Probably one of the greatest sentences ever written:-

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness"

From the American declaration of independence.

How come the politicians back then were so good and the present day ones are so bad?

Maybe it was the slaves they owned.

I think that the present day America, for all it's faults, upholds those values esposed in the declaration of independence much better than the slave owners who founded it.

cv

True, but they were a product of there time.

Even the British who were a force for the abolition of slavery didn't put it into law until 1807 with a further law passed in 1833.

You can't judge people from the past with present day morals.

Very true. We have under gone so much change so quickly that it's hard for us to separate our present form our past.

and why do they have to talk so fukcing loud everywhere they go.

this is a damned good question and one very close to my heart???

during my time travelling i met plenty of yanks that were good friends and plenty that were fking <deleted>... but never the less all of em seemed to want every fker within a 1km area to hear the conversation....

"you're always fking shouting - whats the matter with you? im sat right here" i would say

"whadya expect? im an American!" he would reply

this was my mates response every time i asked him... maybe im just one of those nice guys that always falls in with the wrong crowd

and why do they have to talk so fukcing loud everywhere they go.

this is a damned good question and one very close to my heart???

during my time travelling i met plenty of yanks that were good friends and plenty that were fking <deleted>... but never the less all of em seemed to want every fker within a 1km area to hear the conversation....

"you're always fking shouting - whats the matter with you? im sat right here" i would say

"whadya expect? im an American!" he would reply

this was my mates response every time i asked him... maybe im just one of those nice guys that always falls in with the wrong crowd

American culture is heavy on the individual and proving yourself. Speaking loud came out of this, like a competition if you will. As an American you must stand out and speaking softly isn't a good way to do that.

I should also add that this comes out of our political traditions. People would go from town to town and speak to huge crowds and not only had to present a reasonablt platfotm but also appear to be one of the common man. So, speaking loud and with authority were traits that got people elected. We liked these people like Teddy Roosevelt and so those who wished to be successful would take on these traits and I think it stick culturally.

and why do they have to talk so fukcing loud everywhere they go.

What! I can't hear you! Speak up a little!!!

and why do they have to talk so fukcing loud everywhere they go.

this is a damned good question and one very close to my heart???

during my time travelling i met plenty of yanks that were good friends and plenty that were fking <deleted>... but never the less all of em seemed to want every fker within a 1km area to hear the conversation....

"you're always fking shouting - whats the matter with you? im sat right here" i would say

"whadya expect? im an American!" he would reply

this was my mates response every time i asked him... maybe im just one of those nice guys that always falls in with the wrong crowd

American culture is heavy on the individual and proving yourself. Speaking loud came out of this, like a competition if you will. As an American you must stand out and speaking softly isn't a good way to do that.

pray tell - what american culture is heavy on an individual..?

is not any culture heavy on an individual thats just trying to get on???

Only gripe - most yanks need to travel more outside their own borders I think that would change alot of their views.

One thing you are not taking into account is that if you are in the UK or Europe you can take a boat trip or train/car to another country cheaply and quickly. Our choices are Canada and Mexico, any place else is a large chunk of change plus the US is so vast with such variety (both scenic and cultural) that many people do travel for holiday to different regions - mountains, snow, beaches, big cities and small towns.

It's very easy for one to say they've been all over Europe if they are from the UK or France or .... If you are from a small town it is quite common for the people there to live in their own microcosm whether it is the US, UK or elsewhere. Because that is what they know and are quite comfortable with just that.

Also, once an American does have the opportunity and gets a taste of the other parts of the world they become more enthusiastic and curious about it and want to taste more, that's me and many of my friends back home.

That dosn't wash for Kiwis and Aussies.If anything, travel is more expensive for us, but we do it.

What's your cost of living though?

Depends on where you are living, but on an average I would say that the yank is much better off.

and why do they have to talk so fukcing loud everywhere they go.

this is a damned good question and one very close to my heart???

during my time travelling i met plenty of yanks that were good friends and plenty that were fking <deleted>... but never the less all of em seemed to want every fker within a 1km area to hear the conversation....

"you're always fking shouting - whats the matter with you? im sat right here" i would say

"whadya expect? im an American!" he would reply

this was my mates response every time i asked him... maybe im just one of those nice guys that always falls in with the wrong crowd

American culture is heavy on the individual and proving yourself. Speaking loud came out of this, like a competition if you will. As an American you must stand out and speaking softly isn't a good way to do that.

I should also add that this comes out of our political traditions. People would go from town to town and speak to huge crowds and not only had to present a reasonablt platfotm but also appear to be one of the common man. So, speaking loud and with authority were traits that got people elected. We liked these people like Teddy Roosevelt and so those who wished to be successful would take on these traits and I think it stick culturally.

Sorry I added this after you posted. Might help explain a little more.

and why do they have to talk so fukcing loud everywhere they go.

this is a damned good question and one very close to my heart???

during my time travelling i met plenty of yanks that were good friends and plenty that were fking <deleted>... but never the less all of em seemed to want every fker within a 1km area to hear the conversation....

"you're always fking shouting - whats the matter with you? im sat right here" i would say

"whadya expect? im an American!" he would reply

this was my mates response every time i asked him... maybe im just one of those nice guys that always falls in with the wrong crowd

American culture is heavy on the individual and proving yourself. Speaking loud came out of this, like a competition if you will. As an American you must stand out and speaking softly isn't a good way to do that.

pray tell - what american culture is heavy on an individual..?

is not any culture heavy on an individual thats just trying to get on???

I will say this way. Americans place an importance on being an individual and having to prove yourself to others within the culture. So, not heavy on an individual, but heavy on being an individual.

Only gripe - most yanks need to travel more outside their own borders I think that would change alot of their views.

One thing you are not taking into account is that if you are in the UK or Europe you can take a boat trip or train/car to another country cheaply and quickly. Our choices are Canada and Mexico, any place else is a large chunk of change plus the US is so vast with such variety (both scenic and cultural) that many people do travel for holiday to different regions - mountains, snow, beaches, big cities and small towns.

It's very easy for one to say they've been all over Europe if they are from the UK or France or .... If you are from a small town it is quite common for the people there to live in their own microcosm whether it is the US, UK or elsewhere. Because that is what they know and are quite comfortable with just that.

Also, once an American does have the opportunity and gets a taste of the other parts of the world they become more enthusiastic and curious about it and want to taste more, that's me and many of my friends back home.

That dosn't wash for Kiwis and Aussies.If anything, travel is more expensive for us, but we do it.

What's your cost of living though?

Depends on where you are living, but on an average I would say that the yank is much better off.

Man, I would have to take my piece and hit up a few gas stations before I could afford a ticket to Thailand. Yankee money only works for you when you get to where you're going.

ok

i guess that explains the raised voices - in england if theres a guy thats always raising his game to be individual we would say he was acting the goat, being an ass or whatever

but theres definate differences between guys this side of the pond and your side - from what youre saying you need to act up a bit to become apart from the rest

over here i would say that most guys would try to quite down a bit if they were out to impress -

however when its the just the lads then yes being loud is the norm but only if everyone is just as loud - being outspoken or over confident on your own here seems to always end in tears - usualy yours

Man, I would have to take my piece and hit up a few gas stations before I could afford a ticket to Thailand. Yankee money only works for you when you get to where you're going.

GLOBAL INCOME PER CAPITA - PUBLISHED 2005

finfacts

ok

i guess that explains the raised voices - in england if theres a guy thats always raising his game to be individual we would say he was acting the goat, being an ass or whatever

but theres definate differences between guys this side of the pond and your side - from what youre saying you need to act up a bit to become apart from the rest

over here i would say that most guys would try to quite down a bit if they were out to impress -

however when its the just the lads then yes being loud is the norm but only if everyone is just as loud - being outspoken or over confident on your own here seems to always end in tears - usualy yours

It's the exact opposite over here. When you are with your close friends, unless they are just unusually macho, you can be quite. When you are with other people, that you don't know so well, or work with or are in competition with and you don't speak up then people view you as a wallflower and that means you lack self-confidence. This means that you are weak.

Now depending on where you grew up and other cultural influences you will find that some people are more like this and others not so much. So, it's in degrees.

Man, I would have to take my piece and hit up a few gas stations before I could afford a ticket to Thailand. Yankee money only works for you when you get to where you're going.

GLOBAL INCOME PER CAPITA - PUBLISHED 2005

finfacts

That's nice and all, but it doesn't mean a thing. $45,000 a year is not much when you take out rent/house payments, bills, car payments, car insurance, health insurance, food, gas, income taxes (federal), taxes for the state like property taxes.

Some of these are once a year, some once a month, others once a week. I had a job once that paid me $35,000 per year. No way in hel_l I could have left the country. Even for a few weeks. I would have lost my job, I would have gotten behind in all my payments and so forth.

Most Americans save for a very long time to take a trip. They always have to wait untill the build up enough off time from their jobs so that they don't lose their jobs. Most companies given their employees a week of paid vacation for each year worked. Not alot of time to spend in Thailand. Which is another reason why American don't leave the counrty often. If you only have a week's vacation how far can you get? From where I am at to Thailand I would lose a whole day!

Yes, if a yank wants to travel they can make it happen, but not over night, and it won't be often. The ones that leave are either with money and/or great credit, in the armed services, or the gave up a lot to move about the globe, like backpackers.

As an American, I probably speak too loudly because

I AM BLOODY NEARLY DEAF.

Too much rock and roll in my youth.

This is probably typical.

I even recall the night I lost half my hearing, at a Dead Kennedy's concert at the Mubahay Gardens club in San Francisco.

I guess though that everybody becomes American when they talk on a CELL PHONE.

As an American, I probably speak too loud because

I AM BLOODY NEARLY DEAF.

Too much rock and roll in my youth.

This is probably typical.

I even recall the night I lost half my hearing, at a Dead Kennedy's concert at the Mubahay Gardens club in San Francisco.

I guess though that everybody becomes American when they talk on a CELL PHONE.

I fought the law and I won!

Rock!

Man, I would have to take my piece and hit up a few gas stations before I could afford a ticket to Thailand. Yankee money only works for you when you get to where you're going.

GLOBAL INCOME PER CAPITA - PUBLISHED 2005

finfacts

That's nice and all, but it doesn't mean a thing. $45,000 a year is not much when you take out rent/house payments, bills, car payments, car insurance, health insurance, food, gas, income taxes (federal), taxes for the state like property taxes.

Some of these are once a year, some once a month, others once a week. I had a job once that paid me $35,000 per year. No way in hel_l I could have left the country. Even for a few weeks. I would have lost my job, I would have gotten behind in all my payments and so forth.

Most Americans save for a very long time to take a trip. They always have to wait untill the build up enough off time from their jobs so that they don't lose their jobs. Most companies given their employees a week of paid vacation for each year worked. Not alot of time to spend in Thailand. Which is another reason why American don't leave the counrty often. If you only have a week's vacation how far can you get? From where I am at to Thailand I would lose a whole day!

Yes, if a yank wants to travel they can make it happen, but not over night, and it won't be often. The ones that leave are either with money and/or great credit, in the armed services, or the gave up a lot to move about the globe, like backpackers.

USA (2004)Income 41400

NZ (2004) 20310

huge difference.

travelling comes down to the attitude of the individual.If you really want it you will find a way. losing a whole day is nothing.Fly anywhere from NZ and see how much time you lose.

Most young Kiwis quit their jobs and go travelling when they are young.Again it's an attitude thing.What they lose in salary, they make up in experience.

If you want your house freehold at a young age, a pickett fence and 2.5 kids, then you are likely not to travel at all.Depends on what you have as a prioity and how much you want to see the world.

Most young Kiwis quit their jobs and go travelling when they are young.Again it's an attitude thing.What they lose in salary, they make up in experience.

If you want your house freehold at a young age, a pickett fence and 2.5 kids, then you are likely not to travel at all.Depends on what you have as a prioity and how much you want to see the world.

aint no different in UK - but what if you wanna do it all?

sorry off topic - hel_l im gonna start another thread on this - but in what forum? travel, general ?

Yes, if a yank wants to travel they can make it happen, but not over night, and it won't be often. The ones that leave are either with money and/or great credit, in the armed services, or the gave up a lot to move about the globe, like backpackers.

Not really.

There's loads of Yanks who work in the Oil & Gas Industry and other fields that require travel back and forth outside the country.

Been doing it myself for almost 30 years and it's starting to suck...

almost 30 years

man you tire easily

I have run into some very loud Germans and Scandis too. I think one of the reasons Americans are loud is because they are constantly shouting over their loud television or loud stereo Hmmm...yeah I guess we are loud.

I think a portion of arrogant Americans may just be Americans who are enthusiastic and who have a cando attitude. Mine is the last generation to hold this attitude as a belief that Americans cando. Subsequent American generations have been taught to see our limitations and to believe it is our fault the world is doomed. Enthusiasm not always equal to arrogance.

Also I don't know if arrogance can be used to describe loudmouthed ignoramuses because we have plenty of those. My cousin's mother-in-law was planning a trip to Russia about eight years ago and she let us all know she'd be wearing her pull over sweater with the American flag emblazoned on the front. She was going to show the Russians how great America is and how right we were when it came to communism. I tried to explain but she already knew too much so there wasn't any more room in her noggin for anything I had to say. She has been a jackass for as long as I have known her.

Yes, if a yank wants to travel they can make it happen, but not over night, and it won't be often. The ones that leave are either with money and/or great credit, in the armed services, or the gave up a lot to move about the globe, like backpackers.

Not really.

There's loads of Yanks who work in the Oil & Gas Industry and other fields that require travel back and forth outside the country.

Been doing it myself for almost 30 years and it's starting to suck...

I am middle class at best (but payed off a mortgage) but my passports have been full of stamps from all over the world for the last 20 years. My secret is I have always avoided "real jobs" and went for contract jobs instead, leaving time for travel. If travel is a high priority, it is possible. I think most Americans highest priority is the bigger house, more cars, etc.

The attitude of Americans when O/S is enough of a concern that the US Govt has bought out a guide telling them how to act.

Some hints are;

Not to speak loud and brashly

Not to try and push their religion down others throats

Not to sound off about the US being number one

The US Govt is concerned about the image that Americans have overseas as bo9th ex pat and tourist.

TBB, they all hate us because they are all jealous of us!

I don't know if the above was meant to be ironic (I thought irony was our forte) but it, perhaps unintentionally, crystallises exactly why many people do dislike Americans.

That's for sure...

I think you may have misunderstood me. I wasn't saying that people dislike Americans because they're jealous of them. I was saying that people dislike Americans because of the braggarts in their midst.

How about a little respect for other people's intelligence? Knowing Boon, I'm sure that he got it the first time.

I know that I did.

The attitude of Americans when O/S is enough of a concern that the US Govt has bought out a guide telling them how to act.

Some hints are;

Not to speak loud and brashly

Not to try and push their religion down others throats

Not to sound off about the US being number one

The US Govt is concerned about the image that Americans have overseas as bo9th ex pat and tourist.

The Australian Government should put out a guide telling it's citizens not to get drunk and rip up Kuta Beach.

Maybe something about tipping more than a dime in other countries as well.

I haven't got a problems with Americans pers se.

I have a problem with the patriotic ones waving their flag in my face. But then, i have a problem with any flagwaver from any place. Sorry, got no time for any sort of nationalism or patriotism, never understood the concept of it.

What i have a serious problem with is American foreign policy since America's appearance as a player on the world stage. Therefore i have a more than serious problem with anyone who supports present wars, be they American or from anywhere else.

What disgusts me about present day America can be found here:

http://www.newamericancentury.org/

Fortunately though there's lotsa Yanks who feel no different than me.

Fortunately though there's lotsa Yanks who feel no different than me.

lotsa Yanks who feel no different than me.

Yep, and we feel the same way as you about those "bad" Yanks.

The US is a very divided country, especially since Bush got "elected".

That dosn't wash for Kiwis and Aussies.If anything, travel is more expensive for us, but we do it.

Statistics for Americans travelling overseas for 2004 is 61,776,000 an increase of 10% from the previous year and 2005 will be more. Population of Australia, 20,641,867 so even if every single Aussie traveled abroad it would be 1/3 of the number of Americans. I know, percentage will tell it all but don't have those numbers "yet".

Source: Office of Travel and Tourism Industries.

Got the numbers now: "Australian overseas travel was recorded at 4.76 million in the year ended February 2006"

That would put the percentages pretty close to equal at around 20-23%.

That dosn't wash for Kiwis and Aussies.If anything, travel is more expensive for us, but we do it.

Statistics for Americans travelling overseas for 2004 is 61,776,000 an increase of 10% from the previous year and 2005 will be more. Population of Australia, 20,641,867 so even if every single Aussie traveled abroad it would be 1/3 of the number of Americans. I know, percentage will tell it all but don't have those numbers "yet".

Source: Office of Travel and Tourism Industries.

I wonder how many of those consist of Americans that live next to the Canadian border nipping across every week-end to do some shopping?

That dosn't wash for Kiwis and Aussies.If anything, travel is more expensive for us, but we do it.

Statistics for Americans travelling overseas for 2004 is 61,776,000 an increase of 10% from the previous year and 2005 will be more. Population of Australia, 20,641,867 so even if every single Aussie traveled abroad it would be 1/3 of the number of Americans. I know, percentage will tell it all but don't have those numbers "yet".

Source: Office of Travel and Tourism Industries.

I wonder how many of those consist of Americans that live next to the Canadian border nipping across every week-end to do some shopping?

That is "overseas" and does not include Canada and Mexico, unless an ocean has been added the last time I was back there.

That dosn't wash for Kiwis and Aussies.If anything, travel is more expensive for us, but we do it.

Statistics for Americans travelling overseas for 2004 is 61,776,000 an increase of 10% from the previous year and 2005 will be more. Population of Australia, 20,641,867 so even if every single Aussie traveled abroad it would be 1/3 of the number of Americans. I know, percentage will tell it all but don't have those numbers "yet".

Source: Office of Travel and Tourism Industries.

I wonder how many of those consist of Americans that live next to the Canadian border nipping across every week-end to do some shopping?

61 million? where did they all go. Poland? Popping over to Catalina dosn't count.

That is "overseas" and does not include Canada and Mexico, unless an ocean has been added the last time I was back there.

Sorry, am a Limey. Overseas is synonymous with going to another country.