Thai govt faces rice rage

[pedro01]

When you want to get into power you need to have someone to hold your banner as you give the banter.

The rice farmers believed they were chosen to wave the flag for a modern day Joan D'Arc but as she was burnt at the stake then perhaps the farmers now realise that you can't have your cake and eat it.

Farmers live in an inclusive society what their neighbours think they must show to be part of that brigade if not woe betide them.

The lot cannot realise that they have been hoodwinked for the farmers do believe in trusting nature however they are not geared to handle the responsibility of cash, it is the paradox that has held them so far.

Anger comes to them as soon as Lao Khao is poured it is a white powerful substance that has led them to the road to ruin.

Rice is the staple food of Thailand to have it contaminated is to tell the Thais you are no longer the chosen ones

It's nice to know that ignorance and bigorty are allive and well!

It's hard to know where to start with this nonsense. Farmers can't handle cash and they are all alcoholics?

Real charmer you are.

[GeorgeO]

Chanchai said yesterday the government made a mistake in changing the pledged price without consulting farmers. "This will heavily affect farmers. Production costs have already increased."

Charin Singdee said the best way forward for the scheme was to eradicate corruption.

For me, these are the key points. Increasing farmers productivity would also help. Your average rice farmer lives in squalor. They can't seem to win with or without these policies.

But now they wish to exacerbate the farmers' plight by extending loans to them, with reduced interest (!!) which they are of course now less likely to be able to repay..!!

How can a government reduce farmers' income by 20% and then tell them: "you can borrow money from us to cover the money that we have taken away from you..."? Oh, silly old me, that's what a Thaksin, sorry a Shinawatra government has been based upon all along...

[Angeledge777]

Still want communism? Most of them probably have a Che Guevarra sticker on their old and rusty pick-up. Stop expecting anything from the government, he always do something to fool.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Fool me thousands of time, i like it! (Thai version)

[allan michaud]

The rice pledging scheme was never going to do what it said on the box, improve the poor farmers life long term.

I think we have to look at what it's actual aim was which I think was to create a huge grey area where vast sums of money can be siphoned off.

Could it be that someone got his confiscated billions back, with interest.

I think Mr T is allowing his PTP cronies to pocket the rice scam money to keep them in line. To me it seems clear his plan to make his money is by wrecking the Thai economy, so when the Baht collapses his billions of dollars will suddenly be worth 20-30% more. After all he has plenty of experience of making huge sums of money through advanced knowledge of exchange rate changes.

[moe666]

very interesting not one of the old guard supporter group here to paint a rosey picture of this mess, whats up boys run out of wwords.

[Maggusoil]

In my area, any farmer than can afford it, probably too few, is getting out of rice and into rubber. Then they keep enough rice to feed themselves and cash up on the rubber. More dollars per rai. I left money here for my daughter's mother to go into a rubber related business. In my absence, she bought land for rice because it was cheaper.

Where as that doesn't make much business sense, it does indicate a serious trend.

As several posters have pointed out, in Thailand as elsewhere world wide, so-called "developed" world included, people in government and middlemen, do very well at the expense of lesser educated slaves at the bottom of the food chain.

Why would the government not want to help educate them? To prevent them turning into a threat.

Why would governments want to disarm their populations? To prevent them from turning into a serious threat.

Those of us who have families or other vested interests here, need to do more than observe. Any suggestions?

[Thai at Heart]

When you want to get into power you need to have someone to hold your banner as you give the banter.

The rice farmers believed they were chosen to wave the flag for a modern day Joan D'Arc but as she was burnt at the stake then perhaps the farmers now realise that you can't have your cake and eat it.

Farmers live in an inclusive society what their neighbours think they must show to be part of that brigade if not woe betide them.

The lot cannot realise that they have been hoodwinked for the farmers do believe in trusting nature however they are not geared to handle the responsibility of cash, it is the paradox that has held them so far.

Anger comes to them as soon as Lao Khao is poured it is a white powerful substance that has led them to the road to ruin.

Rice is the staple food of Thailand to have it contaminated is to tell the Thais you are no longer the chosen ones

It is a rare thing to believe that farmers can be hoodwinked quite as badly as this. I am sure the red propaganda machine is going into overdrive in the villages, but at the end of it all, this whacks them straight in the pocket. Not easy to put a spin on that one.

The red propaganda machine doesn't even need to get out of first gear in the villages. No matter how they get whacked in the pocket, or beaten around the head if it came to it, they will never vote for the Democrats as they never have, and never will see them as the party that will help the Rural communities. You have to live in a more Rural area to understand their thought patterns and what is happening now is to put pressure on this bunch of morons they like to think are in power to help them. They do not want to get rid of them, they just want them to keep their promises no matter if it bankrupts the country in the process, because the mighty poison dwarf in Dubai promised them they would all be rich in six months if they gave PT a landslide victory at the Polls. Most of the country folk still believe the way to financial heaven is to bring back the great messiah and give him back the reigns. They are almost completely unshakable in their faith in him.

Let's see. Maybe this one shakes their faith just a little. They have all ploughed themselves hook line and sinker into rice, every spare rai has been turned over to it. What to do? Keep growing and get screwed even more? I don't expect everyone to analyse the in's and out's of the government finances, debt to GDP, or the global rice price and to care two figs if it benefits them personally to get helped by the government.

I would however, expect them to very easily understand their own wallet, and realise that there is less in it this year than last.

[ianf]

Rubber is not an option. Hasn't the price decreased by 66.6% since the Cambodians 'got into rubber' in a big way? Only 30 baht a slab now!

[kotsak]

Still want communism? Most of them probably have a Che Guevarra sticker on their old and rusty pick-up. Stop expecting anything from the government, he always do something to fool.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Fool me thousands of time, i like it! (Thai version)

I like it as long as I get the dough..

[skorchio]

So the farmers now turn to bite the hand that has stopped feeding them.

This is beautiful, and it will end in tears. Wait till the stockpiles are declared unfit for sale (i.e. rejected on the open market), whereupon the UN will accept the rice for free aid distribution, only to find that some of it is toxic due to overuse of chemicals in the growing and particularly storage phases. If this materialises even 50% as I see it, this Govt is over. Even the farmers will see it for what it is ..... temporarily, obviously.

And, furthermore, I don't think this scheme would have gone so titsup if the Man in the Middle East was actually here on the job. I think he would have controlled (the distribution of) the corruption and maybe got the storage of the rice right. But his sis just aint strong enough to keep all the other scavengers in check ......

Edited June 25, 2013 by skorchio

[belg]

just a question:

if a crop is not viable for the farmer, why don't they change to a crop that gives them a good return in stead of leaching on tax payers money

do any of those ever pay one baht of tax ?

splitting bangkok off from the rest of the country financially, would be a start, not ?

bangkok is not growing rice, but middle class are the only one paying for all this PTP crap ... poor don't pay taxes and rich avoid them or are a part of the pocket filling scam artists

[Thaddeus]

Rubber is not an option. Hasn't the price decreased by 66.6% since the Cambodians 'got into rubber' in a big way? Only 30 baht a slab now!

And even if you planted today you won't see any return for seven years.

[aussiebebe]

I was at the Bangkok immigration a few weeks ago and saw some 'red-shirts' gathered outside some government building. I didn't realize it, but that was probably the beginnings of the discontent with the government over this rice scheme. I don't know where the government wasted the money but they should be able to explain to their own supporters that the cash has run out and dissuade them from protesting.

[steveromagnino]

just a question:

if a crop is not viable for the farmer, why don't they change to a crop that gives them a good return in stead of leaching on tax payers money

do any of those ever pay one baht of tax ?

splitting bangkok off from the rest of the country financially, would be a start, not ?

bangkok is not growing rice, but middle class are the only one paying for all this PTP crap ... poor don't pay taxes and rich avoid them or are a part of the pocket filling scam artists

We need the rest of Thailand, because the majority of Thai workforce are not in agriculture, they are in services/manufacturing since about 5 years ago.

We also need to treat all Thais as an asset, they are potentially our future earning power.

The problem is when you have moronic policies which are shortterm and unsustainable as many have repeatedly stated since rice pledging began to promise over market prices, you encourage people to engage in pointless endeavours; in fact people have switched from other crops to rice!

Fresh water, globally, is a scarce resource. To use it to grow rice, then incur the costs of this stupid pledging scheme and associated financing/storage costs with an end result to just let the rice rot as is happening now, should be a crime against humanity, as long as there are people without food. By interfering with the free market, PT are not only damaging a substantial world resource, but worse still, they are failing their voter base who need schooling, education, value add mind sets and transparency.

If the aim of a business is to deliver longterm, sustainable returns to shareholders, what is the charter of a government? To burn through our cash so they can line their pockets?

It is indeed true that around 6-8m Thais pay income tax (myself included) mostly funding the rest - the unemployed, the poor, the elderly, etc - this is the social contract which I am (and other tax payers) are more than happy to do if there is a longterm benefit. All Thais pay some tax via VAT, but this is again somewhat proportional meaning that higher income earners also pay more VAT and more luxury taxes.

I am not particularly happy to pay for first car, rice pledging; ok for universal healthcare and education. Other taxpayers can chime in.

At a guess the main 'tax' the poor have levied on them, is VAT, the lottery - both the legit one and the underground one, and the tax on booze and cigarettes.

The sooner they stop this idiotic stupid market distortion and go back to the rice guarantee floor price, the sooner we can get on with productive rice farming.

I'm not convinced on rubber (we have quite a few rai in our family growing rubber now) is any more 'clean' once the government gets their filthy paws on it even though this particular case was I think thrown out already:

http://www.transparency-thailand.org/eng/index.php/2012-11-02-04-15-03/81-oag-asked-to-indict-45-in-saplings-case

The reality is the majority of rice farmers would be better to give up and go do something else. Subscale small size rice farms is one of the best predictors of poverty and in turn, the various social and societal ills. Move these farmers to something else (which the billions of rice pledging could easily have paid for) and we would have way more productive members of society.

It sickens me that there are posters who still want to subsidise rice farmers to continue with a stupid way of life using taxpayer money to do so only to throw away all the hard work of those same farmers (which is what will happen to most of the pledged rice); it would be the same as the government offering ever larger and larger subsidies for telegram companies to compete with mobile phones. Ever larger subsidies to the builders of the Datsun 120Y so they could keep selling cars with no aircon or safety to compete against a modern Nissan March. For the Vic 20 maker to compete against the Ipad.

The definition of idiocy is doing the same thing again and again and expecting a different result. We've gone through this all with TRT 1, TRT 2, PPP and now PT. For the love of god, come up with just 1 decent new idea we can actually support you on!!! It's the same ideas churned out again and again. For the same benefits of skim, corruption and graft. Play a new tune please!

Edited June 25, 2013 by steveromagnino

[Thai at Heart]

just a question:

if a crop is not viable for the farmer, why don't they change to a crop that gives them a good return in stead of leaching on tax payers money

do any of those ever pay one baht of tax ?

splitting bangkok off from the rest of the country financially, would be a start, not ?

bangkok is not growing rice, but middle class are the only one paying for all this PTP crap ... poor don't pay taxes and rich avoid them or are a part of the pocket filling scam artists

We need the rest of Thailand, because the majority of Thai workforce are not in agriculture, they are in services/manufacturing since about 5 years ago.

We also need to treat all Thais as an asset, they are potentially our future earning power.

The problem is when you have moronic policies which are shortterm and unsustainable as many have repeatedly stated since rice pledging began to promise over market prices, you encourage people to engage in pointless endeavours; in fact people have switched from other crops to rice!

Fresh water, globally, is a scarce resource. To use it to grow rice, then incur the costs of this stupid pledging scheme and associated financing/storage costs with an end result to just let the rice rot as is happening now, should be a crime against humanity, as long as there are people without food. By interfering with the free market, PT are not only damaging a substantial world resource, but worse still, they are failing their voter base who need schooling, education, value add mind sets and transparency.

If the aim of a business is to deliver longterm, sustainable returns to shareholders, what is the charter of a government? To burn through our cash so they can line their pockets?

It is indeed true that around 6-8m Thais pay income tax (myself included) mostly funding the rest - the unemployed, the poor, the elderly, etc - this is the social contract which I am (and other tax payers) are more than happy to do if there is a longterm benefit. All Thais pay some tax via VAT, but this is again somewhat proportional meaning that higher income earners also pay more VAT and more luxury taxes.

I am not particularly happy to pay for first car, rice pledging; ok for universal healthcare and education. Other taxpayers can chime in.

At a guess the main 'tax' the poor have levied on them, is VAT, the lottery - both the legit one and the underground one, and the tax on booze and cigarettes.

The sooner they stop this idiotic stupid market distortion and go back to the rice guarantee floor price, the sooner we can get on with productive rice farming.

I'm not convinced on rubber (we have quite a few rai in our family growing rubber now) is any more 'clean' once the government gets their filthy paws on it even though this particular case was I think thrown out already:

http://www.transparency-thailand.org/eng/index.php/2012-11-02-04-15-03/81-oag-asked-to-indict-45-in-saplings-case

The reality is the majority of rice farmers would be better to give up and go do something else. Subscale small size rice farms is one of the best predictors of poverty and in turn, the various social and societal ills. Move these farmers to something else (which the billions of rice pledging could easily have paid for) and we would have way more productive members of society.

It sickens me that there are posters who still want to subsidise rice farmers to continue with a stupid way of life using taxpayer money to do so only to throw away all the hard work of those same farmers (which is what will happen to most of the pledged rice); it would be the same as the government offering ever larger and larger subsidies for telegram companies to compete with mobile phones. Ever larger subsidies to the builders of the Datsun 120Y so they could keep selling cars with no aircon or safety to compete against a modern Nissan March. For the Vic 20 maker to compete against the Ipad.

The definition of idiocy is doing the same thing again and again and expecting a different result. We've gone through this all with TRT 1, TRT 2, PPP and now PT. For the love of god, come up with just 1 decent new idea we can actually support you on!!! It's the same ideas churned out again and again. For the same benefits of skim, corruption and graft. Play a new tune please!

The fact is, farmers are subsidised all over the world, and if the whole agribusiness market was a completely fair market, many would go out of business.

However, it is a strategically important issue to be able to guarantee food supply nationally, and globally, so unless EVERYONE drops all subsidies, there is a logic in giving something to Thai farmers. However, giving it in the way it has been done is not the right way, and there is massive corruption that means the farmers don't get the lions share.

Thailand, should accept that it may not necessary to continue to chase the title of largest exporter, when the crop is obviously not financially viable.

[steveromagnino]

The fact is, farmers are subsidised all over the world, and if the whole agribusiness market was a completely fair market, many would go out of business.

However, it is a strategically important issue to be able to guarantee food supply nationally, and globally, so unless EVERYONE drops all subsidies, there is a logic in giving something to Thai farmers. However, giving it in the way it has been done is not the right way, and there is massive corruption that means the farmers don't get the lions share.

Thailand, should accept that it may not necessary to continue to chase the title of largest exporter, when the crop is obviously not financially viable.

Indeed.

But at some point you need to draw the line. If Thai rice was sold on quality (it isn't) and if the yields were improving (they aren't) and if there was consolidation in the industry (this one there is at a landowner level) and better division and improvement of labour (there isn't) then you wouldn't have what various rice experts have described to be as 'a ticking timebomb' when the current generation of rice farmers depart this world for Thailand, because rice farming, despite all the subsidies in Thailand, is no longer a particularly attractive business for much of the country, when they can work in a factory.

Otherwise, it's a question of how much do we pay rice farmers to grow rice, so we can just throw it away, which is the situation we have now, this is not a subsidy, it is a gift for standing in mud and using water to produce rotting manure.

[winstonc]

Chanchai said yesterday the government made a mistake in changing the pledged price without consulting farmers. "This will heavily affect farmers. Production costs have already increased."

Charin Singdee said the best way forward for the scheme was to eradicate corruption.

For me, these are the key points. Increasing farmers productivity would also help. Your average rice farmer lives in squalor. They can't seem to win with or without these policies.

getting rid of corruption is indeed the way,,,theyv already had there slice so now it can stop,,,fantastic people arnt they,i applaud them,,,,hahahahaha

[hellodolly]

The way PT is lurching from one disaster to another maybe it would better if Thaksin did a little less thinking for a while?

Didn't he just have an emergency meeting of the Cabinet in Hong Kong to discuss ways to derail the run away train the government has turned into. Get it back on track to white wash him?

[jcb2001]

Rubber is not an option. Hasn't the price decreased by 66.6% since the Cambodians 'got into rubber' in a big way? Only 30 baht a slab now!

No, 70 baht a slab.

http://www.thainr.com/en/?detail=pr-local

Edited June 25, 2013 by jcb2001

[hellodolly]

According to Bloombergs the world is experiencing record bumper crops of rice and maze among others.

Thailand is running out of warehouse space to keep all its unsold stock totalling millions of tonnes.

Overseas importers have also experienced good rice crop harvests so will buy less this year.

Thailand is going to be stuck with huge reserves of rice with no buyers in sight.

Its a buyers market and the big players are holding back.

Bye bye yingluck your 2011 rice pledge scam to get elected has backfired.

Well they needed a reason to get rid of her so her big sister can take control and restore the family fortunes. Her first step will of course be to call for reunification with Thaksin leading the way.

See the seed of it here with the statement

"

Bye bye Yingluck your 2011 rice pledge scam to get elected has backfired."

Like Thaksin had nothing to do with it. All Yingluck's fault.

[techboy]

As ye sow so shall ye reap

Great words. Unfortunately all too often we do not understand what we have sown until ...

[hellodolly]

"Pheu Thai secretary-general Phumtham Wechayachai said he was not worried about farmers rallying over the rice scheme as he believed farmers had the right to tell the government their problems, as long as they do it legally."

Does he mean do it as the red shirts did it in 2010?

Also don't come to Bangkok to do it he wants to have plenty of room for his red shirt supporters to demonstrate in favor of the Government. They can not allow the public to here any dissenting voices in Bangkok.

[NongKhaiKid]

My news text service is reporting the farmers have called off their rally after handing in a letter requesting the pledge price remain at B15,000 until at least the end of September and Boonsong has said the price will be considered at the National Rice Policy Committee on Friday.

Funnily enough September was a date supposedly being quoted by Mr.T earlier this morning as when the price might be revised upwards again from 12,000.

Looks like the farmers are getting to them, what's the bet the price suddenly stays at 15,000 meantime ?

[A Member]

My news text service is reporting the farmers have called off their rally after handing in a letter requesting the pledge price remain at B15,000 until at least the end of September and Boonsong has said the price will be considered at the National Rice Policy Committee on Friday.

Funnily enough September was a date supposedly being quoted by Mr.T earlier this morning as when the price might be revised upwards again from 12,000.

Looks like the farmers are getting to them, what's the bet the price suddenly stays at 15,000 meantime ?

I have these texts too and it seems the government have neatly painted themselves into a corner as they can't afford to keep paying out but their core support is turning on them.

Couldn't happen to a nicer bunch.

[BrianCR]

PM's Office Minister Varathep Ratanakorn yesterday accepted a written complaint from the group and gave a promise to make a final decision on the rice price guarantee by June 29

So now no final decision will be made till the 29th,

Where is the reverse gear?

Yesterday when I went for a ride on my bike around the paddy district I saw many small groups of farmers talking together and in one place there was quite a large gathering at a small roadside temple.

Suspect they were all talking about recent developments in their business

Or what number is going to win the next lottery?

[bander]

Chanchai said yesterday the government made a mistake in changing the pledged price without consulting farmers. "This will heavily affect farmers. Production costs have already increased."

Charin Singdee said the best way forward for the scheme was to eradicate corruption.

For me, these are the key points. Increasing farmers productivity would also help. Your average rice farmer lives in squalor. They can't seem to win with or without these policies.

But now they wish to exacerbate the farmers' plight by extending loans to them, with reduced interest (!!) which they are of course now less likely to be able to repay..!!

How can a government reduce farmers' income by 20% and then tell them: "you can borrow money from us to cover the money that we have taken away from you..."? Oh, silly old me, that's what a Thaksin, sorry a Shinawatra government has been based upon all along...

Why should the billionaire Shinawatra clan help the poor rice farmers when hey can collecting more money from the interest on the loans they "give" them?

[Angeledge777]

Still want communism? Most of them probably have a Che Guevarra sticker on their old and rusty pick-up. Stop expecting anything from the government, he always do something to fool.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Fool me thousands of time, i like it! (Thai version)

I like it as long as I get the dough..

And they are going to love communism again after they receive their 100 BAHT for a Shinawatra's vote.

[wolf5370]

This was a silly and poorly thought out gilded carrot for the electorate. While agricultural subsidies are common throughout the world, it made no sense to put all those eggs in the same basket - pushing farmers into swapping out other crops (where possible) for rice, reusing fallow ground, pushing 2, 3 or even 4 harvests per season (sucking the life out of the soil) - not too mention the increase in burning between each harvest. This on top of the facts that rice production world wide is up, rice prices have fallen in real terms, baht is so strong, Thai rice is easily challenged for quality these days and so on. It also encouraged illegality such as rice smuggling from neighbouring countries. It was a real case of taking lambs to the slaughter.

Help for the farmers would have been much more sustainable if welfare policies and broad based subsidies were used instead. Paying farmers for fallow fields (on a rotational seasonal basis of course - i.e. managed) would help both the farmer financially (no outward costs) and the fertility of the land/better future crops. Introduction of farming cooperatives nationally (under local government and reported back to Bkk - farmer organised coops fall prey to corruption and extortion and are doomed to fail) to allow farmers to get better prices from the middle men buyers and millers. This brings some of the cash back down to the "coal face".

However, none of this sounds as good as "you will be rich by this time next year". It also hurts those greedy B*****ds that continue to rape the farmers profits (rice scheme or not) and as always run the show (up front or behind the scene).

It seems to me that this will end a lot worse for many farmers than if it had not happened in the first place. When it fails wholesale (or is watered down so much as to be the same) it will leave a lot of farmers out in the cold - a lot of farmers that were struggling, but surviving, on mixed crops and those rice only farmers who have seen local competition increase madly.

[A Member]

Like so many others on tv I come from a long line of cynics so i wonder if all that's happened today will be portrayed as Thaksin stepping in to " save " the farmers ?

Mind you it won't help any of the main problems with this nightmare but at least they have some breathing space if the farmers are back on side, sort of and until a cut in the pledge absolutely has to happen.

The government is only delaying the inevitable confrontation.

[rubl]

With world market prices as they are and even have been the government cannot justify spending hundreds of billions which don't even reach the target group of poor farmers. A direct, limited subsidy to farmers though can be justified as helping the poor, promoting new techniques, etc., etc.

So what does this government do? Cut farmers!