Montclair Wine

[topt]

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Thanks Grant. Presume distributor is also importer (IE that is where the tax is applied for imported wines) and do you know what sort of margin/mark up they would normally make?

In a lot of cases the importer is connected to the distributor but it's not strictly monogamous. In terms of margins, there's no "set" or agreed upon amount, but that being said, anywhere between 30-100% seems to be in the ball park.

thanks - I was just wondering how many people were taking their cut (and how much) before it got to us

[topt]

Better if you go on drinking beer

I do as well.....I like a bit of variety......

[balo]

Without reading the whole thread , what is the best box wine in Thailand ? Still Mont clair ? 5 litre box is 960 baht at Makro.

[wazzadg44]

Mont Clair at Super Cheap 848 Baht-bought yesterday.Still think ok when having one glass per evening with a meal.

[xylophone]

Without reading the whole thread , what is the best box wine in Thailand ? Still Mont clair ? 5 litre box is 960 baht at Makro.

Main subject of discussion on this thread.......... http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/796423-best-of-the-boxed-wines/

[steelepulse]

Slightly O/T but on bahtsold in the Phuket section there is a private collection of wines being sold at "50% off". Might be worth a look for those that want something better than boxed wine.

[topt]

Slightly O/T but on bahtsold in the Phuket section there is a private collection of wines being sold at "50% off". Might be worth a look for those that want something better than boxed wine.

Could be interesting depending on what it is 50% of........plus unfortunately I am not in Phuket

[GrantSmith]

This, this is what we should be happening with any current or future wine glut! Instead of shipping it off in bulk and turning into an inferior product!

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-03-23/volunteers-turn-excess-grapes-into-money-for-homeless-charity/6342374

[GrantSmith]

Here's a good article I found on the interwebs about the Fruit/Flavoured wine...

http://www.vineyardpaul.com.au/flavoured-wine-is-part-of-our-future/

Bottom line... Proper labelling, I'd also add in correct marketing of the product as well..

[grumpyoldman]

Anyway, whats the big hub-ub about fruit wines, grapes are fruit, no?

[xylophone]

Anyway, whats the big hub-ub about fruit wines, grapes are fruit, no?

Okay, I'll bite.........

If you read the article you will understand what is being said and this has also been repeated on this thread many times.

If you like fruit juice added to your wine (“wine means the product of the complete or partial fermentation of fresh grapes, or a mixture of that product and products derived solely from grapes") then no problem because we all have different tastes, HOWEVER if what is in the bottle is not clearly labelled, then that is misleading and in some countries is illegal.

So clearly label what the contents of the bottle (or cask) are, if they are not from grapes and all will be fine.

It's as simple as that.

[grumpyoldman]

Anyway, whats the big hub-ub about fruit wines, grapes are fruit, no?

Okay, I'll bite.........

If you read the article you will understand what is being said and this has also been repeated on this thread many times.

If you like fruit juice added to your wine (“wine means the product of the complete or partial fermentation of fresh grapes, or a mixture of that product and products derived solely from grapes") then no problem because we all have different tastes, HOWEVER if what is in the bottle is not clearly labelled, then that is misleading and in some countries is illegal.

So clearly label what the contents of the bottle (or cask) are, if they are not from grapes and all will be fine.

It's as simple as that.

O.K. fine, understood, but since grapes are fruit, would not all wine be considered fruit wine?

[xylophone]

Perhaps this will help (although I doubt it)...........

1). “Within the European Union, the term "wine" in English and in translation is reserved exclusively for the fermented juice of grapes”.

2).“As a body of reference in the area of vine and wine the OIV develops definitions and descriptions of the vitivinicultural products in order to contribute to international legal harmonization and to improve the development and marketing of vitivinicultural products.

The definitions of vitivinicultural products are included in the first part of the International Code of Oenological Practices.

This document constitutes technical and legal reference aiming to normalization of products of vitivinicultural sector and must be used as basis in establishment of national or supra-national regulations and should be imposed in international trade issues.

Definitions of different categories of vitivinicultural products :

· Grapes

· Musts

· Wines

· Special wines

· Mistelles

· Products derived from grapes, grape must or wine

· Spirits, alcohols and spirit beverages of vitivinicultural origin”

3). “An alcoholic drink made from fermented grape juice”.

4). “By law: wine means the product of the complete or partial fermentation of fresh grapes, or a mixture of that product and products derived solely from grapes”. (Food Standards Code)

[grumpyoldman]

"(although I doubt it)..........." Thats right, because I think I have a pretty good argument, if A=B (grapes=fruit) and A=C (grapes=wine) then B=C (fruit=wine).

[xylophone]

"(although I doubt it)..........." Thats right, because I think I have a pretty good argument, if A=B (grapes=fruit) and A=C (grapes=wine) then B=C (fruit=wine).

Sad, so sad.

"There's none so blind as those who will not see".

[grumpyoldman]

"Logic is the beginning of wisdom, not the end" - Leonard Nimoy

[GrantSmith]

"(although I doubt it)..........." Thats right, because I think I have a pretty good argument, if A=B (grapes=fruit) and A=C (grapes=wine) then B=C (fruit=wine).

Whilst in theory your argument may have merit, it has been established and agreed upon, that, for an alcoholic beverage to be deemed "Wine" it must contain 100% grape content.

Anything else is to be termed "Fruit Wine"

End of discussion...

[nwh]

4L box of Peter Vella for around 799b is a nice easy table wine.

Nicer than Mont Claire.

never seen it. Where is it sold? The only reason we buy mont clair is that its available at makro/tesco and the cheapest which suits us when we're not eating fine food or just want a bit of quick alchool to relax

peter vella is at makro. no californian (pete vella is made in mondecino county would even touch it, it tastes like 96% vodka spiritus mixed with red grape juice with some white sugar added on top of this. BTW you pay 150Baht for a small glass (not a 3/4 of a red wine glass) in a bar here. I'm from Marin county, just a hop to some of the finest wineries in the world and I drink mont clair only coz anything else is 2 expensive here. A bottle of good red like cab, siraz, pino from chile, argentina or aus is below 10 bucks in Trader's Joe.

[xylophone]

"(although I doubt it)..........." Thats right, because I think I have a pretty good argument, if A=B (grapes=fruit) and A=C (grapes=wine) then B=C (fruit=wine).

Whilst in theory your argument may have merit, it has been established and agreed upon, that, for an alcoholic beverage to be deemed "Wine" it must contain 100% grape content.

Anything else is to be termed "Fruit Wine"

End of discussion...

Well put GS........and I thought I'd made that quite obvious by including references to the EU ruling, the International Union of Vine and Wine (OIV) definition and the Food Standards Code with regards to what constitutes "wine".

But too difficult for some it would seem.

[GrantSmith]

"(although I doubt it)..........." Thats right, because I think I have a pretty good argument, if A=B (grapes=fruit) and A=C (grapes=wine) then B=C (fruit=wine).

Whilst in theory your argument may have merit, it has been established and agreed upon, that, for an alcoholic beverage to be deemed "Wine" it must contain 100% grape content.

Anything else is to be termed "Fruit Wine"

End of discussion...

Well put GS........and I thought I'd made that quite obvious by including references to the EU ruling, the International Union of Vine and Wine (OIV) definition and the Food Standards Code with regards to what constitutes "wine".

But too difficult for some it would seem.

Yeah xylophone, it was pretty well summised by yourself, though unfortunately you will always find people who will just argue for the sake of it...

[grumpyoldman]

"(although I doubt it)..........." Thats right, because I think I have a pretty good argument, if A=B (grapes=fruit) and A=C (grapes=wine) then B=C (fruit=wine).

Whilst in theory your argument may have merit, it has been established and agreed upon, that, for an alcoholic beverage to be deemed "Wine" it must contain 100% grape content.

Anything else is to be termed "Fruit Wine"

End of discussion...

Montclair is Fruit Wine correct? Therefore isn't the thread title incorrect?

[xylophone]

"(although I doubt it)..........." Thats right, because I think I have a pretty good argument, if A=B (grapes=fruit) and A=C (grapes=wine) then B=C (fruit=wine).

Whilst in theory your argument may have merit, it has been established and agreed upon, that, for an alcoholic beverage to be deemed "Wine" it must contain 100% grape content.

Anything else is to be termed "Fruit Wine"

End of discussion...

Well put GS........and I thought I'd made that quite obvious by including references to the EU ruling, the International Union of Vine and Wine (OIV) definition and the Food Standards Code with regards to what constitutes "wine".

But too difficult for some it would seem.

Yeah xylophone, it was pretty well summised by yourself, though unfortunately you will always find people who will just argue for the sake of it...

Spot on GS...........esp if you read the post before this one!!!

[xylophone]

4L box of Peter Vella for around 799b is a nice easy table wine.

Nicer than Mont Claire.

never seen it. Where is it sold? The only reason we buy mont clair is that its available at makro/tesco and the cheapest which suits us when we're not eating fine food or just want a bit of quick alchool to relax

peter vella is at makro. no californian (pete vella is made in mondecino county would even touch it, it tastes like 96% vodka spiritus mixed with red grape juice with some white sugar added on top of this. BTW you pay 150Baht for a small glass (not a 3/4 of a red wine glass) in a bar here. I'm from Marin county, just a hop to some of the finest wineries in the world and I drink mont clair only coz anything else is 2 expensive here. A bottle of good red like cab, siraz, pino from chile, argentina or aus is below 10 bucks in Trader's Joe.

The Peter Vella which is sold here is produced by Siam Winery in Thailand and consists of imported grape juice which is fermented and has fruit juice added to it, so I believe it is different from the stuff sold in the USA.

I read an interesting article from a wine writer who was commenting on the addition of fruit juice to wine and he was querying how the alcohol content of the finished product could be as high as 13% when up to 25% of the mix could be fruit juice (in his opinion) and he suggested that in order to do this some alcohol would have to be added to it?

Food for thought and the possibilities for the finished product are endless, including possible pasteurisation of the grape juice and/or fruit juice, sulphur dioxide possibly added to both or some sort of preservatives for the fruit juice, and then the addition of alcohol from one source for another?

[GrantSmith]

"(although I doubt it)..........." Thats right, because I think I have a pretty good argument, if A=B (grapes=fruit) and A=C (grapes=wine) then B=C (fruit=wine).

Whilst in theory your argument may have merit, it has been established and agreed upon, that, for an alcoholic beverage to be deemed "Wine" it must contain 100% grape content.

Anything else is to be termed "Fruit Wine"

End of discussion...

Montclair is Fruit Wine correct? Therefore isn't the thread title incorrect?

Well yes, it is, but you'd need to take that up with the Moderators or the member who opened the thread...

[LivinginKata]

Montclair is Fruit Wine correct? Therefore isn't the thread title incorrect?

Well yes, it is, but you'd need to take that up with the Moderators or the member who opened the thread...

Well ... this Moderator is quite happy with this topic and title.

[nwh]

I notice that it is has become much easier to find a good red at a Thai restaurant in the last year or two.

Regarding temperature, I much prefer to drink red wine at room temperature. To me chilling red is decidedly uncivilized.

I had become accustomed to this hideous practice in LOS, but have been pleased recently to be offered a choice (cold vs room temp).

Occasionally however I still get offered ice (shudder).

no one in Eur. or the Americas would drink any alcohol at 33-36 C, which is the room temperature here. Even if it's from a fridge it'll be the proper temp. for red it's 17 - 20 C after a few minutes, unless you gulp it 1 glass/4 sec. yes some aircon'ed restaurants have wine cooler and there is no need to put the wine in a fridge.

[JetsetBkk]

I notice that it is has become much easier to find a good red at a Thai restaurant in the last year or two.

Regarding temperature, I much prefer to drink red wine at room temperature. To me chilling red is decidedly uncivilized.

I had become accustomed to this hideous practice in LOS, but have been pleased recently to be offered a choice (cold vs room temp).

Occasionally however I still get offered ice (shudder).

no one in Eur. or the Americas would drink any alcohol at 33-36 C, which is the room temperature here. Even if it's from a fridge it'll be the proper temp. for red it's 17 - 20 C after a few minutes, unless you gulp it 1 glass/4 sec. yes some aircon'ed restaurants have wine cooler and there is no need to put the wine in a fridge.

I keep my Montclair box in a fridge. The wine gets warm pretty quickly after being poured into a glass. The biggest problem I have is to find a glass that does not drip with condensation. So I use a tumbler - the condensation goes straight onto the coaster rather than dripping off the wine glass's base onto me.

Anyway...

[xylophone]

A tip for fellow wine lovers, this especially if you hate paying the exorbitant prices for wine here.

Apart from the occasional wine clearance sales in the likes of Tesco, I had often thought that on occasion, wines I had seen on display at my local Big C had been mispriced, because they were way below the normal price. Obviously I bought a few and tried them and if they were good I bought more.

Just recently I was talking to the GM of my local Big C store in Patong and he informed me that if they had wine which they wanted to clear out (slow-moving lines, discontinued lines, even those they thought were too old) that it was against company policy (or perhaps the law?) to advertise alcohol at discounted prices, or even promote alcohol, so they just surreptitiously changed the pricetags on the shelves, hoping that someone would spot this and buy it!

Then just a couple of days ago this happened and I spied some Napa Valley Merlot, 2009 (Stormont, I think) on sale at 216 baht, and just as I was looking at it someone came along and snaffled up a couple of bottles, leaving me with just one, which I took home and tried and it was very good........so I was a bit slow on this one but now I know what can happen I will carefully peruse the shelves to see if the prices have changed.

Something to look out for on trips to your supermarket perhaps.

[GrantSmith]

xylophone,

Yeah it is an offence against the Alcohol Control Act to "advertise" or "promote the sale of" alcohol. This is why, if you look at the Tops website (to get home delivery for example) you won't see any labels or bottle shots of anything alcoholic. There was a restaurant here in Bangkok that was fined (460,000 Baht) earlier this week for showing - what looks like - a glass of beer on their menu.

Advertising or Promoting the sale of alcohol is a really grey area and seems selectively enforced.

Back to wine, very much looking forward to heading to Spain in a couple of weeks to get stuck into some Rioja and Rueba del Duero.

[topt]

xylophone,

Yeah it is an offence against the Alcohol Control Act to "advertise" or "promote the sale of" alcohol. This is why, if you look at the Tops website (to get home delivery for example) you won't see any labels or bottle shots of anything alcoholic. There was a restaurant here in Bangkok that was fined (460,000 Baht) earlier this week for showing - what looks like - a glass of beer on their menu.

Advertising or Promoting the sale of alcohol is a really grey area and seems selectively enforced.

Back to wine, very much looking forward to heading to Spain in a couple of weeks to get stuck into some Rioja and Rueba del Duero.

I hope you mean Ribera del Deuro - or is that a new classification

I envy you as it is a while since I had a decent bottle of either Ribera used to be pretty unknown in the UK but not sure about now.