Retirement - New Rules For Renting?

[mike_rad]

So went into Jomtein office today with all the documentation for my extension. Everything was in order except the receipt from the apartment here in Pattaya. It had their stamp plus rent and deposit paid which is all I've ever needed for previous renewals They didn't like it, said I had to show a contract. When I queried this they replied saying I have to show a 6 month rental contract. I don't even know if that's possible at this place. As I just said, I've never had to show such a thing before - all my previous renewals have been at Jomtien.

Anyone heard of new rules or are they just playing silly buggers?

[Maestro]

It seems an unusual rule and I wonder if a superior officer would overrule that requirement. A foreigner, whether on a retirement extension or not, should be free to change his residence at any time he chooses.

[POMPOUI]

I'm on a ED visa. And had to give one to.

[Maestro]

Another thought: when you rent an apartment you are the possessor of this apartment for the duration of the rental period. Within 24 hours of arrival, submit the form TM.30 Notification Form for House Master, Owner, or the Possessor of The Residence Where Aliens Have Stay to immigration, listing yourself as the foreigner having arrived. Keep a copy of this form and of he receipt that immigration gives you, then take a copy of both with you for the 90-day report.

Or get a TM.13 Yellow House Registration Book from the district office.

[Gerald14]

As far as I know if you are on a retirement visa there is no rule for renting in fact when ever I did mine no one ever asked. I would escalate this to the immigration officer superiors, but hopefully they won't wear a grudge and make your life more difficult

[mike_rad]

It seems an unusual rule and I wonder if a superior officer would overrule that requirement.

There was a girl at a desk who checked everthing and then asked, buy or rent? I said rent and was then told the receipt wasn't enough. I appealed this and was directed to an officer who looked like he was the superior. He was the one who said I need a 6 month contract.

It's crazy. This has never been requiired before.

[david555]

When i went for my residence attestification to obtain Thai driving liscence i had the contract with me also water /elec/rent receipt (all in one ) and they needed even copy from the renting contract wich i did not bring ..., the lady however was so friendly to just let me make the copy in the shop besides Jomtien 5 , even not loosing my que , and made the certificate at once , no come back later, or next day , straight done , this was by august last year , so seems nothing newly...,i have year contract ,

but i understand that this should not be needed for all so long rent periode

[Suradit69]

I seem to recall something that appeared recently about the police or Immigrations cracking down on hotels and other places that provide accommodation to foreigners that are not complying with regular reports of details of foreign residents. Can't recall if it was a general thing or some place specific like Phuket.

Anyway, possibly this is the other side of that increased enforcement effort, checking to see if places renting long term to foreigners are providing documentation to Immigrations in a timely manner.

Ah yes this is the report. Although it's specific to Phuket, maybe there's a general increased effort to verify where foreigners are residing.

Posted 2013-03-30 06:09:48

Phuket immigration warns of drive on foreign stay reports

PHUKET: -- The Immigration Police have urged all hotels, resorts, and other accommodation providers, including owners of villas for rent, must begin reporting details of foreigners staying with them by the end of April, or face prosecution.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/629542-phuket-immigration-warns-of-drive-on-foreign-stay-reports/?hl=%20crackdown%20%20phuket

[metisdead]

A post promoting illegal activities has been removed.

[Maestro]

...Anyway, possibly this is the other side of that increased enforcement effort, checking to see if places renting long term to foreigners are providing documentation to Immigrations in a timely manner...

When you rent a place (apartment or house) I doubt that it is the owner's responsibility to report your arrival with the form TM.30 to immigration. I believe this is your responsibility, as with the lease contract you take possession of the place and become head of the household.

[Suradit69]

...Anyway, possibly this is the other side of that increased enforcement effort, checking to see if places renting long term to foreigners are providing documentation to Immigrations in a timely manner...

When you rent a place (apartment or house) I doubt that it is the owner's responsibility to report your arrival with the form TM.30 to immigration. I believe this is your responsibility, as with the lease contract you take possession of the place and become head of the household.

Well a couple of years ago Immigrations in Chonburi demanded information, passport copies of all foreigners resident in our condo, whether owners or renters, be collected by the condo management. We were told that if you applied for extension of stay and you weren't registered by management, your application would be rejected. The impression we were given was that this would be a regular requirement.

I don't know if anyone's application for extension was ever rejected for lack of registration by management and since that one exercise I've never again been asked by the manager for anything of this sort, but in March in Bangkok as well the police said that hotels and guesthouses were expected to report the presence of foreigners on a regular basis and that this requirement would be extended to other provinces. (Quotation found in the newspaper we're not supposed to quote here).

I know this is not what the OP was talking about, but I was simply saying that the police seem to be stepping up verification of residences for foreigners and in Pattaya they included reports by management of owners and renters of condos a few years ago, so it could happen again.

Capt Angkhan Yasanop confirmed that this includes owners of private homes when they have foreign friends or relatives staying with them, whether they pay for accommodation or not.

“It is the law that the owner of a residence or a hotel manager who has foreign guests staying must report to the local Immigration Office within 24 hours. It is also Royal Thai Police policy to enforce this,” Capt Angkhan said.

“We are trying to publicise this before we begin doing random checks.

“This campaign will help in locating foreigners in Phuket. At the moment, whenever we have to contact them [for example missing person cases] it is hard to find them, so this will be useful.

“Also, it is convenient for everyone – the owner or manager, the Immigration Police and other relevant departments – to check the basic information on each foreigner visiting the island. If someone is living here illegally or has a criminal record, we can find out more easily.”

- See more at: http://www.thephuketnews.com/phuket-immigration-warns-of-drive-on-foreign-stay-reports-38280.php#sthash.JZPgOIsZ.dpuf

Edited May 9, 2013 by Suradit69

[Sydebolle]

What works out nicely is to ask them to give you a copy of the regulation for your lawyer, as you have no clue what it is all about. It will not make you the most popular bloke on the block but all such "deviations" usually grind to a screeching halt once you ask for the official wording. Keep the sheepish look on your face; they'll think that you're the ultimately idiot.

They want paper, give them paper. This is the only way they can cover their lack of self-confidence and inferiority; mind you, they are all jealous that you're on the retirement ticket renting a place which exceeds their official pay check and even ill-gotten fees do not only not take them there but it is - in their eyes - bluntly unfair

[ubonjoe]

...Anyway, possibly this is the other side of that increased enforcement effort, checking to see if places renting long term to foreigners are providing documentation to Immigrations in a timely manner...

When you rent a place (apartment or house) I doubt that it is the owner's responsibility to report your arrival with the form TM.30 to immigration. I believe this is your responsibility, as with the lease contract you take possession of the place and become head of the household.

Title of TM30 "NOTIFICATION FROM FOR HOUSE-MASTER, OWNER OR THE POSSESSOR OF THE RESIDENCE WHERE ALIEN HAS STAYED".

It is not done by the Alien.

Even reading the text of the form indicates that.

The Alien would use a TM28 to report a change of address or their stay of more than 24 hours in a province.

Edited May 10, 2013 by ubonjoe

[Mario2008]

Indeed, both foreigner and hoseowner must report the stay, with the houseowner having the possibility of registering the stay at the local police station while a foreigner must report to immigration.

[ubonjoe]

I doubt very much the police would accept the TM30 now.

Perhaps back when there were very few immigration offices that would work.

[candypants]

It seems an unusual rule and I wonder if a superior officer would overrule that requirement.

There was a girl at a desk who checked everthing and then asked, buy or rent? I said rent and was then told the receipt wasn't enough. I appealed this and was directed to an officer who looked like he was the superior. He was the one who said I need a 6 month contract.

It's crazy. This has never been requiired before.

interesting, i have been in the same house for 12 years and never received a receipt or had a contract, lt alone been asked to show one.

Edited May 10, 2013 by candypants

[mike_rad]

It seems an unusual rule and I wonder if a superior officer would overrule that requirement.

There was a girl at a desk who checked everthing and then asked, buy or rent? I said rent and was then told the receipt wasn't enough. I appealed this and was directed to an officer who looked like he was the superior. He was the one who said I need a 6 month contract.

It's crazy. This has never been requiired before.

interesting, i have been in the same house for 12 years and never received a receipt or had a contract, lt alone been asked to show one.

This is what makes me think it's a new regulation - the fact that the young lady looked at the receipt, clearly showing their stamp plus rent and deposit paid as well as power and water meter readings, yet that wasn't enough and then asked for a rental contract.

[Gone]

I'm not suggesting you did or did not but sometimes it depends on what kind of respect you show when you go to Immigration. For instance I have see many time farangs getting refused any service at all because they were dressed in a cut off t-shirt.

[mike_rad]

I'm not suggesting you did or did not but sometimes it depends on what kind of respect you show when you go to Immigration. For instance I have see many time farangs getting refused any service at all because they were dressed in a cut off t-shirt.

I quite firmly but politely expressed my surprise at the application's rejection and at the 6 month demand, also stating firmly but politely that I didn't even know if I was going to stay 6 months in the same place, and to illustrate this then showed them three multiple re-entry permits in my passport to show I frequently leave and re-enter the country. I was as respectful as I could be, and said thank you when leaving

I certainly see your point. I was wearing a collared long sleeve shirt and long shorts and sandals. I was better dressed than many other farangs there.

[mike_rad]

What works out nicely is to ask them to give you a copy of the regulation for your lawyer, as you have no clue what it is all about.

I may have to do that but I don't rate my chances as that guy, the boss it seems, would not like to lose face.

They want paper, give them paper.

Tried that today at my place. I asked the woman at reception but she couldn't understand what I meant by contract. She suggested writing out another receipt but I said that wouldn't do. When I drew an A4 sheet of paper in the air she looked totally confused. She kept saying 1, 2 or 6 months up to you how long to stay. They obviously have never had such a request.

I'll sleep on it over the weekend but the way I'm feeling right now I may just take it as a sign to move on and find another country in which to live and spend my money.

Thanks to all who replied.

[BlackPuddingBertha]

"So went into Jomtein office today with all the documentation for my
extension. Everything was in order except the receipt from the apartment
here in Pattaya. It had their stamp plus rent and deposit paid which is
all I've ever needed for previous renewals They didn't like it, said I
had to show a contract."

Just wondering whether you extend based on declared income or bank deposit?

[mike_rad]

"So went into Jomtein office today with all the documentation for my

extension. Everything was in order except the receipt from the apartment

here in Pattaya. It had their stamp plus rent and deposit paid which is

all I've ever needed for previous renewals They didn't like it, said I

had to show a contract."

Just wondering whether you extend based on declared income or bank deposit?

Combination thereof.

[BlackPuddingBertha]

They want paper, give them paper. This is the only way they can cover their lack of self-confidence and inferiority; mind you, they are all jealous that you're on the retirement ticket renting a place which exceeds their official pay check and even ill-gotten fees do not only not take them there but it is - in their eyes - bluntly unfair

True and pathetic.

[BlackPuddingBertha]

Just wondering whether you extend based on declared income or bank deposit?

Combination thereof.

I wonder if it would go more smoothly if you based it entirely on the bank deposit?

[Jingthing]

Disturbing silliness at immigration.

Sorry to hear about it.

Now I am wondering whether they will want more paper for those of us who do own places.

I have never had to document that. I do provide a utility bill with my name on it. They usually ask if I own or rent and that is that.

[mike_rad]

Just wondering whether you extend based on declared income or bank deposit?

Combination thereof.

I wonder if it would go more smoothly if you based it entirely on the bank deposit?

I don't know for sure but all previous renewals have been by the combination method.

[mike_rad]

Disturbing silliness at immigration.

Sorry to hear about it.

Now I am wondering whether they will want more paper for those of us who do own places.

I have never had to document that. I do provide a utility bill with my name on it. They usually ask if I own or rent and that is that.

Don't know for sure but the impression I get is that owners have an easier run.

[Jingthing]

Disturbing silliness at immigration.

Sorry to hear about it.

Now I am wondering whether they will want more paper for those of us who do own places.

I have never had to document that. I do provide a utility bill with my name on it. They usually ask if I own or rent and that is that.

Don't know for sure but the impression I get is that owners have an easier run.

Seems unfair.

[Chao Lao Beach]

I presume this is for a retirement extension, are other people getting the same sillyness on marriage as well?

I know a chap who never spends more than a couple of month in one place, he has an enclosed pickup and goes monthly rates in hotels all over Thailand.

Is This just for Pattaya?

Edited May 10, 2013 by Chao Lao Beach

[david555]

It is not so uncommon , i am 5 years in Thailand , and only the first time as a stay 1 month in VT 5 i had no contract , only receipt payment as a tourist first time Thailand

After that 6 months VT 1 with a contract , after that 1 year Jomtien Beach paradise with Contract ( American owner ) , and now 3 years 1 year contract from Thai Goverment (national housing ) so it seems even for Thais not so uncommon ....... only they title it "Appartment lease agreement " ,

but Immigration call it to us as whe are used to " Contract " , is same system paper as in western world ...!!

I only find the 6 months needed a little over the top for some people ...

Edited May 10, 2013 by david555