Humane Killer

[murni]

We moved from England Two & a half years ago & brought our Cairn Terrier with us.

Soon after we arrived she developed skin problems, we have consulted 4 vets here in Chiang Mai & we have tried EVERYTHING. Her life is pure misery & it's time to let her go. None of the vets up here will put her to sleep & we are desperate, does anyone know of a humane way that we can

end her suffering?

Thanks in advance

[mitmig]

Sorry, but I don't have an answer to your question but I feel very sorry for you and your poor dog!

I fear the day one of my dogs gets sick and needs to be put to sleep! Doesn't the vet sell you the medicine to put him down, so you can do it yourself? I hope you will find a solution! Good luck.

We took our two JRT's over here 2 years ago and the first year they also developed skinproblems: scratching al day (no ticks, fleas or mange), bold spots in the coat, rashes etc. etc. I was sad seeing them scratching all day and I was helpless, even the vets didn't know what to do, except give antiobiotics! I thought maybe it was a foodallergie because we were giving them kibble. I started to feed them raw meat and bones and since that time no more skinproblems!!! O, and no more treats that have a strange color, you know those dogcookies in yellow, red and green or Pedigree or cheap Tesco kibble!!!

[Farma]

The change in diet may be a problem. One dog i knew had been brought up on a diet of local food, fried rice etc.

The owners left and the dog transferred to some new arrivals. They spent a fortune feeding it imported dog foods and it developed a rash, lack of energy etc.

It was suggested they feed it local foods again, not long afterwards the dog returned back to it's usual happy self and the rash dissappeared.

[RamdomChances]

A good whack on the top of the head with a hammer, is probably the most humane, unless you have the correct drugs. Be carful not to hit it to softly as you really need to kill it in one go.

[sbk]

Have you tried every option to solve the problem? Are you sure it isn't food allergies? Our dog developed an allergy to dry dog food after eating it for some years. We eliminated the dry dog food and substituted a metal bowl (instead of plastic per our vets instructions) and this solved the problem, along with cortisone creams to eliminate the itching.

If you are still intent on putting your dog down, may I suggest finding a farang vet who would be willing to do it? Alot of the dog rescue organizations have farangs working for them.

[Nienke]

Hi Murni

What do you feed her? Kibble, home-made or raw feeding?

Is it possible that your dog is allergic to the grains or the (chemical) additives in the food or is the food lacking in proteins, vitamins minerals etc.?

Many dogs are allergic to (too much) grains. This is not surprising as dogs are NOT grain eaters, they are carnivores. (isn't it that there was a huge problem with mad cow disease in Europe after they had receive meat products through their food for certain periods of time? Cows are herbivores, not omnivores nor carnivores)

Many commercial dogfoods are full of chemical colorings flavors preservatives (such as etoxiquin, some heavy poison which is prohibited in human food, BHA and BHT), etc.

The cheaper the dogfood the less the quality. You just can't have real good dogfood for a cheap price, as good ingredients cost money. However, waste products (feather, beaks, fur, tissue material, etc) do give protein too, and so does mais, soya and other cereal. This together gives the CRUDE PROTEIN as is written on each dog- or cat food bag. The percentage crude protein, as given on the bag, certainly isn't a lie, but that does not mean it will be bio-available to the animal. And if the animal is not able to take up all these proteins, on the long or short term (depending on the individual) all sorts of health problems will develop.

Next to this, due to the heating process (in order to make the kibble or canned food) many of the goodies change their chemical composition, disappear completely. All enzymes, so much neede for a proper digestion, are killed by this heating process. In order to fulfill he standards, given by an American foundation or something, later chemically made vitamins and minerals are added to the food. Of course, they are not as good for the animal than the natural ones.

With the oils the same story: good oils cost money. Often used oils, collected from restaurants etc, are used to put in dog and cat foods.

Since 2001 I feed my dogs the raw food diet with splendid results. (customers dogs are fed the commercial dog food brand: Hill's Science Diet, unless requesed differently). Since I feed raw to my dogs, the seizures my my little boxer experienced stopped. A little Westi, from a veterinary friend in Holland, that suffered severe epileptic attacks and was on heavy medication, came free of all his problems after feeding raw for three years. A customer dog that suffered (unkown) skin problems with severe itch for years (and also here was tried 'everything') recovered after aproximately two years on raw. Another customer's dogs with generalizefd demodectic mange and almost completely bold when she called me for advice, was back in coat in about 6 weeks.

Of course, I don't want to say the animal will become immune to disease or that by giving a raw diet all problems will disappear. This naturally depends on the cause of the problems. (many vet's treat only symptoms, but not the cause. That's why problems re-occur as soon as you stop treatment. Not to even think about what this long-term medication does to your animal). But I do want to share my experience with you on behalf of the animal.

And that is that, im my opinion and experience raw feeding is the best diet you can provide to your animal. If this is not an option, then I would choose to give a cooked diet. If that still isn't an option then, at least, give high quality commercial dog (or cat) food (many custmers dogs fed on supermarket food, visibly improved after being given Science Diet for at least 10 days). And for quality you pay. On the other hand, your vet bill goes down.

Last year I have been writing articles on this subject in the Chiang Mai Mail. They are also published on their website: www.chiangmai-mail.com You can also find more info on my website: www.luckydogs.info

I do hope you will find a way to help your dog soon and euthanasia won't be necessary. She's just too lovely and sweet.

Please, don't hesitate to ask for more info, if the need arises

With friendly Greetings, Nienke

We moved from England Two & a half years ago & brought our Cairn Terrier with us.

Soon after we arrived she developed skin problems, we have consulted 4 vets here in Chiang Mai & we have tried EVERYTHING. Her life is pure misery & it's time to let her go. None of the vets up here will put her to sleep & we are desperate, does anyone know of a humane way that we can

end her suffering?

Thanks in advance

[Nienke]

<None of the vets up here will put her to sleep >

There certainly are vet's in Chaing Mai who are willing to euthanize (pet) animals. The good ones, though, will only do so when they are sure there is no way the animal can recover and only face a slow miserable painfull road to a natural death. But if they think there is still a chance the animal can live a bit longer (in a humane way) on med's they may refuse to euthanize the animal already. :

I also know of vets who euthanized perfectly healthy dogs, only because they were too much for the owner or because the owner said the dog bited (but was not willing to put time, effort or money) in a behavior rehabilitation program. :annoyed

With friendly greetings, Nienke

[bina]

nienke,

i also feel the raw food diet is good....

my poor boxer male, his last few months got raw food only and cooked rice and many of his problems did clear up (digestive problems mostly) although in the end, a week ago, we did euthenize him due to spondylitis which his hindquarters just gave in from middle back on down.... after many many months of treatments for quality of life... my thai partner used to give him massage also, and was against euthenizing , and was willing to hand feed and carry him around... but in the end Nero felt really terrible and frightned by what was happening and so that was that...

my boxer bitch suffers from allergies during certain seasons with alopecia etc... so she gets prednisone and sometimes chloriphenrimane (ahiston, or chlortrimeton) anti histamines for short term relief ...

she is now getting mostly raw food also... since the nutranugget fiasco here in israel resulting in deaths of dogs from poisoning...

good luck...

[murni]

Thank you all for your advice. I really have tried everything Except raw meat, my vet in England was totally against raw meat and bones for any dog! As a last resort I will try it, do I cut the meat up,take the skin off chicken, what sort of bones & do I have to give her vitamin & mineral

supplements?

Thanks

[elfe]

Thank you all for your advice. I really have tried everything Except raw meat, my vet in England was totally against raw meat and bones for any dog! As a last resort I will try it, do I cut the meat up,take the skin off chicken, what sort of bones & do I have to give her vitamin & mineral

supplements?

Thanks

dear murni,

I' very sorry for the suffering of your dog, please don't give up! what are you feeding your dog? I believe by switching to barf (raw diet) you will see improvement very soon! for a start try some chicken necks cut small, if she/he doesn't like it try minced beef, if necessary mixed with rice or noodles, also raw eggs mixed with it. essential for dogs especially with skin problems are the omega oils which are found in fish like mackerel or tuna, try the fish cooked as most dogs don't like it raw. you can also add oils like flax oil or olive oil in rice with for example some cooked chicken liver, cut small. for bones try meaty beef bones or chicken legs or pork soup bones. at the local markets you can find beef bones they will cut them up for you, also liver, heart, offals, blood is good, give it a try.also green leaf vegetables are very healthy, mix them cooked and cut small in the food. chicken carcasses or chicken parts are good too, but beef is better. always change the dieat and offer different, new foods. vitamins like vitamin c and e are very important for a sick dog as well, give tablets for humans. don't give calcium supplements. if your dog doesn't accept raw food, try for some days, perhaps mixed with cooked meat. usually dogs are crazy for raw meat and bones, try it!

the vets usually don't support raw feeding as they sell the manufactured food and are brainwashed by these companies. Try a google search on 'barf' or ' raw feeding dog' , lots of websites and forums and good advice on the net! also for the change to barf, it is important not that your dog gets the runnigs or an upset stomach if it has been fed only kibble for years.

good luck and all the best for your doggie!

[Nienke]

Hi All,

< I believe by switching to barf (raw diet) you will see improvement very soon! >

This is not always the case. A very small amount of dogs are not able to digest raw. Others may start with an improvement, followed by detoxification. The body will try to get rid of the toxins, received over the years, through all the possible canals it has. This can show in eye- and/or ear-discharge, all sorts of skin-rashes, cough, even (severe) diarrhea. This is a difficult phase for the owner, becuase when do you have to run to the vet for help and when do you have the detoxification let it run its course? In these cases I received huge support from my internet friends, including holistic vet's (I'm not a vet, but have gained a certificate for manager of a boarding and/or rescue kennel for small animals, level assitent vet.)

<for a start try some chicken necks cut small,>

That is the best to start with: chicken necks or wings. Why? Because these have approximately a 50% bone and 50% meat ratio. Of course, when your dog turns out to be allergic to chicken (and pretty much all dogfood contains in one or another way chicken. even those made for sensitive skin, allergen or the lamb-andrice ones)

<if she/he doesn't like it try minced beef, if necessary mixed with rice or noodles, also raw eggs mixed with it. >

Please, be carefull here. Giving to, many different things in the beginning can cause severe diarrhea. It is not advisable to give nay organ meat, veggies or raw eggs in the first two weeks of the diet. Also any cereal product I wouldn't advice, as it is very possible this is one of the reasons causing the skin problems.

It is better to start of with chicken, cold turkey, as mentioned above. If your dog does not eat it, bad luck, offer it again the next meal. Many dogs just don't recognize this kind of food the first time. Some will play with it a bit, others chew on it but don't really eat it. But you also have those that will swallow it away in one time, then look at you as if they want to say: " Man, that took you a long time to understand what I really like and need". I have seen it so many times, that the dog looks up with really grateful eyes (of course, that's my human interpretation ).

What also can help is to dip the neck or wing in boiled water for a split second (and really not longer than that!!). The outside will get the smell of cooked chicken, something that most dogs have had as treat from their owners, once in a while, and therefore they may recognize it and then eat it.

<essential for dogs especially with skin problems are the omega oils which are found in fish like mackerel or tuna> <you can also add oils like flax oil or olive oil>

Or sardines. The smaller seafish are the best.

Flax or olive oils are good oils (but I prefer to mix the oils a seach oils has different percentages of goodies in there), another excellent veggie oil is coconut oil. Just one teaspoon everyday through the meal, can do wonders. You can also rub it on the skin! The coconut oil is extremely easy to make yourself: just go to the market and buy kati. Put the bag in the fridge and wait a few hours. The oil will come to the top and the water stays down. In the fridge the oil becomes hard too, and thus easy to seperate from the water. Don't throw the water away, but mixed it through the food of the animal. The oily stuff you have left will not be cristal clear, but has debris inthere. That's no problem at all. The cristal clear ones, are only hugely expensive.

<try the fish cooked as most dogs don't like it raw>

Oh yeh! I do have experience in that! They really split it out, with huge disgusted faces

I normally use canned sardines or mackerel. Bummer is though, that all these cans contains MSG.

<for bones try meaty beef bones or chicken legs or pork soup bones. at the local markets you can find beef bones they will cut them up for you, also liver, heart, offals, blood is good, give it a try.>

Under Raw Meaty Bones is understood all these soft(er) bones a dog actually can eat. That are chicken, duck, rabbit bones, pork rib or spinal cord, or the last ribs from a cow or buffalo carcass. Skulls, big ribs of cow/buffalo, hip and shoulder bones, or leg bones are more recreational bones. The dog will chew on it but not really eat it, try to lick the bone marrow out. It can also the teeth can get worn out easily of dogs with bad. Therefore, I suggest to give recreational bones maybe ones a week. teeth.

<also green leaf vegetables are very healthy, mix them cooked and cut small in the food.>

I prefer to give even the veggies raw. For the dog being able to digest veggies and fruit you have to blend them first. In this way the hard cell-walls in the veggies and fruit will mechenically broken down and then the dog (or cat) is able to digest the goodies in the cells. some dogs absolutley will refuse to turn into a rabbit (look at there faces when they think like that ). In these cases you can do choose to cook the veggies (lightly!!) before mixing, or you start of with mixing only a tea- or tablespoon with offal meat or fish. When this goes well, you slowy increase the amount of veggies untill you reach a 50-50 basis.

<chicken carcasses or chicken parts are good too, but beef is better. >

Do not agree with this statement. Chicen and beef contain different goodies, making it both good. However, dogs with artrtitis, for example, should not eat beef at all (nor cereal products)

<always change the dieat and offer different, new foods.>

Oh yeh, that's he secret of all good diets: variety!

<vitamins like vitamin c and e are very important for a sick dog as well, give tablets for humans.>

The vitamin C products containing Ascorbic acid only can not properly be digested by the dog, meaning that what goes in from the front will almost all come out from the back. It is better to use products where the Ascorbic acid is combined with Sodium or Calcium ascorbate. I normally use the Brand 'Hi-Cee' which you can buy in any pharmacy. Start with giving 1/4 of a tablet per day for a small dog (as your dog). Keep an eye on her feces. If they go soft, stop for a day or two. Then try again but with, for example, 1/8 pill. If this goes well, slowly increase (over a week or two) to 1 pill a day (= 500 mg)

<don't give calcium supplements.>

Totally agree, if you give enough bones. How much approximately you can read in my article. over-dose of calcium can do as much harm to the animals skeleton as a lack of it can do.

<if your dog doesn't accept raw food, try for some days, perhaps mixed with cooked meat. usually dogs are crazy for raw meat and bones, try it! >

Oh yeh, you should keep your camera ready

<the vets usually don't support raw feeding as they sell the manufactured food and are brainwashed by these companies.>

Some vet's in the UK has brought this subject into the first House (or what's it called?) they try to change laws concerning the commercial pet foods.

<your dog gets the runnigs or an upset stomach if it has been fed only kibble for years.>

If that's the case, stop for a few days until the feces are back to normal. Then start with just a little piece at the time. Look how the dog is doing on this. Does it goes well, slowly increase the amount untill you reach about the amount you normally will feed you dog.

Now, this mail has become huge again,

I hope I have been of more help to you. In case you have more questions, please, just fire them off

With friendly greetings, Nienke

[murni]

Hi All,

< I believe by switching to barf (raw diet) you will see improvement very soon! >

This is not always the case. A very small amount of dogs are not able to digest raw. Others may start with an improvement, followed by detoxification. The body will try to get rid of the toxins, received over the years, through all the possible canals it has. This can show in eye- and/or ear-discharge, all sorts of skin-rashes, cough, even (severe) diarrhea. This is a difficult phase for the owner, becuase when do you have to run to the vet for help and when do you have the detoxification let it run its course? In these cases I received huge support from my internet friends, including holistic vet's (I'm not a vet, but have gained a certificate for manager of a boarding and/or rescue kennel for small animals, level assitent vet.)

<for a start try some chicken necks cut small,>

That is the best to start with: chicken necks or wings. Why? Because these have approximately a 50% bone and 50% meat ratio. Of course, when your dog turns out to be allergic to chicken (and pretty much all dogfood contains in one or another way chicken. even those made for sensitive skin, allergen or the lamb-andrice ones)

<if she/he doesn't like it try minced beef, if necessary mixed with rice or noodles, also raw eggs mixed with it. >

Please, be carefull here. Giving to, many different things in the beginning can cause severe diarrhea. It is not advisable to give nay organ meat, veggies or raw eggs in the first two weeks of the diet. Also any cereal product I wouldn't advice, as it is very possible this is one of the reasons causing the skin problems.

It is better to start of with chicken, cold turkey, as mentioned above. If your dog does not eat it, bad luck, offer it again the next meal. Many dogs just don't recognize this kind of food the first time. Some will play with it a bit, others chew on it but don't really eat it. But you also have those that will swallow it away in one time, then look at you as if they want to say: " Man, that took you a long time to understand what I really like and need". I have seen it so many times, that the dog looks up with really grateful eyes (of course, that's my human interpretation ).

What also can help is to dip the neck or wing in boiled water for a split second (and really not longer than that!!). The outside will get the smell of cooked chicken, something that most dogs have had as treat from their owners, once in a while, and therefore they may recognize it and then eat it.

<essential for dogs especially with skin problems are the omega oils which are found in fish like mackerel or tuna> <you can also add oils like flax oil or olive oil>

Or sardines. The smaller seafish are the best.

Flax or olive oils are good oils (but I prefer to mix the oils a seach oils has different percentages of goodies in there), another excellent veggie oil is coconut oil. Just one teaspoon everyday through the meal, can do wonders. You can also rub it on the skin! The coconut oil is extremely easy to make yourself: just go to the market and buy kati. Put the bag in the fridge and wait a few hours. The oil will come to the top and the water stays down. In the fridge the oil becomes hard too, and thus easy to seperate from the water. Don't throw the water away, but mixed it through the food of the animal. The oily stuff you have left will not be cristal clear, but has debris inthere. That's no problem at all. The cristal clear ones, are only hugely expensive.

<try the fish cooked as most dogs don't like it raw>

Oh yeh! I do have experience in that! They really split it out, with huge disgusted faces

I normally use canned sardines or mackerel. Bummer is though, that all these cans contains MSG.

<for bones try meaty beef bones or chicken legs or pork soup bones. at the local markets you can find beef bones they will cut them up for you, also liver, heart, offals, blood is good, give it a try.>

Under Raw Meaty Bones is understood all these soft(er) bones a dog actually can eat. That are chicken, duck, rabbit bones, pork rib or spinal cord, or the last ribs from a cow or buffalo carcass. Skulls, big ribs of cow/buffalo, hip and shoulder bones, or leg bones are more recreational bones. The dog will chew on it but not really eat it, try to lick the bone marrow out. It can also the teeth can get worn out easily of dogs with bad. Therefore, I suggest to give recreational bones maybe ones a week. teeth.

<also green leaf vegetables are very healthy, mix them cooked and cut small in the food.>

I prefer to give even the veggies raw. For the dog being able to digest veggies and fruit you have to blend them first. In this way the hard cell-walls in the veggies and fruit will mechenically broken down and then the dog (or cat) is able to digest the goodies in the cells. some dogs absolutley will refuse to turn into a rabbit (look at there faces when they think like that ). In these cases you can do choose to cook the veggies (lightly!!) before mixing, or you start of with mixing only a tea- or tablespoon with offal meat or fish. When this goes well, you slowy increase the amount of veggies untill you reach a 50-50 basis.

<chicken carcasses or chicken parts are good too, but beef is better. >

Do not agree with this statement. Chicen and beef contain different goodies, making it both good. However, dogs with artrtitis, for example, should not eat beef at all (nor cereal products)

<always change the dieat and offer different, new foods.>

Oh yeh, that's he secret of all good diets: variety!

<vitamins like vitamin c and e are very important for a sick dog as well, give tablets for humans.>

The vitamin C products containing Ascorbic acid only can not properly be digested by the dog, meaning that what goes in from the front will almost all come out from the back. It is better to use products where the Ascorbic acid is combined with Sodium or Calcium ascorbate. I normally use the Brand 'Hi-Cee' which you can buy in any pharmacy. Start with giving 1/4 of a tablet per day for a small dog (as your dog). Keep an eye on her feces. If they go soft, stop for a day or two. Then try again but with, for example, 1/8 pill. If this goes well, slowly increase (over a week or two) to 1 pill a day (= 500 mg)

<don't give calcium supplements.>

Totally agree, if you give enough bones. How much approximately you can read in my article. over-dose of calcium can do as much harm to the animals skeleton as a lack of it can do.

<if your dog doesn't accept raw food, try for some days, perhaps mixed with cooked meat. usually dogs are crazy for raw meat and bones, try it! >

Oh yeh, you should keep your camera ready

<the vets usually don't support raw feeding as they sell the manufactured food and are brainwashed by these companies.>

Some vet's in the UK has brought this subject into the first House (or what's it called?) they try to change laws concerning the commercial pet foods.

<your dog gets the runnigs or an upset stomach if it has been fed only kibble for years.>

If that's the case, stop for a few days until the feces are back to normal. Then start with just a little piece at the time. Look how the dog is doing on this. Does it goes well, slowly increase the amount untill you reach about the amount you normally will feed you dog.

Now, this mail has become huge again,

I hope I have been of more help to you. In case you have more questions, please, just fire them off

With friendly greetings, Nienke

[murni]

Thank you all for taking the time to give me your advice. Her new diet starts tomorrow!!

[Sheryl]

Sounds to me like what is hopeless is not the poor dog but the quality of veterinary care and advice you have gotten. If I understand correctly, no one has even made a clear diagnosis. If the new diet doesn’t work, I’d suggest trying to consult a western vet.

There are services where for a small fee you can get an online consultation. Two that I know of are:

www.askvetadvice.com

www.ask-the-vet.com

Since it is a skin problem, suggest you email photographs -- perhaps one full body shot and then a close up of the lesions. And give as detailed a history as possible – when it started, what has been tried so far, etc.

I think there is an excellent chance that with perseverance you can find out what the problem is and cure it. Good luck.

[Nienke]

Sounds to me like what is hopeless is not the poor dog but the quality of veterinary care and advice you have gotten. If I understand correctly, no one has even made a clear diagnosis. If the new diet doesn’t work, I’d suggest trying to consult a western vet.

There are services where for a small fee you can get an online consultation. Two that I know of are:

www.askvetadvice.com

www.ask-the-vet.com

Since it is a skin problem, suggest you email photographs -- perhaps one full body shot and then a close up of the lesions. And give as detailed a history as possible – when it started, what has been tried so far, etc.

I think there is an excellent chance that with perseverance you can find out what the problem is and cure it. Good luck.

Hi Sheryl and others,

Regular vet's,Western and Eastern alike, have learned to treat symptoms, they don't go so much to the cause of the problems as many holistic vet's do. Only a very few amount of hours is spend on nutrition at veterinary universities and faculties. And most often such a module is sponsored my the commercial pet food companies. For sure they are not going to teach that raw feeding is way much better and beneficial to the animal than their commercial brand. Many of the teachers who teach this subject are trained, again, by the commercial pet food industrie. These people often really believe what they teach, and so do the vet's who once where their students.

In the case of the cairn terrier, I think that contacting an holistic vet in the Uk would be a very good idea.

Or if you, Murni, would like me to help I have done a course on homeopathic medicine for small animals. But still I normally consult my regular and homeopathic vet-friend in Holland, too, before coming to a diagnosis and treatment.

Wish you good luck with the raw diet for your dog. Keep my fingers crossed that she will like it :-)

With Friendly Greetings, Nienke

[Nienke]

<a week ago, we did euthenize him due to spondylitis which his hindquarters just gave in from middle back on down.... ]

Bina,

I wish you lots of strenght with your huge loss.

Loosing a loved-one is horrible, but loosing a boxer is worse ...

I happened to have a enormous weakeness for this breed. And I know what this loss is, as I lost my little boxer, Lucky, three years ago. It still hurts sometimes. And sentimental as I am, I named my business after her :-)

With Friendly Greetings, Nienke

[Nienke]

Hi Murni,

How's going with the raw diet for your dog? Does she like it?

With friendly greetings, Nienke