Finger-waving tourist receives Phuket lesson

[techboy]

I am a martial artist/instructor and can take good care of myself, but i never get the opportunities others get, because i am very humble and always bow down and say sorry to stupid acts of others....

Hmm. So you would not want retribution if the driver had misjudged this action- which was certainly one of hostility, harassment or blatent carelessness- and run your wife down? That would also be the same "Stupid acts of others..." I do not believe your arrogant, sanctimonious drivel. Furthermore regardless of training there are many people who hide behind and blithely espouse such peaceful "wisdom" because they are simply afraid.

PS. Something that I have learned over the years is that it is more preferable to live with an ass kicking than it is to lie awake nights knowing that I have folded to being bullied. A black eye goes away but that does not.

Edited August 13, 2013 by techboy

[hanno]

Thailand wants tourists dollars but do not enforce the laws of the land, Mayanmar will take a lot of tourist dollars from thailand and until they understand this then the beat-ing go on.

Arrivals Thailand January - June 2013: 12,7 Million (+10%).

Arrivals Myanmar 2012: just over a Million

And from today's Travel Daily Asia: Myanmar, which welcomed one million visitors in 2012, is aiming for 7.5m by 2020. However the ADB believes the country will only achieve five million arrivals by the end of the decade.

[chrisinth]

The situation would rarely, if ever, arise in the west because road users there are educated and know how to ride / drive and are generally courteous enough to give way to pedestrians crossing the road. Time and time again in Thailand I see mopeds blazing through areas where people are crossing, giving zero regard to them...even when others, i.e. Farangs, have stopped to let them cross, e.g. at a zebra crossing. Uneducated fools with no regard for anyone but themselves.

p.s. The Farang was still stupid to give the bird but if he / his wife had just nearly been killed, I can understand why he did.

Not trying to be funny here, but in most countries in the world it is illegal to cross the road in places otherwise authorized for that purpose. If the German couple were on a crossing, then that would be another matter. IMO, both parties were wrong with what happened here (with the facts available).

I agree whole-heartedly with your PS. It seems there are a lot of people on here that don't realize what giving the bird to someone here is. Its a bit like sitting in a bar with your feet on a table pointing directly at someone at the next table.

"sitting in a bar with your feet on a table pointing directly at someone at the next table" also does not deserve violent attack. It is a sick society that accepts such a response from a non-violent slight - especially a misunderstood one!

Violence is and should never be an accepted response to anything other than violence (as in self defence) - any state that accepts violence as a response or a reprisal is low. It is not a cultural thing either, Thai culture is non-violent as is the state religion. Violence should be stamped on hard by the authorities - followed up, pushed by leaders (especially in the tourist police, TAT and local Governance), and dealt with publically and severely. Thailand is becoming more and more violent - and the seeming acceptance of this by the state is sickening - and should be of major concern to all people here in Thailand that spout on about loving the country!

Western media/governments should make much more of statistics of violence against tourists in tourist destinations - publish them online for the world to see year in year out. It may even save some of those unpaid medical bills if so many tourists in Phuket were not bludgeoned into unconsciousness by local mobs!

In no way would I condone it, and certainly agree that sitting in a bar with your feet on a table pointing directly at someone at the next table does not deserve violent attack, but here in Thailand it will absolutely invoke a violent attack regardless if the person doing it knows or not that they are doing wrong. I specifically said bar to include alcohol in the equation.

As for the 'bird', twice (albeit not in Phuket) I have witnessed guns being pushed (once literally) into peoples faces because someone thought it was clever to do this. I actually wrote this as a piece of advice earlier, not to do it even in jest, in case there were people reading the thread didn't realize the gravity of the situation that could arise from 'innocent' jest.

These are observations from someone who ran a bar here for almost 13 years.

[marios]

If he had just used the zebra crossing all of this could have been avoided...

If they did cross the road away from a pedestrian crossing then they are to blame. If that was the case, the riders had a scare also and they were pissed off also because their right of way was challenged by the couple. They could have been themselves involved in an accident so they were also upset and unsettled . Of course no matter how angry or provoked you might be, sending someone to the hospital is certainly not answer.

[salapau]

Having read the responses to this article, it just confirms that Thai's have no regard for any foreigners. They can do what they like, drive dangerously at speed under the influence of drink or drugs, generally endangering everyone. When someone stands up to their idiotic, selfish culture, they act with violence.

Thailand only cares for the revenue from tourists and us residents. Why should we be intimidated by their selfish, low intellectual behaviour. They don't know the word respect. Get real they don't want us here. Well done to the German I would do exactly the same.

[kannot]

If he had just used the zebra crossing all of this could have been avoided...

Nah Thai Zebras are equally disgusting!

Sorry Asian, asian Zebras

[wolf5370]

The situation would rarely, if ever, arise in the west because road users there are educated and know how to ride / drive and are generally courteous enough to give way to pedestrians crossing the road. Time and time again in Thailand I see mopeds blazing through areas where people are crossing, giving zero regard to them...even when others, i.e. Farangs, have stopped to let them cross, e.g. at a zebra crossing. Uneducated fools with no regard for anyone but themselves.

p.s. The Farang was still stupid to give the bird but if he / his wife had just nearly been killed, I can understand why he did.

Not trying to be funny here, but in most countries in the world it is illegal to cross the road in places otherwise authorized for that purpose. If the German couple were on a crossing, then that would be another matter. IMO, both parties were wrong with what happened here (with the facts available).

I agree whole-heartedly with your PS. It seems there are a lot of people on here that don't realize what giving the bird to someone here is. Its a bit like sitting in a bar with your feet on a table pointing directly at someone at the next table.

"sitting in a bar with your feet on a table pointing directly at someone at the next table" also does not deserve violent attack. It is a sick society that accepts such a response from a non-violent slight - especially a misunderstood one!

Violence is and should never be an accepted response to anything other than violence (as in self defence) - any state that accepts violence as a response or a reprisal is low. It is not a cultural thing either, Thai culture is non-violent as is the state religion. Violence should be stamped on hard by the authorities - followed up, pushed by leaders (especially in the tourist police, TAT and local Governance), and dealt with publically and severely. Thailand is becoming more and more violent - and the seeming acceptance of this by the state is sickening - and should be of major concern to all people here in Thailand that spout on about loving the country!

Western media/governments should make much more of statistics of violence against tourists in tourist destinations - publish them online for the world to see year in year out. It may even save some of those unpaid medical bills if so many tourists in Phuket were not bludgeoned into unconsciousness by local mobs!

In no way would I condone it, and certainly agree that sitting in a bar with your feet on a table pointing directly at someone at the next table does not deserve violent attack, but here in Thailand it will absolutely invoke a violent attack regardless if the person doing it knows or not that they are doing wrong. I specifically said bar to include alcohol in the equation.

As for the 'bird', twice (albeit not in Phuket) I have witnessed guns being pushed (once literally) into peoples faces because someone thought it was clever to do this. I actually wrote this as a piece of advice earlier, not to do it even in jest, in case there were people reading the thread didn't realize the gravity of the situation that could arise from 'innocent' jest.

These are observations from someone who ran a bar here for almost 13 years.

Yeah I agree - silly mistake to make. Being British I don't instinctively give the bird, Brits being more likely to give the two finger solute (which every Thai does when being photographer anyway ). Personally I am most likely to just say something under my breath, "<deleted>!" etc. Onl;y arguments I've ever had with Thais here has been songtaew drivers trying to rip me off - and a shrug and walking away (without paying the bump up) always has worked for me there too - ignoring the theatrics and fighting cock dance they usually give from the far side of the vehicle.

Blowing raspberries can confuse them too - they are never sure whether you are insulting them or are just insane.

[kannot]

I am shocked!! It was only two against one!!

Unbelievable!! alt=blink.png width=20 height=20>

Yes, in most western countries if some doofus gave some guys on a motorbike the finger they would either (1) wave cheerfully and thank the jerk for his instructive communication because everyone in the country would be mindful of the importance of supporting tourism or (2) they would return and one would pummel the moron while his friend held everyone's outer garments but refrained from participating.

I wonder if some of you are visiting the planet for the first time.

The situation would rarely, if ever, arise in the west because road users there are educated and know how to ride / drive and are generally courteous enough to give way to pedestrians crossing the road. Time and time again in Thailand I see mopeds blazing through areas where people are crossing, giving zero regard to them...even when others, i.e. Farangs, have stopped to let them cross, e.g. at a zebra crossing. Uneducated fools with no regard for anyone but themselves.

p.s. The Farang was still stupid to give the bird but if he / his wife had just nearly been killed, I can understand why he did.

Not trying to be funny here, but in most countries in the world it is illegal to cross the road in places otherwise authorized for that purpose. If the German couple were on a crossing, then that would be another matter. IMO, both parties were wrong with what happened here (with the facts available).

I agree whole-heartedly with your PS. It seems there are a lot of people on here that don't realize what giving the bird to someone here is. Its a bit like sitting in a bar with your feet on a table pointing directly at someone at the next table.

Yeah pointing feet, lets see Thailand defend itself against any other country when they get their "pointing feet " out

ITS PATHETIC as are many Thai Males, ego before brain.

[wolf5370]

Thailand wants tourists dollars but do not enforce the laws of the land, Mayanmar will take a lot of tourist dollars from thailand and until they understand this then the beat-ing go on.

Arrivals Thailand January - June 2013: 12,7 Million (+10%).

Arrivals Myanmar 2012: just over a Million

And from today's Travel Daily Asia: Myanmar, which welcomed one million visitors in 2012, is aiming for 7.5m by 2020. However the ADB believes the country will only achieve five million arrivals by the end of the decade.

I think Myanmar and the ADB will be pleasantly surprised. I would suggest their figures are based solely on Myanmar's opening up and not on any negative push away from countries like Thailand. If the figures start to look good (and some may say they already are) and investment rules are lax enough for overseas investors, Myanmar could see much greater increase in tourist numbers with the right investment and promotion over seas (especially in China - Think Thailand, more welcoming, cheaper, friendly and with legalised casinos to boot).

[kannot]

Fist is the new smile.

They sell expanding batons in the market, fit nice in the pocket could work as a deterrent in a similar situation

Watch the brave mob run here. like a bunch of headless chickens....so funny.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZN_8LG4oyHg

[hanno]

Think Thailand, more welcoming, cheaper, friendly and with legalised casinos to boot)

Not cheaper. For what hotels are charging in Myanmar, they'll out out the red carped for me in Thailand. And I thing they euphoria about myanmar will wear off a little very quickly. I like Myanmar but it has problems such as rubbish everywhere, unprofessional hoteliers and travel agents, and a very poor infrastructure.

[dudu]

I am a martial artist/instructor and can take good care of myself, but i never get the opportunities others get, because i am very humble and always bow down and say sorry to stupid acts of others....

Hmm. So you would not want retribution if the driver had misjudged this action- which was certainly one of hostility, harassment or blatent carelessness- and run your wife down? That would also be the same "Stupid acts of others..." I do not believe your arrogant, sanctimonious drivel. Furthermore regardless of training there are many people who hide behind and blithely espouse such peaceful "wisdom" because they are simply afraid.

PS. Something that I have learned over the years is that it is more preferable to live with an ass kicking than it is to lie awake nights knowing that I have folded to being bullied. A black eye goes away but that does not.

You think my path to humbleness was without having cracked hundreds of heads all round the world?? just another fight,different head,same reasons, first stupidity, then anger fuelled by ego, you will be fighting all your life,because stupidity has no limits, i can live,knowing i spared a fools life, by not beating the living daylights out of him, and yes, if pushed and cannot evade, i will defend myself and whoever needs help at the time, no i am not superman, rather like to be the invisible man, not seen, and left alone.

[MobileContent]

Showing a middle finger in Germany to a motorist or cop is 2000 Euros fine.

I don't show middle fingers when walking or driving by I keep to myself and only Mrs will hear it. In fact she hears it all the time because driving in Isaan at time can be frustrating.

I would never give a middle finger to anyone in Thailand because I don't know who is on the other side and live is cheap in Thailand.

are you lost in your own head???? In Germany at least people stop for a pedestrian crossing cause its a hefty fine if you DON'T. and you are always wrong if you would hit a pedestrian especially on a crossing...

how on earth would anyone give me a 2000 euro fine (and btw the fine is around 150 euro to be exact) for giving a middle finger to someone who just broke the law himself and almost injured me in the process... THINK before you start typing here...

But yes, next time someone runs you over, feel free to give them a Wai and say thank you...

You don't get the point. Showing a finger in Germany is 2000 Euros. The court will decide in general who was wrong for dangerous driving but if you show someone a finger you will sure get a problem. The Middle Finger is an offense in traffic and it not tolerated as a pedestrian or driver of a vehicle. I saw it on DW TV that the fine was 2000 Euros in Munich, Bavaria.

Next time someone runs you over, no need to wai just remember his license plate and don't waste your time in showing a middle finger which gets you into trouble or killed with some local Thai drivers. If it would have been some drunken cop the German might have been popped off for loose of face.

Edited August 13, 2013 by MobileContent

[connda]

lucky he was not shot to death

Lucky he wasn't hit by the motorcycle, severely injured, then shot, hacked, or stabbed to death for being in the way.

[connda]

I am shocked!! It was only two against one!!

Unbelievable!! alt=blink.png width=20 height=20>

Yes, in most western countries if some doofus gave some guys on a motorbike the finger they would either (1) wave cheerfully and thank the jerk for his instructive communication because everyone in the country would be mindful of the importance of supporting tourism or (2) they would return and one would pummel the moron while his friend held everyone's outer garments but refrained from participating.

I wonder if some of you are visiting the planet for the first time.

The situation would rarely, if ever, arise in the west because road users there are educated and know how to ride / drive and are generally courteous enough to give way to pedestrians crossing the road. Time and time again in Thailand I see mopeds blazing through areas where people are crossing, giving zero regard to them...even when others, i.e. Farangs, have stopped to let them cross, e.g. at a zebra crossing. Uneducated fools with no regard for anyone but themselves.

p.s. The Farang was still stupid to give the bird but if he / his wife had just nearly been killed, I can understand why he did.

Not trying to be funny here, but in most countries in the world it is illegal to cross the road in places otherwise authorized for that purpose. If the German couple were on a crossing, then that would be another matter. IMO, both parties were wrong with what happened here (with the facts available).

I agree whole-heartedly with your PS. It seems there are a lot of people on here that don't realize what giving the bird to someone here is. Its a bit like sitting in a bar with your feet on a table pointing directly at someone at the next table.

The first week I was her, a high speed motorcycle missed me by inches while I was crossing in a crosswalk under a solid run light to traffic and a flashing green light for pedestrians. The jacka** split traffic and flashed by so close I could feel the draft of air pushing off his motorcycle.

Lesson 1: Crosswalks don't mean a da*n thing here in LOS.

[Mousehound]

I am shocked!! It was only two against one!!

Unbelievable!!

Yes, in most western countries if some doofus gave some guys on a motorbike the finger they would either (1) wave cheerfully and thank the jerk for his instructive communication because everyone in the country would be mindful of the importance of supporting tourism or (2) they would return and one would pummel the moron while his friend held everyone's outer garments but refrained from participating.

I wonder if some of you are visiting the planet for the first time.

There is no way you would give the finger to a bike rider/s or even motorists in Australia no matter what the provocation. You may get similar treatment to the German guy in Patong. And there would not be any old fashioned ideas of one to one chivalry - you would be beaten up by the guy and is many friends.

I am often puzzled by the comments by many contributors that Thais are cowardly in ganging up on their adversary. Where have you people been? In any conflict you attack in force, preferably outnumbering and out gunning your enemy. How do you think all wars have been won throughout history? The Thais are not cowards - just using their common sense. I would advise anyone else to do the same.

I happily give Ausie drivers (some of the worst drivers in the developed world IMHO) the finger. But actually, I find if you blow them a kiss instead and laugh at them it really gets them going. By the way, I am Australian.

[BradinAsia]

Sounds to me like he got exactly what he deserved.

If I had been there I would've been more than happy to help the "Asian"

men teach the dumb-a$$es an overdue lesson in proper tourist behavior.

Hopefully, a few more barbaric westerners will have second thoughts

before they come here and show how uncivilized they are.

Good job Asian guys!

[techboy]

The guy driving the bike deliberately and with hostile intent drove down the street fast and ignored the safety of the pedestrians because it was a street full of foreigners. It was to his satisfaction that he intimidated and came close to injuring those people. I was not there but this is what happened- will never believe otherwise. Experience speaking.

The only thing that the German did wrong was not keep an eye on the guys to see if they were going to retaliate and not look for something to use as a weapon when he saw them returning. To any sub-simian intellegence that asserts that the tourist in any way deserved being assaulted afterwards I hope that future experience enlightens you in a deserving fashion. Showing contempt by flipping someone the bird is harmless to the recipient. Showing contempt by speeding in a motor vehicle through an area with lots of pedestrians can get someone killed.

Edited August 13, 2013 by techboy

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Violence is and should never be an accepted response to anything other than violence (as in self defence) - any state that accepts violence as a response or a reprisal is low. It is not a cultural thing either, Thai culture is non-violent as is the state religion. Violence should be stamped on hard by the authorities - followed up, pushed by leaders (especially in the tourist police, TAT and local Governance), and dealt with publically and severely. Thailand is becoming more and more violent - and the seeming acceptance of this by the state is sickening - and should be of major concern to all people here in Thailand that spout on about loving the country!

Thailand has always been a country of extreme violence. Most foreigners just didn't see it so 'in their face'.

When Thaksin wanted rid of drug dealers, he had them all shot on sight.

When the military wanted a change of government, out came the tanks and troops (20 coups in 40 years).

This is a violent and primitive country, as feudal societies always were throughout all of history.

[Changboy]

"Jefrey Rokels" is not a German name.

I am German, I don´t know any German man by the name of Jeff or Jefrey.

German names are Klaus, Jürgen or Otto.

So, maybe it was an English or Australian guy, maybe he was drunk, maybe the story was totally different....

[EyesWideOpen]

Very impressed by only two on one. Maybe the Thais are getting tougher..

[iSabai]

Thailand has always been a country of extreme violence. Most foreigners just didn't see it so 'in their face'.

When Thaksin wanted rid of drug dealers, he had them all shot on sight.

When the military wanted a change of government, out came the tanks and troops (20 coups in 40 years).

This is a violent and primitive country, as feudal societies always were throughout all of history.

Yep, violent and primitive. You should run for your very life. And take all the other like-minded folks with you. Thailand was a much better place before all the mainstream farangs came here for conjugal holidays anyway.

[BwindiBoy]

Violence is and should never be an accepted response to anything other than violence (as in self defence) - any state that accepts violence as a response or a reprisal is low. It is not a cultural thing either, Thai culture is non-violent as is the state religion. Violence should be stamped on hard by the authorities - followed up, pushed by leaders (especially in the tourist police, TAT and local Governance), and dealt with publically and severely. Thailand is becoming more and more violent - and the seeming acceptance of this by the state is sickening - and should be of major concern to all people here in Thailand that spout on about loving the country!

Thailand has always been a country of extreme violence. Most foreigners just didn't see it so 'in their face'.

When Thaksin wanted rid of drug dealers, he had them all shot on sight.

When the military wanted a change of government, out came the tanks and troops (20 coups in 40 years).

This is a violent and primitive country, as feudal societies always were throughout all of history.

I must admit, much as I do (believe it or not from some of my posts) try to see the positives in Thailand - it can be a great place to holiday (extended or not) - I am thinking more and more along the lines of your post.

Maybe it's as I get a little older (45), realise my own limitations (compared to when I was younger) and start to think more about my responsibilities to others to stick around on this planet, but the more I weigh things up, the less likely I want to return to Thailand...

...but I still fight those thoughts, because (as a girl at work put it after her first visit last year) the best thing about Thailand is how it makes you feel when you're there. As I get a bit older, I increasingly want to feel "safe" though.

Don't get me wrong; I'm still a youngster really. It's just that I'm also an eternal realist...

[chrisinth]

Violence is and should never be an accepted response to anything other than violence (as in self defence) - any state that accepts violence as a response or a reprisal is low. It is not a cultural thing either, Thai culture is non-violent as is the state religion. Violence should be stamped on hard by the authorities - followed up, pushed by leaders (especially in the tourist police, TAT and local Governance), and dealt with publically and severely. Thailand is becoming more and more violent - and the seeming acceptance of this by the state is sickening - and should be of major concern to all people here in Thailand that spout on about loving the country!

Thailand has always been a country of extreme violence. Most foreigners just didn't see it so 'in their face'.

When Thaksin wanted rid of drug dealers, he had them all shot on sight.

When the military wanted a change of government, out came the tanks and troops (20 coups in 40 years).

This is a violent and primitive country, as feudal societies always were throughout all of history.

I must admit, much as I do (believe it or not from some of my posts) try to see the positives in Thailand - it can be a great place to holiday (extended or not) - I am thinking more and more along the lines of your post.

Maybe it's as I get a little older (45), realise my own limitations (compared to when I was younger) and start to think more about my responsibilities to others to stick around on this planet, but the more I weigh things up, the less likely I want to return to Thailand...

...but I still fight those thoughts, because (as a girl at work put it after her first visit last year) the best thing about Thailand is how it makes you feel when you're there. As I get a bit older, I increasingly want to feel "safe" though.

Don't get me wrong; I'm still a youngster really. It's just that I'm also an eternal realist...

Yep, I could easily agree with those sentiments..............

One of the things I have found as I grow older is that, in some circumstances, blame turns to shame.

I like to think that this is part of growing up, being able to look at both sides of a story instead of taking the path of least resistance.

Of course, I could be very wrong in my thinking.........................

[mok199]

some people are so immiture....any reason to beat down a falang....

[Sirius1935]

The guy driving the bike deliberately and with hostile intent drove down the street fast and ignored the safety of the pedestrians because it was a street full of foreigners. It was to his satisfaction that he intimidated and came close to injuring those people. I was not there but this is what happened- will never believe otherwise. Experience speaking.

The only thing that the German did wrong was not keep an eye on the guys to see if they were going to retaliate and not look for something to use as a weapon when he saw them returning. To any sub-simian intellegence that asserts that the tourist in any way deserved being assaulted afterwards I hope that future experience enlightens you in a deserving fashion. Showing contempt by flipping someone the bird is harmless to the recipient. Showing contempt by speeding in a motor vehicle through an area with lots of pedestrians can get someone killed.

Someone wrote on another thread on this forum a few months ago that you have to remember that Thai men in their twenties have the emotional maturity of a 13 year old girl.

I thought that was a gross insult.

My grand daughter in Australia is 13 and she has far more common sense and emotional maturity than a Thai man in his twenties.

Be careful. They are dangerous.

[LivinginKata]

3 unhelpful posts removed.

[Wavefloater]

There's often talk about the generally low IQ that is a result of the poor and misguided education system here in Thailand, but more and more educators and psychologists in other countries are now professing that a high EQ (emotional quotient) is just as important for success. Although there's more to it, basically, it come down to how maturely and reasonably one can handle their emotions. I'm afraid to say that Thais fail miserably in this area.The degree of reaction Thais have to the middle finger being extended is WAY over the top -- simply not rational. I can't see that things are going to get better in that regard, so perhaps embassies, etc. need to warn tourists coming to this country that something generally laughed at in Western countries can literally get you killed in Thailand.

I'll admit to having learned this the hard way (but not by getting killed, of course). In my first year here, I was in a situation where a bus blocked the driveway of my destination for about 5 minutes before slowly and begrudgingly moving it a few feet so I could get by. He knew I was there waiting to turn into the parking lot but just didn't respond, so I was angry. As I drove by, I "flipped the bird" at him then parked my car near the entrance of the building. When I finished my appointment and returned to my car there was big dent in the driver's side door,and and between my limited Thai and his very limited English the timid little security guard explained that the bus driver had done it. He then pointed to his middle finger and said, "very bad". I now knew he was serious, and I've resisted expressing my feelings in that manner when it would have been automatic in my home country.

[eezergood]

The low IQ i thing I was also told, was due in part to a lack of Iron - hence the ioidinisation of salt etc......

[ThePinkPanther]

The German wrong! If he not come to Thailand the incident not happen!

Oh YEA, for sure!! I love it. Whaaahahahaha.