Secret no-fly list causes Bangkok holiday nightmare

[BrianCR]

I think the whole world is very lucky that you don't have the qualifications to be in charge! Why does it matter what someone LOOKS like people are still people and deserve respect from others!!

It sounds like you are too young to remember when Thailand (I think Admiral Kraivichien was the Prime Minister) used to refuse entry to anyone with hair longer than an active duty soldier, on the grounds that they looked like "hippies." Actually, now that I think of it, that policy was still in effect when Chatchai was Prime Minister, and might still b on the books, although obviously not enforced.

I can assure you sir that I was here well before Chatchai became Prime Minister and not only have I never heard of this rule but in the early 1980's there were some long haired westerners walking (staggering) around

[BrianCR]

It's not like Muslims are so highly regarded in Thailand.

The Thai immigration official might have been close to or related to someone killed or maimed by the southern insurgency.

I think that you should travel around Thailand before making a blanket statement like that. Northern Thailand, especially Chiang Rai Province has a large population of Muslims, Christians and Buddhists all of whom mix together and show regard for others. Not all Thai Muslims live in the South and even after saying that many who do get on with other religions. I don't see what religion you practice matters much here, what is reported is the fanatical few wanting independence and not caring who they kill in order to get it!

[kimamey]

I think the whole world is very lucky that you don't have the qualifications to be in charge! Why does it matter what someone LOOKS like people are still people and deserve respect from others!!

It sounds like you are too young to remember when Thailand (I think Admiral Kraivichien was the Prime Minister) used to refuse entry to anyone with hair longer than an active duty soldier, on the grounds that they looked like "hippies." Actually, now that I think of it, that policy was still in effect when Chatchai was Prime Minister, and might still b on the books, although obviously not enforced.

true i remember when cross the Malaysian border near hatyai with the train they got a big sign saying they can refuse entry based on not decent apearance and even wearing flipflops can be enough to not let you in ,, never had problems thou unshaven with a hangover and typical shorts and sleeveless shirt and flipflops

Probably thought it was your national dress.

[DocN]

OK.......I shouldn't have said "Suspicion before respect" for someone dressed like this.

My apologies. I should have said 'Suspicion before respect" because he is a Muslim.

Yeah ....that makes it much better!

...not...

Did you ever take an Emirates or Etihat- flight with a stop in Dubai or Abu Dhabi?

There are literally hundreds of people, looking exactly like him, on both airports...and you know, where it get's real spooky?

They are all allowed on board an AIRCRAFT! Imagine that!

What has the world been coming to?!

...try harder next time!

[DiamondKing]

It's not like Muslims are so highly regarded in Thailand.

The Thai immigration official might have been close to or related to someone killed or maimed by the southern insurgency.

I think that you should travel around Thailand before making a blanket statement like that. Northern Thailand, especially Chiang Rai Province has a large population of Muslims, Christians and Buddhists all of whom mix together and show regard for others. Not all Thai Muslims live in the South and even after saying that many who do get on with other religions. I don't see what religion you practice matters much here, what is reported is the fanatical few wanting independence and not caring who they kill in order to get it!

ISLAM IS NOT A RELIGION it is an IDEOLOGY

[craigt3365]

I think the whole world is very lucky that you don't have the qualifications to be in charge! Why does it matter what someone LOOKS like people are still people and deserve respect from others!!

It sounds like you are too young to remember when Thailand (I think Admiral Kraivichien was the Prime Minister) used to refuse entry to anyone with hair longer than an active duty soldier, on the grounds that they looked like "hippies." Actually, now that I think of it, that policy was still in effect when Chatchai was Prime Minister, and might still b on the books, although obviously not enforced.

I can assure you sir that I was here well before Chatchai became Prime Minister and not only have I never heard of this rule but in the early 1980's there were some long haired westerners walking (staggering) around

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/620212-the-hippie-trail/page-4?p=6142783#entry6142783

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

It's not like Muslims are so highly regarded in Thailand.

The Thai immigration official might have been close to or related to someone killed or maimed by the southern insurgency.

I think that you should travel around Thailand before making a blanket statement like that. Northern Thailand, especially Chiang Rai Province has a large population of Muslims, Christians and Buddhists all of whom mix together and show regard for others. Not all Thai Muslims live in the South and even after saying that many who do get on with other religions. I don't see what religion you practice matters much here, what is reported is the fanatical few wanting independence and not caring who they kill in order to get it!

Well don't know the rest of the story. Muslims fly with little to no problem to and from many western countries.

I don't think he got singled out for no other reason than his religion.

He might have gotten uppity when he was denied. Keep in mind also he was allowed to roam around the terminal for 4 days before drawing the detention.

Yes I never said all or most Muslims however there are a few thousand Thai soldiers who have been killed in the south.

Also I live in CM and I remember a few years ago when someone chucked a pipe bomb into a Mosque off of Chang Klan road.

[nottocus]

OK.......I shouldn't have said "Suspicion before respect" for someone dressed like this.

My apologies. I should have said 'Suspicion before respect" because he is a Muslim.

Yeah ....that makes it much better!

...not...

Did you ever take an Emirates or Etihat- flight with a stop in Dubai or Abu Dhabi?

There are literally hundreds of people, looking exactly like him, on both airports...and you know, where it get's real spooky?

They are all allowed on board an AIRCRAFT! Imagine that!

What has the world been coming to?!

...try harder next time!

[redutedog1]

good i would say, keep the airport's safe

[DocN]

Hahaha, be honest, how many of you would not be staring at this guys hands and shoes the whole flight if sitting next to him? :-D

Me!

Because I have sat next to "him" a number of times.

[bangkokpoppys]

Looks like a great contender for the best Movember mo and beard combo, plus some killer eyebrows. That's about all I can say about this thread...!

[Payboy]

Are we absolutely sure that wasn't Sach Baron Cohen filming his new movie on location?

[dao16]

Why would he not answer questions without a lawyer present.

it is every one right not to do so

any thing you say CAN and WILL be held against ou in a court of law so better keep your mouth shut

Is that a Law in Thailand?

You know for sure?

Or is that just a popular grab from an American or UK police show?

EDIT ... not saying that it's not good advice ... but is it Thai Law?

.

Well, I would watch this video...I don't know this law professor, but lawyer friends have said similar things to me. Part 2 is a policeman who does a more macho rendering of the reasons, but the professor is compelling (even though he speaks extremely fast).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Au4_EdPwTkE

Of course, I don't know what any of this would matter with the Thai police...I just assumed the guy was being questioned by a US agency.

Edit: BTW: this is at some conservative christain college, so these aren't bleeding heart liberals...this is more of the "support the troops/police" brigade.

Edited July 1, 2013 by dao16

[lee b]

I can see why, i have nothing againsed anyone from any part of the world flying, but i would be a bit scared if this guy was sitting next to me..

[Halion]

Being on a no fly list is one thing, refusing to answer questions is another, however, the big question remains that why did it take 4 days for the US authorities to show up. Had he been a serious terrorist threat then he would have been long gone only to highlight that the current system need a serious overhaul.

[nottocus]

Suspicion before respect.

I'd certainly be suspicious of a Roman Catholic priest if he wanted to babysit my son. It would be foolish not to....although I'm sure he's a good guy. People are still people as one guy said.

Edited July 1, 2013 by nottocus

[toenail]

^{I am sure the guy loved the attention despite his complaint about be detained. If he doesn't want attention, why walk around looking like this?}

[rbrooks]

.

kcal9.com

I wonder why he has the potential for the no-fly list?

Got me stumped ...

.

I guess the photo kind of gave him away.

Edited July 1, 2013 by rbrooks

[Cambodger]

Just wait for them to racially profile white men traveling from and to Thailand and giving them extra checks for child porn making them feel like criminals and wait for ages ect. Bet the tune here would be totally different. Its all fun and games when the rights of others are infringed upon but once you are the one all hell breaks loose.

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out--

Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out--

Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out--

Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me--and there was no one left to speak for me.

Martin Niemoller

I think it logical anyone arriving at a airport in Asia sporting a Gary Glitter ponytail should be shaken down and his hard drive thoroughly searched.

[Donnie Brasco]

Andre0720 wrote:

The events that happened on September 11 2001 have changed the world as we knew it.

That would be a fact, would it not?

Good boy, Andre 0720

Now, parse the events of that day. Then assemble ALL these events into an investigative analysis of that push-button date that ***you*** picked at random to illustrate why we are killing people all over the world.

Do not leave out one element. Ignore all political and philosophical filters.

Just the facts.

You are not to eliminate ANY facts relating to that date.

None. Not one.

All these facts are in the public domain.

You have a computer.

You can message me if you need help but you seem intelligent enough to get there on your own.

Edited July 1, 2013 by Donnie Brasco

[Payboy]

Relax guys, false alarm. It was only Bean Laden.

[geriatrickid]

So in the US, land of the free, you will be harassed before being found guilty by a judge.

And just about every other country too.

[charmonman]

His Facebook page indicates that he may be a supporter of Ron Paul. So, aside from his fundamentalist Muslim tendencies, he must be an <deleted> nutcase!

On the other hand he also supports the legalization of marijuana, very sensible indeed.

Whatever anyone thinks of his beliefs, he is a US citizen simply attempting to return to the country of his citizenship. To deny him the ability to do that is completely unreasonable. If there is suspicion he might commit some act of terrorism on the flight then by all means, search his luggage and person with a fine toothed comb, but to strand him in a foreign country with no explanation?

[geriatrickid]

Being on a no fly list is one thing, refusing to answer questions is another, however, the big question remains that why did it take 4 days for the US authorities to show up. Had he been a serious terrorist threat then he would have been long gone only to highlight that the current system need a serious overhaul.

Apparently, and this is uncorroborated, and comes in part from comments made by his US legal representative and some of the comments made to media and reported as off the record;

- He did contact the US Embassy in Bangkok. There appears to be a mix of his being uncooperative, a weekend when key staff were off, and the need to consult with "Washington".

- His case was then referred to Washington and a senior investigator was rushed out on the next available flight.

- When the investigator arrive, Mr. Motiwala was again uncooperative and refused to answer questions. Because of his refusal, the US officials could not intervene. There is no obligation for the US government to provide legal counsel to an airline passenger in this type of situation. The onus is on the passenger to retain legal counsel if he insists.

- Mr. Motiwala was informed/advised several times, that unless he answered questions, the US government could not help him. Mr. Motiwalal declined.

- The Thai authorities made the decision to detain Mr. Motiwala after he refused to answer the questions from Thai immigration. He also insisted on legal counsel during that questioning. A visitor to Thailand who refuses to answer questions asked byThai immigration can be detained and that is what happened. It was the inevitable outcome. Passengers who refuse to answerThai immigration questions clearing immigration in BKK will experience difficulties and an interruption in their journey.

- Mr. Motiwala could not be removed from Thailand as an undesirable since no airline would carry him. The Thai immigration department followed its regulations and detained him as a person refused entry into Thailand.

- Mr. Motwala's luggage had already been checked in and because he was in transit, he had no access to his luggage. As a result, he wore the same clothes for his stay. He did have access to showers, but he declined as he believed them to be unclean. As a result he did not bathe during his stay, although he did wash his face and feet in the sink in accordance with his religious custom that requires the washing prior to prayers. He was fed halal food and was allowed to pray in accordance with his religious custom. (It is unfair to blame Mr. Motiwalal for his state of hygiene as it was not his intent.)

- The US officials working without the assistance and cooperation of Mr. Motiwala were able to clear him to fly.

- Mr. Motiwala departed Thailand on a flight with more than the usual complement of armed security officials for the flight.

- Mr. Motiwala upon landing in the USA had his laptop, cell phone and USB memory sticks seized for inspection. They were returned after it is presumed they were copied by US authorities.

Edited July 1, 2013 by geriatrickid

[charmonman]

I can see why, i have nothing againsed anyone from any part of the world flying, but i would be a bit scared if this guy was sitting next to me..

Anyone seriously interested in doing harm would probably not try to board a plane dressed like this guy. I would not be scared sitting next to him, I would simply think he was a harmless religious nut too stupid to figure out how full of nonsense was his chosen belief system. Creepy yes, but my main feeling toward him would be disdain, not fear.

[metisdead]

Nonsense bickering posts have been removed as well as trolling nonsense posts.

[JAG]

It's the over paranoid American government who bullies other governments, and even spies on citizens across the globe, as well as its own citizens and other world governments whether its in America or abroad.

Even when your having a beer at the bar, you have American secret service, CIA, even under cover FBI and DEA working all over Thailand and the world, stating they are teachers, other business operatives. They are all here for one purpose to gather intelligence, and try and infiltrate networks operating in the area.

Example. Lady flies from philipeans carrying drugs to Thailand, it was the Americans who informed the Thai police.

Your privacy is no longer your privacy, with hitech devices so small, you don't even know who's watching or listening.

Even your microphone on your mobile can be activated to listen to you. And this has been out for decades.

If you take a piece of good quality tinfoil, about 1 metre square, with about 8 folds you can turn it into a neat little triangular hat which will protect you!

[dao16]

It's the over paranoid American government who bullies other governments, and even spies on citizens across the globe, as well as its own citizens and other world governments whether its in America or abroad.

Even when your having a beer at the bar, you have American secret service, CIA, even under cover FBI and DEA working all over Thailand and the world, stating they are teachers, other business operatives. They are all here for one purpose to gather intelligence, and try and infiltrate networks operating in the area.

Example. Lady flies from philipeans carrying drugs to Thailand, it was the Americans who informed the Thai police.

Your privacy is no longer your privacy, with hitech devices so small, you don't even know who's watching or listening.

Even your microphone on your mobile can be activated to listen to you. And this has been out for decades.

If you take a piece of good quality tinfoil, about 1 metre square, with about 8 folds you can turn it into a neat little triangular hat which will protect you!

Well, not sure what the drug bust bit was about, but phones can be turned on, video cameras on your computer can record you and much, much more. Watch how drones will change things. And I don't mean the predator drones. I mean little ones, the size of a hummingbird or the size of a bee. They are being worked on already. Check out these: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQIMGV5vtd4 Of course, this is just the beginning. Look for Nano Quadrators (the flying things) or just watch the Boston Dynamics videos on youtube. It is coming.

I am not being all gloom and doom here, but these are issues that will have to be addressed. When the US, China, powerful EU countries and some random players have this technology, the world will change.

[CRUNCHER]

This is a travesty of justice. If USA has any reason to suspect this guy:

1) He should not have been allowed to leave USA

2) Any possibility of terrorism could have been neutralized by USA requiring extra security scanning of individual and belongings.

People are too accepting of the infringement of civil liberties by USA since the 911 incident.

I fully agree.

It seems to me though, that USA wants to dump its (suspected) terrosists on someone elses doorstep. Obviously the USA's "war on terror" only extends to looking after their own and to hell with the rest.

[techboy]

Why would he not answer questions without a lawyer present.

it is every one right not to do so

any thing you say CAN and WILL be held against ou in a court of law so better keep your mouth shut

Unless you have nothing to hide...

The last two replys:

1. You are citing part of Miranda in United States law and he had not been arrested, nevermind in US territory.

2. "Unless you have nothing to hide?" That is absurd. You can say anything and have it manipulated into the frame. That is why the Miranda in the U.S. says "anything" that you say can and will be used against you. Only this was not an arrest and it occurred in a different country. Try to push the boundaries of your reality beyond something that you saw in a in a TV show or movie which dipicted ficticious events in a different venue.