Why Do Lao Expats Hate Thai Expats ?

[finy]

Anyone without residency of either country is just a guest.

Anyone who doesn't look Asian is just a foreigner.

I think we're all the same.

[FunFon]

Not to mention flat-out crims on the run, more here than most places. . .

[Marcel1]

Funny that as my last time there I had a 19 year old university student passing me bluetooth photos of her in her school uniform!

Haha you've believed a 19yo cheap ladyboy who made pics or himself in a girls school uniform... hahaha

[bermondburi]

I was visiting Laos for about 15 years . Last trip was last year . Most of these trips were too VT to do a visa . It's changed a lot over the years - weren't any ATMs when I first went there and now it seems like they're everywhere . VT has grown loads too and you can see the development of it all as you go from the bridge . I would say that VT as a whole has benefited massively from its proximity to Thailand .

I've met loads op people over the years there and I've had some fantastic night out there . The top floor bar of the something Palace Hotel which was open till the early hours was always good . Lift up to the top floor and feel the bass . It was part indoors and then with a big open air bit outside too . Last time I was there I ended up in another great club as the one I mentioned previously has closed down now . This was banging with a great vibe and happy punters everywhere .

Maybe some expats get pissed off with people doing visa runs but I bet anyone with a business doesn't ! The embassy probably rakes in 500,000 to a 1,000,000 . How do you think they paid for the nice new embassy . I remember the old one when you had to sweat it out in the sun queuing for ever . You still have to queue but at least you can sit down in the shade .

All the people using the embassy have to stay in hotels , eat food , get drunk etc . It is massive for the economy of VT . I often wondered how many of the places in VT kept going . My favourite was an English pub run by a guy from Milton Keynes who was married to an Indonesian woman . Good food and good company loads of times . Think he's sold up now to go back to Bali where he was before .

Personally I get bored in Laos very quick and once I get past nice wine and pizza for a few days I just want to go back to Thailand . Hotels in VT were a bit of a ripoff too compared to Thailand .

I wouldn't say that everyone going there was from Isaan . Loads of foreigners went there from BKK as it was easier and quicker to get a tourist visa there than going to PP Cambodia .

I've never really had any problems with expats in VT , ladyboys.......that's another story

[Ijustwannateach]

To place everything in perspective here, it is not only Lao expats who display a low esteem towards Thai expats, because Thai expats themselves often have little regard for their own peers and have a sort of disdain for each other.

Firstly, including myself, many do not consider the forever tourists or visa runners as the OP describes them, as expats at all, but more rather as drifter foreigners of little wealth who are considered as the lower forms of life in the evolutionary scale of Thailand long term stayers.

There is also an extreme of mistrust between expats and it is difficult to get up close and befriend them, plus those of dubious nature, into some form of illegal activities or other, con men, the dodgy bar, business and property owners.

The problem is that expats cover a whole spectrum of characters; personalities, ages, persuasions and some are just simply oddballs who do not fit into any particular category. These various types do not always gel well together, therefore they intend to either keep a low profile and keep to themselves, only socialising among their own circles or within their own cliques or stay low doing a little bit or this and a little bit of that or whatever it is they do.

In my experience of working in Europe for over 25 years, I found that the expats living or working in any specific European country were as a whole much more hospitable, inclined to befriend and support each other more and in some areas could be described as real expat communities, the Brits, Germans, Americans, French and so on.

Those settling in Thailand for the first time and perhaps in some of the neighboring countries, will maybe as surprised as I was when they discover how remote many expats can be from each other and their attitudes here.

Many seem to bare an intolerance towards other expats. Perhaps because they feel that the chances are that these people will not be socially hospitable, they are encroaching on their territory or could be several reasons for which I do not understand.

I agree with your observations above, and I can add a few potential reasons for this.

There is a very high percentage (comparatively) of socially dysfunctional and/or crazy people in denial among those coming here, largely because in the past the tourist sector was able and willing to absorb them for their money. You can see the effects even on this website, in terms of the high levels of displayed antisocial behaviour and denial of personal responsibility for one's own behaviour.

Nevertheless, Thailand's barriers to entry are still *relatively* low, and their tourist sector is still *relatively* popular compared to many other SE Asian countries- and far cheaper still than many of the European ones. So this is where the crazy, less-than-rich people land to stay in denial. It isn't working as well anymore, so they are getting grumpy and disillusioned- but still NOT responsible, oh, no.

Laos, as others have said, is a bit harder for those who want to stay a long time- and there are more legal and social restrictions on people. So it's less popular and attracts fewer of the same type.

Unfortunately, I fear that as Thailand loses (fortunately) more of that crowd, they will wind up in some other undeserving but poorer country.

[MrHammer]

I agree with your observations above, and I can add a few potential reasons for this.

There is a very high percentage (comparatively) of socially dysfunctional and/or crazy people in denial among those coming here, largely because in the past the tourist sector was able and willing to absorb them for their money. You can see the effects even on this website, in terms of the high levels of displayed antisocial behaviour and denial of personal responsibility for one's own behaviour.

Nevertheless, Thailand's barriers to entry are still *relatively* low, and their tourist sector is still *relatively* popular compared to many other SE Asian countries- and far cheaper still than many of the European ones. So this is where the crazy, less-than-rich people land to stay in denial. It isn't working as well anymore, so they are getting grumpy and disillusioned- but still NOT responsible, oh, no.

I think you shouldn't lump all 'crazies' together Lots of 'excentric' people don't hurt anyone and contribute in their own way to the world. I'm sure we all know such people. My problem is with the antisocial people in the pathological sense for example a certain subset of the blogosphere in Thailand. Or the people who'se desperation and delusion have made them miserable to be around, but they're still hanging around, living like peasents and always looking for a quick dollar. Then there are all desperados with big plans and who slowly but surely gets chewed up, taken for every dollar and spit out. Also not pleasent people to be around.

It does help to stay outside the extended tourist areas. I don't think I could stay sane living somewhere like Pattaya where all normal behaviour and morals have been tossed aside.

[Beetlejuice]

I agree with your observations above, and I can add a few potential reasons for this.

There is a very high percentage (comparatively) of socially dysfunctional and/or crazy people in denial among those coming here, largely because in the past the tourist sector was able and willing to absorb them for their money. You can see the effects even on this website, in terms of the high levels of displayed antisocial behaviour and denial of personal responsibility for one's own behaviour.

Nevertheless, Thailand's barriers to entry are still *relatively* low, and their tourist sector is still *relatively* popular compared to many other SE Asian countries- and far cheaper still than many of the European ones. So this is where the crazy, less-than-rich people land to stay in denial. It isn't working as well anymore, so they are getting grumpy and disillusioned- but still NOT responsible, oh, no.

I think you shouldn't lump all 'crazies' together Lots of 'excentric' people don't hurt anyone and contribute in their own way to the world. I'm sure we all know such people. My problem is with the antisocial people in the pathological sense for example a certain subset of the blogosphere in Thailand. Or the people who'se desperation and delusion have made them miserable to be around, but they're still hanging around, living like peasents and always looking for a quick dollar. Then there are all desperados with big plans and who slowly but surely gets chewed up, taken for every dollar and spit out. Also not pleasent people to be around.

It does help to stay outside the extended tourist areas. I don't think I could stay sane living somewhere like Pattaya where all normal behaviour and morals have been tossed aside.

I was going to reply to you earlier, but first I had to do a search in the dictionary to find out what the word blogosphere means. Anyhow, I know now.

It never used to be this way. Many moons ago at the dawning of time, there where relatively few farangs actually living in Thailand. Mostly a low number of tourists or those just passing through.

If I happened to meet one and keeping in mind these were pre-Internet and Thai visa days, it was almost guaranteed that there would be a cheery hello between us and a conversation would start. If I met another native English speaker, it would soon become apparent that the person had probably not conversed with anyone in English for weeks, months or maybe years and once they opened up, there was no turning them off. Within a period of an hour, I had verbally received the guy’s whole life autobiography plus all the events that happened in at least 2 of his previous lives back in the sixteenth and nineteenth centuries, plus his emotional, sexual and financial problems and all the rest of it.

But I did enjoy those days and formed many associations with expats just by meeting on chance out somewhere. Back in my home country I was always a sociable person, brought up in a part of London and lived in New York for many years where there were real communities. Being chatty and sociable comes naturally with me and this is why my family and I get on so well with our wonderful Thai neighbors.

Again I am by no means suggesting that we should consider it an obligation or a duty to acknowledge other expats, but just being polite costs nothing, the same as we would treat and consider others in our own countries, although from what I’ve been told lately, things have all changed there as well.

[Ijustwannateach]

Mr. Hammer, I know exactly what you mean, and the difference you mean, too- eccentrics are ok, but there are far too many pathologically antisocial types moving here. They cause us trouble, they cause the Thais trouble, and they more or less cannot be stopped until they are arrested or go home.

I make it a standing rule, more or less, not to befriend any foreigner here until at least 2 trusted contacts vouch for that person- quite often that still goes wrong. Many people manage to survive here primarily by virtue of Thais giving them too much slack for 'foreign difference.' Sociopathic people at the office are very, very common.

My experiences of random encounters of foreigners here include:
a man who stiffed the bartender when he left
a young couple who seemed to be looking for someone to tell a hard luck story to and buy them food... I secretly paid my own bill and left suddenly. The look on their face was priceless.
a man who decided that being the only other foreigner in the establishment entitled him to paw over both me and my foreign female guests
idiots panhandling in restaurants or transit stations

So I try to avoid those random, otherwise potentially pleasant encounters that you describe, Beetlejuice- but from my travels in OTHER countries, I know what they are like!

[MrWorldwide]

Think about the best times you've had in a bar, and I'm confident that none of them involved some old tosspot telling you his life story. .Besides,mine is classified.

(or certified - I always get those two mixed up. Nurse !)

Edited April 1, 2013 by MrWorldwide

[bri1guy]

Maybe they dont like Visa runners not the fact that they are Expats.. I dont like visa runners as well unless they have a specific reason just to return to thailand ASAP, why not enter the new country & stay awhile its a good excuse for some R&R (rest &relaxation) even a weekend away but that people spend there whole day on a bus just for a visa run, its there business , i choose to not put myself though that unneeded misery!!!

[prestburypark]

I venerate the wisdom of the old expats ......actually I don't ....eeejit at 18....eejit at 80

[squarethecircle]

I don't know why in Vientienne, but Thai 'expats' do seem to have a mistrust of each other and probably with good reason. Within the last year I've visited Hong Kong and Tokyo and both times met some interesting and friendly expats who were keen to strike up a normal conversation and have a drink with a stranger. In Tokyo I tagged along with some english teachers to a night club avoiding the Roppongi traps. In Hong Kong I had some good conversation with longtime expats in a friendly small expat bar.

In Thailand, I have had mostly bad experiences with meeting people randomly. Either some shady people with business proposals, degenerate whore mongers or younger people who are clearly to cool to engage others or who seem like the presence of another foreigner constitutes some great threat to their social standing. So perhaps that is why expats in Thailand prefer to only socialize with people who they know already from work, sports or through their social circle. I don't blame them either. Lots of weird and shady people around. Thailand does seem to attract people of low intelligence and/or shady motives in droves. So some sort of vetting process is probably needed.

Exactly...the stereotypes exist for a reason.

[Suradit69]

Pure elitism - the ones in Bhutan look down on those in Laos.

Maybe the Laos expats are tired of reading all the whingeing on Thai Visa and blame the visa runners as the most likely primary whingers.

Also, according to those philosophers, The Kingston Trio

"

This whole world is festering with unhappy souls

The French hate the Germans, the Germans hate the Poles

Italians hate Yugoslavs, South Africans hate the Dutch

And I don’t like anybody very much

But we can be tranquil and thankful and proud

For Man’s been endowed with a mushroom-shaped cloud

And we can be certain that some lovely day

Someone will set the spark off…and we will all be blown away

They’re rioting in Africa, There’s strife in Iran

What Nature doesn’t do to us will be done by our Fellow Man"

[IMA_FARANG]

I had a friend whose father was a white sharecropper in the southern U.S.

His father litterly borrowed money from the company that owned his "farm", owed the company for any fertilizer and seed that he used, and then at harvest time had to sell his crop to the company at their price.

And the company deducted everything he "owed" him for his seed and fertilizer BEFORE he got paid a cent for his crop.

He was what they refer to as "White Trash" .... the poorest of the poor WHITE people around.

But he dispised the BLACKS who were as poor as him .... and hid the same sharecropper life as he did.

Why?

Well as his father told my friend, "Don't matter if you are dirt poor, just as long as you got someone to look down on".

For him it was the balcks.

And that's why "expats" living in one country look down on those expats living in a neighboring country.

No matter how bad their situation is, as long as they have someone to look down on and can imagine they are worse off than you, that helps you to cope with your problems.

As in the U.K with the:

Welsh, Geordies, Cockneys, Scots, and Irish.

(Who will all say, "Well at least we're not bl--dy Yanks).

It's just human psychology.

[Suradit69]

I agree with your observations above, and I can add a few potential reasons for this.

There is a very high percentage (comparatively) of socially dysfunctional and/or crazy people in denial among those coming here, largely because in the past the tourist sector was able and willing to absorb them for their money. You can see the effects even on this website, in terms of the high levels of displayed antisocial behaviour and denial of personal responsibility for one's own behaviour.

Nevertheless, Thailand's barriers to entry are still *relatively* low, and their tourist sector is still *relatively* popular compared to many other SE Asian countries- and far cheaper still than many of the European ones. So this is where the crazy, less-than-rich people land to stay in denial. It isn't working as well anymore, so they are getting grumpy and disillusioned- but still NOT responsible, oh, no.

I think you shouldn't lump all 'crazies' together Lots of 'excentric' people don't hurt anyone and contribute in their own way to the world. I'm sure we all know such people. My problem is with the antisocial people in the pathological sense for example a certain subset of the blogosphere in Thailand. Or the people who'se desperation and delusion have made them miserable to be around, but they're still hanging around, living like peasents and always looking for a quick dollar. Then there are all desperados with big plans and who slowly but surely gets chewed up, taken for every dollar and spit out. Also not pleasent people to be around.

It does help to stay outside the extended tourist areas. I don't think I could stay sane living somewhere like Pattaya where all normal behaviour and morals have been tossed aside.

"It does help to stay outside the extended tourist areas. I don't think I could stay sane living somewhere like Pattaya where all normal behaviour and morals have been tossed aside."

Presumably you've felt compelled to visit Pattaya numerous times in order to develop your in-depth study of the econo-socio-ethical standards displayed in "residential areas" like Walking Street and the sois running between Beach Rd and Sai Song?

I'm always impressed by the extensive knowledge of Pattaya, and of its residents, as cited by its critics who claim they never go there. Or maybe they just visit for short periods in order to better understand why it's a place no one should go.

Although there has been some tourist creep (not speaking of an unpleasant individual, but the expansion of touristy areas) further inland, quite a few of those of us who reside here go for years without seeing the inside of a bar or mingling with visiting teams of social critics on data gathering expeditions.

[candypants]

i showed a young female expat US citizen living in Singapore a very good time friday night after meeting her in a club on soi 11.

sometimes it pays to be freindly

Edited April 1, 2013 by candypants

[bendejo]

They eat a lot of innards (aka internal organ meats) in Lao. An amazing quirk of fate that the French traveled half-way round the globe and found people that enjoy eating guts as much as they do. All that sheep brain and pig spleen keeps the expats constipated and irritable.

And then there's turf: the miserable little cafe where they drink their lives away is their home, and they don't need other stray foreigners sitting at the next table. But they serve the purpose of giving them something else to complain about (other than that the guts in that day's lunch were not prepared properly).

And then there's the competition: the expats who lie about being former SAS/Seals/Special Forces etc are at odds with the ones who lie about being in the French Foreign Legion.

[lounger]

The grass is greener has morphed into ' you're ok I'm not ok'. People with high emotional intelligence can see through the personality differences and with luck without saying ' there but for the grace of God go I'

Unfortunately the type of human traditionally considered cannon fodder is perceptually impaired and is breeding faster than the rest.

Thats what they tell me. Dont understand it myself....!

[farang000999]

It seems like everyone hates Thailand expats and Thailand expats even hate each other vehemently.

[Xangsamhua]

Having been both a "Lao expat" (5 years) and a "Thai expat" (13 years), I find this a very strange thread.

Why would you look down on someone because they're living in another country and it's not their homeland?

You might think that where you live has advantages over where they live, but what's that got to with it? They may have very good reasons for living where they do.

Weird.

___________________________________________________________________________________

Sorry, I hadn't read the second page when I wrote this. It seems it's all about the crazies and losers.

I don't hang out in bars (I did when young, but went with friends) so I don't get hassled by these folk, and I see no reason to start a conversation with a farang in a shopping mall, but when I used to travel from Nong Khai to Bangkok and back (before the bridge), the expats would chat together in the dining car (locals didn't seem to use the dining car then), and that was OK. It was interesting to hear about what each other was doing in Thailand or Laos.

Edited April 1, 2013 by Xangsamhua

[yakyai]

Having lived in Cambodia and traveled around this friendly region quite a bit, It took me a while to figure out why Bangkok seems so cold among expats, aside from it being a mega-city with all that brings.

First, if I came here for the reasons that many come here, I would also keep to myself and risk having to answer as few questions as possible. Not all expats fall into this category, but Thailand does a lot to let sex tourists, burnouts, and other sketchy dropouts get by without having to face themselves-- at least until the money runs out. Talking to other expats-- the ones that still have something of the moral/ethical standards that "you" left behind-- is the fastest way to have to face yourself, so avoid at all costs. Anonymity is a treasured commodity in the land of vices.

Second, now that I've been here awhile, I know better than to risk (accidentally) engaging with the ones who haven't yet figured out that I don't want to hear about their exploits-- the ones who are either oblivious to the fact that what they're here for is kind of skeezy, or who haven't yet figured out that we aren't all like them (i.e that there are other reasons to be in Bangkok, though some days I still ask myself what those are).

I think a lot fewer people become expats in Laos for these reasons-- a much larger proportion go there to work in the international aid community, or in business. It's just a different scene with fewer suspicious motives floating around. And in Cambodia, at least in my experience, the ones with the worst motives/reasons for being there kept well-separated from and out of the way of the more mainstream (NGO and business) expat community.

Just my experience.

[JLCrab]

My only extended stay in Vientiane, Laos was in 2003 and it made think of an interview I had seen on CNN with a young boy in Kabul, Afghanistan:

CNN: What do you to be when you grow up?

Boy: An NGO worker.

CNN: And do you know what an NGO worker is?

Boy: Yes. He's someone who drives a Land Rover!

BTW All my NGO non-work is in Thailand

Edited April 1, 2013 by JLCrab

[teacherofwoe]

Why Do Lao Expats Hate Thai Expats?

Sexual frustration. It is illegal for a foreigner to have sexual relations with a Laotian woman out of wedlock.

[cooked]

I sometimes pass a week or two without seeing a Farang. However I must admit that I feel a bit nervous about the simple human act of acknowledging his existence as I have so often been ignored.

In the village in Switzerland where I lived previously people would stare at you open mouthed if you didn't reply to their good morning, in one case a guy stopped his tractor to ask what was wrong (I was deep in thought about something) ... not an easy situation for me, you generally have about 5 seconds to make a decision and the guy doesn't answer? It took me about 6 months to get to the state where I am now feeling like a Kung <deleted> fighter when I see a Farang, ready to react or not react depending on his attitude.

Keeps me alert though..

[JCauto]

Having been an expat in Cambodia, Laos, and now, Thailand (for the second time), I'd say that I'd challenge the basic premise. I haven't ever seen or participated in sneering at, looking down on or otherwise ignoring Thai visa runners. Probably the main reason is that I simply seldom encounter them. I know that where I drink there really aren't very many tourists who show up, it's almost entirely an expatriate crowd of people who live and work in Laos. The places in the centre of town I suppose have a much much higher proportion of tourists to expat residents. Are you sure it wasn't the better heeled visa runners looking down on the poorer ones? Or were you in a predominately French bar?

I think the one instance where I would agree with the premise is when you get the classic Pattaya prowler in full flower turning up in places like Phnom Penh and Vientiane, often with a skanky ho on their arm. No, I don't go out of my way to socialize with the wifebeater/tattoo/skank brigade. Is that being snobbish?

[candypants]

phnom penh, has thee largest number of sleaze bag, junkie and freak residents i have ever encountered. I was worse 10 years ago, but it is most certainly still there.

As for Lao expats, every one i know has lived as an expat in Thailand at sometime prior to their Lao experience.

[HeavyDrinker]

I do like the obsessions with 'loonies' or 'socially dysfunctional people' and the very spurious claim that they are mainly found in bars...

Those of you who think there are a lot of weirdos here now, clearly weren't here in the 1990s...

I think the internet has a lot to answer for.

There is an imagined code of conduct for 'expats' nowadays.

This can be seen on this very forum (and many other online places) judging from some of the mis-placed outrage one reads on topics such as what others wear, do, look like, how much they drink, or the assumed mental state of people posters have never met...

...a sorry state of affairs...

[JDGRUEN]

I have to agree with Beetlejuice, most of the farang ex pats I encountered in Pattaya last month would not make eye contact and just seemed to pretend they didn't see me. I had the distinct impression they were wary of me. On the other hand I was introduced to one or two ex pats in bars by the girls and they were fairly friendly but still a little stand offish. Seems like they are a little afraid of new faces in town, though they weren't to know that me and my Thai Gf were just on holiday.

Maybe they were concerned you might be undercover international law enforcement ...

[JDGRUEN]

I think part of the issue is the mixed bag of Western Expats found in Thailand and neighboring countries. I remember having a soccer buddy (sorry 'football') from England named Alex. He told me stories of his in-laws having a summer place in a seaside town in Spain. It was a town heavily populated with people who were from similar backgrounds in England. Alex related stories of a parade of club / bar hopping of people of all ages having a great time of it. And of course they all carped about the Spanish authorities a lot. In Thailand and nearby places, with Expats from the U.K. already being a mixed bag, add in fellows from the U.S., Australia, NZ, Canada ... next add people from mainland Europe - Germany, France, Netherlands, Belgium, etc. then what you have is similar looking people but with very diverse political beliefs and social backgrounds. This admixture, I believe is part of the 'we - they' -- 'us - them' attitude that arises in expats of S.E.A (Asean, I suppose these days).

In my life, having spent much time in the military and playing amateur soccer ('futbol') for 20 years, I have had the pleasure of interacting with men from practically every country in the world over long periods of time. Therefore, I am not a neophyte to socializing with people of different mindsets and cultural-social backgrounds. But in today's heavily charged socio-political arena it is a different thing all together. In my social set of friends, who strongly believe in freedom of speech, we are not burdened with the self-censorship of layers of political correctness in conversations and discussions as it prevails and even dominates in other places. Nor do we consider frank open discussions of certain elements of our society to be racism or exhibiting hate speech. In this regard, I would be hesitant to 'pal around' with people who at the drop of a hat would try to impose politically correct censorship on my expressed opinion, attempt to be the 'thought police' or otherwise attempt to 'correct me' on what is proper content for discussion. I used to be shocked - but now I am just amused at the PC enforcement shenanigans that one finds here on TV.

Edited April 1, 2013 by JDGRUEN

[GuestHouse]

I'm quite sure that the sights passing through any of the 'Thai Tourist Visa Extension Destinations' would engender a non complimentary view of Thai expats in general.