Because of another thread I thought I'd start this one.

Israel restored – God promised it.

Israel ceased to be a nation for nearly 2000 years. Their removal from Judea had been foretold many years before as Moses wrote.

Deut 28.63-64... Just as it pleased the LORD to make you prosper and increase in number, so it will please him to ruin and destroy you. You will be uprooted from the land you are entering to possess. Then the LORD will scatter you among all nations, from one end of the earth to the other.

The land that once flowed with ‘milk and honey’ was to be made desolate. As Ezekiel wrote.

Ezekiel 6.14 So will I stretch out my hand upon them, and make the land desolate…

Persecution of the Jews followed as foretold by Deuteronomy and Numbers (amongst others.

Deuteronomy 28.37, and 65, 66 …You will become a thing of horror and an object of scorn and ridicule to all the nations where the LORD will drive you. 65-66 Among those nations you will find no repose, no resting place for the sole of your foot. There the LORD will give you an anxious mind, eyes weary with longing, and a despairing heart. You will live in constant suspense, filled with dread both night and day, never sure of your life.

It was prophesied by Ezekiel and Jeremiah (amongst others) that the nation would be regathered,

Ezekiel 36.24 For I will take you out of the nations; I will gather you from all the countries and bring you back into your own land.

Jeremiah 30.3 The days are coming, declares the LORD, when I will bring my people Israel and Judah back from captivity and restore them to the land I gave their forefathers to possess,' says the LORD.

And so after many historic events Israel was declared a state on the 14th May 1948 in fulfilment of God’s promises spoken 1000s of years before.

Because of another thread I thought I'd start this one.

Israel restored – God promised it.

Israel ceased to be a nation for nearly 2000 years. Their removal from Judea had been foretold many years before as Moses wrote.

Deut 28.63-64... Just as it pleased the LORD to make you prosper and increase in number, so it will please him to ruin and destroy you. You will be uprooted from the land you are entering to possess. Then the LORD will scatter you among all nations, from one end of the earth to the other.

The land that once flowed with ‘milk and honey’ was to be made desolate. As Ezekiel wrote.

Ezekiel 6.14 So will I stretch out my hand upon them, and make the land desolate…

Persecution of the Jews followed as foretold by Deuteronomy and Numbers (amongst others.

Deuteronomy 28.37, and 65, 66 …You will become a thing of horror and an object of scorn and ridicule to all the nations where the LORD will drive you. 65-66 Among those nations you will find no repose, no resting place for the sole of your foot. There the LORD will give you an anxious mind, eyes weary with longing, and a despairing heart. You will live in constant suspense, filled with dread both night and day, never sure of your life.

It was prophesied by Ezekiel and Jeremiah (amongst others) that the nation would be regathered,

Ezekiel 36.24 For I will take you out of the nations; I will gather you from all the countries and bring you back into your own land.

Jeremiah 30.3 The days are coming, declares the LORD, when I will bring my people Israel and Judah back from captivity and restore them to the land I gave their forefathers to possess,' says the LORD.

And so after many historic events Israel was declared a state on the 14th May 1948 in fulfilment of God’s promises spoken 1000s of years before.

Israel respects and thanks all fundamental Christians for their support.

They follow in the great tradition of men like Orde Wingate, who recognised that the only real defence for the State of Israel is a strong Israeli Defence Force.

The amount of money and support the US pours into Israel we might as well call it the 51st state.

The amount of money and support the US pours into Israel we might as well call it the 51st state.

Fine. Any thoughts on my post?

ps Maybe that's why America does so well, because of a promise made to Abraham in Genesis 12.3 "I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse; and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you."

The amount of money and support the US pours into Israel we might as well call it the 51st state.

Fine. Any thoughts on my post?

ps Maybe that's why America does so well, because of a promise made to Abraham in Genesis 12.3 "I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse; and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you."

Quite possibly.

It might be a 'Karma' thing too - which goes hand in hand with a lot of the Old Testament.

All I do know for sure, America will never abandon Israel. Finest country I've ever been to in the ME.

Good looking women, probabley the uniforms.

Jer.29...

10 For thus saith the LORD, That after seventy years be accomplished at Babylon I will visit you, and perform my good word toward you, in causing you to return to this place.

11 For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith the LORD, thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you an expected end.

12 Then shall ye call upon me, and ye shall go and pray unto me, and I will hearken unto you.

13 And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart.

14 And I will be found of you, saith the LORD: and I will turn away your captivity, and I will gather you from all the nations, and from all the places whither I have driven you, saith the LORD; and I will bring you again into the place whence I caused you to be carried away captive.

70 years ? bit late me thinks.

The amount of money and support the US pours into Israel we might as well call it the 51st state.

The U.S. government pours alot more money into much less noble countries .

i agree about the less noble countries, but maybe not alot more, though...

I'm not too concerned about the Bible's promise, but the modern Israelis have brought about a great nation with their blood, sweat and tears and they deserve to keep it.

Two things that ain't worth talking about - religion and politics.

The U.S. government pours alot more money into much less noble countries .

I believe the country that gets the most aid from the USA is Egypt (reward for making peace with Israel)

Suegha - Please leave your bible thumping at home. I think you must realise from the responses you have had on other threads, that most of us out here don't believe the bible as literal truth.

The U.S. government pours alot more money into much less noble countries .

I believe the country that gets the most aid from the USA is Egypt (reward for making peace with Israel)

Suegha - Please leave your bible thumping at home. I think you must realise from the responses you have had on other threads, that most of us out here don't believe the bible as literal truth.

Amen.

I'm not too concerned about the Bible's promise, but the modern Israelis have brought about a great nation with their blood, sweat and tears and they deserve to keep it.

I just wish their tourists wouldn't be as "tight as fishes bums" when they travel. Talk about gorse pockets! Those guys will argue about one baht.

I'm not too concerned about the Bible's promise, but the modern Israelis have brought about a great nation with their blood, sweat and tears and they deserve to keep it.

I just wish their tourists wouldn't be as "tight as fishes bums" when they travel. Talk about gorse pockets! Those guys will argue about one baht.

I worked on a boat that cruised the red sea - for Isreali tourists. My job was stopping people from standing on the seats - it was very hard - they would stand on the seats as a point of principle!

The job paid well by Kibbutz standards, but awful money really - we were promised a share of tips - we got 1 Scheckel for a month of cruising - carrying about a couple of thousand people! It then had to get shared between 6 people - but being the kind buy I am I let the Slovakians have my share.

FYI 1 sheckel is about 10 baht!

Jer.29...

10 For thus saith the LORD, That after seventy years be accomplished at Babylon I will visit you, and perform my good word toward you, in causing you to return to this place.

11 For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith the LORD, thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you an expected end.

12 Then shall ye call upon me, and ye shall go and pray unto me, and I will hearken unto you.

13 And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart.

14 And I will be found of you, saith the LORD: and I will turn away your captivity, and I will gather you from all the nations, and from all the places whither I have driven you, saith the LORD; and I will bring you again into the place whence I caused you to be carried away captive.

70 years ? bit late me thinks.

Thanks for your interest. I was trying to keep my original post brief as this is a huge subject. Jeremiah has to be read as a whole. Verses 1-14 of chapter 29 refers to those already in captivity in Babylon - retored in 70 years. Verses 15-19 refers to those who stayed behind, scattered throughout the world and later regathered, see other verses, then the fulfillment of 30.3. I hope this clarifies it. Again, I'm trying to be brief.

The U.S. government pours alot more money into much less noble countries .

I believe the country that gets the most aid from the USA is Egypt (reward for making peace with Israel)

Suegha - Please leave your bible thumping at home. I think you must realise from the responses you have had on other threads, that most of us out here don't believe the bible as literal truth.

Sir Burr, firstly, I do not bible 'thump'. Secondly, it's not your part to tell me what to post, if you don't like my posts you don't have to read them. And thirdly, the thread is an objective posting about the nation of Israel that didn't exist as a nation for 1000s of years and then was regathered as the bible said it would be, if you'd like to post your thoughts on this, I'd be more than interested.

Thanks for the clarification Suegha - I read it was about Babylon, but its not too clear (to me at least) that it is no longer talking of the same subject - I suppose we can postulate given the "scatter your people across the peoples of the earth" bit - no longer referencing Babylon.

Another point perhaps is that Islam did not exist at this time, so the people from that region were all Bedouin (spelling?) tribes and settlers of the same race(s) and, I guess, similar religion (ignoring the invaders like Egyptions and, later, Romans, etc). Therefore, assuming this (perhaps wrongly of course ) Palastinians should also have 'thier' Nation - they worship the same God still and even share some prophets. Of course, that may happen soon too.

As to my earlier (mistaken as you point out) point on the 70 years etc - the ancient Hebrews did interesting things with numbers. Numbers did not necessarily carry their 'real' numeric value when used. I remember my old RE teacher (all those eons ago!) saying that 40 was the Hebrew term for 'a long time' - hence, 40 day and 40 nights for Noah and various people's wandering in the dessert. 1,000 years is, perhaps, such an unimaginable amount of time to an ancient Hebrew that maybe it equates to "at some point in the future".

I'm not too concerned about the Bible's promise, but the modern Israelis have brought about a great nation with their blood, sweat and tears and they deserve to keep it.

I just wish their tourists wouldn't be as "tight as fishes bums" when they travel. Talk about gorse pockets! Those guys will argue about one baht.

I have met some Brits and Scotts who would give them a real run for their money. The wealthier, the cheaper I find.

Thanks for the clarification Suegha - I read it was about Babylon, but its not too clear (to me at least) that it is no longer talking of the same subject - I suppose we can postulate given the "scatter your people across the peoples of the earth" bit - no longer referencing Babylon.

Another point perhaps is that Islam did not exist at this time, so the people from that region were all Bedouin (spelling?) tribes and settlers of the same race(s) and, I guess, similar religion (ignoring the invaders like Egyptions and, later, Romans, etc). Therefore, assuming this (perhaps wrongly of course ) Palastinians should also have 'thier' Nation - they worship the same God still and even share some prophets. Of course, that may happen soon too.

As to my earlier (mistaken as you point out) point on the 70 years etc - the ancient Hebrews did interesting things with numbers. Numbers did not necessarily carry their 'real' numeric value when used. I remember my old RE teacher (all those eons ago!) saying that 40 was the Hebrew term for 'a long time' - hence, 40 day and 40 nights for Noah and various people's wandering in the dessert. 1,000 years is, perhaps, such an unimaginable amount of time to an ancient Hebrew that maybe it equates to "at some point in the future".

Nice post. I agree that the reading of it is sometimes difficult, but I also agree with you on the use of 'all nations' (see v 18 of 29). It's interesting because the Jews were not a diaspora - yet!

I also agree that numbers in scripture are sometimes figurative. 40 nearly always refers to a time of testing, Israel 40 years in the wilderness, Jesus 40 days fasting and being tempted, 40 day and nights of rain at the start of the flood, etc. Like all biblical based subjects, numerology is huge! But great fun I think.

Once again thanks for your interest.

The U.S. government pours alot more money into much less noble countries .

I believe the country that gets the most aid from the USA is Egypt (reward for making peace with Israel)

Suegha - Please leave your bible thumping at home. I think you must realise from the responses you have had on other threads, that most of us out here don't believe the bible as literal truth.

Sir Burr, firstly, I do not bible 'thump'. Secondly, it's not your part to tell me what to post, if you don't like my posts you don't have to read them. And thirdly, the thread is an objective posting about the nation of Israel that didn't exist as a nation for 1000s of years and then was regathered as the bible said it would be, if you'd like to post your thoughts on this, I'd be more than interested.

I actually enjoy suegha's "thumping". He/she is a real expert on this stuff.

After all, how can we make up our minds if the Bible is real or a bunch of B.S. without examining what it has to say?

That said, I tend to be more inclined towards thinking that the Bible is a fairy-tale for the mentally disturbed, but I'm not 100% sure, so try to remain open minded.

I actually enjoy suegha's "thumping". He/she is a real expert on this stuff.

After all, how can we make up our minds if the Bible is real or a bunch of B.S. without examining what it has to say?

That said, I tend to be more inclined towards thinking that the Bible is a fairy-tale for the mentally disturbed, but I'm not 100% sure, so try to remain open minded.

So Mote It Be.

I tend to be more inclined towards thinking that the Bible is a fairy-tale for the mentally disturbed

Possibly more tactful to think of it (especially the OT) as a collection of allegorical stories used to inspire and explain sometimes difficult concepts to an uneducated and limited audiance. After all if you stood on a soap box and shouted out 'you must do this' and 'you mustn't do that' you would get few listeners, if you sit down a tell a story, you will get plenty. It is also more open to the young and those that find maintaining attension span difficult (like your mentally disturbed perhaps ?).

In The NT, Jesus did this with his followers - I don't think we can assume he invented this process.

Homer did the same with the Illyad with Archilles heel etc.

...and we do it with cartoons and kids programs (and many, many movies) where the goodies win and the baddies meet a sticky end etc. Its only the medium and the force thats applied to the story that has changed over the eons I think.

In The NT, Jesus did this with his followers - I don't think we can assume he invented this process.

Homer did the same with the Illyad with Archilles heel etc.

...

And we don't take Homer's works as the literal truth either.

And yes Suegha you are bible-thumping and there is nothing objective about religion.

In The NT, Jesus did this with his followers - I don't think we can assume he invented this process.

Homer did the same with the Illyad with Archilles heel etc.

...

And we don't take Homer's works as the literal truth either.

And yes Suegha you are bible-thumping and there is nothing objective about religion.

I didn't say religion was objective, (that's another discussion) I said I posted an objective post on a restored Israel and what the bible said 1000s of years ago about it's restoration. It's objective because you can look at the factual evidence of Israel's existance and compare what the bible says. You may not like that fact, but it's there!

In The NT, Jesus did this with his followers - I don't think we can assume he invented this process.

Homer did the same with the Illyad with Archilles heel etc.

...

And we don't take Homer's works as the literal truth either.

And yes Suegha you are bible-thumping and there is nothing objective about religion.

I didn't say religion was objective, (that's another discussion) I said I posted an objective post on a restored Israel and what the bible said 1000s of years ago about it's restoration. It's objective because you can look at the factual evidence of Israel's existance and compare what the bible says. You may not like that fact, but it's there!

Lithuania is also there and it has nothing to do with the bible.

Many people, from Leonardo da Vinci, Nostramus, Star Trek, Arthur C. Clarke and Bill Gates have predicted things that came to pass. No big deal.

If you agree that religion is not objective, then, it must be subjective with all the conclusions that subjectivity brings.

In The NT, Jesus did this with his followers - I don't think we can assume he invented this process.

Homer did the same with the Illyad with Archilles heel etc.

...

And we don't take Homer's works as the literal truth either.

And yes Suegha you are bible-thumping and there is nothing objective about religion.

I didn't say religion was objective, (that's another discussion) I said I posted an objective post on a restored Israel and what the bible said 1000s of years ago about it's restoration. It's objective because you can look at the factual evidence of Israel's existance and compare what the bible says. You may not like that fact, but it's there!

Lithuania is also there and it has nothing to do with the bible.

Many people, from Leonardo da Vinci, Nostramus, Star Trek, Arthur C. Clarke and Bill Gates have predicted things that came to pass. No big deal.

If you agree that religion is not objective, then, it must be subjective with all the conclusions that subjectivity brings.

Sir Burr, let's not fall out about this. Read my post, I was refering to the previous post that you responded to!

Also, it was Israel that was the subject of the post and what the bible says 'objectively' about it. Clear and unambiguous references to a nation that ceased to exist for 1000s of years being restored. After it's desolation, the Jews persecution and it's restoration, all clearly predicted in the bible. That's what's objective!

Suegha - I don't want to fall out over this either. What we have here is a Mexican Stand-off, an impasse.

For me and it's only my opinion, anybody who says there IS a God, or, who says there ISN"T a God is one small step up from being a liar.

You cannot prove, or, disprove a God. Anybody that takes a stand either way is basing his belief on something that has no proof. That is why "faith" is so important to religion.

I'll find out the truth when I die. That is good enough for me.

You don't have to be religious to lead a good life. I believe that man-kind is innately good (otherwise we would not have progressed) and most of the ten commandements are self-evident.

You can still lead a good life without the aid of religion.

As that eminent sage (Thomas Merton) on TV said, to misquote "Arguing about what happens when you die is ridiculous".

In The NT, Jesus did this with his followers - I don't think we can assume he invented this process.

Homer did the same with the Illyad with Archilles heel etc.

...

And we don't take Homer's works as the literal truth either.

And yes Suegha you are bible-thumping and there is nothing objective about religion.

I didn't say religion was objective, (that's another discussion) I said I posted an objective post on a restored Israel and what the bible said 1000s of years ago about it's restoration. It's objective because you can look at the factual evidence of Israel's existance and compare what the bible says. You may not like that fact, but it's there!

Lithuania is also there and it has nothing to do with the bible.

Many people, from Leonardo da Vinci, Nostramus, Star Trek, Arthur C. Clarke and Bill Gates have predicted things that came to pass. No big deal.

If you agree that religion is not objective, then, it must be subjective with all the conclusions that subjectivity brings.

Sir Burr, let's not fall out about this. Read my post, I was refering to the previous post that you responded to!

Also, it was Israel that was the subject of the post and what the bible says 'objectively' about it. Clear and unambiguous references to a nation that ceased to exist for 1000s of years being restored. After it's desolation, the Jews persecution and it's restoration, all clearly predicted in the bible. That's what's objective!

Didn't the jews just read it and decide to make it happen?

You can't proove or dismove many, many things it does not make it poppycock. Just about everything we know about the physical universe is based on ever-evolving theories - we can't proove them, we can only say that currently we can't disprove them - it doesn't make them klaptrap either - by your conclusion all the astrophysicists in the world are one step up from liars.

Argueing about anything is pointless. However, discourse on ANYTHING is not. Whether you believe or not is irrelevent - no one asking you to convert or anything.

I can discuss, as I have in this thread, about any subject I find interesting. I have even quoted scripture (albeit with incorrect understanding as it turns out) because I thought it relevent. I do not need to believe it. I can look on it from an invesgative point of view and talk about other's beliefs just as I can discuss super-string theory or chaos theory or even creationalism - no proof or disproof (yet) and I certainly don't wholley believe in any of these. I am not a Christian, but I can still discuss - I may be wrong in my understanding and in my conclusions and people like Suegha who have a much better understanding than I, have correct me - that way I learn, I am a wiser man (even if its just in the knowledge of the scriptures of a religion I do not subscribe to) - as long as I do not offend with my ignorance then I am happy. If I don't want to discuss a subject because it is not of interest to me, I simply don't - I don't expect everyone else not to too.

Proverbs 18.15: The heart of the discerning acquires knowledge; the ears of the wise seek it out.