Popular Monk Returns To Japan

[webfact]

Popular monk returns to Japan
The Nation



BANGKOK: -- Popular Japanese-born Buddhist monk Phra Ajahn Mitsuo Gavesako has left the local clergy after 38 years and returned to his homeland, according to his followers.

The unexpected news - shocking for many of his followers - was covered by several online media outlets yesterday.

A source from the Maya Gotami Foundation, which is run by the monk's followers, confirmed the reports, quoting one of his close aides.

The reason for his departure remained unknown, although a nun at his temple, Mae Chin Pinpan, pointed to possible health issues. She said the monk had been suffering from diabetes for more two years.

Phra Mitsuo, 62, left for Japan after disrobing at Chana Songkhram Temple.

The foundation will hold a meeting in the evening and disclose details about the matter today, a report said.

Phra Mitsuo was the abbot of Pah Sunantha Wanaram Temple in Kanchanaburi, which is a branch of the Nong Pah Pong international forest temple in Ubon Ratchathani.

He was ordained at Nong Pah Pong Temple in June 1975 at the age of 24 and was among the first group of foreign disciples to study under Luang Phor Chah Supattho.


-- The Nation 2013-06-11

[Suradit69]

Phra Mitsuo, 62, left for Japan after disrobing at Chana Songkhram Temple.

I'm ignorant about such things. Does "disrobing" in this context mean he ceased to be a monk? Could he not have retained his status as a monk even back in Japan?

[camerata]

Yes, disrobing means he ceased to be a monk. There are many rules a Theravada monk has to follow, and it would be difficult in Japan where I think there are only one or two Theravadin temples. If he is suffering from diabetes he'd have little chance to exercise or choose his diet in the monkhood, so my guess is that's the reason he disrobed. According to breaking news in the Post, he will continue to contribute to Buddhism as a layman in Japan. I don't know if his parents are still alive, but if he had to return to Japan to look after them, that would also be near impossible as a (Theravadin) monk.

[khaowong1]

I know a lot of Thai monks who have diabetes who carefully watch their diet and excercise some what, watering plants, sweeping, even walking several miles each day, so my guess is it's probably his family. As you said, there are a couple of Theravada temples in Japan so even if he was home sick, that wouldn't be a burden, unless he had checked out these temples and didn't like the way they were run. Ajahn Chah's students are rather more strict than other Theravada temples I have been to. After 38 years in the monk hood, he don't have to take any lip from anyone anymore. I'm a little surprised that if he really wanted to go back to Japan, he didn't just find him some little out of the way place and become somewhat of a hermit. Maybe he fell in love with some nice Japanese lady. There's a lot of maybe's, and I doubt we will ever know for sure. Maybe.

[fabianfred]

I have often thought that Japan would be a nice place to practice as a Theravada monk.

The Japanese people are in need of a more correct form of Buddhism than their own Mahayana style..... IMHO.

[jaapfries]

This was not just any ordinary monk; Phra Mitsuo had, in fact, reached one if the highest levels of Nirvana; which would immediately dismiss phenomena such as 'being homesick', or 'wanting to take care of his ageing parents'. Likewise; "diabetes" would not be a reason to quit, that simply does not compute at the level Phra Mitsuo had attained. I dare say that it is much more likely that Phra Mitsuo has had some kind of experience with a member of the opposite sex (finally; monks ARE still MEN & human beings !) - a turn of events which would have had a dramatic effect on his psyche - hence the sudden "self-disrobing" and flight from Thailand.

This man is totally disappointed in himself and cannot stand to live in a country like Thailand, where he would be reminded of "the monkhood" at each & every turn !

I feel incredibly sorry for him, since he gave-up a nearly 4 decade dedication and 'learning-curve' for the attraction of the flesh . . . . . .

Phra Mitsuo: I hope you can manage to find yourself again and that you will not be too hard on yourself.

[fabianfred]

''..highest levels of Nirvana..'' well that's a new one on me. Perhaps you mean that he had attained to a high state of Ariyahood.

One would hope that after 40 years as a forest monk he would have attained at least Stream-entry. A sotapanna and even sakadagami can still live a normal family life.

An Anagami is beyond sensual pleasures so would find family life uncomfortable. An Arahant even more so.

Any of these four stages of attainment would not break even the five precepts, so to imply one might commit a Parachika offense wouldn't be possible.

One might be accused of such...there are plenty of evil people out there happy to discredit others.

It wouldn't bother an Anagami or Arahant if they had an illness, not would they care about gossip, they are simply waiting to finish this last human existence.

It is difficult to guess what his reasons are.....

[bankei]

This was not just any ordinary monk; Phra Mitsuo had, in fact, reached one if the highest levels of Nirvana; which would immediately dismiss phenomena such as 'being homesick', or 'wanting to take care of his ageing parents'.

I seriously doubt that. I met him once and he was extremely rude to me. maybe he became "enlightened" after that.

Bankei

[rockyysdt]

This was not just any ordinary monk; Phra Mitsuo had, in fact, reached one if the highest levels of Nirvana;

I am curious.

On what basis was he deemed to have reached the state of Nirvana?

[khaowong1]

This was not just any ordinary monk; Phra Mitsuo had, in fact, reached one if the highest levels of Nirvana;

I am curious.

On what basis was he deemed to have reached the state of Nirvana?

I was under the impression that Nirvana had only one level.. but then I don't claim to know everything. I probably wouldn't know Nirvana if it bit me on the butt. I've personally only met one monk who I thought might have reached enlightenment.. and that was Luang Por Jarun. but I never met Luang Ta Maha Boowa or Luang Poh Koon or Ajahn Chah.. So I can't say for sure.

[rockyysdt]

This was not just any ordinary monk; Phra Mitsuo had, in fact, reached one if the highest levels of Nirvana;

I am curious.

On what basis was he deemed to have reached the state of Nirvana?

I was under the impression that Nirvana had only one level.. but then I don't claim to know everything. I probably wouldn't know Nirvana if it bit me on the butt. I've personally only met one monk who I thought might have reached enlightenment.. and that was Luang Por Jarun. but I never met Luang Ta Maha Boowa or Luang Poh Koon or Ajahn Chah.. So I can't say for sure.

A British Monk practicing in the Theravada tradition in Thailand for many years confided recently that what some may refer to as levels (Enlightened & Fully Enlightened) was that in the first one gains a temporary foothold in such a state, whilst one Fully Enlightened is beyond regression.

He also confided that during his experience he was temporarily under the illusion that he was Fully Enlightened.

[khaowong1]

This was not just any ordinary monk; Phra Mitsuo had, in fact, reached one if the highest levels of Nirvana;

I am curious.

On what basis was he deemed to have reached the state of Nirvana?

I was under the impression that Nirvana had only one level.. but then I don't claim to know everything. I probably wouldn't know Nirvana if it bit me on the butt. I've personally only met one monk who I thought might have reached enlightenment.. and that was Luang Por Jarun. but I never met Luang Ta Maha Boowa or Luang Poh Koon or Ajahn Chah.. So I can't say for sure.

A British Monk practicing in the Theravada tradition in Thailand for many years confided recently that what some may refer to as levels (Enlightened & Fully Enlightened) was that in the first one gains a temporary foothold in such a state, whilst one Fully Enlightened is beyond regression.

He also confided that during his experience he was temporarily under the illusion that he was Fully Enlightened.

Ah, those crazy Brits. Like I said before, I don't claim to know everything. I sometimes barely claim to know anything.

[camerata]

The newspapers are reporting today that Mitsuo fell in love with a 52-year-old Thai businesswoman called Suttirat Muttamara and is now married to her.

[sms747]

so much for nirvana then!

[Payboy]

so much for nirvana then!

Think about it as nirvana in the pants.

[khaowong1]

Jaapfries, looks like you were right.. I would never have guessed it after spending 38 years in the robes.. I'm thinking they should raise the age of becoming a monk to maybe 30 or 40. By then you probably should have got all the wild oats out of the way.. Maybe not. Good luck to him. Hopefully she has some income coming in. Unless he got his PhD and can teach, I doubt he has any work place skills.

[camerata]

I think it is more about love - perhaps never before experienced - than about sex. Phra Khantipalo disrobed and married after many years as a monk, as did Ajahn Jagaro.

[bankei]

I have often thought that Japan would be a nice place to practice as a Theravada monk.

The Japanese people are in need of a more correct form of Buddhism than their own Mahayana style..... IMHO.

What makes you think Thai Buddhism is a more 'correct' form of Buddhism? Especially that associated with the Ajahn Chah group?

[fabianfred]

I have often thought that Japan would be a nice place to practice as a Theravada monk.

The Japanese people are in need of a more correct form of Buddhism than their own Mahayana style..... IMHO.

What makes you think Thai Buddhism is a more 'correct' form of Buddhism? Especially that associated with the Ajahn Chah group?

just my own arrogant ignorance... it is usual for us to believe that our own beliefs are correct and those of others wrong

[fabianfred]

I think it is more about love - perhaps never before experienced - than about sex. Phra Khantipalo disrobed and married after many years as a monk, as did Ajahn Jagaro.

The loneliness of the long distance.... monk ?

[slapout]

I have often thought that Japan would be a nice place to practice as a Theravada monk.

The Japanese people are in need of a more correct form of Buddhism than their own Mahayana style..... IMHO.

What makes you think Thai Buddhism is a more 'correct' form of Buddhism? Especially that associated with the Ajahn Chah group?

just my own arrogant ignorance... it is usual for us to believe that our own beliefs are correct and those of others wrong

No need to apologize for being human fred. I look at the life style/social interaction and what they do for others, instead of what we preceive as beliefs. At one time I thought this was a sure fire method, then found I was mistaken a few times and then wondered how many mistakes I was not aware off, that I had made.