Legal age of consent in Thailand 16 or 18

[sbk]

Post deleted, do it again and suspensions will follow

[Kudel]

Mistress whiplash please close it down ,

[LaraC]

Mistress Whiplash, before you do, do you perchance have a sharp instrument and some helium balloons lying around...?

[AYJAYDEE]

While I agree that 99.99% of the forum should not be needing to be worried about the 16-18 age group, I do disagree about all this "child" crap.

While certainly the majority of 16-18 girls are kids, typically any of those girls willing to go with an older guy know exactly what it's about. If you listen to some of their conversations or pay attention to the fashion choices of this subset, you will notice a stark difference.

Further more, I have been in clubs plenty of times only to find out some of the girls there are underage. Plenty of them drinking, and dancing like their 20-25yr old counterparts when in reality they are 14-18.

So calling them a child just because their age is too black and white, the reality is much more gray. And if you are closer to you young 20's be mindful of these fake ID's as I doubt your excuse will hold up in court...

see SBK above

[Travel2003]

The local police will hold you overnight, while an assistant US district attorney flies to Bangkok to pick you up. You will be transported there overnight also, if you are not there already. He will arrest you, take you back to the US in handcuffs on a commercial flight, and you will be charged with statutory rape, in D.C, in a federal court. Unless you have two million dollars or more, to spend on a legal team (comparable to OJ Simpsons team) you will be prosecuted, and you will spend a minimum of 10 years in a federal prison in the US, as a statutory rapist. I hear the inmates are not fond of these guys, so you will make a lot of new friends inside.

Interesting, but I think not true. How could they return the American citizen without transporting the 'victim' and witnesses.

Do rules of 'habeas corpus' et al, no longer apply?

You will find that Federal police located in Thailand can take obtain evidence in Thailand for an arrest warrant and extradition, working with RTP, without the need to physically transport victims, witnesses and so on back to USA for trial, same applies for UK & Australian police forces. If needed, testimony at the time of trial can be provided via video link as is common in child sex offences

Interesting issue, which is a bit on the side of the topic maybe.

Anyhow, I have experienced several times in my job, where we have had criminal (or potential) cases within the jurisdiction of USA.

Each and every time we have been told that also witness and/or victim must be presented in the US court, and NOT only the accused.

Most cases end in the alleged victim dropping the case due to the travel issues.

[BlackArtemis]

While I agree that 99.99% of the forum should not be needing to be worried about the 16-18 age group, I do disagree about all this "child" crap.

While certainly the majority of 16-18 girls are kids, typically any of those girls willing to go with an older guy know exactly what it's about. If you listen to some of their conversations or pay attention to the fashion choices of this subset, you will notice a stark difference.

Further more, I have been in clubs plenty of times only to find out some of the girls there are underage. Plenty of them drinking, and dancing like their 20-25yr old counterparts when in reality they are 14-18.

So calling them a child just because their age is too black and white, the reality is much more gray. And if you are closer to you young 20's be mindful of these fake ID's as I doubt your excuse will hold up in court...

see SBK above

As I said, subset, or a portion of the greater population (though I used poor wording with "know exactly"). As for SBK's comment it does swing both ways with, again some, of the population being more mature. My opinions, which are opinions, are formed from experience and 2 degrees in human development and family science and biology. Adolescent sexuality is an interesting, touchy, and often eye opening subject...

I would also like to make it clear that I agree that picking up under 18 year olds or even trying to find the youngest girls possible to fulfill some fantasy is just skeevy and just because some of these girls are willing, doesn't make it any better.

Edited November 24, 2013 by BlackArtemis

[Crazy chef 1]

are you a pervet or jusy a kiddy fiddler?

in regards of this question?

[Skint]

There have been a few of these posts on TV which would indicate that people are looking for some sort of forgiveness or excuse as to what they are doing/done/want to.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[spidermike007]

As FiftyTwo stated in post #2, several countries' laws trump Thai laws for its citizens anywhere, wherever the former's laws are more restrictive.

Example: in the early-to-mid 2000s, U.S. AG Ashcroft established a new policy, warning that any American citizen anywhere, regardless of local laws, would be charged with Pedophilia-related crimes if he or she had sex with someone under the age of 18.

As far as I know, no succeeding AG has ever rescinded the policy, nor has anyone so-charged ever appealed their conviction up to the SCOTUS.

So if a US citizen went to the UK and had consensual sex with a 16 yo, which is legal, they go to jail on return to the US? Has that actually happened?

Yes, absolutely true. The local laws apply, but the laws of the land of the passport holder supersede them every time. This is a fact.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Do you like do dress her up in a schoolgirl uniform at age of 30?

50 million grown up Japanese men do.

It is a Lolita thing. Nothing to do with Pedo.

For the record: Not my style though.

I was fortunate enough that my now wife still dressed in the uniform when we met.

So no need for dress-ups.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Yes, absolutely true. The local laws apply, but the laws of the land of the passport holder supersede them every time. This is a fact.

No they don't. If those laws superseded Thai law then it'd be A-Okay to have sex with a 16 year old, depending on the state (or country) where I was from. Plenty US states (and Canada, and Europe) have it at 16.

What you mean is that 'they also apply'.

Getting back on topic though I think the answer to the OP is '18, for all intends and purposes.'

On page one of this topic the complete Thai law was linked to by a helpful moderator, and it doesn't mention any relevant age other than 'under 18'.

People did mention that Thai law empowers parents to disallow their children to be away from them (eloping, etc.) until 20, though again in a typical setting where a foreigner might meet an 18-20 year old girl, the girl would already be well away from her parental home, so this no longer applies. (It will apply though if you manage to bag a middle/upper class girl in the city where her parents also live, though really how often does that happen, considering the present company on this site. It's hard to argue that you are keeping someone away from her parents when the girl in question got on a bus to Pattaya months before you even met her.)

Edited November 25, 2013 by WinnieTheKhwai

[attrayant]

As FiftyTwo stated in post #2, several countries' laws trump Thai laws for its citizens anywhere, wherever the former's laws are more restrictive.

Example: in the early-to-mid 2000s, U.S. AG Ashcroft established a new policy, warning that any American citizen anywhere, regardless of local laws, would be charged with Pedophilia-related crimes if he or she had sex with someone under the age of 18.

As far as I know, no succeeding AG has ever rescinded the policy, nor has anyone so-charged ever appealed their conviction up to the SCOTUS.

Can you provide a cite? I've not heard of this. I know that he wrote an appeal to the ninth circuit court in 2001, but that was on the issue of kiddie porn. The USAG's office (which belongs to the executive branch of the US Government) does not have the authority to create new laws - although I'm aware you didn't say law, you said policy. But if it's not a law, but merely a policy, how is it enforced?

And what about the 30 or so states where the age of consent is presently 16? How does the USAG's office feel about that?

I don't think the thread needs to be shut down, as long as we don't post advice on how to circumvent the law and so long as we can hold a discussion like adults without the juvenile name calling (cockroaches? perverts? really?). If you find the topic that distasteful, then perhaps you shouldn't be participating in the discussion.

Edited November 25, 2013 by attrayant

[SeabagsFull]

Can you provide a cite? I've not heard of this. I know that he wrote an appeal to the ninth circuit court in 2001, but that was on the issue of kiddie porn. The USAG's office (which belongs to the executive branch of the US Government) does not have the authority to create new laws - although I'm aware you didn't say law, you said policy. But if it's not a law, but merely a policy, how is it enforced?

And what about the 30 or so states where the age of consent is presently 16? How does the USAG's office feel about that?

I don't think the thread needs to be shut down, as long as we don't post advice on how to circumvent the law and so long as we can hold a discussion like adults without the juvenile name calling (cockroaches? perverts? really?). If you find the topic that distasteful, then perhaps you shouldn't be participating in the discussion.

Sorry, attrayant, but I cannot. In my post #44 of this thread, I acknowledged that I too am confused by the apparent contradiction between what I heard then-USAG Ashcroft say & the fact that several U.S. states have laws designating sexual-consent as legal for ages less than 18 years.

The following linked article, last updated 10-02-2013, seems to clarify the federal statue as follows: "Federal law makes it criminal to engage in a sexual act with another person who is between the age of 12 and 16 if they are at least four years younger than you.":

http://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/statutory-rape-the-age-of-consent.html

More restrictive state statutory rape laws, of course, trump less inhibitive federal laws.

Regarding former John Ashcroft's speech, as USAG he often took a more aggressive approach to issues he was passionate about. In fact, a common GOP tactic being pushed by Fox News' puppet-masters et. al. at the time was to harass, arrest, & simply make life miserable for *.* [insert name here], & not worry about whether or not specific cases got dismissed in court. The idea was to bully perceived deviates (i.e., anyone disagreeing with their views) into being too afraid to speak up.

As to your plea for the moderators to leave the topic open, note that the Thought Police are not only monitoring this thread but may well have been behind the OP to begin with. Like you, I believe in freedom of thought & verbal expression. While we've made much progress, we still don't live in that kind of world do we?

[WinnieTheKhwai]

the Thought Police are not only monitoring this thread but may well have been behind the OP to begin with.

LOL, sure but I don't mind what the original motivation was; it's still a good and controversial topic to discuss. I do note the OP didn't give a lot of background to the question. If I just stereotype him based on what I know is the Thaivisa demographic then the only answer really is '18'. Done.

There was nothing in the OP to hint at anything else, for example a young adult in a genuine relationship with a 17 year old girl. In that case parental consent makes all the difference, and this would be legitimized by a small / informal ceremony that involves a blessing. There will likely be pictures of that ceremony (there were plenty in mine) which shows parental consent. This puts you in the clear with Thai law, but potentially not with the laws of your own country. Even if you're from the place where the age of consent is 16 you may still not be in the clear for example in the US where there exists a law that makes it a crime to travel across state or country borders to seek sex with a minor (<18). Note that sex doesn't need to take place, the intent to travel is enough. So this would apply if you met the 17 year old on some internet site, you know, the Omegles, Camfrogs, Badoos and all those of this world, not to mention Facebook and a billion dating sites. If you then travelled to Thailand to see her, you have committed a crime, even if you never actually as much as see her, and even if it wasn't a 17 year old after all but a 50 year old cop posing as one.

This does not apply if you can prove (and the burden of proof for some reason seems to be reversed in this case) that you travelled to Thailand for other reasons, and only later met the 17 year old and got into a relationship. The law seems specifically designed to facillitate entraptment scenarios, which may be fair enough; pedos need to be caught after all, and getting pedos who actually abused minors convicted is hard enough. With an entrapment scenario there is no challenge getting testimony from the law enforcement officer posing as a minor. This makes for a much easier conviction, even of people who never actually abused anyone but could have / would have. (Cue: Minority Report)

Again though, virtually nobody reading this would be in that scenario, as most people on this site tend to be older and unlikely to get into a genuine relationship with a 17 year old. (If not genuine (i.e. a commercial relationship) then of course Thai law kicks in, where anything under 18 is too young.)

Final thought: there really is no shortage of 18+ people in Thailand. And looking at the demographics and the birth rate these days (which is LOWER in Thailand than most Western nations), there will be fewer young people to go around. It's all a bit hypothetical. Still interesting to debate, but very hypothetical.

Edited November 26, 2013 by WinnieTheKhwai

[quiuvo]

the Thought Police are not only monitoring this thread but may well have been behind the OP to begin with.

LOL, sure but I don't mind what the original motivation was; it's still a good and controversial topic to discuss. I do note the OP didn't give a lot of background to the question. If I just stereotype him based on what I know is the Thaivisa demographic then the only answer really is '18'. Done.

There was nothing in the OP to hint at anything else, for example a young adult in a genuine relationship with a 17 year old girl. In that case parental consent makes all the difference, and this would be legitimized by a small / informal ceremony that involves a blessing. There will likely be pictures of that ceremony (there were plenty in mine) which shows parental consent. This puts you in the clear with Thai law, but potentially not with the laws of your own country. Even if you're from the place where the age of consent is 16 you may still not be in the clear for example in the US where there exists a law that makes it a crime to travel across state or country borders to seek sex with a minor (<18). Note that sex doesn't need to take place, the intent to travel is enough. So this would apply if you met the 17 year old on some internet site, you know, the Omegles, Camfrogs, Badoos and all those of this world, not to mention Facebook and a billion dating sites. If you then travelled to Thailand to see her, you have committed a crime, even if you never actually as much as see her, and even if it wasn't a 17 year old after all but a 50 year old cop posing as one.

This does not apply if you can prove (and the burden of proof for some reason seems to be reversed in this case) that you travelled to Thailand for other reasons, and only later met the 17 year old and got into a relationship. The law seems specifically designed to facillitate entraptment scenarios, which may be fair enough; pedos need to be caught after all, and getting pedos who actually abused minors convicted is hard enough. With an entrapment scenario there is no challenge getting testimony from the law enforcement officer posing as a minor. This makes for a much easier conviction, even of people who never actually abused anyone but could have / would have. (Cue: Minority Report)

Again though, virtually nobody reading this would be in that scenario, as most people on this site tend to be older and unlikely to get into a genuine relationship with a 17 year old. (If not genuine (i.e. a commercial relationship) then of course Thai law kicks in, where anything under 18 is too young.)

Final thought: there really is no shortage of 18+ people in Thailand. And looking at the demographics and the birth rate these days (which is LOWER in Thailand than most Western nations), there will be fewer young people to go around. It's all a bit hypothetical. Still interesting to debate, but very hypothetical.

I'm the OP and I had no other interest than to acquire knowledge. And to wrap up the talk with my friend. I have no interest in getting involve with underage females. I never had. Thank you all for the information.

[aveabeeror2]

One person needed a question answered, one person had an answer and 134 people need to get a hobby, read a book, or somethinng to occupy their minds.

[eldragon]

are you a pervet or jusy a kiddy fiddler?

in regards of this question?

I love how it's assumed the OP is some kind of sick phedo. It's totally possible he's 19 or 20 and met a girl that's 16 or 17, which is fairly normal and acceptable here, as it is in most parts of the world. In fact, only in the most conservative parts of USA would someone looks down on a man at this age dating a girl that's still in high-school.

[thailiketoo]

are you a pervet or jusy a kiddy fiddler?

in regards of this question?

I love how it's assumed the OP is some kind of sick phedo. It's totally possible he's 19 or 20 and met a girl that's 16 or 17, which is fairly normal and acceptable here, as it is in most parts of the world. In fact, only in the most conservative parts of USA would someone looks down on a man at this age dating a girl that's still in high-school.

In the most conservative areas of the USA that is Deep South, they are all married by that age.

[aveabeeror2]

are you a pervet or jusy a kiddy fiddler?

in regards of this question?

I love how it's assumed the OP is some kind of sick phedo. It's totally possible he's 19 or 20 and met a girl that's 16 or 17, which is fairly normal and acceptable here, as it is in most parts of the world. In fact, only in the most conservative parts of USA would someone looks down on a man at this age dating a girl that's still in high-school.

In the most conservative areas of the USA that is Deep South, they are all married by that age.

Two more

[thailiketoo]

are you a pervet or jusy a kiddy fiddler?

in regards of this question?

I love how it's assumed the OP is some kind of sick phedo. It's totally possible he's 19 or 20 and met a girl that's 16 or 17, which is fairly normal and acceptable here, as it is in most parts of the world. In fact, only in the most conservative parts of USA would someone looks down on a man at this age dating a girl that's still in high-school.

In the most conservative areas of the USA that is Deep South, they are all married by that age.

Two more

Three more.

[Travel2003]

are you a pervet or jusy a kiddy fiddler?

in regards of this question?

I love how it's assumed the OP is some kind of sick phedo. It's totally possible he's 19 or 20 and met a girl that's 16 or 17, which is fairly normal and acceptable here, as it is in most parts of the world. In fact, only in the most conservative parts of USA would someone looks down on a man at this age dating a girl that's still in high-school.

In the most conservative areas of the USA that is Deep South, they are all married by that age.

Yes, to someone in their own family even.

joke aside

General comment:

It is very important we all understand the difference between liking younger ones, or being a Pedo.

[Travel2003]

Do you like do dress her up in a schoolgirl uniform at age of 30?

50 million grown up Japanese men do.

It is a Lolita thing. Nothing to do with Pedo.

For the record: Not my style though.

I was fortunate enough that my now wife still dressed in the uniform when we met.

So no need for dress-ups.

She played the Prison Guard (in uniform) and you played the....?

Sorry pal, I could not resist.

Absolutely No harm meant.

[attrayant]

This is what I can find: http://www.justice.gov/criminal/ceos/citizensguide/citizensguide_trafficking.html

Citizen's Guide to U.S. Federal Law on the Extraterritorial Sexual Exploitation of Children

18 U.S.C. § 2423(d): Travel with intent to engage in illicit sexual conduct

18 U.S.C. § 2423©: Engaging in illicit sexual conduct in foreign places

18 U.S.C. § 2423(d): Ancillary Offenses

18 U.S.C. §§ 2251© and 2260(a): Production of Child Pornography outside the United States

18 U.S.C. § 1591: Sex Trafficking of children by force, fraud, or coercion

18 U.S.C. § 1596: Additional jurisdiction in certain trafficking offenses

/snip/

For all of these statutes, a child is considered to be anyone under the age of 18.

So 18 it is. I snipped out a lot of text; those who are interested in the letter of the law can follow the link.

[FiftyTwo]

This is what I can find: http://www.justice.gov/criminal/ceos/citizensguide/citizensguide_trafficking.html

Citizen's Guide to U.S. Federal Law on the Extraterritorial Sexual Exploitation of Children

18 U.S.C. § 2423(d): Travel with intent to engage in illicit sexual conduct

18 U.S.C. § 2423©: Engaging in illicit sexual conduct in foreign places

18 U.S.C. § 2423(d): Ancillary Offenses

18 U.S.C. §§ 2251© and 2260(a): Production of Child Pornography outside the United States

18 U.S.C. § 1591: Sex Trafficking of children by force, fraud, or coercion

18 U.S.C. § 1596: Additional jurisdiction in certain trafficking offenses

/snip/

For all of these statutes, a child is considered to be anyone under the age of 18.

So 18 it is. I snipped out a lot of text; those who are interested in the letter of the law can follow the link.

Only for Americans.

Age of consent in the UK is 16.

Age of consent in France 15.

Luckily for most of us America doesn't rule the world (yet).

Edited November 26, 2013 by FiftyTwo

[attrayant]

Of course. I didn't think I needed to point that out since the quoted text says pretty clearly "U.S. federal law..."

[brewsterbudgen]

This is what I can find: http://www.justice.gov/criminal/ceos/citizensguide/citizensguide_trafficking.html

Citizen's Guide to U.S. Federal Law on the Extraterritorial Sexual Exploitation of Children

18 U.S.C. § 2423(d): Travel with intent to engage in illicit sexual conduct

18 U.S.C. § 2423©: Engaging in illicit sexual conduct in foreign places

18 U.S.C. § 2423(d): Ancillary Offenses

18 U.S.C. §§ 2251© and 2260(a): Production of Child Pornography outside the United States

18 U.S.C. § 1591: Sex Trafficking of children by force, fraud, or coercion

18 U.S.C. § 1596: Additional jurisdiction in certain trafficking offenses

/snip/

For all of these statutes, a child is considered to be anyone under the age of 18.

So 18 it is. I snipped out a lot of text; those who are interested in the letter of the law can follow the link.

Only for Americans.

Age of consent in the UK is 16.

Age of consent in France 15.

Luckily for most of us America doesn't rule the world (yet).

The age of consent may be 16 in the UK, but for offences like child pornography, prostitution, trafficking etc., any victim aged under 18 is a considered a child.

[FiftyTwo]

The age of consent may be 16 in the UK, but for offences like child pornography, prostitution, trafficking etc., any victim aged under 18 is a considered a child.

Not sure what that has to do with anything. This thread is about the legal age of consent in Thailand.

And the UK has no interest in chasing men having sex with 16 year olds in Thailand, paid or not.

Jerry Lee Lewis did have a problem in 1958 when he brought his 13 year old American wife over to the UK during a concert tour.

But I agree, Britain now has some very strange 'pornography' laws.

In the UK you can have sex with your 16 year old girlfriend legally (anywhere in the world), but take a photo of her naked on your mobile phone and you become a paedophile.

Edited November 26, 2013 by FiftyTwo

[WinnieTheKhwai]

I was fortunate enough that my now wife still dressed in the uniform when we met.

So no need for dress-ups.

She played the Prison Guard (in uniform) and you played the....?

She played the KTB service engineer and I played the ATM.

[brewsterbudgen]

The age of consent may be 16 in the UK, but for offences like child pornography, prostitution, trafficking etc., any victim aged under 18 is a considered a child.

Not sure what that has to do with anything. This thread is about the legal age of consent in Thailand.

And the UK has no interest in chasing men having sex with 16 year olds in Thailand, paid or not.

Jerry Lee Lewis did have a problem in 1958 when he brought his 13 year old American wife over to the UK during a concert tour.

But I agree, Britain now has some very strange 'pornography' laws.

In the UK you can have sex with your 16 year old girlfriend legally (anywhere in the world), but take a photo of her naked on your mobile phone and you become a paedophile.

Actually a British man caught and charged for underage sex in Thailand may well have problems back home. Child prostitution or rather having paid for sex with a child, is not something that the UK authorities would have no interest in. However, I agree that they probably wouldn't chase anyone outside the UK for it.

[Water Buffalo]

are you a pervet or jusy a kiddy fiddler?

in regards of this question?

I love how it's assumed the OP is some kind of sick phedo. It's totally possible he's 19 or 20 and met a girl that's 16 or 17, which is fairly normal and acceptable here, as it is in most parts of the world. In fact, only in the most conservative parts of USA would someone looks down on a man at this age dating a girl that's still in high-school.

In the most conservative areas of the USA that is Deep South, they are all married by that age. alt=biggrin.png width=20 height=20>

Yes, to someone in their own family even.

width=20 alt=biggrin.png>

joke aside

General comment:

It is very important we all understand the difference between liking younger ones, or being a Pedo.

Why is it very important? So, i don't call someone a pedo for liking 12 year olds (who have started puberty)??

Personally, i think Hebephilia is sick too. If i were to fall into this category, i would seriously consider counseling.

And, in my opinion, if a person's sexual preference is determined by age, and if that age is preferred to be as young as legally possible, then there may be a problem.