McDonalds is healthy?

[MJP]

All the Americans I know (a lot and half my family are American), would never contemplate entering a McDonalds "restaurant", a KFC, BK . . . take your pick.

The slow insidious displacement of home cooked and communally shared family meals by the industrial food system has fattened our nation and weakened our family ties. In 1900, 2 percent of meals were eaten outside the home. In 2010, 50 percent were eaten away from home and one in five breakfasts is from McDonald's.

It's also industrial living. People so busy they have to live on convenience, in the end to pay for convenience.

[Ulysses G.]

There is nothing wrong with McDonald's breakfasts once in a while. Egg McMuffins are GREAT!

Edited October 24, 2013 by Ulysses G.

[AYJAYDEE]

There is nothing wrong with McDonald's breakfasts once in a while. Egg McMuffins are GREAT!

Serving size 1 sandwich, 7.1 oz (137 g) Energy 300 kcal (1,300 kJ) Carbohydrates 30 g (10%) - Sugars 3 g - Dietary fiber 2 g (8%) Fat 12 g (19%) - saturated 5 g (24%) - trans 0^†Protein 18 g Vitamin A equiv. 90 μg (11%) Vitamin C 0 mg (0%) Vitamin E 0 mg (0%) Calcium 300 mg (30%) Iron 2.5 mg (19%) Sodium 820 mg (55%) Energy from fat 110 kcal (460 kJ) Cholesterol 260 mg (80%)

too much salt and cholesterol

[15Peter20]

Staying alive is a dying art.

[Ulysses G.]

There is nothing wrong with McDonald's breakfasts once in a while. Egg McMuffins are GREAT!

Serving size 1 sandwich, 7.1 oz (137 g) Energy 300 kcal (1,300 kJ) Carbohydrates 30 g (10%) - Sugars 3 g - Dietary fiber 2 g (8%) Fat 12 g (19%) - saturated 5 g (24%) - trans 0^†Protein 18 g Vitamin A equiv. 90 μg (11%) Vitamin C 0 mg (0%) Vitamin E 0 mg (0%) Calcium 300 mg (30%) Iron 2.5 mg (19%) Sodium 820 mg (55%) Energy from fat 110 kcal (460 kJ) Cholesterol 260 mg (80%)

too much salt and cholesterol

If that worries you, get the egg white McMuffin with a whole wheat English muffin and tell them no salt. However, most doctors now agree that eating cholesterol does not raise cholesterol levels in the blood.

http://chriskresser.com/the-diet-heart-myth-cholesterol-and-saturated-fat-are-not-the-enemy

[AYJAYDEE]

There is nothing wrong with McDonald's breakfasts once in a while. Egg McMuffins are GREAT!

Serving size 1 sandwich, 7.1 oz (137 g) Energy 300 kcal (1,300 kJ) Carbohydrates 30 g (10%) - Sugars 3 g - Dietary fiber 2 g (8%) Fat 12 g (19%) - saturated 5 g (24%) - trans 0^†Protein 18 g Vitamin A equiv. 90 μg (11%) Vitamin C 0 mg (0%) Vitamin E 0 mg (0%) Calcium 300 mg (30%) Iron 2.5 mg (19%) Sodium 820 mg (55%) Energy from fat 110 kcal (460 kJ) Cholesterol 260 mg (80%)

too much salt and cholesterol

If that worries you, get the egg white McMuffin with a whole wheat English muffin and tell them no salt. However, most doctors now agree that eating cholesterol does not raise cholesterol levels in the blood.

http://chriskresser.com/the-diet-heart-myth-cholesterol-and-saturated-fat-are-not-the-enemy

a lot of the salt is in the ham and the cheese. and I would modify that to read some DOCTORS

[Ulysses G.]

I am quite happy to eat the Egg McMuffin with only egg and cheese. IMO, it tastes great without the meat and less calories.

Edited October 25, 2013 by Ulysses G.

[chooka]

I think all those American foods are poison and their only aim is to get as rich a possible as quickly as they can. The Tabaco Companies and American food companies don't give a <deleted> about health.

[AYJAYDEE]

I think all those American foods are poison and their only aim is to get as rich a possible as quickly as they can. The Tabaco Companies and American food companies don't give a <deleted> about health.

its not just an american problem

[chooka]

I think all those American foods are poison and their only aim is to get as rich a possible as quickly as they can. The Tabaco Companies and American food companies don't give a <deleted> about health.

its not just an american problem

Maybe so but I can't think of a peddler of death like Macca's KFC etc that hails from anywhere other than the U.S.

[h90]

This place CHIC PUNJABI from INDIA is pretty healthy. The fried things are done in olive oil. Good Indian-Western fast foodish fusion flavors. Featuring grilled and fried (olive oil) chicken. It's an original concept and worth checking out.

424876_240676582688279_859644280_n.jpg

The Pattaya location (first one in Thailand) is a bit north of the famous baht bus queue to Jomtien, west side of street.

The menu is different than the Indian website menus but some of the same things. They also have Indian rice dishes with dals, etc.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Chic-Punjabi/219226381499966

fried in olive oil??

Olive oil is not very heat resistant, they would have to regulate the temperature exact and change it often.

Possible to do, but strange.

[ignis]

McDonald's I remember it as a bit of leather between bread bun with wilted bit of lettuce, with soggy thin chips....

Many many years later tried it again here, 2 bits was enough, chips ? or rock hard sticks more like, and Thai s stand in line to order this...

No go to a Thai place have a good meal, well for the price of a McDonald's meal could have 3 Thai meals, and taste s a whole lot better in my view......... so in 20 odd years still cannot see that is so nice about a McDonald's.. well the 7 baht cone is not at all bad...

[NBD]

Anyone fancy starting a Pret a Manger.

Now this is it.

Why, in this ghastly day and age of brutally fast convenience fed lifestyles can't someone build a fast food franchise that only sells really healthy food?

I think it's the future.

The trouble is good food isn't usually fast. Meat has to be cooked, vegetables have to be washed, cut and prepared. Real food also goes soggy when it's prepared too far in advance, and goes off completely after a couple of days. McDonald's (and nearly all fast food places) load their stuff with preservatives that means they can keep for ages, and then cover them with sweet or salty sauces that disguise the manky taste of the meat. This can then be lined up like a production line and churned out in seconds.

There are no easy answers on eating healthily - raw fruit vegetables are covered in pesticides, fresh meat is still force fed, most oils are bad for you in some sense, and if you want to avoid this then you will e paying a lot.

[transam]

McDonald's I remember it as a bit of leather between bread bun with wilted bit of lettuce, with soggy thin chips....

Many many years later tried it again here, 2 bits was enough, chips ? or rock hard sticks more like, and Thai s stand in line to order this...

No go to a Thai place have a good meal, well for the price of a McDonald's meal could have 3 Thai meals, and taste s a whole lot better in my view......... so in 20 odd years still cannot see that is so nice about a McDonald's.. well the 7 baht cone is not at all bad...

But, it's worldwide success shows that you are in the minority, we can't really argue about that can we.

My dad (GRHS), used to meet up with his pensioner friends on a Saturday mornings at McDonalds for coffee, only coffee, So it had it's uses .

[robblok]

you either eat at expensive restaurants, or cook for yourself at home.

If I want to eat healthy I don't do either of those.

I stock up on salad from the Tops salad bar and eat it with grilled chicken on pork. I buy cooked pumpkin, sweet potato and sweetcorn on the streets for snacks and eat fresh fruit from the fruit stalls.

Cheap and healthy enough.

That sounds OK but most people would become bored with that. I agree that for most people cooking yourself is very beneficial because you can be in complete control over the ingredients. Restaurants are generally interested in pleasing your palate, not your health profile.

I don't get bored with that as it is healthy. Thing is people who go that extra mile are more likely to succeed.

[robblok]

I never said will power was not a factor. Just not the only factor im a highly complex epidemic.

Sent from my GT-S5360B using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Of course its not the only factor, education and availability of healthy foods are 2 important ones too.

...

Then why did you falsely state that I said it was the only factor?

Then you called me an interesting name: defender of the fatties. So the "fatties" have broken the law or something and need defending?

You walk in your shoes alone. One person can't know know the experience -- medical and social of the hundreds of millions of obese people in the world.

The people to look for in cases like this for authoritative information are actual medical specialists in obesity, not the anecdotal chip on the shoulder of one who has succeeded against overweight (not even obesity?) and then seems to project an air of moral superiority over ALL of those who have not similarly succeeded (the vast majority of fat people actually). The consensus of actual experts is that will power is important but NOT ENOUGH, not enough to reverse the global obesity epidemic, where the vast majority of obese people fail to EVER succeed in long term success (five years at normal weight after obesity) despite a lifetime of trying very hard.

You know, fat people need education (not being educated is not the same thing as

"stupidity"), help from government policies, help from doctors, help from the food industry, help from friends and family, help from new scientific advances, and of course the motivation for action needs to come from themselves.

The morbidly obese need ... surgery (sadly!).

So I'm the defender of fatties? OK. Fine. I can live with that. Better than being a person attacking an entire class of humanity unfairly.

If you see a random fat person on the street and think, it's all their fault, that's being BIGOTED.

It's really no different than a person who is bigoted against a racial group seeing a random member of that race and assuming that person possesses a negative stereotype about that race.

They might. Someone else who isn't that race might. But you don't KNOW.

This link address the moral question of judging the morality of random fat people we encounter in life:

Is it right or wrong to condemn people for being obese? Obviously, obese and morbidly obese people have made mistakes in their lives. Are they morally culpable for those mistakes? How should other people judge their characters? If I see an obese person on the street, should I infer that he is lazy and unmotivated? Should I refuse to hire an obese person because I suspect he won't work as hard as a non-obese person? Is obesity a moral failing – or are there other considerations?

http://www.philosophyinaction.com/archive/2013-04-14-Q1.html

At least we agree its a combination of things, I never said its willpower alone, you need money too (good food is more expensive) also you need knowledge its hard to know what is good and what is bad.

Yes education needs to come from either friends or the government because without knowing what is good your fighting a loosing battle. If there are tablets add them in the fray as I have found and I am sure it goes for more people that sometimes you just need a small push. If you use some tablets that give you a push (even if placebo) it will help. Once results are starting to show it goes easier.

Problem is that bad food is everywhere and it is marketed heavy.. but I am not for curbing that but it is one of the problems.

Combine that with willpower and a bit of exercise then the majority of people can cure themselves.

I still think willpower is an important thing, because you can have all the knowledge in the world if you don't act the you wont succeed. But willpower without knowledge wont win you your battle. Its a combination.

Its just that with your post i get rattled as it seems that its always someone else its fault besides the person at stake. Maybe its because I believe in free will, not in faith, i believe that people can control their own destiny. I don't believe everything is controlled by a god or outside forces. Most people fail at things.. but some don't because of hard work and motivation. I feel its unfair to say there is no free will and its not their effort but destiny or outside forces that got them where they came.

I just feel what you are saying is unfair to those people who worked their but off controlled their food made sacrifices and stayed slim.

[Jingthing]

...

Its just that with your post i get rattled as it seems that its always someone else its fault besides the person at stake. Maybe its because I believe in free will, not in faith, i believe that people can control their own destiny. I don't believe everything is controlled by a god or outside forces. Most people fail at things.. but some don't because of hard work and motivation. I feel its unfair to say there is no free will and its not their effort but destiny or outside forces that got them where they came.

I just feel what you are saying is unfair to those people who worked their but off controlled their food made sacrifices and stayed slim.

Again, bizarrely, you make arguments against me suggesting I said something I never said. You seem to be arguing against some imaginary boogeyman in your head. Now, that my friend, that is unfair. Seems to me for you this is more about a philosophical/political/cultural IDEOLOGY and not about science. Not about ways that MASSES of people can reverse the obesity epidemic, because sorry Charlie, science KNOWS just giving fat people lectures about will power does not work for the masses of them. Better strategies are needed at least for people who really care about these masses of people having reasonable odds of long term success.

If you want to demonize all fat people and make judgmental moral prejudiced conclusions about them without walking in their shoes, be my guest. Maybe you can get rich and write a book called: The Ayn Rand Diet?

Of course people who succeed by hard work deserve praise and admiration. DUH! But lets look at a rich person. You see a rich person. Society loves them same as non-fat people. Maybe they never worked for it. Maybe they raised themselves up from poverty against unbelievable odds. Do both groups deserve the same praise and admiration? How do you know their specific story just based on their superficial appearance of wealth? Same difference with fat people. You don't know their individual challenges. If you jump to conclusions, you're being prejudiced.

Edited October 25, 2013 by Jingthing

[robblok]

...

Its just that with your post i get rattled as it seems that its always someone else its fault besides the person at stake. Maybe its because I believe in free will, not in faith, i believe that people can control their own destiny. I don't believe everything is controlled by a god or outside forces. Most people fail at things.. but some don't because of hard work and motivation. I feel its unfair to say there is no free will and its not their effort but destiny or outside forces that got them where they came.

I just feel what you are saying is unfair to those people who worked their but off controlled their food made sacrifices and stayed slim.

Again, bizarrely, you make arguments against me suggesting I said something I never said. You seem to be arguing against some imaginary boogeyman in your head. Now, that my friend, that is unfair. Seems to me for you this is more about a philosophical/political/cultural IDEOLOGY and not about science. Not about ways that MASSES of people can reverse the obesity epidemic, because sorry Charlie, science KNOWS just giving fat people lectures about will power does not work for the masses of them. Better strategies are needed at least for people who really care about these masses of people having reasonable odds of long term success.

If you want to demonize all fat people and make judgmental moral prejudiced conclusions about them without walking in their shoes, be my guest. Maybe you can get rich and write a book called: The Ayn Rand Diet?

Of course people who succeed by hard work deserve praise and admiration. DUH! But lets look at a rich person. You see a rich person. Society loves them same as non-fat people. Maybe they never worked for it. Maybe they raised themselves up from poverty against unbelievable odds. Do both groups deserve the same praise and admiration? How do you know their specific story just based on their superficial appearance of wealth? Same difference with fat people. You don't know their individual challenges. If you jump to conclusions, you're being prejudiced.

In every topic you come up with excuses and quotes of scientist that see it your way. I am sure I can find enough that see it the other way. I just use logic and write my own stuff because I know what I am talking about. I have exercised and controlled my food for decades. I read volumes and volumes about it and I tried plenty of stuff. I have talked with fellow gym rats about this. I have seen people transform their body from fat to lean. Those are the people who deserve the credit due as it is a hellish battle as I can attest too.

Its not about ideology if you eat the wrong food and too much of it with not enough exercise you get fat. No scientist in their right mind will challenge that. (i dare you to discredit this statement please try so with good arguments for the discussion)

So if you can't beat that statement then anyone knowing what is bad for him and has the knowledge money and time to change and does not is self inflicting the problem on himself.

Just because most people fail does not mean its impossible, most people want the easy way out (i know I do too) but for this problem there is no easy way. You need to make lifestyle choices. How many people who make the lifestyle changes and keep to it fail ? Not many.. keeping to the new lifestyle is key.

[ToddWeston]

...

Its just that with your post i get rattled as it seems that its always someone else its fault besides the person at stake. Maybe its because I believe in free will, not in faith, i believe that people can control their own destiny. I don't believe everything is controlled by a god or outside forces. Most people fail at things.. but some don't because of hard work and motivation. I feel its unfair to say there is no free will and its not their effort but destiny or outside forces that got them where they came.

I just feel what you are saying is unfair to those people who worked their but off controlled their food made sacrifices and stayed slim.

Again, bizarrely, you make arguments against me suggesting I said something I never said. You seem to be arguing against some imaginary boogeyman in your head. Now, that my friend, that is unfair. Seems to me for you this is more about a philosophical/political/cultural IDEOLOGY and not about science. Not about ways that MASSES of people can reverse the obesity epidemic, because sorry Charlie, science KNOWS just giving fat people lectures about will power does not work for the masses of them. Better strategies are needed at least for people who really care about these masses of people having reasonable odds of long term success.

If you want to demonize all fat people and make judgmental moral prejudiced conclusions about them without walking in their shoes, be my guest. Maybe you can get rich and write a book called: The Ayn Rand Diet?

Of course people who succeed by hard work deserve praise and admiration. DUH! But lets look at a rich person. You see a rich person. Society loves them same as non-fat people. Maybe they never worked for it. Maybe they raised themselves up from poverty against unbelievable odds. Do both groups deserve the same praise and admiration? How do you know their specific story just based on their superficial appearance of wealth? Same difference with fat people. You don't know their individual challenges. If you jump to conclusions, you're being prejudiced.

This topic is exhausting, you toss around the word bigotry, it is not bigotry or racism - it is an "opinion" healthy people have about fat people and obese people (leave the medically challenged out of it) the 80 or 90 percent of the people that could control their intake are the ones I'm concerned about, all the noise that's it's not our fault (again not medically challenged) is bunk. There are people on TV who have managed weight loss & live a healthy life.

Basic Weight loss is a game of numbers - reduce intake, expand caloric burn, everyone should know by now it's simple maths 7000 calories per kilo of fat - adjust accordingly. If you fail try again and again.

With or without knowing the persons background is the same judgement I make about smokers, it's an unhealthy lifestyle and whatever it takes for society or science to assist then so be it. It was labelled a disease for fear of calling it a personal behavioural habit for the vast majority of people. If it's an eating disorder fine place them in the medically challenged bucket.

I don't have to smoke to know it's not good for me and I don't have to be fat to appreciate the challenge, waiting for science or a medical cure is irresponsible whilst McDo's sells another million burgers today to obese people who could simply keep walking. (and yes I like cigars)

As for judging people rich or poor, I know which group pulls an emotional trigger for me.

[AYJAYDEE]

...

Its just that with your post i get rattled as it seems that its always someone else its fault besides the person at stake. Maybe its because I believe in free will, not in faith, i believe that people can control their own destiny. I don't believe everything is controlled by a god or outside forces. Most people fail at things.. but some don't because of hard work and motivation. I feel its unfair to say there is no free will and its not their effort but destiny or outside forces that got them where they came.

I just feel what you are saying is unfair to those people who worked their but off controlled their food made sacrifices and stayed slim.

Again, bizarrely, you make arguments against me suggesting I said something I never said. You seem to be arguing against some imaginary boogeyman in your head. Now, that my friend, that is unfair. Seems to me for you this is more about a philosophical/political/cultural IDEOLOGY and not about science. Not about ways that MASSES of people can reverse the obesity epidemic, because sorry Charlie, science KNOWS just giving fat people lectures about will power does not work for the masses of them. Better strategies are needed at least for people who really care about these masses of people having reasonable odds of long term success.

If you want to demonize all fat people and make judgmental moral prejudiced conclusions about them without walking in their shoes, be my guest. Maybe you can get rich and write a book called: The Ayn Rand Diet?

Of course people who succeed by hard work deserve praise and admiration. DUH! But lets look at a rich person. You see a rich person. Society loves them same as non-fat people. Maybe they never worked for it. Maybe they raised themselves up from poverty against unbelievable odds. Do both groups deserve the same praise and admiration? How do you know their specific story just based on their superficial appearance of wealth? Same difference with fat people. You don't know their individual challenges. If you jump to conclusions, you're being prejudiced.

This topic is exhausting, you toss around the word bigotry, it is not bigotry or racism - it is an "opinion" healthy people have about fat people and obese people (leave the medically challenged out of it) the 80 or 90 percent of the people that could control their intake are the ones I'm concerned about, all the noise that's it's not our fault (again not medically challenged) is bunk. There are people on TV who have managed weight loss & live a healthy life.

Basic Weight loss is a game of numbers - reduce intake, expand caloric burn, everyone should know by now it's simple maths 7000 calories per kilo of fat - adjust accordingly. If you fail try again and again.

With or without knowing the persons background is the same judgement I make about smokers, it's an unhealthy lifestyle and whatever it takes for society or science to assist then so be it. It was labelled a disease for fear of calling it a personal behavioural habit for the vast majority of people. If it's an eating disorder fine place them in the medically challenged bucket.

I don't have to smoke to know it's not good for me and I don't have to be fat to appreciate the challenge, waiting for science or a medical cure is irresponsible whilst McDo's sells another million burgers today to obese people who could simply keep walking. (and yes I like cigars)

As for judging people rich or poor, I know which group pulls an emotional trigger for me.

for many people, overeating is a form of addiction.

[ToddWeston]

...

Its just that with your post i get rattled as it seems that its always someone else its fault besides the person at stake. Maybe its because I believe in free will, not in faith, i believe that people can control their own destiny. I don't believe everything is controlled by a god or outside forces. Most people fail at things.. but some don't because of hard work and motivation. I feel its unfair to say there is no free will and its not their effort but destiny or outside forces that got them where they came.

I just feel what you are saying is unfair to those people who worked their but off controlled their food made sacrifices and stayed slim.

Again, bizarrely, you make arguments against me suggesting I said something I never said. You seem to be arguing against some imaginary boogeyman in your head. Now, that my friend, that is unfair. Seems to me for you this is more about a philosophical/political/cultural IDEOLOGY and not about science. Not about ways that MASSES of people can reverse the obesity epidemic, because sorry Charlie, science KNOWS just giving fat people lectures about will power does not work for the masses of them. Better strategies are needed at least for people who really care about these masses of people having reasonable odds of long term success.

If you want to demonize all fat people and make judgmental moral prejudiced conclusions about them without walking in their shoes, be my guest. Maybe you can get rich and write a book called: The Ayn Rand Diet?

Of course people who succeed by hard work deserve praise and admiration. DUH! But lets look at a rich person. You see a rich person. Society loves them same as non-fat people. Maybe they never worked for it. Maybe they raised themselves up from poverty against unbelievable odds. Do both groups deserve the same praise and admiration? How do you know their specific story just based on their superficial appearance of wealth? Same difference with fat people. You don't know their individual challenges. If you jump to conclusions, you're being prejudiced.

This topic is exhausting, you toss around the word bigotry, it is not bigotry or racism - it is an "opinion" healthy people have about fat people and obese people (leave the medically challenged out of it) the 80 or 90 percent of the people that could control their intake are the ones I'm concerned about, all the noise that's it's not our fault (again not medically challenged) is bunk. There are people on TV who have managed weight loss & live a healthy life.

Basic Weight loss is a game of numbers - reduce intake, expand caloric burn, everyone should know by now it's simple maths 7000 calories per kilo of fat - adjust accordingly. If you fail try again and again.

With or without knowing the persons background is the same judgement I make about smokers, it's an unhealthy lifestyle and whatever it takes for society or science to assist then so be it. It was labelled a disease for fear of calling it a personal behavioural habit for the vast majority of people. If it's an eating disorder fine place them in the medically challenged bucket.

I don't have to smoke to know it's not good for me and I don't have to be fat to appreciate the challenge, waiting for science or a medical cure is irresponsible whilst McDo's sells another million burgers today to obese people who could simply keep walking. (and yes I like cigars)

As for judging people rich or poor, I know which group pulls an emotional trigger for me.

for many people, overeating is a form of addiction.

You are spot on, many do suffer obesity as an addiction and they seek help, smokers use the patch, gum, laser therapy et al and some just take it upon themselves to quit cold turkey. Those are the obese people I refer to the ones that don't need any aid and can just do it - I'll support, encourage - hell I'd even jog in this heat of it helped someone.

[AYJAYDEE]

support who you choose, I just cant help but notice that you judge many suffering from addictions rather harshly.

[aussiebebe]

Some of what McDonalds sell is healthy - the salads, the bottled water - the bagged fruit such as the apples so I think it's okay to say McDs could be healthy. I bought my son a happy meal last month and I noted the apple is actually locally sourced in Thailand so at least they are supporting the local economy. Eating junk food may kill you slowly but it won't give you food poisoning like eating at some Thai food stalls can.

[AYJAYDEE]

Some of what McDonalds sell is healthy - the salads, the bottled water - the bagged fruit such as the apples so I think it's okay to say McDs could be healthy. I bought my son a happy meal last month and I noted the apple is actually locally sourced in Thailand so at least they are supporting the local economy. Eating junk food may kill you slowly but it won't give you food poisoning like eating at some Thai food stalls can.

the only time i ever got food poisoning was from a macdonalds burger

[Jingthing]

support who you choose, I just cant help but notice that you judge many suffering from addictions rather harshly.

I can't get behind the idea that food addiction is the main culprit. Obesity in humans is a VERY COMPLEX thing and research on the science of the etiology and potential solutions (that actually work for most people) are really in the infant stages.

Other than the obvious of course. Humans are wired to store fat in times of plenty (in order to survive times of famine) but much of the world has no famine anymore, so our evolutionarily efficient wiring has become dysfunctional in modern times for a huge portion of the population.

For example, obese people tend to have a different stomach bacteria profile than normal weight people and also different tolerances for processing LEPTIN (a key hormone in obesity). Just two examples, there are a number of others.

It's rather obvious there is something MEDICAL/BIOLOGICAL going on for masses of obese people, not only the small minority with explicit thyroid conditions.

The addiction model is a bit tricky because food is not drugs or alcohol you can't go cold turkey, all of us need to eat food products, usually daily.

Cheers.

Edited October 25, 2013 by Jingthing

[AYJAYDEE]

support who you choose, I just cant help but notice that you judge many suffering from addictions rather harshly.

I can't get behind the idea that food addiction is the main culprit. Obesity in humans is a VERY COMPLEX thing and research on the science of the etiology and potential solutions (that actually work for most people) are really in the infant stages.

For example, obese people tend to have a different stomach bacteria profile than normal weight people and also different tolerances for processing LEPTIN (a key hormone in obesity).

It's rather obvious there is something MEDICAL going on for masses of obese people, not only the small minority with explicit thyroid conditions.

The addiction model is a bit tricky because food is not drugs or alchohol, you can't go cold turkey, all of us need to eat food products, usually daily.

Cheers.

we can become addicted to many things and even experiences.

[Jingthing]

we can become addicted to many things and even experiences.

I agree. I just see obesity as a multi-faceted problem and think it's logical to resist any kinds of absolutist explanations of any kind. Not saying you were doing that.

For example, people who say obesity is ONLY about energy in -- energy out and there is nothing more to it are OBVIOUSLY wrong.

(Note -- I corrected my original post regarding times of plenty vs. times of famine.)

Edited October 25, 2013 by Jingthing

[robblok]

support who you choose, I just cant help but notice that you judge many suffering from addictions rather harshly.

I can't get behind the idea that food addiction is the main culprit. Obesity in humans is a VERY COMPLEX thing and research on the science of the etiology and potential solutions (that actually work for most people) are really in the infant stages.

Other than the obvious of course. Humans are wired to store fat in times of plenty (in order to survive times of famine) but much of the world has no famine anymore, so our evolutionarily efficient wiring has become dysfunctional in modern times for a huge portion of the population.

For example, obese people tend to have a different stomach bacteria profile than normal weight people and also different tolerances for processing LEPTIN (a key hormone in obesity). Just two examples, there are a number of others.

It's rather obvious there is something MEDICAL/BIOLOGICAL going on for masses of obese people, not only the small minority with explicit thyroid conditions.

The addiction model is a bit tricky because food is not drugs or alcohol you can't go cold turkey, all of us need to eat food products, usually daily.

Cheers.

JT,

Now tell me how much influence that has on the basic metabolic rate and I will be happy. I have never seen clear figures on stuff like this. Maybe you have but I haven't

Leptin signals that we are satisfied, some people have indeed an unbalanced leptin and never feel satisfied.

These things make it harder but not impossible for some people, i know i always crave more after a meal. Just a feeling i have to deal with.

What you are saying influences things but does not absolve people from taking action themselves. But id like to see some real data just saying people have this and that is why.. is not enough its not proof. It is just an indication and when it influences how much... do you have research on it ?

[Jingthing]

What you are saying influences things but does not absolve people from taking action themselves. But id like to see some real data just saying people have this and that is why.. is not enough its not proof. It is just an indication and when it influences how much... do you have research on it ?

I'm not getting sucked into your game trying to twist this into granular technical discussion of absolute proofs of anything.

Your message is all about guilt, blame, shame, blind prejudice and blanket judgments. I think that is extremely flawed and extremely unfair to the masses of obese people who deserve so much better. The point I already made which was VERY CLEAR is that obesity is a multi-faceted problem involving many factors and simplistic black and white morality messages such as those you push are simply not helpful.

Edited October 25, 2013 by Jingthing

[robblok]

What you are saying influences things but does not absolve people from taking action themselves. But id like to see some real data just saying people have this and that is why.. is not enough its not proof. It is just an indication and when it influences how much... do you have research on it ?

I'm not getting sucked into your game and make this a granular technical discussion.

Your message is all about guilt, blame, and shame. I think that is extremely flawed. The point I already made which was VERY CLEAR already is that obesity is a multi-faceted problem involving many factors and simplistic black and white morality messages such as those you push are simply not helpful.

You mean you cant back it up ? Point taken you bring up so many claims but cant back them up.