Condo glut

[thaimat]

It looks like the speculators bubble has burst! Years of "flipping" condos has attracted so many to the quick money, that we now have, I am told, 50,000 new condos being built in Jomtien alone! Prices now seem to be coming down on rentals and sales from the false highs of the past few years. How these developers plan to sell so many new condos is a mystery to me, since they probably bought the land at bubble prices. With the continuation of bad press here, such as the oil spill, the constant news stories of tourists meeting with violence here, and "quality" tourist numbers still in steady decline, the addition of so many new condos in such a small community will surely have a severe impact on sales and rental prices for years to come. Any thoughts?

[ThaiBob]

No thoughts as this has discussed tooooo many times here before. This could be construed as a troll post. Can't we discuss baht buses?

Edited August 19, 2013 by ThaiBob

[Spalpeen]

There are numerous large condo developments under way in Jomtien, but nothing like 50,000.

The oil spill in Rayong has no bearing on the Pattaya property market at all.

There's no decline in quality tourists because there were never many to start with.

As ThaiBob says, the end of the supposed property bubble here is predicted every few weeks and it never happens.

[Jingthing]

...

Can't we discuss baht buses?

Yes, please!

[craigt3365]

...

Can't we discuss baht buses?

Yes, please!

NO, please!!!

[JSixpack]

Oh, goody! The weekly OVERBUILT PATTAYA thread. The usual HATE CONDOS, FOOLS BUY REAL ESTATE, and DYING PATTAYA brigades will soon arrive in force.

We just finished one of these: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/659958-why-are-condos-so-much-more-than-houses/

And all that can and will be said was already said here just late last year: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/587350-to-invest-a-condo-in-pattaya-will-it-be-a-good-investment/?hl=%2Bcondo

Why another one? Can't we give it a rest or just post in the old threads?

[jbrain]

...

Can't we discuss baht buses?

Yes, please!

NO, please!!!

We should ask the Baht bus authority of this forum.....................Oops he was here already

[jbrain]

Don't worry about a condo glut in Pattaya, it will solve itself since half of the purposed units for which is taken deposits will never be built.

Problem solved.

[i claudius]

Yes there are too many ,yes they are overpriced ,will they drop in price ,i doubt it very much ,unless something drastic happens here ,as you all know the Thai mentality ,if its not selling ,put the price up.

[jbrain]

Yes there are too many ,yes they are overpriced ,will they drop in price ,i doubt it very much ,unless something drastic happens here ,as you all know the Thai mentality ,if its not selling ,put the price up.

99% of those condo's are foreign projects, so doubt much Thai mentality comes in play.

[WitawatWatawit]

Tell me, condo, condo, condo

We can share a love divine

Please don't make me wait again

When will you say yes to me?

New ad jingle for the condo developers. They might need a little help.

[JSixpack]

Yes there are too many ,yes they are overpriced ,will they drop in price ,i doubt it very much ,unless something drastic happens here ,as you all know the Thai mentality ,if its not selling ,put the price up.

99% of those condo's are foreign projects, so doubt much Thai mentality comes in play.

Hey--you're injecting sour factual notes into the sweet music. Stop it!

Edited August 19, 2013 by JSixpack

[Spalpeen]

My wife told me something about the new condo developments in Jomtien that I didn't know. She got this from the horse's mouth, and it probably applies just as much to Pattaya developments.

Many foreigners buy condos because they think that they can own them outright, unlike houses and land. But the developers are not buying the freehold on the land, they are taking the land on a 30 year lease. That means that after 30 years, with the original developer and his profits long gone, the land will revert to it's original owner and whoever owns the condo at that time will lose it.

[KittenKong]

There are numerous large condo developments under way in Jomtien, but nothing like 50,000.

A recent article in Pattaya Mail indicates that the property boom in Pattaya is going to continue with “Low-priced condominiums the trend de jour for both developers and buyers.” The article went on to say “Pattaya now has an amazing 232 projects with 50,000 units being offered for sale worth a total of 173 billion Baht."

(OK, I agree that the vast bulk of everything written in the local press is complete <deleted>, but who knows?)

As ThaiBob says, the end of the supposed property bubble here is predicted every few weeks and it never happens.

Actually there have already been two major crashes, the effects of which (old abandoned building shells) can be easily seen all over the place.

[jbrain]

My wife told me something about the new condo developments in Jomtien that I didn't know. She got this from the horse's mouth, and it probably applies just as much to Pattaya developments.

Many foreigners buy condos because they think that they can own them outright, unlike houses and land. But the developers are not buying the freehold on the land, they are taking the land on a 30 year lease. That means that after 30 years, with the original developer and his profits long gone, the land will revert to it's original owner and whoever owns the condo at that time will lose it.

I guess that horse should be used to make Ikea meatballs, because if the land was only leased the buyer would never receive a title deed with his name on from the land department.

Edited August 19, 2013 by jbrain

[Spalpeen]

My wife told me something about the new condo developments in Jomtien that I didn't know. She got this from the horse's mouth, and it probably applies just as much to Pattaya developments.

Many foreigners buy condos because they think that they can own them outright, unlike houses and land. But the developers are not buying the freehold on the land, they are taking the land on a 30 year lease. That means that after 30 years, with the original developer and his profits long gone, the land will revert to it's original owner and whoever owns the condo at that time will lose it.

I guess that horse should be used to make Ikea meatballs, because if the land was only leased the buyer would never receive a title deed with his name on from the land department.

You must be new here if you believe everything that comes out of the land office. The horse is a major property developer currently building a large project in Jomtien.

[jbrain]

My wife told me something about the new condo developments in Jomtien that I didn't know. She got this from the horse's mouth, and it probably applies just as much to Pattaya developments.

Many foreigners buy condos because they think that they can own them outright, unlike houses and land. But the developers are not buying the freehold on the land, they are taking the land on a 30 year lease. That means that after 30 years, with the original developer and his profits long gone, the land will revert to it's original owner and whoever owns the condo at that time will lose it.

I guess that horse should be used to make Ikea meatballs, because if the land was only leased the buyer would never receive a title deed with his name on from the land department.

You must be new here if you believe everything that comes out of the land office. The horse is a major property developer currently building a large project in Jomtien.

Well, I arrived quite a few days ago, but do I understand correctly that this developer claims that the land department issues false title deeds ?

[ThaiBob]

My wife told me something about the new condo developments in Jomtien that I didn't know. She got this from the horse's mouth, and it probably applies just as much to Pattaya developments.

Many foreigners buy condos because they think that they can own them outright, unlike houses and land. But the developers are not buying the freehold on the land, they are taking the land on a 30 year lease. That means that after 30 years, with the original developer and his profits long gone, the land will revert to it's original owner and whoever owns the condo at that time will lose it.

I guess that horse should be used to make Ikea meatballs, because if the land was only leased the buyer would never receive a title deed with his name on from the land department.

You must be new here if you believe everything that comes out of the land office. The horse is a major property developer currently building a large project in Jomtien.

As a public service you name this developer and the project.

[craigt3365]

My wife told me something about the new condo developments in Jomtien that I didn't know. She got this from the horse's mouth, and it probably applies just as much to Pattaya developments.

Many foreigners buy condos because they think that they can own them outright, unlike houses and land. But the developers are not buying the freehold on the land, they are taking the land on a 30 year lease. That means that after 30 years, with the original developer and his profits long gone, the land will revert to it's original owner and whoever owns the condo at that time will lose it.

I guess that horse should be used to make Ikea meatballs, because if the land was only leased the buyer would never receive a title deed with his name on from the land department.

You must be new here if you believe everything that comes out of the land office. The horse is a major property developer currently building a large project in Jomtien.

As a public service you name this developer and the project.

Please don't ever do this here. It's a violation of forum rules. And one we take very seriously! As do the courts here in Thailand, unfortunately.

6) Not to post comments that could be reasonably construed as defamation or libel.Defamation is the issuance of a false statement about another person, which causes that person to suffer harm. Libel involves the making of defamatory statements in a printed or fixed medium, such as a magazine or newspaper.

[LennyW]

My wife told me something about the new condo developments in Jomtien that I didn't know. She got this from the horse's mouth, and it probably applies just as much to Pattaya developments.

Many foreigners buy condos because they think that they can own them outright, unlike houses and land. But the developers are not buying the freehold on the land, they are taking the land on a 30 year lease. That means that after 30 years, with the original developer and his profits long gone, the land will revert to it's original owner and whoever owns the condo at that time will lose it.

I guess that horse should be used to make Ikea meatballs, because if the land was only leased the buyer would never receive a title deed with his name on from the land department.

I heard this many years ago, that most of the beachfront condos were on leased land - never did find out if it was correct.

[Spalpeen]

I'm too old and wise to be naming anyone here. If you own a 'farang name' condo try this experiment. Ask your lawyer or the land office who is the ultimate owner of the freehold on the land under your building. Check if the reply includes the phrases 'Well....', ''Errr.....' or 'it's not that easy'. Ask them what will happen after 30 years.

[ThaiBob]

My wife told me something about the new condo developments in Jomtien that I didn't know. She got this from the horse's mouth, and it probably applies just as much to Pattaya developments.

Many foreigners buy condos because they think that they can own them outright, unlike houses and land. But the developers are not buying the freehold on the land, they are taking the land on a 30 year lease. That means that after 30 years, with the original developer and his profits long gone, the land will revert to it's original owner and whoever owns the condo at that time will lose it.

I guess that horse should be used to make Ikea meatballs, because if the land was only leased the buyer would never receive a title deed with his name on from the land department.

I heard this many years ago, that most of the beachfront condos were on leased land - never did find out if it was correct.

This is not Bangkok, I can tell you of many friends who live on the beach their free-hold condos.

[Pattaya46]

But the developers are not buying the freehold on the land, they are taking the land on a 30 year lease.

It's just not possible. The "juristic entity" who wants to become a "Condominium" must be the one and only owner of the land. Once made, the owners of the condominium units are "part-owners" of the land, but through this "juristic entity". Land then can't be sold.

We had a long discussion on this point a few years ago, with many legal references, but can't find it again. Main point was that you would not be able to get chanotes for the part-owners if you only had a lease.

[Spalpeen]

What was the name of that development in Jomtien where people bought condos with a sea view thinking that Thai law made it 'not possible' for the developer to build another tower right in front of them? Court case dragged on for years.

I don't know the fine print of how they go about it but I can tell you that there is at least one developer doing precisely this, and not for the first time.

[ThaiBob]

My wife told me something about the new condo developments in Jomtien that I didn't know. She got this from the horse's mouth, and it probably applies just as much to Pattaya developments.

Many foreigners buy condos because they think that they can own them outright, unlike houses and land. But the developers are not buying the freehold on the land, they are taking the land on a 30 year lease. That means that after 30 years, with the original developer and his profits long gone, the land will revert to it's original owner and whoever owns the condo at that time will lose it.

I guess that horse should be used to make Ikea meatballs, because if the land was only leased the buyer would never receive a title deed with his name on from the land department.

You must be new here if you believe everything that comes out of the land office. The horse is a major property developer currently building a large project in Jomtien.

As a public service you name this developer and the project.

Please don't ever do this here. It's a violation of forum rules. And one we take very seriously! As do the courts here in Thailand, unfortunately.

6) Not to post comments that could be reasonably construed as defamation or libel.Defamation is the issuance of a false statement about another person, which causes that person to suffer harm. Libel involves the making of defamatory statements in a printed or fixed medium, such as a magazine or newspaper.

I certainly would not ask the poster to do anything that might be construed as defamatory or libelous. However, free-hold and lease-hold condos are both perfectly legal. If he knows of a lease hold condo project, state so, but what he implies is the land office is falsely issuing property titles and that is libelous.

[KittenKong]

What was the name of that development in Jomtien where people bought condos with a sea view thinking that Thai law made it 'not possible' for the developer to build another tower right in front of them? Court case dragged on for years.

I don't know the fine print of how they go about it but I can tell you that there is at least one developer doing precisely this, and not for the first time.

That's a very different situation. The land in front of that older condo (Jomtien Complex) was initially used for low-rise structures, but a much taller building (VT7) was later built on it, and some would say that this was contrary to the law relating to high-rise buildings near the sea. That court case did drag on for years, in fact for all I know it may still be dragging. Either way there appears to be no question that the land on which both the newer and older buildings are built belongs to the respective building; it it didnt then they could not be condos with chanotes, just apartments.

Anyone in his right mind who buys any sort of property here should make sure that the land on each side is already built out, or cannot be subject to any detrimental change of use. Over the years I have rejected many properties for that reason, and subsequently in many cases I have been proven right to do so (VT1, Chateau Dale, VT6, Metro, Executive Residence, VT Residence etc) and I suspect that the others will go the same way in the future (VT8, VT5D etc).

[JSixpack]

...

Can't we discuss baht buses?

Yes, please!

NO, please!!!

OK. How 'bout we do the Russians again? Breakfast buffets?

I love those hot Russian women I see around nowadays. Even the fat ol' potato farmers have lovely daughters.

Edited August 19, 2013 by JSixpack

[Spalpeen]

"I certainly would not ask the poster to do anything that might be construed as defamatory or libelous. However, free-hold and lease-hold condos are both perfectly legal. If he knows of a lease hold condo project, state so, but what he implies is the land office is falsely issuing property titles and that is libelous." /quote]

I don't remember saying they were issuing false titles. You'll find that whatever they do is technically 'legal' in terms of Thai law. But unless you're an expert on the fine print of Thai property law you may find that the paper you have isn't what you were led to believe. Anyone who thinks that the business of land and property in Pattaya is entirely above board is kidding themselves. I learned about the ethics of the land office when I first started doing business here. I won't be making that mistake again.

Edited August 19, 2013 by Spalpeen

[Pattaya46]

... you may find that the paper you have isn't what you were led to believe.

So what is the paper they give to buyers ??

A Chanote is a Chanote. I don't see how you could confuse it with something else. You have Chanote writen in big in the center and on several other places of the main page.

You warn us but you refuse to give any detail! Please tell us at least what 'legal document' they would try to give us instead of the true Chanote, and how to recognize each other.

[Spalpeen]

... you may find that the paper you have isn't what you were led to believe.

So what is the paper they give to buyers ??

A Chanote is a Chanote. I don't see how you could confuse it with something else. You have Chanote writen in big in the center and on several other places of the main page.

You warn us but you refuse to give any detail! Please tell us at least what 'legal document' they would try to give us instead of the true Chanote, and how to recognize each other.

Go back and read what I've already said before posting again. I specifically said that I don't know the detail of how it works. Nor do I care, since I don't own any farang-name properties. I reported information gained from a conversation with someone who is in a position to know, for the benefit of anyone who is not aware of this possibility. One day you may find that "farang chanote not same-same Thai chanote". It wouldn't be the most surprising thing that's ever happened in this country. Edited August 19, 2013 by Spalpeen