Is She Stupid, or Stupid?

[mogandave]

If I'm in a fender-bender and can pay a couple thousand and be on my way rather than hanging around for an hour or more arguing about who's fault it is I'm in.

[Tomtomtom69]

Mate, I know I'll get howled down for this, but how someone else in Thailand drives, rides, cycles, whatever ... as long as it doesn't affect me or mine directly ... I don't criticise, I don't berate, I don't judge ... it's not my business ... I move on.

Saves my angst.

.

Figure I'll get howled at, too. Someone saying I should drive like a Thai, then this wouldn't happen.

But I've seen too many dead people since I arrived here. Including children.

So I'm doing what you do. Moving on.

Regardless, it is difficult to comprehend the level of stupidity, the lack of value of life here, even your own child's.

... also I don't drive like a Thai ... I don't have a death wish.

I ride more then drive in Thailand. Actually just arrived here again and bought the spare Full-Face along with me for the ride.

Certainly helped being a Motorcycle Courier for a few years in London ... situational awareness is everything.

I'm still amuse by the Thai use of the hazard indicators to signal driving straight ahead onto a minor road ... driving in Thailand is what it is ... and it's always an experience!

.

Really? Haven't noticed that before. But the hazard lights when a driver nearly crashes into a large number of cars that are driving slowly as a result of a traffic jam on an expressway ahead - that one is a classic. Although perhaps it's not a bad move - that way the vehicle traveling behind knows when to slow however it does seem a bit ridiculous since you should be driving with enough space in front in case you need to stop anyway, hazard lights don't automatically make things safer.

[Tomtomtom69]

Nonsense, I'm a living example of the opposite, I was in essence rear ended some years ago in Phuket in my work truck by a Thai on a scooter who wasn't paying attention, I had my turn signal on (regardless, a rear end collision is always the trailing vehicles fault for not paying attention or keeping safe distance). The scooter was riding on the rocky side path and I made a right turn onto a side street after signalling my intentions and he panic braked on a rocky surface and laid his scooter down with his Gf on the back and thankfully they hit my rear tire and suffered only minor injuries (scrapes) instead of going under the truck, I almost didn't feel it as it was a solid hit on the rear tire on the bumpy road, thought it was just a bump, the road was under construction, it was their fault but I had to pay, Incredibly the cop was immediately on the scene, almost like a set up..

JFYI the scooter was never in front of me so I didn't pass him and cut him off either, he had plenty of notice of my impending turn..If he was paying attention...

So that crap don't fly with me, it DOES happen...

I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but in general if you're to blame you are blamed, if not to blame you don't get blamed. Your experience is just one experience. But there are always exceptions, and the often cried 'farang always to blame' is simply not true.

Did you get insurance involved BTW?

Yes but your original post insinuated that it doesn't happen and it does..

No insurance involvement, just ponied up a few thousand baht, but it's the principle, my boss was also in the truck, new job and so forth he also asked me why I paid up when I got back in the truck but there was no truck damage only slight scooter damage and as I said minor scrapes to the riders (God forbid if it were worse) and I thought it better to get on with the day and my life and besides he never even got out of the truck, the companies truck!

That was dumb. Never associate blame or accept responsibility until the insurance company arrives. If someone rear-ended you, unless perhaps you braked really hard and in a dumb way so they weren't able to stop safely, then it's their fault, so why would you pay? I've been involved in only one accident where I was clearly at fault (well you can't blame the 3 yr old kid that ran into my car can you?) it happened in the countryside at relatively low speed, no one even knew if it was me or my friend driving but did we pay a large amount and be on our way? Hell no! We did bring the kid to the hospital, but the insurance company paid for all expenses. The villagers also didn't ask for any money apart from us paying for a cheap meal for the villagers, which we joined in on and 300 Baht to take the kid to the hospital before the compensation money arrived from my insurance (it took about 2-3 days to arrive). All in all a horrible experience due to what the child went through, although luckily the child was 100% fine and we even followed up a few days later and the villagers involved were not greedy nor did they apportion blame.

[transam]

Mate, I know I'll get howled down for this, but how someone else in Thailand drives, rides, cycles, whatever ... as long as it doesn't affect me or mine directly ... I don't criticise, I don't berate, I don't judge ... it's not my business ... I move on.

Saves my angst.

.

Figure I'll get howled at, too. Someone saying I should drive like a Thai, then this wouldn't happen.

But I've seen too many dead people since I arrived here. Including children.

So I'm doing what you do. Moving on.

Regardless, it is difficult to comprehend the level of stupidity, the lack of value of life here, even your own child's.

... also I don't drive like a Thai ... I don't have a death wish.

I ride more then drive in Thailand. Actually just arrived here again and bought the spare Full-Face along with me for the ride.

Certainly helped being a Motorcycle Courier for a few years in London ... situational awareness is everything.

I'm still amuse by the Thai use of the hazard indicators to signal driving straight ahead onto a minor road ... driving in Thailand is what it is ... and it's always an experience!

.

Really? Haven't noticed that before. But the hazard lights when a driver nearly crashes into a large number of cars that are driving slowly as a result of a traffic jam on an expressway ahead - that one is a classic. Although perhaps it's not a bad move - that way the vehicle traveling behind knows when to slow however it does seem a bit ridiculous since you should be driving with enough space in front in case you need to stop anyway, hazard lights don't automatically make things safer.

Here in LOS, hazard warning lights are to warn folk you are about to do something really stupid.

[Tomtomtom69]

It is a myth perpetuated by laziness. Do you know any Thais that actually studied for their driving test or at any time have ever bothered to learn the rules of the road ?

Even police will go along with it because they are too lazy to do their job.

Get first class insurance and watch the myth disappear when your insurance agent deals with it.

I’ve known 10-20 Thais that have gotten their license where I work, and it seems they all studied for the test.

I think the big difference between Thai and US drivers is:

Thais generally start driving much later in life than US drivers.

Many (most?) Thais will never own or even drive a car.

In the US we grow up driving, and traffic laws are generally enforced.

I think they say it’s the car fault not because they are lazy or stupid, but because they empathize with the motorcycle rider. All too often, the rich guy is ranting about a scratch in his precious car while their friend is bleeding out on the side of the road.

Actually Thai folk ''learn'' to ride or drive at a really early age. Where I am kids who can barely see over the handle bars are given the keys by their parents. Go to any school and see the age's of kids arriving, and of course no helmet, in full view of a traffic cop. How many times here have we read about under age hi-so kids killing folk with a car.

Yes this is especially true for motorcycle riders, the most dangerous type of motorized vehicle out there. Not nearly as many Thais will ever end up driving a car, due to the expense involved in buying and running a car. In my experience, most Thais learn to drive a car later than their US and Aussie counterparts, but they will learn to drive a motorcycle much earlier (except that most Americans and Aussies will never learn to ride a motorcycle because there's no need - very few people own one).

[WarpSpeed]

Nonsense, I'm a living example of the opposite, I was in essence rear ended some years ago in Phuket in my work truck by a Thai on a scooter who wasn't paying attention, I had my turn signal on (regardless, a rear end collision is always the trailing vehicles fault for not paying attention or keeping safe distance). The scooter was riding on the rocky side path and I made a right turn onto a side street after signalling my intentions and he panic braked on a rocky surface and laid his scooter down with his Gf on the back and thankfully they hit my rear tire and suffered only minor injuries (scrapes) instead of going under the truck, I almost didn't feel it as it was a solid hit on the rear tire on the bumpy road, thought it was just a bump, the road was under construction, it was their fault but I had to pay, Incredibly the cop was immediately on the scene, almost like a set up..

JFYI the scooter was never in front of me so I didn't pass him and cut him off either, he had plenty of notice of my impending turn..If he was paying attention...

So that crap don't fly with me, it DOES happen...

I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but in general if you're to blame you are blamed, if not to blame you don't get blamed. Your experience is just one experience. But there are always exceptions, and the often cried 'farang always to blame' is simply not true.

Did you get insurance involved BTW?

Yes but your original post insinuated that it doesn't happen and it does..

No insurance involvement, just ponied up a few thousand baht, but it's the principle, my boss was also in the truck, new job and so forth he also asked me why I paid up when I got back in the truck but there was no truck damage only slight scooter damage and as I said minor scrapes to the riders (God forbid if it were worse) and I thought it better to get on with the day and my life and besides he never even got out of the truck, the companies truck!

That was dumb. Never associate blame or accept responsibility until the insurance company arrives. If someone rear-ended you, unless perhaps you braked really hard and in a dumb way so they weren't able to stop safely, then it's their fault, so why would you pay? I've been involved in only one accident where I was clearly at fault (well you can't blame the 3 yr old kid that ran into my car can you?) it happened in the countryside at relatively low speed, no one even knew if it was me or my friend driving but did we pay a large amount and be on our way? Hell no! We did bring the kid to the hospital, but the insurance company paid for all expenses. The villagers also didn't ask for any money apart from us paying for a cheap meal for the villagers, which we joined in on and 300 Baht to take the kid to the hospital before the compensation money arrived from my insurance (it took about 2-3 days to arrive). All in all a horrible experience due to what the child went through, although luckily the child was 100% fine and we even followed up a few days later and the villagers involved were not greedy nor did they apportion blame.

I guess you're not too good at comprehension, it wasn't MY vehicle, It wasn't MY insurance & and it was a new job with my NEW boss in the truck so ultimately it wasn't MY decision either, get it this time? But no it wasn't dumb, it was getting out of hand with BB already on the scene but more a problem then a solution and in Phuket where most every BB is on the take anyways and you weren't there..

[WarpSpeed]

If I'm in a fender-bender and can pay a couple thousand and be on my way rather than hanging around for an hour or more arguing about who's fault it is I'm in.

Too bad the poster above didn't fancy reading this before he posted his nonsense comments, so I quoted it again for his perusal of another wise opinion..

[Ace of Pop]

Or Company rules were that no one can pay and must wait for AIS Man,from CEO,down to Spares Delivery Vans.It cameabout from Paying Out a small sum,and weeks later the Firm had a visit from BIB as our driver failed to Stop and Paid nothing.. .

[stevenl]

I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but in general if you're to blame you are blamed, if not to blame you don't get blamed. Your experience is just one experience. But there are always exceptions, and the often cried 'farang always to blame' is simply not true.

Did you get insurance involved BTW?

Yes but your original post insinuated that it doesn't happen and it does..

No insurance involvement, just ponied up a few thousand baht, but it's the principle, my boss was also in the truck, new job and so forth he also asked me why I paid up when I got back in the truck but there was no truck damage only slight scooter damage and as I said minor scrapes to the riders (God forbid if it were worse) and I thought it better to get on with the day and my life and besides he never even got out of the truck, the companies truck!

That was dumb. Never associate blame or accept responsibility until the insurance company arrives. If someone rear-ended you, unless perhaps you braked really hard and in a dumb way so they weren't able to stop safely, then it's their fault, so why would you pay? I've been involved in only one accident where I was clearly at fault (well you can't blame the 3 yr old kid that ran into my car can you?) it happened in the countryside at relatively low speed, no one even knew if it was me or my friend driving but did we pay a large amount and be on our way? Hell no! We did bring the kid to the hospital, but the insurance company paid for all expenses. The villagers also didn't ask for any money apart from us paying for a cheap meal for the villagers, which we joined in on and 300 Baht to take the kid to the hospital before the compensation money arrived from my insurance (it took about 2-3 days to arrive). All in all a horrible experience due to what the child went through, although luckily the child was 100% fine and we even followed up a few days later and the villagers involved were not greedy nor did they apportion blame.

I guess you're not too good at comprehension, it wasn't MY vehicle, It wasn't MY insurance & and it was a new job with my NEW boss in the truck so ultimately it wasn't MY decision either, get it this time? But no it wasn't dumb, it was getting out of hand with BB already on the scene but more a problem then a solution and in Phuket where most every BB is on the take anyways and you weren't there..

I have not come across a place in Thailand where with traffic accidents and fines police are as straight as on Phuket.

[Ace of Pop]

It is a myth perpetuated by laziness. Do you know any Thais that actually studied for their driving test or at any time have ever bothered to learn the rules of the road ?

Even police will go along with it because they are too lazy to do their job.

Get first class insurance and watch the myth disappear when your insurance agent deals with it.

I’ve known 10-20 Thais that have gotten their license where I work, and it seems they all studied for the test.

I think the big difference between Thai and US drivers is:

Thais generally start driving much later in life than US drivers.

Many (most?) Thais will never own or even drive a car.

In the US we grow up driving, and traffic laws are generally enforced.

I think they say it’s the car fault not because they are lazy or stupid, but because they empathize with the motorcycle rider. All too often, the rich guy is ranting about a scratch in his precious car while their friend is bleeding out on the side of the road.

Actually Thai folk ''learn'' to ride or drive at a really early age. Where I am kids who can barely see over the handle bars are given the keys by their parents. Go to any school and see the age's of kids arriving, and of course no helmet, in full view of a traffic cop. How many times here have we read about under age hi-so kids killing folk with a car.

Yes this is especially true for motorcycle riders, the most dangerous type of motorized vehicle out there. Not nearly as many Thais will ever end up driving a car, due to the expense involved in buying and running a car. In my experience, most Thais learn to drive a car later than their US and Aussie counterparts, but they will learn to drive a motorcycle much earlier (except that most Americans and Aussies will never learn to ride a motorcycle because there's no need - very few people own one).

That may apply to City Thais,but up here they learn to drive Trucks early, they learn Car Control and off road better than Ferangs in a 4W.D.What they never learn is Road Sense.

[Thai at Heart]

When turning right, you need to position your bike very close to the centre of the road, i.e. just left of the white lane. This is if the traffic conditions permit. If you cannot achieve this safely, then pull in to the kerb and stop. Wait for clear traffic in both directions and then execute your right turn.

The OP did a bizarre right turn sweeping to the kerb before swinging right. I don't know where he learnt to drive but this is an insane manouevre and probably gave the shock of her life to the woman behind.

Indeed. I lost it with "I pulled left/inside to make a right turn"

Absolutely idiotic way to make a turn knowing there is someone close behind you.

The OP didn't go left and then turn right. He used the wrong description of "pulled inside", but meant that he moved towards the right. I clarified it with him in an earlier post. To him, "inside" means towards the centre of the road - I think he's using drive on the right terminology.

Sweeping RH turns from anywhere on the road are suicidal anyway. Best advice is to always filter safely to the right hand lane well before the intended point of exit as close to the centre line as possible. Try and judge speed and traffic so you can get across the road without having to go too slow or stop. And if you think anything behind you may be confused by your actions, use hand signals in addition to indicators.

Absolutely. Sweeping turns going right are not a very good idea on these chaotic roads. Get in position as early as possible and take your time.

Again, read the OP. The traffic was not "chaotic."

And I think you have a genuine misunderstanding of what "sweeping" means, to me anyway, just as other posters think "inside" refers to the, uhm, outside of the traffic lane.

Perhaps this is an honest misunderstanding, due to differences in British and American terminology.

Sorry if I caused you confusion.

I think so. Inside lane and outside land seem to be mixed up in terminology. In the UK, the inside lane is towards the kerb side on a road. I.e. going up the inside is to pass a car on its passenger side, and you overtake on the outside, I.e to the drivers side.

[whatthai]

Every single day , over the 15 years I have lived here, I have relentlessly been confronted with the utter stupidity of Thai drivers . So yes, chances are she is a moron .

[David48]

Every single day , over the 15 years I have lived here, I have relentlessly been confronted with the utter stupidity of Thai drivers . So yes, chances are she is a moron .

Welcome back in your new carnation.

Over the 15 years you have been here ... I can see that you have integrated well.

Bangers and mash still for breakfast?

.

[cardholder]

When turning right, you need to position your bike very close to the centre of the road, i.e. just left of the white lane. This is if the traffic conditions permit. If you cannot achieve this safely, then pull in to the kerb and stop. Wait for clear traffic in both directions and then execute your right turn.

The OP did a bizarre right turn sweeping to the kerb before swinging right. I don't know where he learnt to drive but this is an insane manouevre and probably gave the shock of her life to the woman behind.

Indeed. I lost it with "I pulled left/inside to make a right turn"

Absolutely idiotic way to make a turn knowing there is someone close behind you.

QUOTE:

When turning right, you need to position your bike very close to the centre of the road, i.e. just left of the white lane. This is if the traffic conditions permit.

White lane? Do you mean the yellow centerline, dividing oncoming lanes of traffic?

Nowhere did I state I swept to the curb. "Inside" is towards the yellow centerline. "Outside" is towards the white fog line.

I followed Thai law. Read the OP again. She was not "close" to me. I was already into my turn, signal flashing, and into the opposite lane, when she throttled it and passed me like a tornado. i.e., she passed me after I started the turn, "sweeping" (which you apparently misunderstand), or otherwise.

Where did I learn to drive?

I learned to drive through driver's education in high school, a six month course back in those days.

I learned to drive in the LAPD academy's Emergency Vehicle Operations Course, which covers pursuit and defensive driving techniques.

I learned to drive at the Bob Bondurant School of High Performance Driving.

I understand your positioning, and actions in making the turn, - spot on.

I realised what we were up against a couple of years ago when making a right turn in a small soi close to town. Followed my standard procedure - mirror, signal, manoevre.... since being in Thailand I add 'mirror' again. Fortunately, as I started my turn I saw two lads (late teens/early 20's, smartly dressed i.e not just out of the village) making to overtake. I hit the brakes and so did they resulting us finishing almost side by side. I pointed to my right indicator and said "mai hen ?" and moved forward. They were gesticulating to the left hand side of the road clearly suggesting that THEY BELIEVED I should have indicated right and then hugged the left kerb - Thai style - until it was clear to turn.

Sounds like the lady on the bike was of the same mind.

I have a copy of the Thai highway code - I doubt that they have.

[whatthai]

Every single day , over the 15 years I have lived here, I have relentlessly been confronted with the utter stupidity of Thai drivers . So yes, chances are she is a moron .

Welcome back in your new carnation.

Over the 15 years you have been here ... I can see that you have integrated well.

Bangers and mash still for breakfast?

.

No thanks, I don't eat <deleted> .

[MacChine]

You have to take the good with the bad. The same my pen rai attitude that makes Thais such infuriatingly unsafe drivers is the same attitude that has legions of young, attractive people prostituting themselves.

Can't have your cake and have eaten it, too.

Edited August 10, 2013 by MacChine