Zoning

[dr_Pat_Pong]

I'm usually in bed by midnight anyway, my only concern is the opening times, sometimes I like a cold one in the afternoon.

kj

Buy a refrigerator

[dezeure]

All I have to say is that they are making such a big fuss out of this closure thing and are basically just F@#%ing up their country and losing tourists like ######... If people wanna stay open, let them... In Belgium a normal pub closes at 3 am. Dancings close at 9 am or sometimes all weekend long...

I hope Thais will finally realize that their "God Taksin" is not so godly... He kept lying to the people (and the rest of the world) about the chicken flu and everybody just kinda seems to agree with the fact that he tried to cover it up. In Europe a government will fall immediately when they try to cover up but this one... probably re-elected again.

I remember about 5 years ago when everything was open till 4 am or later... no one complained back then. Business was better, more tourists, booming country, everyone happy.... but now business is bad, lesser tourists, forget the booming, and hardly anyone is happy (especially with this 2 oclock or 12 oclock crap).

Seriously guys... get back to the drawing table cause you ain't scoring any points.

A foreigner who after 14 years living and working had to leave because of all these difficulties; (and I won't even begin about work permits and visas... hah)

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Go on begin about visa's and work permits....but tell us all how easy it would be for Thai's to get them in Belgium or elsewhere in Europe before you get into the the Thai rules.

[Mason45]

To Mr Pat Pong,

The difference between Thailand, Europe and other Farang countries is simple "When will Thai Police perform the duties they're paid for. Ive lived in Thailand for 12 years with my Thai wife,I love Thailand very much but surely why change the entertainment laws.Why not have plain clothed squads of Policeman checking these venues to make sure law and order prevails or is midnight well past a Thai Policemans bed time ?Only just recently,I seen 3 young boys sniffing glue,2 of them kept falling over.Two young Police officers walked past and just laughed at them, in a Farang country the minium would have been to take these young kids of the streets by the Police and take them to their parents.Thats how you protect minors,not by punishing responsible adults.

[ChiangMaiThai]

Mrs Shin did just buy a big piece of land

Perhaps turned out to be a brilliant move on her part. In December, Kungying Pojaman bought a 33-rai plot of former state land near the National Cultural Centre and Ratchadaphisek Road. Just like when Warren Buffet buys companies, it makes sense to follow the lead. I'm never that smart so I just follow the big money. It’s looking good to investigate buying property near there. New Condos are in fact expected to develop near there soon. If the zone goes thru, this area will be sizzling hot.

Come on Sunbelt. You're smarter than that. Don't you think Dear Leader might have mentioned the new zoning laws to Mrs. Dear Leader over a meal one evening? Oh, and by the way, there's 33 rai of land available up there... Putting it down to coincidence is what I would expect from the mouthpiece of Thai Yet Thai.

[argus1949]

Dear Colleagues,

do we have to close when people are singing inside a restaurant? Is this declared as Music?

Not clear to me.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

To Mr Pat Pong,

The difference between Thailand, Europe and other Farang countries is simple "When will Thai Police perform the duties they're paid for. Ive lived in Thailand for 12 years with my Thai wife,I love Thailand very much but surely why change the entertainment laws.Why not have plain clothed squads of Policeman checking these venues to make sure law and order prevails or is midnight well past a Thai Policemans bed time ?Only just recently,I seen 3 young boys sniffing glue,2 of them kept falling over.Two young Police officers walked past and just laughed at them, in a Farang country the minium would have been to take these young kids of the streets by the Police and take them to their parents.Thats how you protect minors,not by punishing responsible adults.

I agree that the instance you quote is very wrong...but I was asking the poster about Thai's getting visa's into Europe...that poster was also whining about thai visa's and work permits. So many cannot see two sides of the coin.

[ChrisP]

What about the popular bar area in Patpong, BKK..? Silom and Suriwong Roads, and adjacent sois.. Will they all close at 12.0...??

ChrisP

[Up2U]

I'm another one more concerned about opening times than closing hour.

In Pattaya there are areas (Soi Yodsak, for example) where the main trade is in the afternoon. Also in Pattayaland 1 (Billion Bar, so on). And several of the 'butterfly' bars for resident expats to get away from the wife for a few hours, ssituated East of Sukhumvit. These last are not even in the defined zones.

Walking Street does not wake up until7.30 or 8.00 at night, because traffic is allowed down there until 7.30pm.

Do the rules regarding 'dancing' apply to go-go clubs (i.e. no dancing)?

Do these people really know what they're doing?

This may be a little disjointed, because last night someone held a Karaoke party outside my bedroom window, started before I arrived home at 7.00 p.m., was still going strong when I left at 7.00 a.m. Motorbikes arriving and leaving all night, drunken Thai men singing thai songs (very badly) at four in the morning. I live in a solely residential neighbourhood - no bars, no entertainment at all - except that it is in Samut Prakarn, which has yet to decide on it's zoning laws. As this is just outside BKK, maybe someone thinks it is a good idea to establish a non-prohibition area, as Canada was to the US back in the Twenties.

[MekhongKurt]

To Mr Pat Pong,

                      The difference between Thailand, Europe and other Farang countries is simple "When will Thai Police perform the duties they're paid for. Ive lived in Thailand for 12 years with my Thai wife,I love Thailand very much but surely why change the entertainment laws.Why not have plain clothed squads of Policeman checking these venues to make sure law and order prevails or is midnight well past a Thai Policemans bed time ?Only just recently,I seen 3 young boys sniffing glue,2 of them kept falling over.Two young Police officers walked past and just laughed at them, in a Farang country the minium would have been to take these young kids of the streets by the Police and take them to their parents.Thats how you protect minors,not by punishing responsible adults.

I agree that the instance you quote is very wrong...but I was asking the poster about Thai's getting visa's into Europe...that poster was also whining about thai visa's and work permits. So many cannot see two sides of the coin.

Dr. Pat Pong --

You are quite right, of course, that some people don't seem to realize that every coin has 2 sides. But there is another aspect of this worth considering.

That is, if "1 side of the coin is wrong" doesn't mean that for the other side of the coin also to be wrong makes both sides okay. I'm American, and during my nearly 2 decades in Asia I've heard lots of my fellow countrymen complain about difficulties getting work permits, long-term visas, etc., especially in countries such as [mainland] China. In general, I have agreed with them, while acknowledging that my own country makes it ridiculously difficult for foreigners even to visit, let alone live and work there.

While it has done no good for me to have done so, I have written my elected representatives as well as officials of the Immigration and Naturalization Service and members of administrations of the day complaining about the ludicrous rigidity of U.S. laws regarding foreigners.

My having done so makes it seem reasonable to me to note with concern restrictive moves by other governments in their dealings with foreigners, although those moves can be argued to be nothing more than "the other side of the coin."

From a Thai perspective, one cannot reasonably argue that to try to rein in the free-wheeling nature of night life here is inherently wrong. However, one can question -- reasonably -- the basic strategy of pursuing such a goal in a way sure to hurt far more poor Thais than it will hurt the "dark forces" behind the evils associated with the night life industry. As a comparison, consider the hugely popular (with our Thai friends) anti-drug drive of 2003. How many big shots were apprehended? If one goes by media reports, exactly zero. Regarding corruption, another comparison is to the number of senior members of government (appointed or elected) who have been jailed or otherwise punished for corrupt activities in their official duties -- precious few, and even those few are widely regarded to have irritated stronger and bigger "dark forces" than they themselves were or to have been sacrificial lambs.

Many of my Thai friends (cynically?) believe the current plans regarding zoning of entertainment areas is nothing more than a program to boost the under-the-table income of the police and other relevant public authorities. Some cite the establishments along Sutthisan Road as examples, which, they say, are largely connected with the police and/or military. They pose the rhetorical question "Do you really believe the places where the big shots go will be regulated? Do you truly think the big shots will allow any interference in their own 'entertainment'?"

As a side closing note, let me say I was astonished last night when a friend, a Thai bar owner, was earnestly imploring other bar owners to speak up regarding the looming restrictions yet also kept saying how much she loves the current administration. This mind set that leads some people to love a government because (in her case) of such matters as the 30-baht health scheme is downright frightening in its implications -- i.e., it suggests that even when a government does one thing a native intensely dislikes that dissatisfaction is more than offest by another thing that government has done that the person *does* like.

But all this is, after all, ultimately up to the Thais to sort out -- as is proper.

[gisele]

Apart from BKK and Pattaya, not much as been mentionned about zonings for other places. What will happen Monday in Samui or Kho Phangan? Rocky Bay no more? Full moon party no more?

[Guest timbee]

I liked someone's typo just now and think that Kungying should be adopted as our group's titular mark of respect for person's of this ilk ...

However, on the subject of insider trading, Mrs Toxin is not the only one to have been so forearmed ...

Not for nothing has the owner of some of Cowboy's better go-go bars invested her and her police investors' capital in the opening of a 12 room hotel on the corner with Asok - a development begun in the middle of last year ... a smart move as hotels fall into a different category, needing to remain open on a 24 hour basis. And no small reason why now the restaurant and bar in said hotel are being converted into a cocktail lounge ...

[MekhongKurt]

To Mr Pat Pong,

                      The difference between Thailand, Europe and other Farang countries is simple "When will Thai Police perform the duties they're paid for. Ive lived in Thailand for 12 years with my Thai wife,I love Thailand very much but surely why change the entertainment laws.Why not have plain clothed squads of Policeman checking these venues to make sure law and order prevails or is midnight well past a Thai Policemans bed time ?Only just recently,I seen 3 young boys sniffing glue,2 of them kept falling over.Two young Police officers walked past and just laughed at them, in a Farang country the minium would have been to take these young kids of the streets by the Police and take them to their parents.Thats how you protect minors,not by punishing responsible adults.

I agree that the instance you quote is very wrong...but I was asking the poster about Thai's getting visa's into Europe...that poster was also whining about thai visa's and work permits. So many cannot see two sides of the coin.

Dr. Pat Pong --

You are quite right, of course, that some people don't seem to realize that every coin has 2 sides. But there is another aspect of this worth considering.

That is, if "1 side of the coin is wrong" doesn't mean that for the other side of the coin also to be wrong makes both sides okay. I'm American, and during my nearly 2 decades in Asia I've heard lots of my fellow countrymen complain about difficulties getting work permits, long-term visas, etc., especially in countries such as [mainland] China. In general, I have agreed with them, while acknowledging that my own country makes it ridiculously difficult for foreigners even to visit, let alone live and work there.

While it has done no good for me to have done so, I have written my elected representatives as well as officials of the Immigration and Naturalization Service and members of administrations of the day complaining about the ludicrous rigidity of U.S. laws regarding foreigners.

My having done so makes it seem reasonable to me to note with concern restrictive moves by other governments in their dealings with foreigners, although those moves can be argued to be nothing more than "the other side of the coin."

From a Thai perspective, one cannot reasonably argue that to try to rein in the free-wheeling nature of night life here is inherently wrong. However, one can question -- reasonably -- the basic strategy of pursuing such a goal in a way sure to hurt far more poor Thais than it will hurt the "dark forces" behind the evils associated with the night life industry. As a comparison, consider the hugely popular (with our Thai friends) anti-drug drive of 2003. How many big shots were apprehended? If one goes by media reports, exactly zero. Regarding corruption, another comparison is to the number of senior members of government (appointed or elected) who have been jailed or otherwise punished for corrupt activities in their official duties -- precious few, and even those few are widely regarded to have irritated stronger and bigger "dark forces" than they themselves were or to have been sacrificial lambs.

Many of my Thai friends (cynically?) believe the current plans regarding zoning of entertainment areas is nothing more than a program to boost the under-the-table income of the police and other relevant public authorities. Some cite the establishments along Sutthisan Road as examples, which, they say, are largely connected with the police and/or military. They pose the rhetorical question "Do you really believe the places where the big shots go will be regulated? Do you truly think the big shots will allow any interference in their own 'entertainment'?"

As a side closing note, let me say I was astonished last night when a friend, a Thai bar owner, was earnestly imploring other bar owners to speak up regarding the looming restrictions yet also kept saying how much she loves the current administration. This mind set that leads some people to love a government because (in her case) of such matters as the 30-baht health scheme is downright frightening in its implications -- i.e., it suggests that even when a government does one thing a native intensely dislikes that dissatisfaction is more than offest by another thing that government has done that the person *does* like.

But all this is, after all, ultimately up to the Thais to sort out -- as is proper.

[britmaveric]

Hmmmm so I was right that every bar/disco will pop up with accomodations in order to get around these silly rules?

Does anyone have any clue on what constitutes a proper accomodation under Thai statutes? (1 room, 2 room ect ect)

[george]

ANALYSIS / NIGHT-LIFE ZONING

Entertaining a new social order

The night-time entertainment provisions take effect next week, and not everybody is happy about it. The argument that earlier closing times will have a marked effect on certain social ills is still being questioned.

APIRADEE TREERUTKUARKUL and ANUCHA CHAROENPO

The strict imposition of entertainment zoning laws and the earlier closing time of night-time entertainment places has generated a lot of noise and heat.

Supporters of the new provisions and their opponents have kicked up a lot of dust, often obscuring the question at the centre of this furore: ``Will the earlier closure of entertainment places solve the social ills a more liberal regime is thought to encourage.''

Those who support the new order believe it will help to curb violent crime, underage drinking, drug use, teenage prostitution, gambling and certain other criminal acts. They say all of these threaten Thai society and have undermined social values and virtues.

The opponents, mostly bar and club owners, condemn the policy as misguided. The social problems the government wishes to target will not be healed by the earlier closing of nightspots. A change in business hours will only lead to more extortion by police, they say. Drug use and violence against children will continue, as will underage drinking _ which is only able to flourish because of poor law enforcement and state corruption.

The opponents think it would be better for the police to enforce existing laws and clamp down on venues which admit underage patrons or permit them to consume alcohol.

They also challenge the idea of allowing entertainment zones if the government truly believes the night-time entertainment industry is a genuine threat to the country.

The new provisions, which take effect on Monday, March 1, require clubs and other nightspots outside the entertainment zones to close at midnight, two hours earlier than is now the case. In the designated entertainment zones, including Bangkok's Patpong, Ratchadapisek road and Royal City Avenue, the rules become more complicated. Discos and hostess bars will be allowed to stay open until 2am, but venues featuring live music and serving alcohol will have to shut at one. Massage parlours in entertainment zones cannot open before 4pm, four hours later than the current time, while those outside the zones must wait until 6pm. In both cases, they must shut at midnight

The provisions are the work of a committee headed by Purachai Piumsombun, the deputy prime minister who launched the government ``social order'' campaign in his former position as interior minister. It falls to the Interior Ministry to enforce the provisions, through the city police chief in Bangkok and the provincial governors elsewhere.

The crackdown on Thailand's freewheeling night scene, with bars and clubs in Bangkok able to operate till dawn, began in August 2001 under Mr Purachai. The initiative won the strong approval of most members of the public over the howls of protest from venue owners.

Nophadol In-na, deputy secretary-general for political affairs to the prime minister and an assistant to Mr Purachai on the drafting of the provisions, said the provisions were just one step following the social order campaign. He said the earlier closing times were in response to public demand. The zoning will become a blueprint for tracking social problems and handling them systematically.

``We have allowed this sort of business to exploit social benefits for too long,'' he said. ``It's now time to put them in order for the sake of a better society.''

The old regulations did not specify entertainment places by type. Police had difficulty determining which places should close at what time. Now they will have clear-cut directives.

Mr Nophadol said the new provisions over time would end the corruption among a small number of police.

They also would help the authorities deal with human and drug trafficking, and underage drinking and prostitution at entertainment places, although the provisions alone might not end these problems altogether.

Mr Nophadol denied the changes would hurt the employees of entertainment places, tourism or other service industries, as claimed by most operators. In fact, he thought employees would be happy to work shorter hours.

``These businessmen should care more about society than just themselves,'' he said.

Wallop Tangkananurak, chairman of the senate committee on child welfare, women and the elderly, said he supported the new rules as they would help to cure the social ills over time. But he also thought the government should inaugurate a concrete welfare plan in advance to help any employees affected by the changes.

The operators of entertainment places outside the designated zones are the most incensed by the new provisions.

They claim the changes will cause more harm than good. They say the government is taking the wrong tack in dealing with social problems and crime; entertainment venues are not the source of these ills.

Somyot Suthangkul, chairman of the Nationwide Entertainment Operator Association, said he disagreed totally with the new rules because they would affect people's lifestyles and the earnings of entertainment venue owners and staff.

Mr Somyot said forcing nightspots to close at midnight would cost staff the ``big tips'' from nightclub patrons on top of what they earn. Owners would suffer lower food and drink sales.

He said many places would have to close down, and he thought the very idea this campaign would reduce crime was wrong-headed.

``Instead, many of those laid off, mostly the uneducated and poor, will turn to earning money through the drug trade or theft,'' he said. Most entertainment workers are their family's breadwinner.

Wichien Promthungkor, chairman of the Royal City Avenue (RCA) Entertainment Operator Group, said even though bars and clubs in his area were not affected by the new provisions, he opposed the initiative and thought the government was making a mistake.

Zoning may have been appropriate 20 years ago, when there were few entertainment places and these would have been easy to control, ``but now such a policy will cause many problems for entertainment operators and their employees'', he said.

Mr Wichien said the government claimed the provisions were necessary to reduce crime among the young and to deal with social problems, especially those affecting the family, but such ills are not generated by night-time entertainment alone. Crime can take place in temples and schools as well.

Chuwit Kamolvisit, a high profile massage parlour operator, accuses the government of launching its social order campaign as a cynical vote winner.

Mr Chuwit believes massage parlours can promote improved relations between husbands and wives as many women were aware their husbands sought the help of masseuses, rather than taking a permanent mistress.

From a reasonably objective position, the government and its supporters really have yet to prove the nightspot-social ills correlation. But however spurious the argument, come Monday night the lights will be coming up much earlier in most night-time entertainment places right around the country.

Time please, ladies and gentlemen.

--Bangkok Post 2004-02-27

[nigel]

Hi,

A recently failed supermarket/photoshop have now opened a girlie?!!!!!!!!!!bar,about 2/3 months ago near where Ihave lived in peace and quiet for many years,on Kata Beach,WHAT are the new closing times in Phuket for this type of entertainment,they operate recorded music at Full blast on most nights

[Up2U]

Despite protests from various posters, this thread has had over 3,650 'hits'.

I think that this indicates a great interest in the subject, and the lack of informmation available on the zoning.

I, with several others, have posted also on Pattaya Community site, regarding zones. It seems, from today's Pattaya Mail, that there will be one big zone, covering the length of Beach Road plus Walking Street, with a depth up to Third Road.

However this does not meet the criteria given out three years ago by Purachai, so how good is the iformation, really ? With three days to go before enforcement (or not, as the case may be)

[stumonster]

this 33 rai of land that was purchased, was it the lot that she managed to pay a record price per rai by out bidding all others?

others who were also very keen to aquire that particular plot? picturesque maybe.

who has more of the thais baht?

those with the most toys have the shortest attention spans!

[george]

The New York Times:

Midnight's the limit for clubs and bars

BANGKOK: Imagine a city where bars, nightclubs and even movie theaters shut down early, where young people are off the streets by curfew, where universities stage surprise drug tests and where a woman cannot enter a restaurant without a male escort.

That would not be the racy, all-night Bangkok that people like to call "fun city."

But it is Bangkok - and the rest of Thailand - as imagined by powerful government reformers who have already begun to put a crimp in the fun.

Nearly three years ago, they began what they call a "social order" campaign, enforcing a 2 a.m. closing time that nobody had ever bothered about and raiding nightspots and testing customers for drugs.

To almost everyone's surprise, the politically popular campaign has persisted despite the resistance of powerful businessmen and the complaints of Western tourists.

Now the screws are beginning to tighten.

On March 1, most nightclubs, bars and discos will have their closing times moved back to midnight, one of the most stringent curfews in Asia. After March 29, under another new regulation, all youngsters under 18 will have to be off the streets by 10 p.m. unless they are with their parents.

This month, the Interior Ministry announced a 100-fold increase in license fees that, if put into effect, is sure to put scores of restaurants, ballrooms, massage parlors and other entertainment places out of business.

With Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra intimidating the press; packing the courts, the police and the military; and all but eliminating political opposition, and with social order added to the mix, Thailand could begin to be a somewhat different place.

There are those, indeed, who warn of a creeping dictatorship as the popular and powerful prime minister moves systematically to bring the country into his grip.

"There is a very troubling hint of a yearning to gradually turn Thailand into a police state," wrote Pravit Rojanaphruk, a political commentator, in the English-language daily The Nation last week.

Government officials are not shy about saying pretty much the same thing.

"I want my children to grow up in a polite, peaceful and orderly society," said Purachai Piemsomboon, a former interior minister who instituted the crackdown, in a television interview last year.

As soon as it was started, Thailand's campaign was widely popular, with polls showing that 70 percent of the public backed it. For the moment, Purachai has become the most popular politician in the country.

"Students are reveling without a limit," he said. "Dancing is not dirty, but how they behave matters. They must not have sex in lifts or toilets. That's pathetic."

This is a time of wrenching change in Thailand as traditional social and family structures give way to the modern world. Purachai was voicing the fears of many people who see their country, and their children, running out of control.

On the other hand, there are critics who say Purachai and his fellow reformers have gotten a bit out of control themselves.

At one point, a police district in Bangkok, resurrecting a long-forgotten law, ordered entertainment places to turn away any women who tried to enter without a male escort.

Early last year, the police raided movie theaters in a shopping mall and ordered them to close at midnight, citing an old martial law curfew that was still on the books.

"Although the law was established 30 years ago, it is still practical, especially for today's generation, who face too many temptations," said Somchai Petprasert, a police colonel working as an adviser to the Education Ministry.

It has only been a little more than a decade since Thailand was ruled by generals, and the rights and freedoms of its democracy are still fragile. It was only at the end of 1997 that these were codified in a new Constitution.

Thaksin's six-year-old government has been systematically rolling back those reforms, weakening safeguards against corruption and electoral fraud, muzzling government critics and using economic pressure to stifle the press.

Public morals and social behavior may prove to be a greater challenge, though.

"We are helping them keep their virginity," explained Nikhom Jarumanee, an Education Ministry official, when an experimental curfew was tried on Valentine's Day two years ago.

Plenty of people here think this is balderdash.

The Bangkok Post, an English-language daily, summed up the mood in a sarcastic headline last week: "Lock Up the Young, This Is Thailand."

--The New York Times 2004-02-27

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Bit out on the age of the Goverment....Chuan was still PM 6 years ago. And sadly I've never had it off in a lift.

[Sick Boy]

Sad, indeed Dr.... Maybe you could try those nice glass ones in the Emporium. Nice and spacious. In the meantime stick to toilets.

[xbusman]

Reading that article makes me think of Germany 1931. Coming out of a serious financial collapse, fragile democracy giving way to a strong nationalistic leader, gradual shut down of the press, moral campaigns, lack of judicial review, registration and expulsion of aliens, step by step by step by step. It works the same in every country of the world.

[Sunbelt Asia]

"On March 1st..

1. Khun Thaksin could declare that its 2. a.m or even 1 a.m. for everyone. In his opinion 70% chance of that happening. If he does this, expect also the statement that” no NEW entertainment licenses can or will be issued outside the zones.” Thaksin definitely does not want any new places springing up outside the zones. "

Looking like 100% now, as the Interior Ministry sent yesterday Friday, a new draft saying anything after January 13th 2004 is what they are concerned about. The new draft maintaines the current closing time for entertainment businesses open before January 13th 2004 will be the same as before. " The draft follows the Prime Ministers views"

Existing entertainment businesses stock just went "limit up" ( maximum price increase in one day) :-) Horray for the good guys, the party guys and even the soi dogs! :-)

At least this will give him the benefit of the doubt that he or his wife are not corrupt by buying the 33 rai.

By this was old news anyway on the zones, came out in 2001 and held back because of 9/11/01. The zoning in fact was signed by the King in August 2001.

This indeed is a great day! Everyone should be happy now!

[george]

Thai Government Decides on Delay and Partial Reprieve Regarding Operating Hours for Various Entertainment Venues

BANGKOK: According to a story on the front page of The Nation newspaper Saturday, February 28, 2004, the Thai Cabinet put into at least temporary abeyance plans to impose strict new regulations controlling the times various types of entertainment venues can be open.

Both that report and street intelligence indicate the move came at the behest of Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra.

At this point, about the only thing that remains reasonably certain is that the date a venue's license was issued will be the major determinant. Those venues granted licenses prior to the enactment of the Entertainment Act on January 13, 2004 will continue to operate under existing laws and regulations, whereas those licenses on or after that date will be subject to the new regulations when -- and if -- they actually are brought into effect.

While the news report says plans are to enforce a new set of regulations at some point, it is unclear when that might be. Many people are speculating that one strong possibility is that the government will let the issue sit quietly for some time and then either modify or eliminate the plan.

Resistance has been vocal, vociferous, and increasingly organized, according to street intelligence.

Interest in this debate remains extreme among all parties concerned, regardless of their individual views.

As of 3:30 P.M. Saturday, The Nation had not yet updated its online edition at http://nationmultimedia.com to reflect the addition of the story to the dead-tree version's front page early Saturday morning.

--BangkokAtoZ.com 2004-02-28

http://www.bangkokatoz.com/News_Alert_28FEB2004.htm

[bartender100]

Today's Bangkok Post editorial,was firmly against the new laws,although they did not directly criticize the government,what a surprise.

[stumonster]

At least this will give him the benefit of the doubt that he or his wife are not corrupt by buying the 33 rai.

and paying a record price per rai for land in thailand, outbidding all the others who also had their eye on that particular peice of real estate....

would be interesting to view some of the files on the preferred architect's computer..

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Today's Bangkok Post editorial,was firmly against the new laws,although they did not directly criticize the government,what a surprise.

Both English language papers are now lapdogs to TRT

[et33.com]

i think balance is needed

in a way

it's good to cool off the infighting

cool the gangs roaming the streets

imagine you fear going out at night

and eventually you fear going out in the day as well

so when things gets too wild

curb it before total control is lost

surely you do not want street riots...

[george]

Follow-up:

Purachai's early-closing plan slammed

BANGKOK: Thai Rak Thai MPs from Bangkok yesterday blamed Deputy Prime Minister Purachai Piumsombun for pushing through an impractical and overzealous early-closing policy, even though his popularity remains undiminished among residents who want him to stand for governor.

Patarasak Osatanukroh said he would ask Purachai about the entertainment industry business hours at Tuesday's meeting for party MPs. So far, the closing times have been decided by high-level policymakers, leaving Bangkok MPs in the dark as to details.

He said he wanted to know the particulars so he could explain the new regulations to his constituents when they ask him, adding that he personally disagreed with the policy as it would spell problems for the entertainment industry.

Pramon Khanakasem said Singapore used to have entertainment establishments close two hours earlier at midnight and lost a lot of tourists and income as a result. The island-state had to move the closing time to 4am, which led to more revenue growth.

The Singaporean government earnestly observes zoning, and has turned a row of old shop houses into a street of entertainment outlets.

"It's too late for our government to enforce zoning because built-up areas are distributed unevenly. Tourists visit the Khao San area in droves, but even though the locality offers only dining facilities it will have to close at midnight. A-go-go bars in the red-light district of Patpong get to stay open to 1am. This leaves us at a loss as to which segment of the tourism industry the government wants to boost," he said.

Pitipong Temjaroen, who is an aide to Purachai, said entertainment venues needed a new legal definition. "Legal measures should not send guys onto the street and into trouble, but should address underage access to night spots and drug problems. We should return to square one. And this has nothing to do with fears of mobs gathering. We simply want to put miscreant businesses in order."

Addressing the confusion over whether the ministerial regulations apply to old nighteries, Pitipong said the law regulating high-rise buildings on the beach applied to new buildings only, not existing ones. "But cafes should not admit unaccompanied minors."

He said most of his colleagues disapproved of the restricted hours, which have been widely protested against.

rtainment workers, businessmen, taxi and tuk-tuk drivers and others dependent on the industry for their livelihoods.

The entertainment rules are never raised as topics of discussion in the party, he said, adding that the midnight lock-up is too unrealistic and may lead to general protests. He said the government had already been on the receiving end of mobs protesting such issues as bird flu, unrest in the South, and power plants.

Pitipong took a dim view of Purachai for never coming forth with a definite yes or no to the suggestion that he run for governor. This made it hard for Bangkok MPs to give their curious constituents a satisfactory answer.

Purachai is the favourite as a candidate for city governor among Bangkok MPs, but some criticise him for being too aloof. He is, however, well liked by residents as a candidate for Bangkok governor.

--The Nation 2004-02-29

[bartender100]

I have not seen anything in the Bangkok Post today about the new hours being reviewed,is it going ahead or not??Have the Nation followed up today