Computer Stores

[Briggsy]

I did a test international transfer from UK to SCB. My branch is in Chonburi.

I paid the set fee at the UK and the money left was £107.50 which was sent as sterling.

The TT rate for selling Baht on 7 Nov, the date of receipt, was 50.0425.

£107.50 x 50.0425 Baht/£ = 5379.57 Baht

I received 4809.36 Baht.

Amount unaccounted for = 5379.57 - 4809.36 = 570.21 Baht.

Can anyone explain this?

After trawling the SCB website, the only fee I could come up with was a minimum 300 Baht, maximum 500 Baht, 0.25% fee for inward receipt of GBP in a foreign currency a/c. This is not the same as what I did. I don't have a foreign currency a/c. I just have an ordinary Thai Baht savings a/c.

There must be someone here who uses the SCB for inward transfers from British banks. Can anybody explain the fee structure?

Many thanks for your help.

[topt]

Hi Briggsy I always thought there was a 200 -500 baht fee for inward transfer costs from a foreign currency to baht account (maybe it went to 300 minimum) and then there may be correspondent bank charges which make up the difference?

Also remember the TT rate changes multiple times a day which could account for a very small discrepancy.

[Upnotover]

I have never worked it out either and have asked the bank and they also can't/wont say, but it is definitely a fixed amount + a percentage. On my transfers this year I have paid between 0.7% and 1.5% of the calculated transfer value (using published TT rates) on transfers between 1500-5000EUR. Your paying 10.6% on a small amount backs this idea. But for certain the more you send the less (%) it costs you. I might put this in a graph then can predict the fee.....or maybe not and go to the pub instead.

[Jack Mountain]

The fee that SCB charge (and i check this all the time) is 0.25% (minimum 200, maybe more now) and a 20 or 25 Baht fee ... i do not believe there's any diff between euro's and Bpounds. But are you really sure your brittish bank sended that amount (107.50)?

I did the same test abt 6-7 yrs ago and then i found out that instead of 500 euro's they sended 495 euro's. It was not really cheating, it was in the fine print ... :-(

Edited November 8, 2013 by Jack Mountain

[Briggsy]

Thanks to all for replying. I appreciate it.

1.Fluctuations in the TT rate do not account for this amount. I got the chart out and it has every rate change during the day. It would only change a few baht.

2. It appears there is some kind of fixed charge, maybe 300, maybe 500, I don't know. I know Thanachart charge 500 + 0.25% but I am talking about SCB here.

3. Upnotover. I like your graph idea. As I said this was a tester, so I am thinking about how to bring over a larger amount.

4. Jack Mountain. Did the UK bank send the full £107.50? It certainly looks like that on my a/c but maybe there is some small print. I doubt it though as British banks have swung the other way now and are very careful about misleading charges. I am 99% this is something at the Thai end.

5a. 0.25% is 13 Baht so this fee will increase to stipulated minimum 200?, 300?, 500? and then a fixed fee on top. of 20 Baht.

or

5b. A fixed fee of 200?, 300?, 500? then 0.25%.

Unless the fee is 500, neither one really gets near 570 Baht.

I hope someone can add some more to this discussion. I think it is valuable and interesting.

[Pib]

I thought the SCB fee was 0.25% (Bt200 min, 500 max) just like Bangkok Bank's currency conversion/receipt fee...Thai banks tend to have very similar fees for many things. My gut is telling me your money was converted by the Sending bank before sending, although you wanted it to go out in sterling, or there was an intermediary bank involved that took a bite as the money flowed through them.

[Naam]

Thanks to all for replying. I appreciate it.

1.Fluctuations in the TT rate do not account for this amount. I got the chart out and it has every rate change during the day. It would only change a few baht.

2. It appears there is some kind of fixed charge, maybe 300, maybe 500, I don't know. I know Thanachart charge 500 + 0.25% but I am talking about SCB here.

3. Upnotover. I like your graph idea. As I said this was a tester, so I am thinking about how to bring over a larger amount.

4. Jack Mountain. Did the UK bank send the full £107.50? It certainly looks like that on my a/c but maybe there is some small print. I doubt it though as British banks have swung the other way now and are very careful about misleading charges. I am 99% this is something at the Thai end.

5a. 0.25% is 13 Baht so this fee will increase to stipulated minimum 200?, 300?, 500? and then a fixed fee on top. of 20 Baht.

or

5b. A fixed fee of 200?, 300?, 500? then 0.25%.

Unless the fee is 500, neither one really gets near 570 Baht.

I hope someone can add some more to this discussion. I think it is valuable and interesting.

cost charged by a correspondent bank. when i SWIFT €UR from Singapore to Siam Commercial, Thailand i am hit with an additional charge of by Deutsche Bank, Frankfurt. when i SWIFT USD from Singapore to Siam Commercial, Thailand JPMorgan, NY charges a hefty fee.

DB and JPM are the correspondent banks of my SG bank. these kind of charges (they are higher than the basic SWIFT fee!) started only a couple years ago.

info for what it's worth. virtually all EUR transfers are routed via Frankfurt and all USD transfers are routed via New York. that applies even to transfers from one Singapore Bank to another Singapore Bank which are both located in the same building!

edited for addendum: in my case the correspondent bank does not charge the receiving bank or reduces the amount but my bank (the sending bank).

Edited November 8, 2013 by Naam

[Naam]

I thought the SCB fee was 0.25% (Bt200 min, 500 max) just like Bangkok Bank's currency conversion/receipt fee...Thai banks tend to have very similar fees for many things. My gut is telling me your money was converted by the Sending bank before sending, although you wanted it to go out in sterling, or there was an intermediary bank involved that took a bite as the money flowed through them.

most probably a "bite" by the intermediary.

[Jack Mountain]

Thanks to all for replying. I appreciate it.

1.Fluctuations in the TT rate do not account for this amount. I got the chart out and it has every rate change during the day. It would only change a few baht.

2. It appears there is some kind of fixed charge, maybe 300, maybe 500, I don't know. I know Thanachart charge 500 + 0.25% but I am talking about SCB here.

3. Upnotover. I like your graph idea. As I said this was a tester, so I am thinking about how to bring over a larger amount.

4. Jack Mountain. Did the UK bank send the full £107.50? It certainly looks like that on my a/c but maybe there is some small print. I doubt it though as British banks have swung the other way now and are very careful about misleading charges. I am 99% this is something at the Thai end.

5a. 0.25% is 13 Baht so this fee will increase to stipulated minimum 200?, 300?, 500? and then a fixed fee on top. of 20 Baht.

or

5b. A fixed fee of 200?, 300?, 500? then 0.25%.

Unless the fee is 500, neither one really gets near 570 Baht.

I hope someone can add some more to this discussion. I think it is valuable and interesting.

It's interesting, pls let us know when you been to the bankdesk (brittish or thai) and ask them what they have sended/received ... TIA

[Briggsy]

The UK bank (TSB) actually had a pop-up along the lines of "Are you sure you want this to go in Pounds Sterling? It will attract fees at the recipient bank....." Therefore I am as sure as I can be that the money was sent as sterling.

So it must be an intermediary.

[Naam]

The UK bank (TSB) actually had a pop-up along the lines of "Are you sure you want this to go in Pounds Sterling? It will attract fees at the recipient bank....." Therefore I am as sure as I can be that the money was sent as sterling.

So it must be an intermediary.

TSB = clowns! even if the amount was sent in Baht it would attract receiving fees in Thailand.

[Pib]

The UK bank (TSB) actually had a pop-up along the lines of "Are you sure you want this to go in Pounds Sterling? It will attract fees at the recipient bank....." Therefore I am as sure as I can be that the money was sent as sterling.

So it must be an intermediary.

TSB = clowns! even if the amount was sent in Baht it would attract receiving fees in Thailand.

Yeap, that's why they call it a currency receipt/conversion fee....that is currency receipt and/or conversion...they apply the fee whether the currency has to be converted or not...even if they didn't have to convert the funds, they still had to receive the funds. Bankers are a tricky bunch.

[fletchsmile]

Likely to be the correspondent bank middle man as Naam says

Post #10 here also gives an example:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/679082-bangkok-bank-what-is-a-correspondant-bank-in-france/

Cheers

Fletch

[Briggsy]

Thanks Fletchsmile

In both your and Naam's examples, you are sending currency that is neither the currency of the sending nation or recipient nation. In one case, Euros from Singapore to Thailand, in the other, USD from Vietnam to Thailand.

Since I am sending GBP from the UK, I am not sure if your examples are relevant.

I have politely e-mailed SCB asking for a breakdown. Not sure if I will get a comprehensible reply. We will see.

Still in the dark

Briggsy

[fletchsmile]

Thanks Fletchsmile

In both your and Naam's examples, you are sending currency that is neither the currency of the sending nation or recipient nation. In one case, Euros from Singapore to Thailand, in the other, USD from Vietnam to Thailand.

Since I am sending GBP from the UK, I am not sure if your examples are relevant.

I have politely e-mailed SCB asking for a breakdown. Not sure if I will get a comprehensible reply. We will see.

Still in the dark

Briggsy

Yes you're right in my and Naam's examples, the payment went thru the country of the currency. The key though is whether your bank is part of the clearing system in the countr(ies) it goes thru.

So the same principle applies for your transfer. Your UK bank is not part of the clearing system in Thailand. So it will have a correspondent bank (or banks) in Thailand that does its clearing for it.

Not that well worded but...

http://www.tsb.co.uk/travel/sending_money_abroad.asp

.... If we use an agent, their charge may be deducted from the payment before it reaches the recipients bank. We may not be able to tell you in advance what an agent or recipients bank will charge...

BTW It didn't used to be called TSB - "Trust in Sh*t" bank - for nothing

Cheers

Fletch

Edited November 8, 2013 by fletchsmile

[TuanLindsay]

You are correct about the fee structure. I transfer regulary to SCB from UK and inititally found discrepancies, so investigated. These are usually down to intermediary charges that you know nothing about and have no control over and are not initiated by SCB. Go to your SCB branch and ask for a printout of the transfer transaction. I am sure you will find SCB have been punctilious; take it from there with your UK Bank.

[Briggsy]

So if we accept that on this small transfer, 220 Baht went to SCB in fees, then

Intermediary bank fees = 570 -220 = 350 Baht. This is 6.5% of the transferred money. It would be important to know if this is a percentage commission, a fixed fee or a combination before transferring a larger amount.

All this in addtion to the TSB fee (£10 on smaller transfers, £17.50 on larger ones and exchange rate loss of around 0.6%)

[Pib]

Been no shortage of posts over the years where people have found out there was a correspondent bank taking a bite of the transfer. And usually it was hard for them to find this information from their sending bank who are the ones who would know. When contacting SCB be sure to ask them the amount in pounds which arrived before they did the currency conversion as that will tell you how much of your money made it to Thailand. And wouldn't it be something if you find out your bank sent the funds in baht ( even though you told them not to) and the funds also flowed through a correspondent bank who took a bite. I've seen one or two posts where that has happened. Good luck.

Sent from my Samsung S4 (GT-I9500)

Edited November 9, 2013 by Pib

[Briggsy]

Thanks again, Pib, for your helpful posts.

I am in the UK at present. I have e-mailed SCB. I doubt I will receive a reply. I will go in to my branch when I get back to Thailand.

I was hoping to get a definitive answer here in order to make a decision about a larger transfer.

[Naam]

Thanks again, Pib, for your helpful posts.

I am in the UK at present. I have e-mailed SCB. I doubt I will receive a reply. I will go in to my branch when I get back to Thailand.

I was hoping to get a definitive answer here in order to make a decision about a larger transfer.

don't worry Briggsy! the relative high cost was due to the minitransfer carried out.

[Briggsy]

SCB replied to the e-mail, simply telling me to phone their standard customer service line. I might try this on Monday but I can't imagine that an operator would be able to provide an explanation over the phone. I will ask for a printout of the transaction to be sent out by e-mail. I doubt there will be much, if any, information provided here.

[Pib]

SCB replied to the e-mail, simply telling me to phone their standard customer service line. I might try this on Monday but I can't imagine that an operator would be able to provide an explanation over the phone. I will ask for a printout of the transaction to be sent out by e-mail. I doubt there will be much, if any, information provided here.

Don't be surprised if they refuse to send anything via email. But they should be able to easily tell you "how much money arrived, in what currency, and if arriving in pounds the exchange rate given" before they applied their local fee and posted the money to your account. I'm going to bet less money arrived that what you thought arrived when means it was sending/intermediary bank fee(s), but I could be wrong...won't be the first tine & won't be the last time. Good luck.

[topt]

I actually emailed SCB and asked out of curiosity last week amd received the following -

"Thank you for your interest in our services and
so sorry if we got back to you so late.

Regarding to your email, we'd like to inform you for the bank fee charge as following:

1.Direct deposit transfer: SCB bank fee charge is 0.25% (min. 300 baht/max.500 baht) no matter that it come from which currency..........."

It has to be the intermediary/corespondent bank fees which do not tend to work on a % age so, as Naam said, if you are transferring a larger sum will not be as significant. As Pib said they are unlikely to provide account specific info by email - mind you TIT so maybe they will.........

[Briggsy]

Ahh, thanks topt.

It seems now that my initial post of minimum 300, maximum 500 Baht was on the money, if only by a bit of luck.

If what they say is correct:, then the intermediary bank might charge around 270 Baht.

so, then we can extrapolate to do a hypothetical calculation of a transfer of, say, £10,000 (504,185 Baht (mid-market rate))

All transfers attract 4 fees.

1. UK bank, in this case £17.50 for transfers over £5000. £17.50 is 882 Baht (mid-market rate)

2. Intermediary bank 270 Baht. This seems dubious to me but let's assume it is correct.

3. Exchange loss using bank TT rate. This runs at about 0.6% below the median point. (504,185 - 882 - 270) x 0.6% = 3018 Baht

4. SCB fee = 500 Baht.

Total loss on exchange

i) expressed as an amount

882 + 270 + 3018 + 500 = 4670 Baht

ii) expressed as a percentage

4670 / 504,185 x 100% = 0.93%

These figures look optimistic to me. Do they match what people receive in reality?

Edited November 10, 2013 by Briggsy

[rwdrwdrwd]

Ahh, thanks topt.

It seems now that my initial post of minimum 300, maximum 500 Baht was on the money, if only by a bit of luck.

If what they say is correct:, then the intermediary bank might charge around 270 Baht.

so, then we can extrapolate to do a hypothetical calculation of a transfer of, say, £10,000 (504,185 Baht (mid-market rate))

All transfers attract 4 fees.

1. UK bank, in this case £17.50 for transfers over £5000. £17.50 is 882 Baht (mid-market rate)

2. Intermediary bank 270 Baht. This seems dubious to me but let's assume it is correct.

3. Exchange loss using bank TT rate. This runs at about 0.6% below the median point. (504,185 - 882 - 270) x 0.6% = 3018 Baht

4. SCB fee = 500 Baht.

Total loss on exchange

i) expressed as an amount

882 + 270 + 3018 + 500 = 4670 Baht

ii) expressed as a percentage

4670 / 504,185 x 100% = 0.93%

These figures look optimistic to me. Do they match what people receive in reality?

I transferred close to 5k GBP recently (although in HKD from HK), these transfers are pretty much instant, so I have a chance to get a reasonably accurate comparison with the TT rate on the SCB website - 235.5k at TT rate, came in as 233.5k so 2000 baht between TT and post fees reality.

I can see you've included loss to TT in your calculations, so with that in mind my experience is higher than 0.93% - TT+0.6% to get median would be 237k on my transfer so loss on median with all fees was more like 1.4%

Edited November 10, 2013 by rwdrwdrwd

[Naam]

Ahh, thanks topt.

It seems now that my initial post of minimum 300, maximum 500 Baht was on the money, if only by a bit of luck.

If what they say is correct:, then the intermediary bank might charge around 270 Baht.

so, then we can extrapolate to do a hypothetical calculation of a transfer of, say, £10,000 (504,185 Baht (mid-market rate))

All transfers attract 4 fees.

1. UK bank, in this case £17.50 for transfers over £5000. £17.50 is 882 Baht (mid-market rate)

2. Intermediary bank 270 Baht. This seems dubious to me but let's assume it is correct.

3. Exchange loss using bank TT rate. This runs at about 0.6% below the median point. (504,185 - 882 - 270) x 0.6% = 3018 Baht

4. SCB fee = 500 Baht.

Total loss on exchange

i) expressed as an amount

882 + 270 + 3018 + 500 = 4670 Baht

ii) expressed as a percentage

4670 / 504,185 x 100% = 0.93%

These figures look optimistic to me. Do they match what people receive in reality?

using "mid-market" rate and comparing it with the actual TT buying rate resulting in a "loss" is wrong. the "mid rate" is purely fictitious, meant as general info, but is never actually used.

my "personal" reality concerning my last transfer (see my posting)

USD 40 SWIFT

USD 45 Correspondent bank

USD 17 (THB 500) SCB

----------------------------------------

USD 102 total fees = 0.102%

=======================

[Pib]

I agree with Naam...using mid market Forex rates in determining transfer fees is really unrealistic since that exchange rate is for BIG, BIG currency trades/wholesale money trades. Heck, even most of the banks get there foreign currency from some big currency wholesaler. Plus, any method you use to send funds is going to be using the exchange rate of the particular financial entity you are dealing with...that is a bank TT Buying Rate, Visa/MasterCard exchange rate, PayPal exchange rate, etc.,...not some mid market Forex rate. A person has no control over Forex rates; they only have some choice over which method and financial entity they use to made the exchange. Using the Forex exchange rate of the millisecond should only be used to help a person determine which method/entity to use in the transfer; do not consider it a "fee" as part of the money transfer.

I haven't done any funds transfer for over 2 years since I've been using my no foreign transaction fee debit cards to get money, but when I did my last transfer from the U.S. to my Bangkok Bank account, I used the ACH transfer method (no/low fee at the Sending bank...no fee at the banks I use), the Bangkok Bank New York branch slices off a fee depending on the amount (usually a $5 fee under $2000; $10 fee over $2000) as the money flows through them, and then the local/receiving Bangkok Bank branch used their TT Buying Rate to convert the money and then applied their 0.25% (Bt200 min, Bt500 max) receiving fee. So, a $2000 transfer would cost about $11.50 in total transfer fees...from my Sending bank to my local Bangkok Bank branch.

Although it's been a while since doing a transfers, the Bangkok Bank fees mentioned above are still current. Appears Bangkok Bank charges a little less on the receiving end since SCB has a 0.25% charge but with a Bt300 min charge vice Bangkok Bank's 0.25% but with a Bt200 min charge....for a lot of transfers it usually the min charge...right around $2600 and below is where the Bt200 charge always kicks in at Bangkok Bank...but with the SCB Bt300 min charge it would be around $3900 and below.

[Naam]

I agree with Naam...using mid market Forex rates in determining transfer fees is really unrealistic since that exchange rate is for BIG, BIG currency trades/wholesale money trades.

sorry to contradict you Pib because even "BIG BIG" amounts are trading with a bid/ask difference. that this difference "differs" a lot from the spread applied to us mortals goes without saying.

[Briggsy]

Of course, if one is only comparing foreign currency inward remittances to Thai banks, the exchange rate loss will be the same and thus can be ignored.

However, if other methods are to be considered and compared, e.g. bringing cash, credit card, traveller's cheques, Thai baht inward remittances, stored value card, etc. one requires a nominal benchmark rate for the sake of comparison.

Anyway we are somewhat edging off topic, the key point here is how the correspondent bank charge is calculated and how one can find out their fee structure.

[Pib]

Anyway we are somewhat edging off topic, the key point here is how the correspondent bank charge is calculated and how one can find out their fee structure.

You'll need to get your Sending bank to tell you as they are the ones which contract with/use correspondent bank(s) to handle/relay transfers to Thailand/SCB. I've seen posts over the years where finding out this info can sometimes be like pulling teeth with your Sending bank...they may tell you they don't know, you need to contact the correspondent bank, etc. Good luck...maybe your Sending bank will quickly provide the info. I'm looking forward to what you find out. Cheers.

Edited November 11, 2013 by Pib