Thailand's English Skills Lowest In S E A

[slipperx]

What % of thais will ever visit a native or bi-lingual english speaking country? Or would ever be given any real opportunities through speaking english?

Me not know. 3% ?

My guess is.. most of them just don't give a fuxk.

Well maybe the point is that the chosen business language of ASEAN is ....... English. So if they want to compete with Singapore, Burma and the rest then they are going to have to adapt.

Unfortunately at present the emphasis seems to be on making the maximum from corruption as quickly as possible because those involved are cute enough to see their 'jobs' might not be around for very long.

I read an article today about some Thai Mafioso in Phuket moaning that the Tourist Police and Marine Police and some other semi-official outfit want in on the 'corruption cake' and it was not on! I mean these people are openly admitting corruption at astounding depth and no one even raises an eyebrow.

So why would anyone in their right mind do any teaching voluntarily. The slightest slip or misinterpretation and you will be shopped. Those in charge couldn't give a hoot because they are all too busy at the trough of corruption to worry about any kid getting an education - jeez they are even closing the little schools. It is a scandal that no one seems to be picking up on.

As for English skills - Thailand is so far behind already but no one cares because they are either educated abroad already and can speak English Ok thank you or ignorant and uneducated in which case they cannot see what the benefits are anyway and no one is going to choose to enlighten them. Selfish Selfish society!

[MaxLee]

Tell me something I don't know...

[Loptr]

Rather ironic as Thailand has the highest foreign tourist count in SEA, while at the same time having the lowest English skills. What's wrong with this picture?

[lostmebike]

Seeing as some are on the subject of schools, I would like to add something I've noticed and probably some of you here have too.

It never fails to surprise me when I see a Thai English Teacher or the Head of Foreign Language Department meet a prospective Native Teacher and hire them on the spot just because he/she has white skin and is clean. No interview, no demo, hardly any chit-chat neither about the would-be Teacher's education or experiences. He/she is English or American so he/she must be a good Teacher! It's the old image way of thinking, looks good, must be good!

Like many other problems in our beautiful, host country, they run a lot deeper than we think. Most of which have been ingrained in Thai life.

[finnomick]

The problem is nothing to do with white teachers. The majority of Thais are taught by Thai teachers who are afraid to speak english (even if they could), and use Thai 95% of the time. I'm still astounded that the average government school graduate can say barely more than hello, even after 12 years of learning english. There are plenty of excellent speakers of english here, educated in private / international schools / overseas, but they are in the vast minority of all citizens.

...and of course, none of these excellent speakers of English can get jobs teaching the language. A lot of people do not place any value on a Thai degree whatever the subject and it's no surprise to know why.

A Canadian friend of mine who teaches English -- well, he doesn't exactly teach ' English ' he teaches american English, told me the local school needed another three English teachers. He knows that my wife has a very good command of the language, written and oral but he reckoned even if she could get a job she would only be ' worth ' 12000 baht a month whereas he earns about 30000 baht a month. Why ? She has far more chance of getting the children to understand what she is trying to teach them. If they really don't understand, she can revert to Thai and explain which most foreign teachers can not do.

I suppose I can dream on.....

[Thai at Heart]

Rather ironic as Thailand has the highest foreign tourist count in SEA, while at the same time having the lowest English skills. What's wrong with this picture?

A lot of the tourists come for services not so freely or cheaply available elsewhere in Asia?

[Mosha]

This was reported in news here months ago, despite a "Year of English Speaking" campaign

[Thai at Heart]

The problem is nothing to do with white teachers. The majority of Thais are taught by Thai teachers who are afraid to speak english (even if they could), and use Thai 95% of the time. I'm still astounded that the average government school graduate can say barely more than hello, even after 12 years of learning english. There are plenty of excellent speakers of english here, educated in private / international schools / overseas, but they are in the vast minority of all citizens.

...and of course, none of these excellent speakers of English can get jobs teaching the language. A lot of people do not place any value on a Thai degree whatever the subject and it's no surprise to know why.

A Canadian friend of mine who teaches English -- well, he doesn't exactly teach ' English ' he teaches american English, told me the local school needed another three English teachers. He knows that my wife has a very good command of the language, written and oral but he reckoned even if she could get a job she would only be ' worth ' 12000 baht a month whereas he earns about 30000 baht a month. Why ? She has far more chance of getting the children to understand what she is trying to teach them. If they really don't understand, she can revert to Thai and explain which most foreign teachers can not do.

I suppose I can dream on.....

That's what the Thai teachers get. It's all the wrong way up, around and back to front.

[oldsailor35]

The best way for Thai females to learn English, is for them at the age of 18, to work for 12 months in a Pattaya bar. Its amazing, they all learn so quickly, and with no set system !

[lostmebike]

Rather ironic as Thailand has the highest foreign tourist count in SEA, while at the same time having the lowest English skills. What's wrong with this picture?

A lot of the tourists come for services not so freely or cheaply available elsewhere in Asia?

I would also bet that many of the tourists that come here (especially in Phuket and Pattaya) don't speak English too.

Edited June 11, 2013 by lostmebike

[lostmebike]

The best way for Thai females to learn English, is for them at the age of 18, to work for 12 months in a Pattaya bar. Its amazing, they all learn so quickly, and with no set system !

You're a cruel man!

[Thereisnoif]

Rather ironic as Thailand has the highest foreign tourist count in SEA, while at the same time having the lowest English skills. What's wrong with this picture?

A lot of the tourists come for services not so freely or cheaply available elsewhere in Asia?

Difficult to speak with your mouth full.

[Soutpeel]

It does not take a Rhodes scholar to work out that Singapore was an English colony so English is a second language, also Malaysia. And that The Philippines was an American protectorate so their second language American English. However as we ALL know Thailand was never conquered so knowing everything, they do not have or need English as a second language !

Ok...but how come the English languge skills in Cambodia are far superior to Thailand on the most part among the natives ?...Using your colonial theroy one would expect everyone to speak french as a second language, but they dont English appears to be predominent second languge and of course their former colonial masters in Paris must be really p*ssed at this...

[lostmebike]

It does not take a Rhodes scholar to work out that Singapore was an English colony so English is a second language, also Malaysia. And that The Philippines was an American protectorate so their second language American English. However as we ALL know Thailand was never conquered so knowing everything, they do not have or need English as a second language !

Ok...but how come the English languge skills in Cambodia are far superior to Thailand on the most part among the natives ?...Using your colonial theroy one would expect everyone to speak french as a second language, but they dont English appears to be predominent second languge and of course their former colonial masters in Paris must be really p*ssed at this...

Let's hope so!

[happysanook]

5 countries make up all of SE Asia? Change the topic to reflect the true nature of the story is probably best.

[Thai at Heart]

5 countries make up all of SE Asia? Change the topic to reflect the true nature of the story is probably best.

What? Make Thailand feel better that they beat Laos?

Rounds of applause!!!!!!

[Noistar]

I have two sons, Thai American. Their English is very good, but I only speak to them in English. They both go to Thai schools, not international schools. One son is in regular class and the other is in HM the Kings class at the same school. The quality of teaching is different. in the Kings class the English teacher is from the USA. In the regular class they are Philippine or Indian.

When I came here in 1966, I was in the US Army and worked with Thais. Some of them were very fluent in English, but they were trained by the Army.

The problem with the English language usage in Thailand is oral communication and comprehension. The majority listen to the English and than translate it to Thai in their head. Professor Brown at AUA taught the total immersion program, learn by listening.

I was surprised to learn that my daughter's English teacher was Filipino. Her English ability isn't much better than Thais.

As you say, Thai English is "translate" - they really have no idea of how languages differ. 'Open the light' caught me out at first!

Witnessing the people who proudly show a Masters' degree in English then write indefensibly wrong 'how to speak English' books for Thais!!!

A degree in Thai earned in the first world would indicate the ability to communicate fluently, and the Thais then have the audacity to require foreign teachers to have a BA. Their degrees are little more than English GCSEs - a first world BA is in a different world!

Thailand hides from the fact that their education system is a farce, by ensuring that degrees are handed out like confetti.

[lostmebike]

But let's not all forget, this government will make sure all are ready for ASEAN, freely conversing in English everyday with their neighbouring countries.

The length and breadth of the country will be singing 'Auld lang syne' every new year and regularly meeting to discuss Jane Eyre's masterpieces, all over a bowl of Som Tam of course!

[paulmw]

And I thought Thailand wanted to be the ASEAN hub of education.

[pomchop]

I will never forget the first time I walked into a public high school up north and looked at the chalkboard...it was full of obscure sentence diagraming to include future participles and many things that I could vaguely remember from my USA high school days. "Wow" I thought. These kids are way beyond what I expected from a thai high school class. So I then turned to the class and starting speaking to them in English expecting that anyone who could diagram such complex sentences must be near fluent. WRONG. Most of them could not understand me at all and only a very few even dared to try and say anything in English.

Ultimately I learned that the Thai English teachers rarely speak English to the kids. The kids knew a lot of English words and could actually read and write half way decently. But as far as the spoken word forget it.

When I questioned how strange this seemed to me I was told that the school teaches for the tests. Money is appropriated to a lot of rural schools by the Bangkok authorities according to standardized tests that are given across the country. The higher the test scores the more resources. Problem was/is however that all of the tests coming out of Bangkok were WRITTEN tests only. No oral tests at all. So naturally the schools admin and teachers know this and they also know that they MUST concentrate their efforts to reading and writing if they want the resources. To teach speaking/understanding skills might be great for the kids but public schools who do that would likely score poorly on the written tests and lose money/teachers/resources as a result.

I understand that "teaching for the tests" is also quite common in many USA schools as well.

Unfortunately several years later nothing seems to have changed. The emphasis continues to be on the written not spoken word. I continue to be an oddity to the kids who seem to be amused by a farang who actually speaks to them in English and tries to get them to speak some of the many words that they know. Unfortunately most are too shy to try to say the words they know as they have very little confidence in their pronunciations.

IF IF IF the powers that be in Bangkok would change the English testing methods to oral exams with the emphasis on speaking skills I suspect there would be a major change in their abilities. They might not be able to then diagram a sentence but I think they might be better served to be able to carry on a conversation in English.

Of course giving oral exams is much more costly and expensive than just whipping up a standardized written tests. The oral tests would also put pressure on the Thai English teachers to SPEAK ENGLISH to the kids and many of them are just like the kids in that all that they learned was the written word and struggle to speak or understand English.

My two cents worth.

[slipperx]

I will never forget the first time I walked into a public high school up north and looked at the chalkboard...it was full of obscure sentence diagraming to include future participles and many things that I could vaguely remember from my USA high school days. "Wow" I thought. These kids are way beyond what I expected from a thai high school class. So I then turned to the class and starting speaking to them in English expecting that anyone who could diagram such complex sentences must be near fluent. WRONG. Most of them could not understand me at all and only a very few even dared to try and say anything in English.

Ultimately I learned that the Thai English teachers rarely speak English to the kids. The kids knew a lot of English words and could actually read and write half way decently. But as far as the spoken word forget it.

When I questioned how strange this seemed to me I was told that the school teaches for the tests. Money is appropriated to a lot of rural schools by the Bangkok authorities according to standardized tests that are given across the country. The higher the test scores the more resources. Problem was/is however that all of the tests coming out of Bangkok were WRITTEN tests only. No oral tests at all. So naturally the schools admin and teachers know this and they also know that they MUST concentrate their efforts to reading and writing if they want the resources. To teach speaking/understanding skills might be great for the kids but public schools who do that would likely score poorly on the written tests and lose money/teachers/resources as a result.

I understand that "teaching for the tests" is also quite common in many USA schools as well.

Unfortunately several years later nothing seems to have changed. The emphasis continues to be on the written not spoken word. I continue to be an oddity to the kids who seem to be amused by a farang who actually speaks to them in English and tries to get them to speak some of the many words that they know. Unfortunately most are too shy to try to say the words they know as they have very little confidence in their pronunciations.

IF IF IF the powers that be in Bangkok would change the English testing methods to oral exams with the emphasis on speaking skills I suspect there would be a major change in their abilities. They might not be able to then diagram a sentence but I think they might be better served to be able to carry on a conversation in English.

Of course giving oral exams is much more costly and expensive than just whipping up a standardized written tests. The oral tests would also put pressure on the Thai English teachers to SPEAK ENGLISH to the kids and many of them are just like the kids in that all that they learned was the written word and struggle to speak or understand English.

My two cents worth.

Interesting - but the Thai teachers can't speak English so how are they going to administer Aural exams? Thailand is not really interested in their future generations speaking English properly - they have neither the time, the inclination nor the understanding to implement it.

[NomadJoe]

Not really a fair test. English is an official language of both the Philippines and Singapore.

[paulmw]

5 countries make up all of SE Asia? Change the topic to reflect the true nature of the story is probably best.

What? Make Thailand feel better that they beat Laos?

Rounds of applause!!!!!!

Did they?

[smileydude]

I'm not surprised at the results since two of the 5 countries assessed were either colonized or occupied by English speaking countries (Singapore and Phillipines). You can go on and on about the reasons why Thai's aren't as fluent in English but at the end of the day it might not be a national priority. Take Japan and Korea as examples. From my experience the average Thai speaks or understands more english then most of their East Asian Brethen. The average IQ of the population of East Asians is one of the highest in the world at 105 yet their english skills are poor. Why? Because their education systems did not make it a priority. Will they lose out on globalization? I doubt it. Using english skills as a measure of how good a country's education system is is misguided. Of course being bilingual or multilingual will certainly benefit an indvidual especially since English is spoken in many parts of the world though by no means is it a gold standard to measure a country's educational system as so many believe this article implies.

Edited June 11, 2013 by smileydude

[Scott]

I'm not surprised at the results since two of the 5 countries assessed were either colonized or occupied by English speaking countries (Singapore and Phillipines). You can go on and on about the reasons why Thai's aren't as fluent in English but at the end of the day it might not be a national priority. Take Japan and Korea as examples. From my experience the average Thai speaks or understands more english then most of their East Asian Brethen. The average IQ of the population of East Asians is one of the highest in the world at 105 yet their english skills are poor. Why? Because their education systems did not make it a priority. Will they lose out on globalization? I doubt it. Using english skills as a measure of how good a country's education system is is misguided. Of course being bilingual or multilingual will certainly benefit an indvidual and English is certainly spoken worldwide though by no means is it a gold standard to measure a country's educational system as so many seem to imply.

That is an interesting point, but I think there is a very large pool of people who are fluently bilingual from having resettled overseas from both Korea and Japan. I think there are fewer Thai people in the same position.

[smileydude]

I'm not surprised at the results since two of the 5 countries assessed were either colonized or occupied by English speaking countries (Singapore and Phillipines). You can go on and on about the reasons why Thai's aren't as fluent in English but at the end of the day it might not be a national priority. Take Japan and Korea as examples. From my experience the average Thai speaks or understands more english then most of their East Asian Brethen. The average IQ of the population of East Asians is one of the highest in the world at 105 yet their english skills are poor. Why? Because their education systems did not make it a priority. Will they lose out on globalization? I doubt it. Using english skills as a measure of how good a country's education system is is misguided. Of course being bilingual or multilingual will certainly benefit an indvidual and English is certainly spoken worldwide though by no means is it a gold standard to measure a country's educational system as so many seem to imply.

That is an interesting point, but I think there is a very large pool of people who are fluently bilingual from having resettled overseas from both Korea and Japan. I think there are fewer Thai people in the same position.

I agree.

Statistically if I recall correctly the Asian countries with the most students studying in the US.

China

Korea

Taiwan

Edited June 11, 2013 by smileydude

[ratcatcher]

But let's not all forget, this government will make sure all are ready for ASEAN, freely conversing in English everyday with their neighbouring countries.

The length and breadth of the country will be singing 'Auld lang syne' every new year and regularly meeting to discuss Jane Eyre's masterpieces, all over a bowl of Som Tam of course!

I think Jane would be flattered were she alive, even though she was a figment of Miss Bronte's imagination.

The Thais of whom 99.9% have never probably heard of either would still be enjoying their slapstick comedy, game shows and likkae.

[Thai at Heart]

I will never forget the first time I walked into a public high school up north and looked at the chalkboard...it was full of obscure sentence diagraming to include future participles and many things that I could vaguely remember from my USA high school days. "Wow" I thought. These kids are way beyond what I expected from a thai high school class. So I then turned to the class and starting speaking to them in English expecting that anyone who could diagram such complex sentences must be near fluent. WRONG. Most of them could not understand me at all and only a very few even dared to try and say anything in English.

Ultimately I learned that the Thai English teachers rarely speak English to the kids. The kids knew a lot of English words and could actually read and write half way decently. But as far as the spoken word forget it.

When I questioned how strange this seemed to me I was told that the school teaches for the tests. Money is appropriated to a lot of rural schools by the Bangkok authorities according to standardized tests that are given across the country. The higher the test scores the more resources. Problem was/is however that all of the tests coming out of Bangkok were WRITTEN tests only. No oral tests at all. So naturally the schools admin and teachers know this and they also know that they MUST concentrate their efforts to reading and writing if they want the resources. To teach speaking/understanding skills might be great for the kids but public schools who do that would likely score poorly on the written tests and lose money/teachers/resources as a result.

I understand that "teaching for the tests" is also quite common in many USA schools as well.

Unfortunately several years later nothing seems to have changed. The emphasis continues to be on the written not spoken word. I continue to be an oddity to the kids who seem to be amused by a farang who actually speaks to them in English and tries to get them to speak some of the many words that they know. Unfortunately most are too shy to try to say the words they know as they have very little confidence in their pronunciations.

IF IF IF the powers that be in Bangkok would change the English testing methods to oral exams with the emphasis on speaking skills I suspect there would be a major change in their abilities. They might not be able to then diagram a sentence but I think they might be better served to be able to carry on a conversation in English.

Of course giving oral exams is much more costly and expensive than just whipping up a standardized written tests. The oral tests would also put pressure on the Thai English teachers to SPEAK ENGLISH to the kids and many of them are just like the kids in that all that they learned was the written word and struggle to speak or understand English.

My two cents worth.

My niece just came around and instead of reading printed articles from the Bangkok post, we dug out the Mr. Men.

What a pleasure it was reading Mr. Uppity.

I had forgotten how cleverly written these books are, with a moral side that Thailand could learn from a little. What a nice evening.

[Bagwan]

BMA schools told to improve math and language skills for students

BANGKOK, 11 June 2013 (NNT)-The Bangkok Metropolitan Administration (BMA) has convened a meeting with BMA school staff to raise the standards of education to prepare students for the formation of the ASEAN Economic Community (AEC).

Deputy Bangkok Governor Pusadee Tamthai, who chaired the meeting, said that the BMA has always emphasized the importance of education and wishes to prepare students at all BMA schools for the economic integration of ASEAN countries in 2015.

Joining the meeting are BMA school executives and coordinators. The Deputy Governor has presented them with a 3-point policy which includes the proper use of Thai language, mathematical strength and foreign language skills.

She said the objective of the meeting is to improve students’ skills in the mentioned areas which are key in their real life and daily living skills. The meeting also serves as a platform for educators to share their ideas and experience in order for them to move in the same direction in the national education improvement.

-- NNT 2013-06-11

I wonder if any of the attendees asked what the budget to achieve this target would be? My guess is that nobody asked for additional resources as they knew what the answer was already.

[thaikahuna]

Arai wa?

+1