McDonalds is healthy?

[Jingthing]

You mean you cant back it up ? Point taken you bring up so many claims but cant back them up.

You can't back up your blind belief in simplistic energy in energy out models. Instead it's just easier to be a true believer in something so simplistic and supportive of your moralistic mindset. There are plenty of links available about gut bacteria and leptin. I just provided those items as EXAMPLES of the kinds of complications that show the complexity of the overall problem of obesity, not to start a technical pissing match with the likes of you.

[transam]

You mean you cant back it up ? Point taken you bring up so many claims but cant back them up.

You can't back up your blind belief in simplistic energy in energy out models. Instead it's just easier to be a true believer in something so simplistic and supportive of your moralistic mindset. There are plenty of links available about gut bacteria and leptin. I just provided those items as EXAMPLES of the kinds of complications that show the complexity of the overall problem of obesity, not to start a technical pissing match with the likes of you.

How do you know what is good or bad for ''your'' bodies system ?

[Jingthing]

How do you know what is good or bad for ''your'' bodies system ?

It's not easy. One can do extensive research. Trial and error. See a qualified nutritionist who does a custom evaluation. One size doesn't fit all.

[Tolley]

Maccas is junk food pure and simple with little redeemig features. To compare it to a lot of Thai junk food means nothing really as that is junk too.

I find it interesting that some posters here consider anything that tastes good must be unhealthy and anything that healthy food in not tasty.

I think it is often a matter of needing the tastebuds readjusted.

People who get addicted to salt, sugar and oils will often consider foods not containing big quatities as tasteless but if you actually get rid of these foods from you diet for a month or so and then go back and try and eat them you will find that these oil, salty, sugar laden foods actually taste dsigusting.

As far as getting fat is concerned I think the evidence is clear that it is much more than calories in and calories out. But what is clear if you go back twenty or thirty years ago when most food was cooked a thome and the food chain was much cleaner and people were more active there were far fewer fat people around.

[transam]

How do you know what is good or bad for ''your'' bodies system ?

It's not easy. One can do extensive research. Trial and error. See a qualified nutritionist who does a custom evaluation. One size doesn't fit all.

Exactly . I am an old guy but still lift weights, not fat, brain cells are a bit depleted BUT, I have eaten Bigmacs and Whopper with cheese at times for as long as I can remember. Even smoke a ciggy, drink beer . We are all different regarding what we were born with. An individual can eat ''healthy'' all their life, never smoke and die at an early age. Seen a few. We will all never reach old age what ever we do. Live your ''life'' doing what makes you happy, none of us have a preset age.

[Shurup]

Right obesity is more complex than calories in vs calories out, the type and quality of calories is just as important, most of everything else (minus medically challenged people) is bullocks.

Think about it:

Mr A. needs lets say 2000 calories per day to maintain his body weight. Mr. A takes 500g of sugar, dissolve it in some water and drinks it... He got his calories but are they good calories? Will this diet make him full? Of course not, he got 0 (zero) macro nutrients, zero of anything else... his body will scream for food, real food containing proteins, fats and carbs. He WILL get hungry and he WILL end up eating more. Total intake - at least 4000 cal. Will Mr. A get fat? Yes he will.

It was an extreme example, McD and most of Thai street food is on the same end of the scale. People end up eating more because they eat junk full of empty calories. People over-eat because they: have nothing better to do, bored, it makes them happy, etc. million of other excuses most of which can be dealt with some changes in diet, changes in lifestyle and with a bit of a willpower.

All of us I'm sure have an extremely fat friend who sucks on candies and chews on potato chips with some sugary drink, I have one who has a Twizzlers candy stuck in his mouth at all times and a pack of them in his pocket, every time I see him I hold myself from pulling it from his mouth, throwing it on a ground and asking: " what the F*** are you doing with yourself?"

I've never been fat, a little on a skinny side for the most of my teen and early 20s (and I've been into all sort of sports for most of my life), mid to late 20s I've been depressed for a number of years and I've seen my belly started getting larger, depression passed bad eating habits remained, I looked at myself in the mirror one day and decided I wasn't happy with my looks, I cleaned up my diet and started doing sports again, I've lost the belly fat and put on quite a few kilos of good muscles, I got used to eating "untasty" but healthy food and after a short while I started actually enjoying it, started catching those tiny but awesome flavors of wholesome foods, I don't add salt, sugar or oils to my meals to make them better and I do enjoy everything I eat, my meals make me full and I don't over eat.

Clean up your diet and clean up your lifestyle, add a bit of a willpower to stay on course and it will happen.

Sitting on a couch sucking candies and saying "I wanna loose weight" isn't gonna work, if someone isn't willing to help themselves, no one can help.

Edited October 25, 2013 by Shurup

[Ulysses G.]

I think it is often a matter of needing the tastebuds readjusted.

People who get addicted to salt, sugar and oils will often consider foods not containing big quatities as tasteless but if you actually get rid of these foods from you diet for a month or so and then go back and try and eat them you will find that these oil, salty, sugar laden foods actually taste dsigusting.

This is a load of crap. I have been eating almost nothing but vegetables, fruits, nuts, brown rice and small amounts of fish for almost 2 years, but every once in a while I will have a few fried eggs, dark chocolate, some chicken or a pancake with butter and honey and they taste GREAT. People like oil, salty, sugar laden foods, because they taste good.

[Jingthing]

...

All of us I'm sure have an extremely fat friend who sucks on candies and chews on potato chips with some sugary drink, I have one who has a Twizzlers candy stuck in his mouth at all times and a pack of them in his pocket, every time I see him I hold myself from pulling it from his mouth, throwing it on a ground and asking: " what the F*** are you doing with yourself?"

...

Most fat people I can assure you do not have a candy stuck in their mouths at all times. Some might. Some thin people might. Proving what? You have painted a COMIC BOOK portrait of fat people that does not reflect reality but feeds the disdain so many people feel when viewing random fat people on the street. That shouldn't be any more acceptable than spewing loaded negative stereotypes about any unpopular minority group. But oddly it is. Obesity is an epidemic and sadly so is fat phobia.

Why are many folk so intolerant of fat people? Discrimination on other grounds is widely frowned upon, so why is weight different?

It all comes down to control, says Susie Orbach, psychologist and author of Fat is a Feminist Issue. She believes the prejudice runs through our society.

'True aggression'

Often the assumption is that overweight people have lost their self-control. That frightens society because there is so much emphasis on being slim, she says.

"Often it's not the larger person's excess weight that is the problem, it's the other people's obsession with being thin.

...

"It's innate in people to dislike what they see as a lack of attractiveness," he says. "It makes them think such people are worthy of derision. Very young kids have been shown to have a bias against their overweight peers."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/8327753.stm

Edited October 25, 2013 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

I think it is often a matter of needing the tastebuds readjusted.

People who get addicted to salt, sugar and oils will often consider foods not containing big quatities as tasteless but if you actually get rid of these foods from you diet for a month or so and then go back and try and eat them you will find that these oil, salty, sugar laden foods actually taste dsigusting.

This is a load of crap. I have been eating almost nothing but vegetables, fruits, nuts, brown rice and small amounts of fish for almost 2 years, but every once in a while I will have a few fried eggs, dark chocolate, some chicken or a pancake with butter and honey and they taste GREAT. People like oil, salty, sugar laden foods, because they taste good.

I know what you're saying but I think people can tweak their palate to get used to different flavor profiles over time.

[transam]

I think it is often a matter of needing the tastebuds readjusted.

People who get addicted to salt, sugar and oils will often consider foods not containing big quatities as tasteless but if you actually get rid of these foods from you diet for a month or so and then go back and try and eat them you will find that these oil, salty, sugar laden foods actually taste dsigusting.

This is a load of crap. I have been eating almost nothing but vegetables, fruits, nuts, brown rice and small amounts of fish for almost 2 years, but every once in a while I will have a few fried eggs, dark chocolate, some chicken or a pancake with butter and honey and they taste GREAT. People like oil, salty, sugar laden foods, because they taste good.

I know what you're saying but I think people can tweak their palate to get used to different flavor profiles over time.

, rubbish, ask any Thai to give up Chillies or Pok Pok, they would rather die.

[StreetCowboy]

I think it is often a matter of needing the tastebuds readjusted.

People who get addicted to salt, sugar and oils will often consider foods not containing big quatities as tasteless but if you actually get rid of these foods from you diet for a month or so and then go back and try and eat them you will find that these oil, salty, sugar laden foods actually taste dsigusting.

This is a load of crap. I have been eating almost nothing but vegetables, fruits, nuts, brown rice and small amounts of fish for almost 2 years, but every once in a while I will have a few fried eggs, dark chocolate, some chicken or a pancake with butter and honey and they taste GREAT. People like oil, salty, sugar laden foods, because they taste good.

I know what you're saying but I think people can tweak their palate to get used to different flavor profiles over time.

, rubbish, ask any Thai to give up Chillies or Pok Pok, they would rather die.

True enough, and I'm the same, and I would rather have died in the absence of Belhaven 80', but I didn't, so as a poor second option I now drink lager

[StreetCowboy]

It doesn't get round the fact that McDonalds has the best quality management system in the food industry, and a business model which has achieved outstanding success. To my mind, if people would try to emulate that in pushing whatever product they had - be it rabbit food or gymnasium participation, then they would be doing us all more good than joining the bleaters "MacD Baaad! Success Baaad!"

Deliver a consistent product. Appeal to the lowest common denominator. Deliver what people want and buy.

SC

[robblok]

It doesn't get round the fact that McDonalds has the best quality management system in the food industry, and a business model which has achieved outstanding success. To my mind, if people would try to emulate that in pushing whatever product they had - be it rabbit food or gymnasium participation, then they would be doing us all more good than joining the bleaters "MacD Baaad! Success Baaad!"

Deliver a consistent product. Appeal to the lowest common denominator. Deliver what people want and buy.

SC

Its quite successful else there would not be so many of those franchises. They did a good job, its not something that i like though. But cant fault their business plan.

[Prbkk]

Agree, you can't argue with the success. Where I disagree is their target group: they market to kids and kids are not in a position to make informed decisions about what they eat. Virtually every purveyor of junk does the same ( Krispy Kreme the only major to target adults) . That sets up the pattern of eating that leads to fat/carb overload in kids and the consequent epidemic of obesity and diabetes 2. Adults make choices....when my bad choices come back to bite me on the bum, I might feel regret but I can't blame anyone else. Not so with the way these junk food merchants manipulate kids

It doesn't get round the fact that McDonalds has the best quality management system in the food industry, and a business model which has achieved outstanding success. To my mind, if people would try to emulate that in pushing whatever product they had - be it rabbit food or gymnasium participation, then they would be doing us all more good than joining the bleaters "MacD Baaad! Success Baaad!"

Deliver a consistent product. Appeal to the lowest common denominator. Deliver what people want and buy.

SC

[Jingthing]

Yes, and once a kid becomes obese the chances are great they will be an obese adult for life. The statistics say this. So one could say McDonalds and junk food pushers of their ilk have a touch of evil. Currently the best hope to stem the tide of global obesity is to reduce the number of children that become obese in the first place.

It's hardly only McDonalds though. Much of the modern food industry is on the same game. Anything that is processed and in a package is suspect.

Edited October 25, 2013 by Jingthing

[StreetCowboy]

It doesn't get round the fact that McDonalds has the best quality management system in the food industry, and a business model which has achieved outstanding success. To my mind, if people would try to emulate that in pushing whatever product they had - be it rabbit food or gymnasium participation, then they would be doing us all more good than joining the bleaters "MacD Baaad! Success Baaad!"

Deliver a consistent product. Appeal to the lowest common denominator. Deliver what people want and buy.

SC

Its quite successful else there would not be so many of those franchises. They did a good job, its not something that i like though. But cant fault their business plan.

I rarely eat there; my kids used to think MacDs were great, but now they prefer Carl Jr, where the burgers taste of meat, and I have always preferred BK for that reason.

But I'd love to have the discipline, and the organisation, and the motivation skills to achieve that level of quality and consistency in my own business. I don't, though, so I think I will forever be a hired gun or a maverick, as the situation arises

SC

Edited October 25, 2013 by StreetCowboy

[Tolley]

I think it is often a matter of needing the tastebuds readjusted.

People who get addicted to salt, sugar and oils will often consider foods not containing big quatities as tasteless but if you actually get rid of these foods from you diet for a month or so and then go back and try and eat them you will find that these oil, salty, sugar laden foods actually taste dsigusting.

This is a load of crap. I have been eating almost nothing but vegetables, fruits, nuts, brown rice and small amounts of fish for almost 2 years, but every once in a while I will have a few fried eggs, dark chocolate, some chicken or a pancake with butter and honey and they taste GREAT. People like oil, salty, sugar laden foods, because they taste good.

I dont think your example of some fried eggs, dark chocolate etc really proves very much. You are hardly indulging in a junk food orgy are you?

Does Maccas taste good if you eat it once in awhile or KFC ? I dont think so. It still tastes like crap to me. There are plenty of foods that taste great that are not laden with sugar, salt or fat. And dare I say it they are a lot tastier than any fast food. I dont really enjoy a mouth caked in oil, a dry mouth from too much salt or soft drinks that are sickly sweet.

Fast foods are often consumed out of laziness, convenience or economic considerations but I find it hard to believe that people would prefer that to say a good buffet at the hilton or a good home cooked meal.

[robblok]

Yes, and once a kid becomes obese the chances are great they will be an obese adult for life. The statistics say this. So one could say McDonalds and junk food pushers of their ilk have a touch of evil. Currently the best hope to stem the tide of global obesity is to reduce the number of children that become obese in the first place.

Something I agree with prevention is the best thing, unfortunately i see it here already in the family of the wife. 10 yo kid (nephew of wife) and 95 kg (that is more as I weigh and I am taller) 20 yo girl (younger sister of wife) 95 kg too. I sometimes eat with them and I can tell you its the amount of food they consume and the kinds.

I asked if they were not worried about getting diabetic and other health risks, they just laughed and found it funny how heavy they were. I gave up, that young kid get 4 !!! servings of rice plates full. I was shocked, just made my concerns known and then its up to them.

[ToddWeston]

Yes they are amasing marketers and deliver profits and millions are served daily, it's a sound business model ....... exactly the same as the tobacco industry in days gone by

[robblok]

It doesn't get round the fact that McDonalds has the best quality management system in the food industry, and a business model which has achieved outstanding success. To my mind, if people would try to emulate that in pushing whatever product they had - be it rabbit food or gymnasium participation, then they would be doing us all more good than joining the bleaters "MacD Baaad! Success Baaad!"

Deliver a consistent product. Appeal to the lowest common denominator. Deliver what people want and buy.

SC

Its quite successful else there would not be so many of those franchises. They did a good job, its not something that i like though. But cant fault their business plan.

I rarely eat there; my kids used to think MacDs were great, but now they prefer Carl Jr, where the burgers taste of meat, and I have always preferred BK for that reason.

But I'd love to have the discipline, and the organisation, and the motivation skills to achieve that level of quality and consistency in my own business. I don't, though, so I think I will forever be a hired gun or a maverick, as the situation arises

SC

Sure if i really want a burger id go to the places you mention. They are superior in taste to Mc D. Not sure they are much healthier but at least they taste better.

[Prbkk]

Yes, that's one of the great ironies: white rice is a huge carb load

quote name="robblok" post="6963932" timestamp="1382714066"]

Yes, and once a kid becomes obese the chances are great they will be an obese adult for life. The statistics say this. So one could say McDonalds and junk food pushers of their ilk have a touch of evil. Currently the best hope to stem the tide of global obesity is to reduce the number of children that become obese in the first place.

Something I agree with prevention is the best thing, unfortunately i see it here already in the family of the wife. 10 yo kid (nephew of wife) and 95 kg (that is more as I weigh and I am taller) 20 yo girl (younger sister of wife) 95 kg too. I sometimes eat with them and I can tell you its the amount of food they consume and the kinds.

I asked if they were not worried about getting diabetic and other health risks, they just laughed and found it funny how heavy they were. I gave up, that young kid get 4 !!! servings of rice plates full. I was shocked, just made my concerns known and then its up to them.

[ToddWeston]

Yes, and once a kid becomes obese the chances are great they will be an obese adult for life. The statistics say this. So one could say McDonalds and junk food pushers of their ilk have a touch of evil. Currently the best hope to stem the tide of global obesity is to reduce the number of children that become obese in the first place.

Something I agree with prevention is the best thing, unfortunately i see it here already in the family of the wife. 10 yo kid (nephew of wife) and 95 kg (that is more as I weigh and I am taller) 20 yo girl (younger sister of wife) 95 kg too. I sometimes eat with them and I can tell you its the amount of food they consume and the kinds.

I asked if they were not worried about getting diabetic and other health risks, they just laughed and found it funny how heavy they were. I gave up, that young kid get 4 !!! servings of ripce plates full. I was shocked, just made my concerns known and then its up to them.

Don't ever give up mate, they're family.

[robblok]

Yes, and once a kid becomes obese the chances are great they will be an obese adult for life. The statistics say this. So one could say McDonalds and junk food pushers of their ilk have a touch of evil. Currently the best hope to stem the tide of global obesity is to reduce the number of children that become obese in the first place.

Something I agree with prevention is the best thing, unfortunately i see it here already in the family of the wife. 10 yo kid (nephew of wife) and 95 kg (that is more as I weigh and I am taller) 20 yo girl (younger sister of wife) 95 kg too. I sometimes eat with them and I can tell you its the amount of food they consume and the kinds.

I asked if they were not worried about getting diabetic and other health risks, they just laughed and found it funny how heavy they were. I gave up, that young kid get 4 !!! servings of ripce plates full. I was shocked, just made my concerns known and then its up to them.

Don't ever give up mate, they're family.

Yes they are family, I made my concerns known a few times but it is ignored and laughed off. I feel sorry for the kid, knowing he will almost sure have health problems later one. The younger sister, feel sorry for her too but she is older and talked about it with her but again she does not want too and likes the food too much.

[ToddWeston]

Yes, and once a kid becomes obese the chances are great they will be an obese adult for life. The statistics say this. So one could say McDonalds and junk food pushers of their ilk have a touch of evil. Currently the best hope to stem the tide of global obesity is to reduce the number of children that become obese in the first place.

Something I agree with prevention is the best thing, unfortunately i see it here already in the family of the wife. 10 yo kid (nephew of wife) and 95 kg (that is more as I weigh and I am taller) 20 yo girl (younger sister of wife) 95 kg too. I sometimes eat with them and I can tell you its the amount of food they consume and the kinds.

I asked if they were not worried about getting diabetic and other health risks, they just laughed and found it funny how heavy they were. I gave up, that young kid get 4 !!! servings of ripce plates full. I was shocked, just made my concerns known and then its up to them.

Don't ever give up mate, they're family.

Yes they are family, I made my concerns known a few times but it is ignored and laughed off. I feel sorry for the kid, knowing he will almost sure have health problems later one. The younger sister, feel sorry for her too but she is older and talked about it with her but again she does not want too and likes the food too much.

I understand, I suppose the only thing you can do at present is wait and be there for them and offer you expertise at the appropriate time.

[Shurup]

...

All of us I'm sure have an extremely fat friend who sucks on candies and chews on potato chips with some sugary drink, I have one who has a Twizzlers candy stuck in his mouth at all times and a pack of them in his pocket, every time I see him I hold myself from pulling it from his mouth, throwing it on a ground and asking: " what the F*** are you doing with yourself?"

...

Most fat people I can assure you do not have a candy stuck in their mouths at all times. Some might. Some thin people might. Proving what? You have painted a COMIC BOOK portrait of fat people that does not reflect reality but feeds the disdain so many people feel when viewing random fat people on the street. That shouldn't be any more acceptable than spewing loaded negative stereotypes about any unpopular minority group. But oddly it is. Obesity is an epidemic and sadly so is fat phobia.

Epidemic? Like when fat person coughs on a bus and spread his fat-causing-bacteria on other innocent people? Spread of McD type of restaurants is an epidemic.

It aint a comic book, I have enough fat friends (+ my mom) to see a common denominator - they all consume too much junk food, they all have sedimentary life style with no physical exercise what-so-ever and their favorite hobby is watching a TV.

Why are many folk so intolerant of fat people? Discrimination on other grounds is widely frowned upon, so why is weight different?

It all comes down to control, says Susie Orbach, psychologist and author of Fat is a Feminist Issue. She believes the prejudice runs through our society.

'True aggression'

Often the assumption is that overweight people have lost their self-control. That frightens society because there is so much emphasis on being slim, she says.

"Often it's not the larger person's excess weight that is the problem, it's the other people's obsession with being thin.

...

"It's innate in people to dislike what they see as a lack of attractiveness," he says. "It makes them think such people are worthy of derision. Very young kids have been shown to have a bias against their overweight peers."

Fat people have always tried to come up some sort of excuse like "god gave this body", "I like the way I am", "giving birth to X number or children made me fat", etc but to me it's obvious that they're (or at least a great number of them) not happy with their bodies. Why I think so? Because I see them trying once in a while, trying to change things, but constantly failing for a number of reasons. Some just don't accept any advice believing they're smarter than you, some just can't give up their bad habits, other's give up because they don't see the immediate results and they're too anxious to get back into their comfort zone (meaning eating junk and watching TV). Everyone wants it quick and easy, quick and easy meals, quick and easy weight loss... There is no quick and easy way that works, but it's not hard either. It takes some time and motivation to chose and prepare your meals (not talking about calorie counting), it takes some time and motivation to stay in a good shape and it takes time and motivation to lose fat.

I'm not intolerant and I'm trying to help whenever and however I can. I'm also not advocating anyone to become slim, I just with the people that matter to me get in a normal range. Unfortunately their priorities are all messed up together with the lack of any amount of will power.

[Jingthing]

...

There is no quick and easy way that works, but it's not hard either. It takes some time and motivation to chose and prepare your meals (not talking about calorie counting), it takes some time and motivation to stay in a good shape and it takes time and motivation to lose fat.

It's not hard? OF COURSE it's hard. We're supposed to take your expertise, a person that has never been obese over obesity experts and the experience of many millions of obese people who have tried very hard for years and years, yet only a TINY PERCENTAGE achieve long term success short of surgery?

Again, it's hard. Pushing the specious meme that it's not hard for obese people to achieve long term success is not helpful to anyone. For the tiny percentage of previously obese people who are currently a decent weight, they will be working HARD at this for the rest of their lives to maintain that state, and statistically MOST will fail, massive will power or not.

It's similar to alcoholism that way. Once an alcohol always an alcoholic even if currently dry.

Another similarity to drinking. Imagine how daft and unfeeling it would be for a person who has never had a drinking problem telling a lifetime alcoholic how it's NOT HARD to just not have a drink. They really would have NO IDEA.

I also think it would very unusual for an obese person who has achieved long term success to say that what he has achieved is NOT HARD and that maintaining it is also NOT HARD.

Obesity experts said Taft’s experience highlights how very difficult it is for many fat people to lose substantial amounts of weight and keep it off, and how little progress has been made in finding a combination of foods that lead to permanent weight loss.

“Maybe we are looking for something that doesn’t exist,” said David B. Allison, the director of the Nutrition Obesity Research Center at the University of Alabama at Birmingham

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/15/health/in-struggle-with-weight-william-howard-taft-used-a-modern-diet.html?_r=1&

Another point I think worth mentioning is that given the massive failure rates of "diet" plans and given the medical fact that YOYO dieting (numerous big ups and big downs) causes objective damage to bodies, some obese people might be doing the rational and sensible thing NOT to get on that roller coaster. Personally I think most obese people SHOULD try but really trying is not without risk of causing more damage than NOT trying and I think people should be aware of that.

Edited October 26, 2013 by Jingthing

[Shurup]

Yes, and once a kid becomes obese the chances are great they will be an obese adult for life. The statistics say this. So one could say McDonalds and junk food pushers of their ilk have a touch of evil. Currently the best hope to stem the tide of global obesity is to reduce the number of children that become obese in the first place.

It's hardly only McDonalds though. Much of the modern food industry is on the same game. Anything that is processed and in a package is suspect.

You just said pretty much the same thing people you were arguing with were trying to say...

[Jingthing]

Yes, and once a kid becomes obese the chances are great they will be an obese adult for life. The statistics say this. So one could say McDonalds and junk food pushers of their ilk have a touch of evil. Currently the best hope to stem the tide of global obesity is to reduce the number of children that become obese in the first place.

It's hardly only McDonalds though. Much of the modern food industry is on the same game. Anything that is processed and in a package is suspect.

You just said pretty much the same thing people you were arguing with were trying to say...

I don't see it that way.

I am against judging fat people harshly as having a MORALITY problem. I think that's a form of bigotry. You don't know their story. Especially if they became obese as children, their childhood condition sets them up medically for a lifetime struggle. Yes parents should work harder at prevention but it's not easy with the society and food industry's influence.

Edited October 26, 2013 by Jingthing

[Shurup]

...

There is no quick and easy way that works, but it's not hard either. It takes some time and motivation to chose and prepare your meals (not talking about calorie counting), it takes some time and motivation to stay in a good shape and it takes time and motivation to lose fat.

It's not hard? OF COURSE it's hard. We're supposed to take your expertise, a person that has never been obese over obesity experts and the experience of many millions of obese people who have tried very hard for years and years, yet only a TINY PERCENTAGE achieve long term success short of surgery?

Again, it's hard. Pushing the specious meme that it's not hard for obese people to achieve long term success is not helpful to anyone. For the tiny percentage of previously obese people who are currently a decent weight, they will be working HARD at this for the rest of their lives to maintain that state, and statistically MOST will fail, massive will power or not.

It's similar to alcoholism that way. Once an alcohol always an alcoholic even if currently dry.

Another similarity to drinking. Imagine how daft and unfeeling it would be for a person who has never had a drinking problem telling a lifetime alcoholic how it's NOT HARD to just not have a drink. They really would have NO IDEA.

I also think it would very unusual for an obese person who has achieved long term success to say that what he has achieved is NOT HARD and that maintaining it is also NOT HARD.

Obesity experts said Taft’s experience highlights how very difficult it is for many fat people to lose substantial amounts of weight and keep it off, and how little progress has been made in finding a combination of foods that lead to permanent weight loss.

“Maybe we are looking for something that doesn’t exist,” said David B. Allison, the director of the Nutrition Obesity Research Center at the University of Alabama at Birmingham

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/15/health/in-struggle-with-weight-william-howard-taft-used-a-modern-diet.html?_r=1&

Another point I think worth mentioning is that given the massive failure rates of "diet" plans and given the medical fact that YOYO dieting (numerous big ups and big downs) causes objective damage to bodies, some obese people might be doing the rational and sensible thing NOT to get on that roller coaster. Personally I think most obese people SHOULD try but really trying is not without risk of causing more damage than NOT trying and I think people should be aware of that.

Ever heard of skinny fat people? That what I had became by the time I hit 30s. I radically changed my diet - watching every meal I ate, almost to the point of weighting up the food ingredients, on top of that I was on a thread mill 3-4 times a week 1 hr each session, I was pushing myself hard for about a year and I've achieved amazing results.

You said fat people work hard and most fail? Because they don't work hard enough. I unfortunately don't have any "before" pics, only "after" of what I have became after that one year...

[Jingthing]

Every case is different. Congratulations on your success. I am talking about the mass of obese humanity, not the anecdotal experience of one person who was never obese, and certainly never an obese child. I think I would always trust actual medical experts in obesity over the anecdotal experience of one person. Obesity has a specific clinical definition in case you didn't know, and based on what you wrote before, you were never an obese person, so have not actually triumphed over obesity, but something else.

Edited October 26, 2013 by Jingthing