I have never forgotten, and you don't even remember.

Go away now and don't return.'

Oh, and I took dozens of mung baht of business to your competitors.

Hopefully a lesson was learned.

[animatic]

Going back to the store in MBK mentioned in the OP, and no I've not waded through the thread so this may be repetition or even an answer lurking..

At one time they seemed to be OK with non Thai shoppers, but a while ago this changed. I was politely [so solly Thai only] told the last time I went there with one has to say a smile from the older and younger people there. I said mai-pen-rai and exited though I must admit to being really aggravated by it at the time. Subsequently there was even a sign saying "Sorry Thai Only".

The shop is pre-owned genuine [presumably] "up market" products e.g. LV & similar handbags, Rolex, Mountblanc, and similar. I didn't pursue the logic and maybe someone herein may know more, but that's my only experience of being unwelcome anywhere here. I did subsequently wonder if it was run as some kind of club or use and then swap format.

I suspect this is a fake merchandise shop, and that they have sold to westerners,

who either came back and complained or were investigators for rights thefts and strung them up.

MBK is pretty public and on the investigator's radar.