Thai analysis: All eyes on court verdict on Wednesday

[webfact]

ANALYSIS
All eyes on court verdict on Wednesday
The Nation



Protests however noisy, have relied on the military or court rulings to end governments

BANGKOK: -- DESPITE mounting pressure against the government over the now-dormant bill on a blanket amnesty, political changes are unlikely to come from street protests alone. No matter how long they have dragged on, or how large they have got, such demonstrations in Thailand have never led to a change in government - at least not without intervention by an established institution such as the military.

The Constitutional Court has sometimes made rulings that led to changes in the government, such as verdicts against a ruling party or a prime minister that eventually forced their collapse.

Next Wednesday, the court is scheduled to deliver its verdict in a case filed against parliamentarians who voted for a constitutional amendment to change the Senate election system and the four coalition parties that backed that amendment. They are accused of violating the existing charter.

A guilty verdict by the court could lead to impeachment of the MPs and senators who backed the amendment, and parties in the ruling coalition could face dissolution. Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra is likely to be face pressure to take responsibility.

The court's judges also face pressure from supporters of the government. A red-shirt leader Wuthipong Kachatham yesterday said that if the ruling was "unjust", and led to dissolution of the ruling Pheu Thai Party, thousands of red shirts would protest against the Court.

The red shirts plan to gather at some locations not far from the court from Monday to Wednesday.

A group of some 200 anti-government protesters from the People's Army to Overthrow the Thaksin Regime gathered briefly outside the Constitutional Court yesterday to offer moral support.

In another blow to the government, the opposition Democrat Party yesterday submitted an impeachment motion against the prime minister, Deputy Prime Minister Plodprasop Suraswadi and Interior Minister Charupong Ruangsuwan.

The motion, sponsored by 146 Democrat MPs, was submitted to the Senate via Deputy Senate Speaker Surachai Liangboonlertchai. It alleged that the three ministers abused their authority and failed to comply with the law.

Chief opposition whip Jurin Laksanavisit led the Democrat MPs to submit the motion. He said the impeachment move would precede the opposition's censure motion against Yingluck and her ministers.

The Democrats, led by Jurin, yesterday submitted a no-confidence motion with House Speaker Somsak Kiartsuranont against the prime minister and the interior minister for alleged mismanagement and abuse of power. However, Somsak said the opposition had failed to submit accompanying documents to support its allegations. He would consult with his legal team before tabling the censure motion and authorising the debate.

Government Spokesman Teerat Ratanasevi said Yingluck's schedule for an overseas trip late this month would remain unchanged. He said the coalition whips would schedule the censure debate so that it would not coincide with the trip. "The prime minister will certainly attend the House debate," he said.

Yingluck yesterday abruptly changed her meeting venue from the Industry Ministry to Government House - apparently out of fear of an ambush by whistle-blowing protesters. She had been scheduled to meet with permanent secretary-level officers from all ministries at the Industry Ministry at 2pm. But the Government Spokesmen's Office sent a text message to reporters that the meeting venue had been changed to the Santi Maitree Building inside the Government House compound.

Sources said the meeting venue was changed because a group of protesters planned to ambush the prime minister by blowing their whistles in her face at the ministry, which is outside areas where the Internal Security Act is being enforced.

Former Democrat MP Suthep Thaugsuban, who is leading a protest at the Democracy Monument, urged people to blow whistles when they met a Cabinet member as a form of civil disobedience. So far, two ministers have been ambushed by "whistle-blowers".


-- The Nation 2013-11-16

[Thainy Tim]

Hasn't anyone told this muppet government that the Senate and the Constitution is there so that people like them can't totally control every aspect of the nation?

It is there to help alleviate the abuse of power. It is there at a higher level, because politicians alone can't be trusted.

You can't simply expect to be able to demand amendments here and there to the constitution or the procedures for picking the senate. It is all higher than the government.

Also, it is just like the brain dead reds to attempt to intimidate their own constitutional court.

They really have no clue what the hell democracy is. The UDD really do have a cheek to call themselves the United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship. Sound to me they should be called United Front for Dictatorship against Democracy.

Edited to add.

I know the UDD did not make that threat, but we all know they would be supporting it.

Edited November 15, 2013 by Thainy Tim

[webfact]

Reds ready for court verdict
The Nation

BANGKOK: -- A group of red-shirt supporters from Pathum Thani are due to hold a rally at Laksi Monument at Chaeng Wattana-Ram Intra intersection in Bangkok from Monday to Wednesday, in conjunction with another red-shirt gathering at Muang Thong Thani.

The organiser of the Laksi protest, Pongpisit "Lek Bandon" Kongsena, said they wanted to show support for the government. Fellow red-shirt Wuthipong "Ko Tee" Kotchatham said he agreed to put his differences with Lek Bandon behind in order to unify behind the government in the face of adversaries.

Wuthipong said the rallies would move to the Constitutional Court if the ruling goes against the government.

The court is due to hand down a verdict on the government's charter-amendment bill on the Senate on Wednesday. This decision is expected to make or break the Yingluck Shinawatra administration.

Meanwhile, in Udon Thani, the red shirts organised a political rally yesterday evening, which the organisers said was held in light of the judicial review. Red-shirt leaders such as Nuttawut Saikuar, Jatuporn Promphan, Thida Thavornseth and Weng Tojirakarn, were billed to turn out in full force as rally speakers.


-- The Nation 2013-11-16

[MaiChai]

Wonder if the judges have received pastry boxes recently?

[Robby nz]

The court's judges also face pressure from supporters of the government. A red-shirt leader Wuthipong Kachatham yesterday said that if the ruling was "unjust", and led to dissolution of the ruling Pheu Thai Party, thousands of red shirts would protest against the Court.

So here we go again.

The reds have given the court a warning (threat) that if they don't rule in their parties favor they will once again be in to attack them.

Is this this not illegal, unconstitutional and all the other un's and ill's that PT is accusing the Dems of?

[Robby nz]

Meanwhile, in Udon Thani, the red shirts organised a political rally yesterday evening, which the organisers said was held in light of the judicial review. Red-shirt leaders such as Nuttawut Saikuar, Jatuporn Promphan, Thida Thavornseth and Weng Tojirakarn, were billed to turn out in full force as rally speakers.

Are not PT making noises against and threatening Dem MP's who speak at the rallies in BKK ?

Yet here we have 2 sitting PT MP's speaking at a red rally.

[Thait Spot]

One law for the red

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[Rob8891]

One law for the red

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As many as that? Well, I suppose Thaksin's word is law.

[indyuk]

All of this fuss is about the old days. No one outside of the PTP wants to go forward into peaceful democracy which is the way of the civilised.

These days we have a Democratically elected government with a massive mandate. The PTP have a working relationship with all of the Thai institutions based on mutual respect and the rule of law.

Even the Thai Military are onside with mutual respect for the Thai government. Every rational human being in Thailand wants a two party democracy with a sound government and a robust opposition.

Thailand's current opposition has the other view and will not comply with the customs and Laws of a legitimate government opposition.

Now the democrat opposition are playing their self annihilation cards in the hope of removing the government illegally. Driven by their own failure, the democrats are determined to go down fighting, even if they have to take all of the colleagues down with them.

I appeal to Khunn Abhisit and Khun Suthep to stop the madness before it is too late.

[Sunderland]

I do understand the calls for democracy to take its course and the right and proper way is through elections. However, I don't think it needs half the population of Thailand to demonstrate on the streets of Thailand to demonstrate lack of confidence and trust in the present government. If the government are/were doing a good enough job, then they wouldn't have needed to go down the road of the amnesty bill, and there wouldn't be piles of rotting rice throughout the country.

It's all about Thaksin, and a share of the public coffers and nothing else. Doesn't really matter if the protests are led by a mad Democrat politician or a farmer in a red shirt ... this government doesn't deserve to continuing governing the country ... has it even started proper governance yet? The Democrats are not much better, and need to radically reform their ideas to win a general election outright.

Governments will continue to fail, fall apart, be exposed or be brought down ... until they fully understand democracy and work for the whole country above their personal interests. It's not going to happen any time soon. Let's hope the next generation demand more from their politicians than short-term handouts.

Edited November 16, 2013 by Sunderland

[robblok]

All of this fuss is about the old days. No one outside of the PTP wants to go forward into peaceful democracy which is the way of the civilised.

These days we have a Democratically elected government with a massive mandate. The PTP have a working relationship with all of the Thai institutions based on mutual respect and the rule of law.

Even the Thai Military are onside with mutual respect for the Thai government. Every rational human being in Thailand wants a two party democracy with a sound government and a robust opposition.

Thailand's current opposition has the other view and will not comply with the customs and Laws of a legitimate government opposition.

Now the democrat opposition are playing their self annihilation cards in the hope of removing the government illegally. Driven by their own failure, the democrats are determined to go down fighting, even if they have to take all of the colleagues down with them.

I appeal to Khunn Abhisit and Khun Suthep to stop the madness before it is too late.

Says the guy who supports the red thugs these demonstrations are peaceful unlike those of 2010. This is democracy the right to protest. It happens all over the world and as long as its not like the ones that burned BKK down and had armed demonstrators with grenades its ok.

Dont forget a convicted criminal is calling the shots here that is not democracy that is democrazy.

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[MikeOboe57]

[...]

I appeal to Khunn Abhisit and Khun Suthep to stop the madness before it is too late.

Well, they are doing their best, but this preposterous cartoon government does not want to resign.

[Thait Spot]

All of this fuss is about the old days. No one outside of the PTP wants to go forward into peaceful democracy which is the way of the civilised.

These days we have a Democratically elected government with a massive mandate. The PTP have a working relationship with all of the Thai institutions based on mutual respect and the rule of law.

Even the Thai Military are onside with mutual respect for the Thai government. Every rational human being in Thailand wants a two party democracy with a sound government and a robust opposition.

Thailand's current opposition has the other view and will not comply with the customs and Laws of a legitimate government opposition.

Now the democrat opposition are playing their self annihilation cards in the hope of removing the government illegally. Driven by their own failure, the democrats are determined to go down fighting, even if they have to take all of the colleagues down with them.

I appeal to Khunn Abhisit and Khun Suthep to stop the madness before it is too late.

Does 19 coups not form the basis of a custom?

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[h90]

Wonder if the judges have received pastry boxes recently?

there are rumors.....

[h90]

All of this fuss is about the old days. No one outside of the PTP wants to go forward into peaceful democracy which is the way of the civilised.

These days we have a Democratically elected government with a massive mandate. The PTP have a working relationship with all of the Thai institutions based on mutual respect and the rule of law.

Even the Thai Military are onside with mutual respect for the Thai government. Every rational human being in Thailand wants a two party democracy with a sound government and a robust opposition.

Thailand's current opposition has the other view and will not comply with the customs and Laws of a legitimate government opposition.

Now the democrat opposition are playing their self annihilation cards in the hope of removing the government illegally. Driven by their own failure, the democrats are determined to go down fighting, even if they have to take all of the colleagues down with them.

I appeal to Khunn Abhisit and Khun Suthep to stop the madness before it is too late.

PTP and peaceful...I can still recall 2010...

Massive Mandate....But not that massive to lift them above the law.

Yes a good working relationship after replacing numerous people with their cronies.

What the the opposition illegal so far? Please name it.

[473geo]

But it isn't the 'convicted criminal' as you put it 'calling the shots' Robblok

Your inability to comprehend the simple inbalance in the current Thai political/Legal situation does you no favours along with those that follow your thinking

Because Robblok if the 'convicted criminal' as you put it was calling the shots he would not be in Dubai!

It is those that wish to continue 'calling the shots' (a rather applicable phrase) they interfere with the democratic process, utilising arcaic laws open to almost any interpretation on a given day. It is these persons who are not elected by the people, but seek to run the country, who will administer and subsequently ensure the continued divide in Thailand.

Edited November 16, 2013 by 473geo

[Pimay1]

The court's judges also face pressure from supporters of the government. A red-shirt leader Wuthipong Kachatham yesterday said that if the ruling was "unjust", and led to dissolution of the ruling Pheu Thai Party, thousands of red shirts would protest against the Court.

I wonder if the ruling is "unjust" according to the red shirts if they will pour blood on the gates of the CC and the gates of the judges homes?

[Robby nz]

Because Robblok if the 'convicted criminal' as you put it was calling the shots he would not be in Dubai!

He is Dubai Geo because he is a coward for not staying and appealing his conviction, the obvious inference is that he knew he was guilty and could not win.

If you want an example of him being in charge try this from the 14/11/2013 :

Despite the mounting pressure against his sister's embattled government, ex-prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra yesterday instructed the ruling Pheu Thai Party to cling on to power in the hope the opposition-led rally against the amnesty bill would die down soon, a Pheu Thai source said yesterday

But I am sure you don't need that or any of the many other quotes (right back to Thaksin thinks PT acts) to know that he really is in charge.

[473geo]

Because Robblok if the 'convicted criminal' as you put it was calling the shots he would not be in Dubai!

He is Dubai Geo because he is a coward for not staying and appealing his conviction, the obvious inference is that he knew he was guilty and could not win.

If you want an example of him being in charge try this from the 14/11/2013 :

Despite the mounting pressure against his sister's embattled government, ex-prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra yesterday instructed the ruling Pheu Thai Party to cling on to power in the hope the opposition-led rally against the amnesty bill would die down soon, a Pheu Thai source said yesterday

But I am sure you don't need that or any of the many other quotes (right back to Thaksin thinks PT acts) to know that he really is in charge.

You know Rob when you remove a single phrase from the supporting context, then subsequently respond to your own creation, it is easy to give the impression you have missed the point of the 'original statement'

Congratulations as I have seen this previously.......but never the point missed by such a distance

[cornishcarlos]

This is so childish and boring..

Just arm all the lot of them, PTP and Dems. Send the reds down to the south (Yala) and the yellows to the Cambodian border.

Whoever claims the most extra land for Thailand, gets the big seat. The rest get nothing !!!

[GentlemanJim]

All of this fuss is about the old days. No one outside of the PTP wants to go forward into peaceful democracy which is the way of the civilised.

These days we have a Democratically elected government with a massive mandate. The PTP have a working relationship with all of the Thai institutions based on mutual respect and the rule of law.

Even the Thai Military are onside with mutual respect for the Thai government. Every rational human being in Thailand wants a two party democracy with a sound government and a robust opposition.

Thailand's current opposition has the other view and will not comply with the customs and Laws of a legitimate government opposition.

Now the democrat opposition are playing their self annihilation cards in the hope of removing the government illegally. Driven by their own failure, the democrats are determined to go down fighting, even if they have to take all of the colleagues down with them.

I appeal to Khunn Abhisit and Khun Suthep to stop the madness before it is too late.

"Father forgive them for they know not what they do write about"

[mikemac]

All of this fuss is about the old days. No one outside of the PTP wants to go forward into peaceful democracy which is the way of the civilised.

These days we have a Democratically elected government with a massive mandate. The PTP have a working relationship with all of the Thai institutions based on mutual respect and the rule of law.

Even the Thai Military are onside with mutual respect for the Thai government. Every rational human being in Thailand wants a two party democracy with a sound government and a robust opposition.

Thailand's current opposition has the other view and will not comply with the customs and Laws of a legitimate government opposition.

Now the democrat opposition are playing their self annihilation cards in the hope of removing the government illegally. Driven by their own failure, the democrats are determined to go down fighting, even if they have to take all of the colleagues down with them.

I appeal to Khunn Abhisit and Khun Suthep to stop the madness before it is too late.

I don't think it is Khun Abhisit or Suthep who should "stop the madness before it is too late"......................................

And that reminds me, I must wind up the cuckoo clock.

[mikemac]

But it isn't the 'convicted criminal' as you put it 'calling the shots' Robblok

Your inability to comprehend the simple inbalance in the current Thai political/Legal situation does you no favours along with those that follow your thinking

Because Robblok if the 'convicted criminal' as you put it was calling the shots he would not be in Dubai!

It is those that wish to continue 'calling the shots' (a rather applicable phrase) they interfere with the democratic process, utilising arcaic laws open to almost any interpretation on a given day. It is these persons who are not elected by the people, but seek to run the country, who will administer and subsequently ensure the continued divide in Thailand.

That reminds me, it's time to put the garbage out.

[kimamey]

All of this fuss is about the old days. No one outside of the PTP wants to go forward into peaceful democracy which is the way of the civilised.

These days we have a Democratically elected government with a massive mandate. The PTP have a working relationship with all of the Thai institutions based on mutual respect and the rule of law.

Even the Thai Military are onside with mutual respect for the Thai government. Every rational human being in Thailand wants a two party democracy with a sound government and a robust opposition.

Thailand's current opposition has the other view and will not comply with the customs and Laws of a legitimate government opposition.

Now the democrat opposition are playing their self annihilation cards in the hope of removing the government illegally. Driven by their own failure, the democrats are determined to go down fighting, even if they have to take all of the colleagues down with them.

I appeal to Khunn Abhisit and Khun Suthep to stop the madness before it is too late.

I'm not sure that the Democrat opposition as a whole want to remove the government illegally. It's true that there are as always some who want to take that route and we can only hope they don't succeed.

I'm not sure about the working relationship with Thai institutions. There isn't much love lost between them and the Constitutional Court.

As for the military and mutual respect I think you need to look a little closer. Leaving aside any army leaders who are supporters of, or who are related to the current government there's the issue of the protests and deaths in 2010.

There have been a few inquests so far and all as far as I'm aware have pointed to the shots being fired by the army. None of those shot would appear to have been acting in a way that would put them at risk of being shot other than in some cases by in areas that infringed the emergency laws. Their actions would seem from the evidence to be non threatening and therefore under the ROE issued by the government should not have led to them being killed. I would assume that the army would have had some hand in the preparation of the ROE as well. All this suggests the blame being on the soldiers for not abiding by the ROE but for some reason the army is not being held accountable.

Yes it's mutual but it's not respect.

Let's hope for a peaceful outcome.

[whybother]

But it isn't the 'convicted criminal' as you put it 'calling the shots' Robblok

Your inability to comprehend the simple inbalance in the current Thai political/Legal situation does you no favours along with those that follow your thinking

Because Robblok if the 'convicted criminal' as you put it was calling the shots he would not be in Dubai!

It is those that wish to continue 'calling the shots' (a rather applicable phrase) they interfere with the democratic process, utilising arcaic laws open to almost any interpretation on a given day. It is these persons who are not elected by the people, but seek to run the country, who will administer and subsequently ensure the continued divide in Thailand.

What difference does it make whether he's in Dubai? Ever heard of a telephone? There are even easier ways to communicate with people these days.

[bigbamboo]

But it isn't the 'convicted criminal' as you put it 'calling the shots' Robblok

Your inability to comprehend the simple inbalance in the current Thai political/Legal situation does you no favours along with those that follow your thinking

Because Robblok if the 'convicted criminal' as you put it was calling the shots he would not be in Dubai!

It is those that wish to continue 'calling the shots' (a rather applicable phrase) they interfere with the democratic process, utilising arcaic laws open to almost any interpretation on a given day. It is these persons who are not elected by the people, but seek to run the country, who will administer and subsequently ensure the continued divide in Thailand.

Many 'leaders' like to call the shots from a safe distance...... WWI generals had it down to a fine art and so does Thaksin.

It's a lot safer back there behind the lines.

[ratcatcher]

But it isn't the 'convicted criminal' as you put it 'calling the shots' Robblok

Your inability to comprehend the simple inbalance in the current Thai political/Legal situation does you no favours along with those that follow your thinking

Because Robblok if the 'convicted criminal' as you put it was calling the shots he would not be in Dubai!

It is those that wish to continue 'calling the shots' (a rather applicable phrase) they interfere with the democratic process, utilising arcaic laws open to almost any interpretation on a given day. It is these persons who are not elected by the people, but seek to run the country, who will administer and subsequently ensure the continued divide in Thailand.

Many 'leaders' like to call the shots from a safe distance...... WWI generals had it down to a fine art and so does Thaksin.

It's a lot safer back there behind the lines.

Funny you should say that!

Always do everything you ask of those you command.

George S. Patton

[robblok]

 

 

Because Robblok if the 'convicted criminal' as you put it was calling the shots he would not be in Dubai!

 

 

He is Dubai Geo because he is a coward for not staying and appealing his conviction, the obvious inference is that he knew he was guilty and could not win.

 

If you want an example of him being in charge try this from the 14/11/2013 :

 

 

Despite the mounting pressure against his sister's embattled government, ex-prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra yesterday instructed the ruling Pheu Thai Party to cling on to power in the hope the opposition-led rally against the amnesty bill would die down soon, a Pheu Thai source said yesterday

 

 

But I am sure you don't need that or any of the many other quotes (right back to Thaksin thinks PT acts)  to know that he really is in charge.

 

 

You know Rob when you remove a single phrase from the supporting context, then subsequently respond to your own creation, it is easy to give the impression you have missed the point of the 'original statement'

 

Congratulations as I have seen this previously.......but never the point missed by such a distance

 

His skype calls are famous.

He calls him her caddy or advisor

The other poster showed it was Taksin who did not want the government dissolution.

I was also right that he is a convicted criminal, with more serious cases pending.

This should be against the law and a reason to ban a party and all that represent it.

Sometimes i really wonder what kind of drug red supporters use it must be a kind of LSD to distort facts this much. They must have a great cheap source.

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[473geo]

You know Rob when you remove a single phrase from the supporting context, then subsequently respond to your own creation, it is easy to give the impression you have missed the point of the 'original statement'

Congratulations as I have seen this previously.......but never the point missed by such a distance

His skype calls are famous.

He calls him her caddy or advisor

The other poster showed it was Taksin who did not want the government dissolution.

I was also right that he is a convicted criminal, with more serious cases pending.

This should be against the law and a reason to ban a party and all that represent it.

Sometimes i really wonder what kind of drug red supporters use it must be a kind of LSD to distort facts this much. They must have a great cheap source.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

Not one reference to those making this judgement or to the whole 'legal' set up that appears to overide the choices of the electorate at will! You know the other connected comments in my post!

I really struggle to understand why Thaksin is your drug and warps all your thinking Robblok..you really need to look past Thaksin for the root cause of many issues in Thailand.....jeez no wonder the Dems are going nowhere with supporters showing the comprehension level of you guys.

[JAG]

All of this fuss is about the old days. No one outside of the PTP wants to go forward into peaceful democracy which is the way of the civilised.

These days we have a Democratically elected government with a massive mandate. The PTP have a working relationship with all of the Thai institutions based on mutual respect and the rule of law.

Even the Thai Military are onside with mutual respect for the Thai government. Every rational human being in Thailand wants a two party democracy with a sound government and a robust opposition.

Thailand's current opposition has the other view and will not comply with the customs and Laws of a legitimate government opposition.

Now the democrat opposition are playing their self annihilation cards in the hope of removing the government illegally. Driven by their own failure, the democrats are determined to go down fighting, even if they have to take all of the colleagues down with them.

I appeal to Khunn Abhisit and Khun Suthep to stop the madness before it is too late.

Abhisit and Suthep will not act to stop this "madness".They are facing charges for their alleged part in the 2010 shootings, they haven't a hope in hell of winning at the ballot box and know it. They need to bring down the government by other means, and fairly quickly if they are to escape their day in court.

They didn't want an amnesty because that would mean Thaksin back. Thaksin back would guarantee PT winning the next election, because of his enduring popularity with the electorate. But without an amnesty they are also likely to end up in court. Therefore they have to bring down the government.

Edited November 16, 2013 by JAG