Probably one of the greatest sentences ever written:-

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness"

From the American declaration of independence.

How come the politicians back then were so good and the present day ones are so bad?

Education. The school system went down hill from there.

Doesn't it occur to most that we are, first and foremost, human beings? That we are not just from a particular country but that the whole world is ours? Any generalization that can be made of any nationality can be applied to any other nationality. Why the big identification with the place, or country, of your birth. People are so much more than that. It's not so diffficult to step out of the stereotypical attitudes.

Well, I think that if one was to dig deep into Amercian philosophy you would find just that. For the idea behind the country, regardless of history, is life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. What person in any country doesn't work for just these things. So, if you believe in these freedoms than you are an American, philosophically at least. I mean Locke pretty much wrote down the idea of America and in his view country didn't matter either, for the individual had a contract with a government that could under the right circumstances be ignored. The counrty is just for protection of property, ones identity must be found by ones own self.

There's no doubt that America was founded on virtuous and wise precepts. Life, liberty and happiness are ideals that exist around the globe and are not by any means unique to the American people. Nor were these ideals founded by Americans. They're inherent in every human on the planet. Always have been and always will be. Nationalistic pride can easily become twisted into conceit and cockiness. That's an aspect of nationalism that turns anybody off.

Doesn't it occur to most that we are, first and foremost, human beings? That we are not just from a particular country but that the whole world is ours? Any generalization that can be made of any nationality can be applied to any other nationality. Why the big identification with the place, or country, of your birth. People are so much more than that. It's not so diffficult to step out of the stereotypical attitudes.

Well, I think that if one was to dig deep into Amercian philosophy you would find just that. For the idea behind the country, regardless of history, is life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. What person in any country doesn't work for just these things. So, if you believe in these freedoms than you are an American, philosophically at least. I mean Locke pretty much wrote down the idea of America and in his view country didn't matter either, for the individual had a contract with a government that could under the right circumstances be ignored. The counrty is just for protection of property, ones identity must be found by ones own self.

There's no doubt that America was founded on virtuous and wise precepts. Life, liberty and happiness are ideals that exist around the globe and are not by any means unique to the American people. Nor were these ideals founded by Americans. They're inherent in every human on the planet. Always have been and always will be. Nationalistic pride can easily become twisted into conceit and cockiness. That's an aspect of nationalism that turns anybody off.

It is the we are better than you attitude that puts anybody off. I always say though that a true patriot will criticize rather than praise their country.

Doesn't it occur to most that we are, first and foremost, human beings? That we are not just from a particular country but that the whole world is ours? Any generalization that can be made of any nationality can be applied to any other nationality. Why the big identification with the place, or country, of your birth. People are so much more than that. It's not so diffficult to step out of the stereotypical attitudes.

Well, I think that if one was to dig deep into Amercian philosophy you would find just that. For the idea behind the country, regardless of history, is life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. What person in any country doesn't work for just these things. So, if you believe in these freedoms than you are an American, philosophically at least. I mean Locke pretty much wrote down the idea of America and in his view country didn't matter either, for the individual had a contract with a government that could under the right circumstances be ignored. The counrty is just for protection of property, ones identity must be found by ones own self.

There's no doubt that America was founded on virtuous and wise precepts. Life, liberty and happiness are ideals that exist around the globe and are not by any means unique to the American people. Nor were these ideals founded by Americans. They're inherent in every human on the planet. Always have been and always will be. Nationalistic pride can easily become twisted into conceit and cockiness. That's an aspect of nationalism that turns anybody off.

It is the we are better than you attitude that puts anybody off. I always say though that a true patriot will criticize rather than praise their country.

A better than thou attitude is always a turn off; be it due to nationalistic pride or any othe ego inflating pride. Pride can be distorted as anything else can. Humbleness is less practised. For myself I choose to move beyond nationalism. Why limit yourself?

What is it about nationalities anyway? I forget who is credited with this quote, and I'll paraphrase, too, but it was said that the only reason anyone is patriotic to their country is because that's where they were born. No shit!

Being a foreigner most of my life it struck me early in life that nationalistic attitudes are so much <deleted>. Who the <deleted> cares. If you can't relate to people as individuals you're lost.

Too true.

America is like that new girl at school who is not only the richest and smartest , but also super hottest chick there.

And you know how the other students will act toward her..... Especially the other girls .

Mmmmm, another jelousy accusation - its self grandisement and belief that the USA is a hegemony by some Americans that leads to nastiness from others - no one likes to be told they are inferior simple because they are smaller geographically or economically.

If I said Thais were inferior because on average they are poorer than me and their economy doesn't compare to my country's, how many flames per hour could I reach? Would we accuse the Thais of being jelous because they did not believe they were inferior or argued back against the slight?

Most Americans I have met and know do not have this superioroty complex, but I only meet those that have travelled and know first hand that we are all people and Nationality IS just an accident of birth. I'm no better than you because of your country, I may be better at something than you, but I would not proclaiom that that made me superior.

Probably one of the greatest sentences ever written:-

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness"

From the American declaration of independence.

How come the politicians back then were so good and the present day ones are so bad?

Maybe it was the slaves they owned.

I think that the present day America, for all it's faults, upholds those values esposed in the declaration of independence much better than the slave owners who founded it.

cv

But I'll have to say that us New Yorkers are to the U.S.A, what the U.S.A. is to the world......

Just what exactly does this mean?

It means that the world stereotypes all Americans as loud, rude and annoying, but in the US, we think of New Yorkers this way.

If you don't like Americans, you will HATE New Yorkers and many Americans do too.

But I'll have to say that us New Yorkers are to the U.S.A, what the U.S.A. is to the world......

Just what exactly does this mean?

It means that the world stereotypes all Americans as loud, rude and annoying, but in the US, we think of New Yorkers this way.

If you don't like Americans, you will HATE New Yorkers and many Americans do too.

I never found New Yorkers to be that bad.They were great to deal with in business, because they didn't piss about being too nice like the California crowd.

Probably one of the greatest sentences ever written:-

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness"

From the American declaration of independence.

How come the politicians back then were so good and the present day ones are so bad?

Maybe it was the slaves they owned.

I think that the present day America, for all it's faults, upholds those values esposed in the declaration of independence much better than the slave owners who founded it.

cv

True, but they were a product of there time.

Even the British who were a force for the abolition of slavery didn't put it into law until 1807 with a further law passed in 1833.

You can't judge people from the past with present day morals.

No problem with Septics per say they get a good bashing like every nationality should.

Only gripe - most yanks need to travel more outside their own borders I think that would change alot of their views.

Anyways I'm happy to say Boon/UG are great examples to follow. (nice lads who I'd share a few pints with any day)

Anyways I'm happy to say Boon/UG are great examples to follow. (nice lads who I'd share a few pints with any day)

Boon and I think that britmaverick is right up there with Winston Churchill and Tony Blair!

Only gripe - most yanks need to travel more outside their own borders I think that would change alot of their views.

One thing you are not taking into account is that if you are in the UK or Europe you can take a boat trip or train/car to another country cheaply and quickly. Our choices are Canada and Mexico, any place else is a large chunk of change plus the US is so vast with such variety (both scenic and cultural) that many people do travel for holiday to different regions - mountains, snow, beaches, big cities and small towns.

It's very easy for one to say they've been all over Europe if they are from the UK or France or .... If you are from a small town it is quite common for the people there to live in their own microcosm whether it is the US, UK or elsewhere. Because that is what they know and are quite comfortable with just that.

Also, once an American does have the opportunity and gets a taste of the other parts of the world they become more enthusiastic and curious about it and want to taste more, that's me and many of my friends back home.

Ah, they just still sore from losing the Civil War...

Actually, if you've studied the American Civil war you will know that the Rebs made a laughing stock out of the Yankees for the first three years. They didn't lose a battle and produced the finest generals of the war.

Yes, I've studied the American Civil war, as most American students have - I grant what you said is true, suffice to say, they lost all the same - The south just did not have the industrial complex or the population - not to mention the economic means to win in the long run -dispite help from your Continentials....

Last time I checked , this flag wasn't not flying over washington, right?

But thank the Founding Fathers that it did not remain this one......

Ah, they just still sore from losing the Civil War...

Actually, if you've studied the American Civil war you will know that the Rebs made a laughing stock out of the Yankees for the first three years. They didn't lose a battle and produced the finest generals of the war.

Yes, I've studied the American Civil war, as most American students have - I grant what you said is true, suffice to say, they lost all the same - The south just did not have the industrial complex or the population - not to mention the economic means to win in the long run -dispite help from your Continentials....

Last time I checked , this flag wasn't not flying over washington, right?

But thank the Founding Fathers that it did not remain this one......

Don't thank the founding fathers, thank these guys ..

America is like that new girl at school who is not only the richest and smartest , but also super hottest chick there.

And you know how the other students will act toward her..... Especially the other girls .

Mmmmm, another jelousy accusation - its self grandisement and belief that the USA is a hegemony by some Americans that leads to nastiness from others - no one likes to be told they are inferior simple because they are smaller geographically or economically.

If I said Thais were inferior because on average they are poorer than me and their economy doesn't compare to my country's, how many flames per hour could I reach? Would we accuse the Thais of being jelous because they did not believe they were inferior or argued back against the slight?

Most Americans I have met and know do not have this superioroty complex, but I only meet those that have travelled and know first hand that we are all people and Nationality IS just an accident of birth. I'm no better than you because of your country, I may be better at something than you, but I would not proclaiom that that made me superior.

I think you misunderstood the expample I gave, Wolf5370. Not accusations of Jealousy, even though that would of course be a part of the overall reaction to any individual or institution at the top of any major hierarchy. The truth of the matter is that the U.S.A is the lone superpower in the world right now for the forseeable future. And that in it self would be the focus of alot of animosity, even without the American Culture Hedgemony Crusade thingy. Yes, I have to admit, most Americans are taught and believe that we do live in the greatest country on Earth, that we are the best, and that the world should be our example and do what we say, or else!

Of course, if I was not American, like most of the people on the forum, I could very well understand why this would not be agreeable, and would do my best to at least "take the piss" out of those bloody "Yank septic gringo infidels", ( and remind the Americans what happened to The Roman, Spanish, and of course, the British Empire.... ) and at worse, others may go the next step and fly planes into buildings....

But suffice to say, I do predict that in 22nd century, people will be speaking English in an American derived dialect.....

Anyways I'm happy to say Boon/UG are great examples to follow. (nice lads who I'd share a few pints with any day)

Boon and I think that britmaverick is right up there with Winston Churchill and Tony Blair!

Actually, I think Britmaverick is right up there with Benny Hill and Doctor Who in my book!

But thank the Founding Fathers that it did not remain this one......

Actually, the Union flag does fly over some US territory. It is part of a State flag.

Do you know which one?

But I'll have to say that us New Yorkers are to the U.S.A, what the U.S.A. is to the world......

Just what exactly does this mean?

It means that the world stereotypes all Americans as loud, rude and annoying, but in the US, we think of New Yorkers this way.

If you don't like Americans, you will HATE New Yorkers and many Americans do too.

Americans secretly love us, don't belive the hype!

Only gripe - most yanks need to travel more outside their own borders I think that would change alot of their views.

One thing you are not taking into account is that if you are in the UK or Europe you can take a boat trip or train/car to another country cheaply and quickly. Our choices are Canada and Mexico, any place else is a large chunk of change plus the US is so vast with such variety (both scenic and cultural) that many people do travel for holiday to different regions - mountains, snow, beaches, big cities and small towns.

It's very easy for one to say they've been all over Europe if they are from the UK or France or .... If you are from a small town it is quite common for the people there to live in their own microcosm whether it is the US, UK or elsewhere. Because that is what they know and are quite comfortable with just that.

Also, once an American does have the opportunity and gets a taste of the other parts of the world they become more enthusiastic and curious about it and want to taste more, that's me and many of my friends back home.

That dosn't wash for Kiwis and Aussies.If anything, travel is more expensive for us, but we do it.

americans are all right i suppose , no better or worse than any other nationality , even though they may think otherwise.

good fun to be with in their own country , great and generous hosts , always telling you their life story at great length whether you have asked them or not.

can be intolerable when removed from their natural environment though , especially when in groups of more than one. noticably lacking in humour and empathy , tend to talk a lot about 10 litre V10 engines and goals and life focus

the females of the species are especially adept at emasculating their menfolk , often mercilessly reducing them to jibbering balding wrecks dependant on loony psychiatrists and lying lawyers to sort out their woes.

they make good jeans , terrible cars , and inedible food.

and why do they have to talk so fukcing loud everywhere they go.

Ah, they just still sore from losing the Civil War...

Actually, if you've studied the American Civil war you will know that the Rebs made a laughing stock out of the Yankees for the first three years. They didn't lose a battle and produced the finest generals of the war.

Yes, I've studied the American Civil war, as most American students have - I grant what you said is true, suffice to say, they lost all the same - The south just did not have the industrial complex or the population - not to mention the economic means to win in the long run -dispite help from your Continentials....

Last time I checked , this flag wasn't not flying over washington, right?

But thank the Founding Fathers that it did not remain this one......

Don't thank the founding fathers, thank these guys ..

Ouch!

I forgot about that.......

But thank the Founding Fathers that it did not remain this one......

Actually, the Union flag does fly over some US territory. It is part of a State flag.

Do you know which one?

Wait one momment, while I do a google search....

You mean this one?

If I didn't know any better, I would have thought that those Hawaiians wanted to be a part of the great British Commonwealth!

Good thing those American Sugar Comapnies managed to pursuade them otherwise....

TBB, they all hate us because they are all jealous of us!

I don't know if the above was meant to be ironic (I thought irony was our forte) but it, perhaps unintentionally, crystallises exactly why many people do dislike Americans.

If we're going to have porn banners in Bedlam would it be possible to have a few big todgers for us gayboys?

And straight girls

TBB, they all hate us because they are all jealous of us!

I don't know if the above was meant to be ironic (I thought irony was our forte) but it, perhaps unintentionally, crystallises exactly why many people do dislike Americans.

That's for sure...

TBB, they all hate us because they are all jealous of us!

I don't know if the above was meant to be ironic (I thought irony was our forte) but it, perhaps unintentionally, crystallises exactly why many people do dislike Americans.

That's for sure...

I think you may have misunderstood me. I wasn't saying that people dislike Americans because they're jealous of them. I was saying that people dislike Americans because of the braggarts in their midst.

I know what Americans are like..................

.........I watch them every day on the Jerry Springer Show.

Yes, that would be the white trash component, the main daytime demographic, welfare mothers and inmates,

The rest of us have jobs, we prefer true drama like the Simpsons and Idol,

TBB, they all hate us because they are all jealous of us!

I don't know if the above was meant to be ironic (I thought irony was our forte) but it, perhaps unintentionally, crystallises exactly why many people do dislike Americans.

That's for sure...

I think you may have misunderstood me. I wasn't saying that people dislike Americans because they're jealous of them. I was saying that people dislike Americans because of the braggarts in their midst.

I can asure you that Trip was just joking.

I know what Americans are like..................

.........I watch them every day on the Jerry Springer Show.

Yes, that would be the white trash component, the main daytime demographic, welfare mothers and inmates,

The rest of us have jobs, we prefer true drama like the Simpsons and Idol,

Cobra, you're not helping.

If we're going to have porn banners in Bedlam would it be possible to have a few big todgers for us gayboys?

And straight girls

How 'bout we get it removed. i am going to get in trouble with my wife!

Only gripe - most yanks need to travel more outside their own borders I think that would change alot of their views.

One thing you are not taking into account is that if you are in the UK or Europe you can take a boat trip or train/car to another country cheaply and quickly. Our choices are Canada and Mexico, any place else is a large chunk of change plus the US is so vast with such variety (both scenic and cultural) that many people do travel for holiday to different regions - mountains, snow, beaches, big cities and small towns.

It's very easy for one to say they've been all over Europe if they are from the UK or France or .... If you are from a small town it is quite common for the people there to live in their own microcosm whether it is the US, UK or elsewhere. Because that is what they know and are quite comfortable with just that.

Also, once an American does have the opportunity and gets a taste of the other parts of the world they become more enthusiastic and curious about it and want to taste more, that's me and many of my friends back home.

That dosn't wash for Kiwis and Aussies.If anything, travel is more expensive for us, but we do it.

What's your cost of living though?