Thai monks rebuked over 'ostentatious' jet ride

[Jawnie]

This is an unfortunate situation...it simply doesn't look good. I am a long time Buddhist and lived in Thailand for 2.5 years but was Buddhist many years before them. What really matters is the quality of the monk's renunciation. It is very difficult to say if the monks are attached to the wealth appearances or not but they probably are. It is unfortunate for these monks to be seen is this way but it appears to be the truth about them. In any case, they aren't setting the right example for renunciant monks.

[harrry]

http://en.luangpunenkham.com/

Our meter and connection cost round 3000 baht.

[Jools]

It's hardly practical to WALK everywhere. Taking a jet is just getting from one place to another. I would not describe it as "ostentatious". What about car rides??? Very difficult to understand the reasoning here. If they want to see "ostentatious" they need look no farther than the Catholic Church.

[webfact]

UPDATE:
Jet-setting monk 'to return next week'
The Nation



BANGKOK: -- Disciples of Luangpu Nen Kham Chattiko - who was identified as one of three monks seen aboard a private jet in a video clip that has drawn widespread criticism - said yesterday he would return next week from his trip abroad to resume his duties as abbot of Wat Pa Khantitham in Si Sa Ket's Kanthararom district.

The 34-year-old was one of a trio of monks wearing earphones and sunglasses and using a Louis Vuitton bag, in a clip that has been circulating on the Internet since last week, sparking public criticism at the "ostentatious display".

Si Sa Ket's Office of Buddhism director Virod Chaipanna made inquiries at the monastery on Monday and was told the monk had gone on pilgrimage abroad.

The Nation visited the monastery yesterday and was told by a male disciple, who gave his name as Kung, that the abbot often travelled by helicopter or jet provided by devoted disciples in response to urgent invitations to preach in other provinces. The disciple said that the critics of the video clip were motivated by envy.


-- The Nation 2013-06-19

[noitom]

I dont think any body could say anything bad about Buddhism in its self . It is well known to be the only teaching that can be proven to do what it say on the tin, I think even Einstein commented on that . The trouble is the culture itself in Thailand is changing Buddhism is becoming like all other religions . When walking into many temples one has to pass several "checkpoints collecting donations with all sorts of money spinning ideas to generate more cash. monks are obviously now expecting to be treated with the respect and better treatment for their position in the brotherhood.. The mods issued a warning about dont mention royalty or religion . neither are bad in principle but we can see the abuse of power by some involved in both;. the Thai general public I believe have just given up and accepted this is the Thai way and there is nothing anyone can do about it.... from my time in Thailand I think I have seen it worsen over the years , or maybe it has just become more noticeable or even less hidden.

It's the same thing with regard to Jesus and all the folks who have twisted his message around to cater to their own self interest.

[hgma]

Lottery win........lucky.........for sure a new wave of monks to be will arrive at the Wat in question to join the monk hood of happiness(lucky)

[hgma]

Lottery win........lucky.........for sure a new wave of monks to be will arrive at the Wat in question to join the monk hood of happiness(lucky)

Apologies....the lucky monk (40 bath ticket 6.000.000 bath) was NOT related to this lot.(with all my respect)

[itchybum]

'up yours'

[kotsak]

Someone said the following about Christianity.. I am wondering if there is a similar quote about Buddhism :>

"Christianity started out in Palestine as a fellowship; it moved to Greece and became a philosophy; it moved to Italy and became an institution; it moved to Europe and became a culture; it came to America and became an enterprise."

Edited June 19, 2013 by kotsak

[Tywais]

Comment taking a shot at moderators removed. If you see a problem with a post use the REPORT button.

[newermonkey]

It happens exactly the same in the Catholic Church and others religious congregations. I would eradicate religion from humanity if I could!

The song Imagine by McCartney should have changed the world, but unfortunately we still have religion steeped in stupidity.

I am a Buddhist but I don't follow any religion, but I do believe there is lots to find out about our Universe(s) and we may find "things" or "beings" to be very god like in the future.

[starkey_rich]

There is a lot more information about this lot on other forums.And you can openly discuss it.

[Time Traveller]

Who cares what these people do, as long as they are not telling the non-buddhists what to do like they normally are.

[itchybum]

There is a lot more information about this lot on other forums.And you can openly discuss it.

Agree.

What's the word...'sensitive' ? or....

[craigt3365]

There is a lot more information about this lot on other forums.And you can openly discuss it.

Agree.

What's the word...'sensitive' ? or....

"careful"? We don't want to get in trouble with the local authorities.

Edit: please no more comments regarding moderation.

Edited June 19, 2013 by craigt3365

[hookedondhamma]

What exactly are all those mons doing in Pantip plaza? Every time I go, I notice that there is a surprising number there. Please explain - someone.

Why not ask one? surely that would be more efficient than an assumed answer from someone who has never been in a thai temple. there are many, choose one and question away.

[lensta]

Sorry, but the Vinaya is the Vinaya. I was shocked by monk behavior six years ago when I first got here. Now I'm no longer shocked. I just realized that only about 10% of the monks in Thailand truly adhere to the Vinayas and most of those are forest monks or ascetics. But it 's the one's that go in for the "worldly pleasures" and social status within and outside the Sangha that concern me the most. I'm just a practicing layman, but I can tell when someone is missing the point. I just call a spade a spade; not a heart, diamond or club.

There is a quite famous monk in Thailand that has written several books on Thai Buddhism. In them he states that Thai Buddhism has moved so far from the teachings of Buddha with all the amulets, fortune telling,etc that goes on, it is now just a farce. Needless to say, the mainstream Thai Buddhist establishment don't like him very much, but can do little about it because he strictly follows Buddhist Rules.

[EyesWideOpen]

Buddhism is a series of teachings as far as I can tell. Few of which Thais actually follow from what I have seen here. It seems now to have turned into the religion of good luck, as Thai people faithfully go to the temple, and donate money in the hopes of receiving luck. The monks like these ones, and the Rolls Royce monk, are simply the beneficiaries of this odd system.

I have tried to carefully explain to my Thai girlfriend that in real Buddhism there is no big guy up in the sky carefully noting who is donating money the to the temple, and then dispensing out good luck to that person. But she does not believe me.....sigh.....

And yes Catholicism is equally bizarre and money focused.

Edited June 19, 2013 by EyesWideOpen

[Potosi]

It reminds me of this monk in his 50M baht Rolls Royce.

From As the guns roar, feelings harden among border evacuees:

A famous local monk arrived in the afternoon in his new Bt50 million Rolls Royce to provide amulets and words of assurance to the mostly poor villagers.

Better yet, the monk in the middle behind the red carpet is the very same like on the pic in the plane in the foreground. The same person. Caused uproar 2 years ago already.

[hyperdimension]

It reminds me of this monk in his 50M baht Rolls Royce.

From As the guns roar, feelings harden among border evacuees:

A famous local monk arrived in the afternoon in his new Bt50 million Rolls Royce to provide amulets and words of assurance to the mostly poor villagers.

Better yet, the monk in the middle behind the red carpet is the very same like on the pic in the plane in the foreground. The same person. Caused uproar 2 years ago already.

I'm not sure if it's the same monk, but here's a higher resolution version of the picture to check.

[oceanview]

Today brings news of a far more serious nature for the monkhood (should be its own thread) than ostentatious jet rides or having a flashy Rolls Royce:

Two Thai monks arrested in child sex scandal

Published June 19, 2013 - AFP

BANGKOK (AFP) – Thai police said Wednesday they had arrested two monks for procuring a 14-year-old boy to perform sexual acts with an abbot, in the latest scandal to shake the kingdom's Buddhist clergy. The pair, who deny any knowledge of the alleged abuse, could face up to 15 years in prison if convicted, Police Colonel Wirachon Bunthawi told AFP from the northern city of Chiang Mai.

"The abbot is still at the temple and we're waiting for an arrest warrant for him," Wirachon said. Based on the accounts of the victim and a driver, the two monks -- aged 20 and 23 -- are alleged to have taken the boy to see the abbot at the temple in Chiang Dao district in the Chiang Mai Province several times since February, police said.

The case comes in the wake of recent controversy in the Buddhist-dominated nation over footage posted on YouTube of three monks flying in a private jet, wearing earphones and sunglasses and travelling with a Louis Vuitton bag.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2013/06/19/two-thai-monks-arrested-in-child-sex-scandal/#ixzz2WfdVgBcU

Edited June 19, 2013 by oceanview

[vijer]

Err ahh, who cares. As far as we know that haven't molested any children, condoned the killing of innocent people by suicide bombers, etc.

[papa al]

Is the monk toward the rear playing a guitar?

Edited June 22, 2013 by metisdead
Font

[rubberduck]

The images from the video contrasted with the abbot's message on the temple's homepage that read: "The true core of those who preach Buddha's teachings is to not to own any objects at all."

"When Lord Buddha was alive, there wasn't anything like this. There were no cars, smart phones or cameras, so the rules were much simpler," said Nopparat. "While the monks need to keep themselves abreast of new knowledge, current events and technology, they are restrained to choose the appropriate tools."

He said one way to prevent the monks from misbehaving is for followers not to spoil them with valuable objects or vices. "In many cases, it was the followers who gave the monks the luxury. Some bought them sports cars. This is by no means necessary."

This HI-SO guys in orange missing the modest apprearance of spiritual teachers but have an arrogant and evil maffiosi look in their eyes, disgusting and shameful.

Edited June 19, 2013 by rubberduck

[Tchooptip]

It seems that posters can't ask any reasonable questions about Thai Buddhism or even state their perception of it for fear of censorship.

I don't see why not. In fact we have a Buddhism Forum where members can ask reasonable questions about Buddhism. The problem with perceptions is that they can be totally wrong and defamatory. It's worth noting that - whether we like it or not - "insulting religion" is against the law in Thailand.

Not only in Thailand, in every Muslim countries even harder,on the other hand laws or not insulting religions is not a proof of personal balance

[Tchooptip]

The jet was chartered by a devotee, so what`s the problem?

The problem is they should have refused the offer, simple as that

[beautifulthailand99]

It seems that posters can't ask any reasonable questions about Thai Buddhism or even state their perception of it for fear of censorship.

If you want a free country move. End of.

[beautifulthailand99]

Here is the website of this monk

http://en.luangpunenkham.com/about/history/brief/

Interesting article.. He's only been a monk for about 14 years. I suspect he is highly venerated in his home town. If this article posts in Thai, I suspect he will pick up about 20 thousand more followers. sadhu..

It's ok as long as he's not attached to these worldly delusions.

[beautifulthailand99]

""His behaviour -- wearing sunglasses and carrying a Louis Vuitton handbag -- amounts to an ostentatious display that will provoke criticism from laymen," Nopparat said." 1. People wear sunglasses to protect their eyesight. Monks have eyes. 2. Maybe the LV bag was a fake? a man needs a bag sometimes 3. If flight was paid for by private donor, donor is "making merit" supporting the monks. I know for a fact that the Buddha never said anything against private jet transport for monks. hahaha Sure there are lots of "short time" monks who are there to bring more face to families and such. These monks could be "in the world, but not of the world". Show some compassion and examine your own prejudices before throwing too many stones.

1. People don't usually need designer sun glasses to protect their eyes whilst strapped into the seat of a private jet.

2. Makes no difference, fake or not. It is not the worth of the item, it is it's intended use. Monks have a sling in which to carry the things they are allowed to possess (rice/offering bowl, spoon, medical items, necessary money, etc) - a LV bag is a status symbol used for showing off and looking flash, in short to sell one's self and to beautify one's self - thus against the rules.

3. Again this makes no difference. A monk is not obligated to accept a gift (they are not allowed to take money personally for example) - they must accept food placed in their offering bowls, but not all gifts - what if I made 'merit, by buying a monk a night in a brothel? He should reject it politely (maybe not so politely in my case). The gift was ostentatious and should have been reject, perhaps with a suggestion to donate the cost instead to charity etc.

If a man is ordained and swears to hold the precepts of the monkhood, then he should for however short a time he is ordained for. It is not acceptable to be "in the world, but not of the world" - its in or out, those are the vows taken.

This would be a reasonable western logical assumption but in this case TIT rules apply.

[Sing_Sling]

Err ahh, who cares. As far as we know that haven't molested any children, condoned the killing of innocent people by suicide bombers, etc.

Many people care, that's why it is a big deal . . . the fact that you find it to be a non-issue speaks volumes about you, not others.

Think about it in terms of a wider ill - just read the story above your post, which you must have seen. This aura of invincibility . . .