Sin sot for stepson, what's right?

[Bluetongue]

One of the hardest things I have found settling in here is dealing with the two stepsons. I have been here nearly 5 years now. One is now 16 going on 17 and the other is 27. The 17 year old is a luk kreung and I seem to get on much better with him maybe because I was able to do a few things with him when I first got here before he grew up so much. So even though there are issues, for me they are more in the context of a teenager growing up so I don’t need to worry about him – yet.

The other one was in the Army when I got here doing his 2 years conscription. When he got home from that I didn’t know him, apart from a couple of flying visits that he had made. There are lots of things he has done that have really annoyed me, sometimes unfairly I suppose. I won’t go into those here as it’s really all just history now. But once he finally got the permanent basic wage job for life with the big local company, things got better. His presence in the house still got me on edge but he was gone a lot. Then things got even better when my niece built a house 6km away in a small town and then for some reason decided not to live in it, he moved in there and for the last few months I have barely seen him at all. Mind you the other niece who still lives there complains to me all the time about him, not turning off lights and appliances, leaving the hose running, going out without locking or closing doors, leaving a mess in the kitchen and not contributing any money at all. I just smile.

He has a 5 year old daughter and is estranged from the mother who was 14 when she gave birth. Her parents wanted the Police to take him away, but couldn’t get it together so a village wedding was arranged, her parents got their 20k baht from my sister-in-law (who would have got it ultimately from my wife who wasn’t here at that time) and they lived happily apart – he was in the Army, breaking up in spectacular public fashion here at Songkran in 2009. I witnessed that and felt sorry for the girl who had caught him carrying on with another female.

Anyway sometime after that he has a new girlfriend. I met her and her parents in 2011 when we were having a party here and he wanted her to come. The wife and I had to chaperone them, but since then the relationship has gone on, and they spend weekends together if they can. She was doing a 3 year degree in Bangkok, so he would go up there usually. Now she has finished and she has a job in an office in Chon Buri and comes up to stay with him some weekends. Her parents, I am reasonably sure do not know any of this.

Now they want to get married. I heard this through the niece who was telling us here at home that the girlfriend had spoken in front of her saying that for her to marry him she wanted 300k. I still can’t find my jaw which hit the ground running, but I didn’t let on that I was deeply disturbed both by the amount and the manner in which it was raised. What I did say was that at no time would I have such a sum just laying around but that I would be happy to talk to her parents. My wife then said “oh he could work our orchards for a year and the profit would come to about that”. I said no I need that money next year. At this stage the niece said “oh that’s fine she’ll wait another year. “

This all leads me to think that this was actually the only approach I’m going to get. I’ve read the pinned topic on Sin Sot and thanks to those contributors as I really don’t know much about it. Before the herd munch on me I meant it when I said I would never have that much lying around and the wife knows it too. So it’s not coming out of my pocket. The issue will come to a head one day I suppose. My wife’s suggestion is fraught with danger. She hasn’t discussed it with him and even if he agreed I wouldn’t as he would need to be supported while he did it and it would still be us taking the risk as far as the costs of the orchard went.

My understanding is that the principal of Sin Sot is to show how well the husband can support the wife and her family. He hasn’t saved a baht of his salary for more than 2 years. She is probably on a much better salary than he is but her parents are obviously very poor. Is there any knowledge of how much a Thai family might contribute to the son’s marriage? Is there any knowledge of precedent as far as the amount? My knowledge of precedent only goes to village weddings where the girl is pregnant and these I have seen 3 or 4, have been universally 20k and borrowed gold. Forgetting my other resources, me and the wife as a couple make 3 or 4 hundred off the farm, her parents have no land, have sold it. I’m guessing the girl probably has a University loan to pay off.

As it stands I will do nothing, perhaps if I wait she will find another bloke in the big city or get pregnant. My gut feeling is to give him nothing but I also want to be permanently rid of him. If I was a lion I would have killed him 5 years ago. Any comment, I will take the <deleted> are you doing ones on the chin and sift the dross looking for any reasonable answers.

[transam]

I would let the ''family'' sort it out, I would stay well clear. I would say, nothing to do with me or my finances.

[MissFarmGirl]

maybe I not understand 100% ?

but this my thinking - this not your problem

the man who marry the girl, your step son has to have the money, not you

it wrong if your wife promise to give to him for you - wrong 100%

she not respect you - say no - say strong

many men borrow the money, but I suggest to you not lend to him, tell him to get for other person - not you

the man before this give good adise - this not your problem

difiificlut to know what money is correct because you don't say about the girl - what she like?

I recommend to step back, give nothing, not your problem

but if the wedding happen then give gift at wedding from wife and you, maybe 2 or 3 thousand baht in folded letter

maybe also help little bit with the price for the wedding

wish you good luck

[Neeranam]

It's irrelevant how much the sin sot should be. The step son will know. However, if there is a naive farang around who thinks it's his responsibility to pay it, they'll milk him for all they can.

Let him borrow from the bank.

Good luck with your wife as Thai woman and their sons come always before their husband, especially if he is foreign and unaware of the rules.

Did you pay sinsot when you got married? If you did, then they'll already have no respect for you.

[transam]

It's irrelevant how much the sin sot should be. The step son will know. However, if there is a naive farang around who thinks it's his responsibility to pay it, they'll milk him for all they can.

Let him borrow from the bank.

Good luck with your wife as Thai woman and their sons come always before their husband, especially if he is foreign and unaware of the rules.

Did you pay sinsot when you got married? If you did, then they'll already have no respect for you.

And, if there is a farang anywhere in the background there always seems to be different set of figures involved. ..............

[A1Str8]

Listen to the smart responses and stay away from it. It is none of your business he has to sort it out.

Sent from one of my devices using the internet

[glassdude007]

If it was me.....

I would open a bank account just in my name

and slowly fill it up with the money that could possibly be used for this sin sot,

In a year or so when they come looking for sin sot cash tell them no hab sorry...

For sure this sin sot is not your responsibility its the Husbands ...

then when the dust settles you got a nice nest in the bank egg to share with your wife and good stepchild..

If you want...

good luck

[Johnniey]

You say you would have killed him and now even contemplating paying his sin sot?

Get a hit man.

If you are stupid enouh to pay his sin sot , he will never go away.

[EyesWideOpen]

0

[harryfrompattaya]

You say you would have killed him and now even contemplating paying his sin sot?

Get a hit man.

If you are stupid enouh to pay his sin sot , he will never go away.

Maybe if the Father in Law of your step son has a mistress you can build the Father in Law Mistress a house. they have plans for your money you can bet

Given them nothing maybe leave in the mid of night that is your way out

[Bluetongue]

I would let the ''family'' sort it out, I would stay well clear. I would say, nothing to do with me or my finances.

Good advice. My personal finances have been isolated, it is joint stuff that has to be excluded at this point, ie the orchards are joint some of it being her land, some rented.

I would say that there was an infinitesimal chance that the family would want me anywhere near any "sorting out"

[Bluetongue]

maybe I not understand 100% ?

but this my thinking - this not your problem

the man who marry the girl, your step son has to have the money, not you agree but not a chance

it wrong if your wife promise to give to him for you - wrong 100%

she not respect you - say no - say strong no promise just a suggestion

many men borrow the money, but I suggest to you not lend to him, tell him to get for other person - not you I would never lend him as he would not pay it back, he has zero chance of lending from somewhere else

the man before this give good adise - this not your problem

difiificlut to know what money is correct because you don't say about the girl - what she like? well she's pretty, a bit clever, reputation intact as far as her parents concerned, but from a very poor family

I recommend to step back, give nothing, not your problem

but if the wedding happen then give gift at wedding from wife and you, maybe 2 or 3 thousand baht in folded letter yes well I would do that, the missus would probably be a lot more if she had it

maybe also help little bit with the price for the wedding yes I would do that but within reason, no dancing girls

wish you good luck thanks

[Bluetongue]

It's irrelevant how much the sin sot should be. The step son will know. However, if there is a naive farang around who thinks it's his responsibility to pay it, they'll milk him for all they can.

Let him borrow from the bank.

Good luck with your wife as Thai woman and their sons come always before their husband, especially if he is foreign and unaware of the rules.

Did you pay sinsot when you got married? If you did, then they'll already have no respect for you.

OK so the step son will know how much it should be. A lot less than 300k then as it is his responsibility and he has no prospect of ever accumulating such a sum, nor has he made even the slightest effort, no chance of borrowing from a bank. So it must be less, a lot less and this is just a purely manipulative attempt. In fact perhaps she knows him well enough by now to know that he is a loser and her only chance is to rake it from the farang. I don't think it's my responsibility to pay it, but I did want to know what ballpark the game was being played in. I mean do the stepson and his girl even know what sin sot is supposed to be about, do young Thai's in general or has that part been forgotten. And yes the wife and I have had difficulties about him in general, much easier for me to not discuss him with her and if he does something that pisses me off, let him know directly.

I did pay 100k plus 4bht gold about 60k at the time. It was a spur of the moment thing that I have not regretted. I have never felt any lack of respect from my wife although she is a very strong character or adult family members, they know for instance that they have to ask me before doing something that affects me.The money went on new tyres for the farm utility which we all use, the wedding costs and I guess they would have skimmed the rest. The MIL didn't keep it she's about 90. My wife still has the gold - will she sell it, it still would not realise a third of this amount but its a possibility

[Bluetongue]

It's irrelevant how much the sin sot should be. The step son will know. However, if there is a naive farang around who thinks it's his responsibility to pay it, they'll milk him for all they can.

Let him borrow from the bank.

Good luck with your wife as Thai woman and their sons come always before their husband, especially if he is foreign and unaware of the rules.

Did you pay sinsot when you got married? If you did, then they'll already have no respect for you.

And, if there is a farang anywhere in the background there always seems to be different set of figures involved. ..............

Exactly, how much different though?

[Bluetongue]

You say you would have killed him and now even contemplating paying his sin sot?

Get a hit man.

If you are stupid enouh to pay his sin sot , he will never go away.

Actually I said if I was a lion I would have killed him, that's what male lions do to stepson's. A hit man is just a tad extreme.

So I'm not stupid enough to pay his sin sot, but how do I get him to go away?

[harryfrompattaya]

You say you would have killed him and now even contemplating paying his sin sot?

Get a hit man.

If you are stupid enouh to pay his sin sot , he will never go away.

Actually I said if I was a lion I would have killed him, that's what male lions do to stepson's. A hit man is just a tad extreme.

So I'm not stupid enough to pay his sin sot, but how do I get him to go away?

He will never leave you until he knows another Farang that he can annoy for money

He likes free money why should he leave If he ask for 10,000 you only give him 500 What Farang will give him 500 none

So he needs you he will never leave but he will give you a baby to watch or when has one he needs more

[Jasun]

He's a scumbag pedophile, go back to plan A and make like a lion.

[Neeranam]

It's irrelevant how much the sin sot should be. The step son will know. However, if there is a naive farang around who thinks it's his responsibility to pay it, they'll milk him for all they can.

Let him borrow from the bank.

Good luck with your wife as Thai woman and their sons come always before their husband, especially if he is foreign and unaware of the rules.

Did you pay sinsot when you got married? If you did, then they'll already have no respect for you.

OK so the step son will know how much it should be. A lot less than 300k then as it is his responsibility and he has no prospect of ever accumulating such a sum, nor has he made even the slightest effort, no chance of borrowing from a bank. So it must be less, a lot less and this is just a purely manipulative attempt. In fact perhaps she knows him well enough by now to know that he is a loser and her only chance is to rake it from the farang. I don't think it's my responsibility to pay it, but I did want to know what ballpark the game was being played in. I mean do the stepson and his girl even know what sin sot is supposed to be about, do young Thai's in general or has that part been forgotten. And yes the wife and I have had difficulties about him in general, much easier for me to not discuss him with her and if he does something that pisses me off, let him know directly.

I did pay 100k plus 4bht gold about 60k at the time. It was a spur of the moment thing that I have not regretted. I have never felt any lack of respect from my wife although she is a very strong character or adult family members, they know for instance that they have to ask me before doing something that affects me.The money went on new tyres for the farm utility which we all use, the wedding costs and I guess they would have skimmed the rest. The MIL didn't keep it she's about 90. My wife still has the gold - will she sell it, it still would not realise a third of this amount but its a possibility

Fair enough, that's the same as the sinsot I paid but with 6 baht of gold, when it was only 6,000 baht per baht. However my it was my wife's first marriage and she had no kids. My in laws screwed me as they never gave the cash back. We got the gold and the wedding was taken out of it for 200 people. So they actually did themselves harm as because they never played by the rules, I refused to give them a penny for years.

At least your not a naive mug that are so common around Khon Kaen.

How about lending him some cash and get something in writing that you will get it back immediately after the wedding? If they make a fuss, then say, "fine, get it from someone else".

Regarding getting rid of him - very difficult in the farang/step son relationships I've known. One guy paid the army to take him for a while. One paid the guy a small fee to go away but he kept coming back when broke and although my friend refused to give him anything, he got it through the mother.

Sin sot is IMHO like a assurance to the girls family that the man can take care financially of their daughter. If this guy is a leech, then you are not doing the girl, her family or indeed the guy any favours by trying to hide the fact. It will cause you more financial burden in the future.

Edited September 2, 2013 by Neeranam

[Bluetongue]

It's irrelevant how much the sin sot should be. The step son will know. However, if there is a naive farang around who thinks it's his responsibility to pay it, they'll milk him for all they can.

Let him borrow from the bank.

Good luck with your wife as Thai woman and their sons come always before their husband, especially if he is foreign and unaware of the rules.

Did you pay sinsot when you got married? If you did, then they'll already have no respect for you.

OK so the step son will know how much it should be. A lot less than 300k then as it is his responsibility and he has no prospect of ever accumulating such a sum, nor has he made even the slightest effort, no chance of borrowing from a bank. So it must be less, a lot less and this is just a purely manipulative attempt. In fact perhaps she knows him well enough by now to know that he is a loser and her only chance is to rake it from the farang. I don't think it's my responsibility to pay it, but I did want to know what ballpark the game was being played in. I mean do the stepson and his girl even know what sin sot is supposed to be about, do young Thai's in general or has that part been forgotten. And yes the wife and I have had difficulties about him in general, much easier for me to not discuss him with her and if he does something that pisses me off, let him know directly.

I did pay 100k plus 4bht gold about 60k at the time. It was a spur of the moment thing that I have not regretted. I have never felt any lack of respect from my wife although she is a very strong character or adult family members, they know for instance that they have to ask me before doing something that affects me.The money went on new tyres for the farm utility which we all use, the wedding costs and I guess they would have skimmed the rest. The MIL didn't keep it she's about 90. My wife still has the gold - will she sell it, it still would not realise a third of this amount but its a possibility

Fair enough, that's the same as the sinsot I paid but with 6 baht of gold, when it was only 6,000 baht per baht. However my it was my wife's first marriage and she had no kids. My in laws screwed me as they never gave the cash back. We got the gold and the wedding was taken out of it for 200 people. So they actually did themselves harm as because they never played by the rules, I refused to give them a penny for years.

At least your not a naive mug that are so common around Khon Kaen.

How about lending him some cash and get something in writing that you will get it back immediately after the wedding? If they make a fuss, then say, "fine, get it from someone else".

Regarding getting rid of him - very difficult in the farang/step son relationships I've known. One guy paid the army to take him for a while. One paid the guy a small fee to go away but he kept coming back when broke and although my friend refused to give him anything, he got it through the mother.

Sin sot is IMHO like a assurance to the girls family that the man can take care financially of their daughter. If this guy is a leech, then you are not doing the girl, her family or indeed the guy any favours by trying to hide the fact. It will cause you more financial burden in the future.

No, lending him the money and contracting to get it back after the wedding is too risky. There is not a skerrick of trust in my relationship with him and I wouldn't have a leg to stand on in trying to enforce a written agreement.

The Army, well he's been there, paying him to go away would be just ensuring that he keeps coming back as you say, the problem is the guy has a job, an easy job and he's pretty handy, sometimes active. But he has just never grown up as far as taking any responsibility. I put it down to mother being absent, care being provided by aunties, from the earlier Thai culture/generation, no authority figure present and no-one ever saying no. He's never heard the word. Now if his mother chips him, he just ignores her until she goes away, as a lot of teenagers do, but this guy is 27, man its frustrating.

As you say the girl really should know what she is letting herself in for, I guess if he cant provide the lolly she will eventually look elsewhere. The mother is the proverbial elephant in the room. And it's not just me, other family members complain about him to me saying that they cant bring it up with my wife she gets too upset/angry, I forget the word they use

[harryfrompattaya]

It is time for to leave he will kill you or you will be driven crazy. Leave at once you are wasting your time and money in this relationship. His mother is the problem

Glad I can help and set you on the right path

[Neeranam]

The mother is the proverbial elephant in the room. And it's not just me, other family members complain about him to me saying that they cant bring it up with my wife she gets too upset/angry, I forget the word they use

"Greng Jai" I bet. This is typical Thai codependency.

[benalibina]

The mother is the proverbial elephant in the room. And it's not just me, other family members complain about him to me saying that they cant bring it up with my wife she gets too upset/angry, I forget the word they use

"Greng Jai" I bet. This is typical Thai codependency.

Yes always a valid reason in the eyes of thais. Most likely they just do not care and to keep it smoothly with OP thats the way to keep him on board.

[balo]

You are too much involved with your Thai relatives. They will look at you as the rich farang and will always ask for more money until you stay out of it..

[brabo2180]

I must agree with HarryfromPattaya. Be carefull!!!

Most posters say: 'Not your problem; let them solve it'.

You said: 'The mother (i.e. your wife) is the proverbial elephant in the room'.

You must clear this with your wife and get her to understand and agree to your point-of-view. If not, this will create problems between you and your wife.

I don't know her, but she might start to lie and cheat in order to get the sinsot money for her son.

The stepson works but has no money. You don't mention whether the stepson has problems with drugs or alcohol. If so, be double carefull for violence when he doesn't get his way.

Good luck.

[Bluetongue]

I must agree with HarryfromPattaya. Be carefull!!!

Most posters say: 'Not your problem; let them solve it'.

You said: 'The mother (i.e. your wife) is the proverbial elephant in the room'.

You must clear this with your wife and get her to understand and agree to your point-of-view. If not, this will create problems between you and your wife.

I don't know her, but she might start to lie and cheat in order to get the sinsot money for her son.

The stepson works but has no money. You don't mention whether the stepson has problems with drugs or alcohol. If so, be double carefull for violence when he doesn't get his way.

Good luck.

OK thanks for the good luck. No he doesn't drink or smoke, and I've seen absolutely no evidence of drugs, in fact he does like to keep himself fit, he plays football and before training he will run around the oval on his own, obviously this is a bit much for his teammates. But where does his money go, you'd think over three years of working with no living expenses he would be able to have some stashed away. This attitude that prevails on young blokes here that they cant ever expect to break out or better themselves, so just blow your hard earned on crap is hard for me to get. All Thai males are capable of violence I reckon so I am always careful.

But the better part of your advice is to clear this with the wife. I've found that my wife is very single minded, while she's focused on something else there will be no point having this discussion. Sometimes when important things come up at odd times I am completely unprepared and consequently don't make the argument or get in the winning words, so to speak. Part of the reason for opening this topic was so that I have the necessary argument when the time comes. Right now she's forgotten all about it. I like conflict avoidance too so I am happy to wait for the right moment. She (the stepson's girl) is a pretty girl in the big city she must get a lot of offers, although I can't rely on that.

If I cant win that argument then that would be the time to start worrying about any measures she might take, I think it would be extreme for her to mortgage her land for instance, the favourite is still this idea about him working the land and getting the profits (which is the same as just giving him the money)

[Bluetongue]

The mother is the proverbial elephant in the room. And it's not just me, other family members complain about him to me saying that they cant bring it up with my wife she gets too upset/angry, I forget the word they use

"Greng Jai" I bet. This is typical Thai codependency.

Yes always a valid reason in the eyes of thais. Most likely they just do not care and to keep it smoothly with OP thats the way to keep him on board.

You are too much involved with your Thai relatives. They will look at you as the rich farang and will always ask for more money until you stay out of it..

I do need to step back from the family, in a village situation and a large family sometimes you can feel very alone. Having said that I quietly have said my piece to a few family members and I don't think they give a shit if the stepson doesn't get the money.

[steelepulse]

>>

Most posters say: 'Not your problem; let them solve it'.

You said: 'The mother (i.e. your wife) is the proverbial elephant in the room'.

Have the mother pay it. What, she doesn't have the money and the lazy 27 year old doesn't either? Sounds like there's no marriage ahead unless he hits the lottery.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

You say you would have killed him and now even contemplating paying his sin sot?

Get a hit man.

If you are stupid enouh to pay his sin sot , he will never go away.

So I'm not stupid enough to pay his sin sot, but how do I get him to go away?

That's easy.

Become strict Buddhist, no alcohol on your property ever. No alcohol bought with your money ever.

Sin Sot.

Tell him to get it from his dad.

Edited September 4, 2013 by AnotherOneAmerican

[transam]

Don't think family spongers ever go away unless mum ''loses her rag'' and folk see/hear it. Even yourself could try it.

Ashamed to admit I did it once to wife's lad, not about money but talking to his mother like shit. He never did it again, though he is still a pain in the ass at times.

Oh, and before the greens start, my hands never touched the lad, my voice and eyes did the job.

[Blackandwhite]

Do what you feel is right and no more than you can afford. If your happy with what you give " don't think to much "