Easier Than I Thought

[ScottMallon]

Personally, I find going to immigration akin to nails on a blackboard. Anyhow, on Monday I went to Changwattana to have my non-imm O, (marriage) extended for another year.

Last year, I provided an income affidavit from the US Embassy. The male immigration officer tossed my in the trash and said, "This is nothing, I don't care about this." When I informed him that the Thai guidelines stipulated I bring it in and I had paid $50 bucks for it, he just shook his head, no...no...no. "This is nothing, anyone can do this." I informed him I had my US bank statements to accompany the affidavit and he still would not accept it. So I had to go home, get my Thai bank book, then come back the next day to see him.

I didn't do this the first time because I only averaged over 40,000 baht a month in my account. Some months I earned $4000, others I earned $1000. My US account showed I earned $4000-$6000 every month for the previous 12 months. Granted, I should have just brought in my Thai bank book but assumed it wouldn't be needed. Assuming always seems to get you in trouble. The guy looked at the Thai bank book, grunted, and approved my extension.

So this year, I made a concerted effort to avoid getting the same officer. Lunch break came and my number still hadn't been called, so my wife and I had our lunch while all the officers in the section had their lunch. For the life of me I don't understand why they don't stagger their lunch times but T.I.T. We came back and when my number was next to be called, there was one female officer finishing up and the guy I didn't want to deal with finishing as well. The female officer called my number, thankfully, and we went in. This time around I did the same thing, only I came with my Thai bank book / printout just in case. She gave the US bank statement and affidavit from the embassy a quick look, said, "You earn over 65,000 baht a month. Do you want to change this to a retirement visa?" Now frankly, I don't really care whether I'm on a marriage visa or retirement visa so I changed it on the spot.

We waited three hours before seeing her but once seen, it took 20 minutes to get the visa. So now I'm good to go for another year. Some of my visits to immigration have been nightmarish, others have been a breeze.

[lopburi3]

And next year your wife will not have to go with you and the only paperwork will be the financials and copy of passport/visa/extensions/departure card. Should be a lot easier and no need to return after 30 days.

[glegolo]

Yes I am sorry about the first guy. But I can understand that they are doubtful about you americans. Just filling in papers and get approved by your embassy without a hint of doubt.... While so many of us other people have to PROVE to our resp. embabbies what amount of income we do have.

So everyone knows that the chances of bluffing yourself through into extensions is easy, and so do also the immigrant-officers know...

So maybe you americans should take it as normal that you are being doubted....

Glegolo

[lopburi3]

Actually Americans and Australians and others use this system and it is what is required - the statement is an oath to your government that the information is true and subject to serious law enforcement if not.

[JLCrab]

I will spare you the much longer explanation but no American Embassy or Consulate anywhere in the world has the authority to authenticate documents. Such a procedure must originate in the USA and directly from the source of those documents be it bank, brokerage, pension agency, etc. It is the American policy that the documents that persons from other countries supply to their embassies in Bangkok could readily be forgeries and there would be no way for personnel at those embassies to determine their authenticity.

The Thai immigration officer always has the authority and discretion to ask of the American seeking an extension to supply corroborating documents.

Edited May 9, 2013 by JLCrab

[glegolo]

Yes I am aware of the fact that everything is possible to falsify. But tne difference is that i.e. the scandinavian embassies

do demand that the person bring original income-papers from the country in question.

While you americans, just sit down, fill in by hand a paper, sign it and promise that you are an angel, and than you

get your approved income-document from your embassy....

Or have I missed something???

Glegolo

[JLCrab]

Yes -- It is the policy of the US embassies anywhere in the world that those 'original income papers' you bring in could be total forgeries or ones that have the numbers / dates adjusted and that embassy staff in Bangkok do have the time, resources, and/or expertise to determine such.

This document authentication policy is described in detail on the Bangkok US Embassy website and is well known to the Thai Immigration authorities

Edited May 9, 2013 by JLCrab

[david555]

Yes -- It is the policy of the US embassies anywhere in the world that those 'original income papers' you bring in could be total forgeries or ones that have the numbers / dates adjusted and that embassy staff in Bangkok do have the time, resources, and/or expertise to determine such.

suppose all those affidavids should be copyd and send to your IRS ........i think a lot of money should have to be fined/ recovered.....as i remember those" nailed" Capone

[JLCrab]

Under the present procedures the US Embassy / consulate does not keep a copy of the affidavit.

The real problem that might arise is if someone obtains a sworn affidavit and then, when requested by the Thai Immigration officer for corroborating data, could not supply such data. Then, the Thai officials might notify the US Embassy that such person has likely made a false statement to a US government official which is a federal felony offense.

... And that is how much more recently they 'nailed' Martha Stewart

Edited May 9, 2013 by JLCrab

[glegolo]

Under the present procedures the US Embassy / consulate does not keep a copy of the affidavit.

The real problem that might arise is if someone obtains a sworn affidavit and then, when requested by the Thai Immigration officer for corroborating data, could not supply such data. Then, the Thai officials might notify the US Embassy that such person has likely made a false statement to a US government official which is a federal felony offense.

... And that is how much more recently they 'nailed' Martha Stewart

So I was at 100% corract than..... Again so you understand... You sit down, you wtite whatever income without any whatsoever proof and than you get a piece of paper from your embassy stating the same under pretences that you are in fact in real life is having this income that you stated.....

The rest is a load of words when defending this..... And thai immigration are more and more aware of this american style, and that put a shadow unfortunately on the rest of us..... sorry to say.....

Yes I can understand that your embassy is NOT keeping any copies.....

So that was cleared than....

Glegolo

[JLCrab]

So maybe you should drop a letter in the Suggestion Box at Chaeng Wattana urging that they no longer accept income affidavits from Americans and then you won't have to worry about your reputation being sullied by unscrupulous Yanks.

Edited May 9, 2013 by JLCrab

[NancyL]

As has been pointed out, the U.S. is not the only embassy realistic enough to know that they don't have the staff or resources to verify income documents. And yes, I personally know of Brits who have supplied faslified documents to their embassy/consulate.

[glegolo]

So maybe you should drop a letter in the Suggestion Box at Chaeng Wattana urging that they no longer accept income affidavits from Americans and then you won't have to worry about your reputation being sullied by unscrupulous Yanks.

Yes, maybe I should that, That should certainly be to the best.

Glegolo

[theoldgit]

I personally know of Brits who have supplied faslified documents to their embassy/consulate.

That's why the UK Embassy have printed "The British Embassy, Bangkok accepts no responsibility for the contents of this document" on the bottom of their letters.

[asiaexpat]

There is quit a difference in home country laws as well as cultural norms that dictate this situation. US law is very strict when sworn statements to the government are made. Also, American cultural norms dictate that one is an honest person until proven otherwise. This may not be the case in other countries, thus the different requirement to get the affidavit. Some may feel slighted (or jealous) that Americans have different laws and attitudes than their's, but my experience with Thailand immigration tells me the US affidavit is sufficient evidence of income just like that from other countries. Immigration may on occasion ask for additional documents to verify any submission in ones application.

[purushanti]

So I was at 100% corract than..... Again so you understand... You sit

down, you wtite whatever income without any whatsoever proof and than

you get a piece of paper from your embassy stating the same under

pretences that you are in fact in real life is having this income that

you stated.....

The rest is a load of words when defending this..... And thai

immigration are more and more aware of this american style, and that put

a shadow unfortunately on the rest of us..... sorry to say.....

Yes I can understand that your embassy is NOT keeping any copies.....

So that was cleared than....

Glegolo

Same old, same old assumption that Americans are pretending they have real incomes, as you indicate. It is merely an assumption, and not backed up by what I know of my fellow Americans. Probably, according to human nature and statistical probility, there has been a violation or two of ethical procedure in this matter, but this is human nature, not American. Their karma will out the few eventually. Please do not judge your fellow forum members by their nationality.

And the Americans still have to back up the notarizations with pertinent documentation presented to the Thai Immigration staff, an understandable request upon their part, in effect equaling the steps people from other countries have to go thru.

Edited May 9, 2013 by lopburi3
Correct quote/font

[glegolo]

So I was at 100% corract than..... Again so you understand... You sit

down, you wtite whatever income without any whatsoever proof and than

you get a piece of paper from your embassy stating the same under

pretences that you are in fact in real life is having this income that

you stated.....

The rest is a load of words when defending this..... And thai

immigration are more and more aware of this american style, and that put

a shadow unfortunately on the rest of us..... sorry to say.....

Yes I can understand that your embassy is NOT keeping any copies.....

So that was cleared than....

Glegolo

Same old, same old assumption that Americans are pretending they have real incomes, as you indicate. It is merely an assumption, and not backed up by what I know of my fellow Americans. Probably, according to human nature and statistical probility, there has been a violation or two of ethical procedure in this matter, but this is human nature, not American. Their karma will out the few eventually. Please do not judge your fellow forum members by their nationality.

And the Americans still have to back up the notarizations with pertinent documentation presented to the Thai Immigration staff, an understandable request upon their part, in effect equaling the steps people from other countries have to go thru.

Yes and reason for this "back up the notarizations with pertinent documentation is that thai Immigration knows that you do NOT need to backup proofwise your income towards your own embassy. And your embassy just blindly sign whatever income you present to them. While the rest of the world does NOT have to do that at all...... Maybe this says something...

This is not jealousy, this is just fact that quite a few knows about, even though most of you americans deny it.....

Glegolo

[Lite Beer]

Off Topic posts have been removed