Two Citizenships—Best Way To Change Immigration Status?

[buddha02]

My 33-year-old son has both US and Thai citizenship. He lived
in the US for 15 years and 9 months ago he entered Thailand on his US passport
with a one-year non-immigrant visa. He wants to change his status by leaving
the country and re-entering on his Thai passport (no more visas and 90-day
reporting). Does anyone know which neighboring countries don’t require a visa
for US citizens? Hopefully, he won’t have any trouble re-entering Thailand with
his Thai passport the day after he leaves on his US passport. Or not? Anyone
have a similar experience?

[asiaexpat]

He can fly to KL (Malaysia) using his US passport and enter Malaysia with US passport. Leave Malaysia using US passport and enter Thailand with his Thai passport. My son did this without a problem.

[soundman]

Moved to Visa section.

[buddha02]

He can fly to KL (Malaysia) using his US passport and enter Malaysia with US passport. Leave Malaysia using US passport and enter Thailand with his Thai passport. My son did this without a problem.

My concern is that Immigration officials at the airport in Bangkok will ask why he doesn't have a re-entry visa in his US passport since he has a roundtrip ticket. If they do, he will need to admit that he's returning on his Thai passport. Dual citizenship in Thailand is illegal after age 20. Do officials routinely ignore this contradiction?

[lopburi3]

Dual citizenship is not illegal at all for Thailand or US.

As said by air it should not be a problem - especially if he uses the auto gates on return. But even using immigration officer the only question would be why no departure card copy - they will still have to allow entry but could take talking to higher level.

[Mario2008]

He can fly to KL (Malaysia) using his US passport and enter Malaysia with US passport. Leave Malaysia using US passport and enter Thailand with his Thai passport. My son did this without a problem.

My concern is that Immigration officials at the airport in Bangkok will ask why he doesn't have a re-entry visa in his US passport since he has a roundtrip ticket. If they do, he will need to admit that he's returning on his Thai passport. Dual citizenship in Thailand is illegal after age 20. Do officials routinely ignore this contradiction?

Dual citizenship is not illegal, also not after age 20. Age 20 is merely the age at which you can renounce your Thai citizenship.

At airports exit stamps from the country you are coming from are not checked. many countries do not issue an exit stamp anyway.

[samran]

He can fly to KL (Malaysia) using his US passport and enter Malaysia with US passport. Leave Malaysia using US passport and enter Thailand with his Thai passport. My son did this without a problem.

My concern is that Immigration officials at the airport in Bangkok will ask why he doesn't have a re-entry visa in his US passport since he has a roundtrip ticket. If they do, he will need to admit that he's returning on his Thai passport. Dual citizenship in Thailand is illegal after age 20. Do officials routinely ignore this contradiction?

There is nothing to ignore. Between ages 20 and 21 a child born to a foreign parent who also has the citizenship of that foreign parent can, if they so wish, chose to renounce their Thai citizenship during that window of time.

If they don't, there is no penalty and they continue on with both citizenships as they had before.

The fact that this choice can be made from age 20 is often confused by people as being a time when one 'must' chose. There is nothing however in the legislation which mandates compulsory chosing of citizenship during that one year window.

To answe the question however, your son departs Thailand on the US passport. He can fly anywhere he wants in SE Asia (Myanamar excepted) and enter that country without the need for a visa. He can turn around and leave the same day if he wants, re-entering Thailand.

If he uses a LCC he'd be going via Don Muang, in which case he'd be stamped in. If via Suvuanaphumi he has the choice of using automatic gates where he won't have to interact with anyone.

Edited May 6, 2013 by samran

[Arkady]

He can fly to KL (Malaysia) using his US passport and enter Malaysia with US passport. Leave Malaysia using US passport and enter Thailand with his Thai passport. My son did this without a problem.

My concern is that Immigration officials at the airport in Bangkok will ask why he doesn't have a re-entry visa in his US passport since he has a roundtrip ticket. If they do, he will need to admit that he's returning on his Thai passport. Dual citizenship in Thailand is illegal after age 20. Do officials routinely ignore this contradiction?

Dual citizenship is not illegal, also not after age 20. Age 20 is merely the age at which you can renounce your Thai citizenship.

At airports exit stamps from the country you are coming from are not checked. many countries do not issue an exit stamp anyway.

The wording in the 1992 2nd version of the 1965 Thai Nationality Act that provided for automatic cancellation of Thai nationality if half Thais failed to report in before the age of 21 with a declaration that they were giving up their other citizenships was conveniently deleted from the 1992 3rd version. Obviously some very important toes had been inadvertently stepped on to get new legislation overturned three weeks later. So the provision to renounce Thai nationality at age 20 is just an option to give it up, in case it is desired to retain another nationality that requires evidence of renunciation of Thai nationality. This provision is now redundant, since you can voluntarily give up Thai nationality at any time after 21 by providing evidence of another nationality.

Fly back to Thailand to Swampy and use the automatic gates. If they don't work and you get hassled ask to see a supervisor and cite Section 34 of the 2007 Thai Constitution,

"No person of Thai nationality shall be deported or prohibited from entering the Kingdom."

Refusing a Thai citizen entry to Thailand on his Thai passport is a clear violation of the constitution that I believe is unchallengeable and you could sue the Immigration officer in the Administrative court for this. There is nothing in the Constitution or even the Immigration Act that gives them any right to refuse entry to a Thai, no matter how many other passports they have.

[asiaexpat]

OP, my wife has arrived on a new passport with noting in it, my son did just what your son is about to do with not questions asked. My son does not even speak Thai and managed to get in without a hassle.

[NBD]

Would it actually be illegal for him to just let his visa lapse, since his Thai citizenship gives him the right to be here anyway?

[Mario2008]

Immigration takes the view that if you entere Thailand on a foreign passport, you are subject to immigration laws and will be on overstay if you let your permission to stay laps. Can't answer the question how a judge will regard that.

[lopburi3]

But can answer he would be considered overstay by immigration and asked to pay normal 500 baht per day fine for reports here. This is why governments do not like dual nationality - too many 'what if' situations that current laws do not address.

[Mekong Bob]

Dual citizenship is not illegal at all for Thailand or US.

As said by air it should not be a problem - especially if he uses the auto gates on return. But even using immigration officer the only question would be why no departure card copy - they will still have to allow entry but could take talking to higher level.

When exactly did the dreaded Thai Revolutionary Council Order No. 337 get overturned? I recall that order being in effect in the late-1970s and early-1980s, but don't know which Act overturned it.

Thanks!

[samran]

Nationality Act of 1992 (version 3) effectively allowed for dual citizenship and for Thai citizenship to born to a Thai parent.

The 4th revision in 2008, as I understand effectively addresses your question. That revision to the act effectively gave Thai citizenship to anyone born in Thailand since the revolutionary decree but before 1992, so long as they could prove an on going link to Thailand. This can be done by application at the ampur, rather than special branch and the MOI.

[Mekong Bob]

Nationality Act of 1992 (version 3) effectively allowed for dual citizenship and for Thai citizenship to born to a Thai parent.

The 4th revision in 2008, as I understand effectively addresses your question. That revision to the act effectively gave Thai citizenship to anyone born in Thailand since the revolutionary decree but before 1992, so long as they could prove an on going link to Thailand. This can be done by application at the ampur, rather than special branch and the MOI.

Thanks, Samran. So, kids born to Thai mothers and non-Thai fathers, were denied Thai citizenship during the period 1975(?) thru 2007 (more than 30-year period). Their birth certificate would show mother's citizenship to be Thai, father's citizenship to be American (or some other), and the child's citizenship to be "not Thai, according to Order 337."

(In Thai: ไม่ได้สัญชาติไทย ตามคำสั่งของคณะปฏิวัติฉบับที่ 337)

The child's mother cannot register the child on her Thai Household Registration because the child is not Thai. Instead, the local District Office adds the child's name to the Homeowner's record as "an individual unlawfully residing in the Kingdom of Thailand, or as a temporary resident."

(In Thai: บุคคลที่อาศัยอยู่ในราชอาณาจักรไทยโดยไม่ชอบด้วยกฎหมายหรือในลักษณะชั่วคราว

30 years later, the Thai government overturns Order 337 and declares that these kids are entitled to immediate Thai citizenship.

You noted that this Thai citizenship issue can be fixed "by application at the ampur, rather than special branch and the MOI."

Are you sure about this? What documents are required: mother's Thai ID card, father's passport, marriage certificate, child's birth certificate, Household Registration? Is it possible that the upcountry District Officer is unfamiliar with such cases and will need to confer with the Ministry of Interior in Bangkok?

Please advise.

[Mekong Bob]

buddha02 writes

My 33-year-old son has both US and Thai citizenship. He lived
in the US for 15 years and 9 months ago he entered Thailand on his US passport
with a one-year non-immigrant visa. He wants to change his status by leaving
the country and re-entering on his Thai passport (no more visas and 90-day
reporting). Does anyone know which neighboring countries don’t require a visa
for US citizens? Hopefully, he won’t have any trouble re-entering Thailand with
his Thai passport the day after he leaves on his US passport. Or not? Anyone
have a similar experience?

What about being subject to Thai military draft? Is your son exempt?

[Mario2008]

Over 30 years old you are not called anymore for the draft, but might be placed in the reserve army to be called in times of war.

[Pib]

Dual Thai and U.S. citizenship is not illegal in either Thailand or the U.S. I seems many countries try to imply they don't prefer it, but few make it illegal. My wife has dual Thai and U.S. citizenship and she is definitely over 20. When she flies to the U.S. she uses her Thai passport to exit Thailand, U.S. passport to enter and exit the U.S., and then her Thai passport to reenter Thailand. Now, when I say "uses" XYZ passport I mean she only shows the Thai passport or U.S. passport to the Thai and U.S. Immigration officials, respectively. When checking in with the airlines you can show both passports because the airlines need to ensure you have the necessary visa and/or passport to enter the country you are flying to...like when a Thai citizen flies from Thailand to the U.S.---the airlines could care less about dual citizenship....the airlines just need to ensure they don't get stuck with having to return the customer free to the originating country because the customer didn't have the proper visa/passport to enter another country.

[tboxcar]

Yes, with regards to dual citizenship, my lawyers tell me it's quite possible. My wife is a Thai National and resident of the USA, but I have been told she can enventually hold a passport (dual citizenship) for both countries.

[mortenaa]

In case of dual citizenship (some people may have a foreign passport and Thai ID-card, but no Thai passport): Is it possible to stay in Thailand entering on a foreign passport, and get a extension of stay based on Thai citizenship?

[Mario2008]

In case of dual citizenship (some people may have a foreign passport and Thai ID-card, but no Thai passport): Is it possible to stay in Thailand entering on a foreign passport, and get a extension of stay based on Thai citizenship?

Yes, no problem at all. The rules specifically allow for this.

[ubonjoe]

A Thai can get a one year extension of stay at immigration for 1900 baht. The extension can be done with a visa exempt entry or any visa entry.

It would be best to get a Thai passport rather than getting an extension.

[mortenaa]

In case of dual citizenship (some people may have a foreign passport and Thai ID-card, but no Thai passport): Is it possible to stay in Thailand entering on a foreign passport, and get a extension of stay based on Thai citizenship?

Yes, no problem at all. The rules specifically allow for this.

Thanks!

A Thai can get a one year extension of stay at immigration for 1900 baht. The extension can be done with a visa exempt entry or any visa entry.

It would be best to get a Thai passport rather than getting an extension.

Yes, but some people might have issues carrying their Thai passport when going "home", as their (other) home country doesn't allow dual citizenship. I heard some people had issues, and had renounce their dual citizenship.

[ubonjoe]

There are some countries that do not allow dual nationalities (IE: Germany) and have requirements as part of the process of getting that nationality they have to renounce there other nationality.

Even having a Thai ID would be proof of Thai citizenship.

Typically for the extension of stay people show their birth certificates for proof of being Thai because they do not have an ID card.

Edited May 8, 2013 by ubonjoe

[tomross46]

He can fly to KL (Malaysia) using his US passport and enter Malaysia with US passport. Leave Malaysia using US passport and enter Thailand with his Thai passport. My son did this without a problem.

My concern is that Immigration officials at the airport in Bangkok will ask why he doesn't have a re-entry visa in his US passport since he has a roundtrip ticket. If they do, he will need to admit that he's returning on his Thai passport. Dual citizenship in Thailand is illegal after age 20. Do officials routinely ignore this contradiction?

If he comes in on a Thai passport, HE DOES NOT NEED TO SHOW HIS US PASSPORT.

[samran]

Bob - in between meetings so my response is brief.

In your childrens case, 1993 is when Thai citizenship would be re-established for your children given they had a Thai parent. In 2008, laws were further liberalised under the Nationality act to give access to Thai citizenship to those born on Thai soil but with neither parent being a Thai national (if born between 1971 and 1993).

[Joe Mamma]

My boy is a dualie too. He uses the Thai passport exclusive and no visa necessary for Thai citizen. No use for the US passport, and when ASEAN comes into effect, the Thai passport will open up all the cooperating countries for unlimited stays.

[Pib]

My boy is a dualie too. He uses the Thai passport exclusive and no visa necessary for Thai citizen. No use for the US passport, and when ASEAN comes into effect, the Thai passport will open up all the cooperating countries for unlimited stays.

I didn't know Thai passports are covered by the U.S. Visa Waiver Program. This U.S. govt web site doesn't show Thailand covered under the Visa Waiver Program which would mean he would need a visa if trying to enter the U.S. on this Thai passport...but I expect the airline wouldn't even let him on the plane to start the trip to the U.S. unless showing his U.S. passport which would prove he could enter the U.S./doesn't need a visa. But for most of this part of the world/ASEAN I can see where the Thai passport will cover entries without the need for a visa...or just the Thai ID card in some cases.

[lopburi3]

No use for US passport here but for entry/exit of the USA it must be used for anyone having US nationality. It also allows departure from Thailand to USA, and many other countries, without a visa requirement.

[Mur]

re the dual passport thing ( I have NZ and Irish,no probs) My wife was renewing her thai PP here in NZ in Dec and I spoke to the thai embassy boss in person and asked if it was illegal for thais to hold 2 passports, cos I've heard so many opinions. He gave me a knowing kind of look and said "it is not illegal, but we dont encourage it"