A.B.S.

[transam]

 

Eh? I don't have the first clue of your post meaning? Rather cryptic and convoluted.

 

salient

ˈseɪlɪənt/

adjective

adjective: salient

most noticeable or important.

"it succinctly covered all the salient points of the case"

synonyms: important, main, principal, major, chief, primary, notable, noteworthy, outstanding, arresting, conspicuous, striking, noticeable, obvious, remarkable, signal, prominent, pronounced, predominant, dominant, key, crucial, vital, essential, basic, staple, critical, pivotal, prime, central, focal, paramount More

 

 

 

Your in the wrong forum chummy. Do you need directions....................

[Kwasaki]

 

 

 

 

Me think's everyone is missing the point here or Ace is on another wind up, ABS was invented for ordinary road driver as a safety feature as long as they are instructed correctly in a ABS model then yes the ABS will pull up quicker than if they were in a non-ABS model. comprende.   

 

 Kwakers , a year after it came available here, the Ministry for Silly Things put signs up saying beware of ABS, its not a Licence to Drive Faster.!!  As with most Gadgets here, Thais believed all the Handling Bollocks as well, and their Trucks fall over just the same, but at   a higher speed..My ABS  never gets used, i try to avoid confrontation, except for here. 

 

 

Your still missing the point the ordinary driver in the wet or dry will stop quicker than in a non-ABS motor I never said anything about it becoming available in Thailand I just said some who is instructed to use it.

 

If the wheels skid they are not stopping as quick as a not skid wheel, simple as that.

 

Forced to agree, we're speaking on parallel tracks here.. The driver issue was left out of the OP so the discussion has taken up 2 different directions there is a lot of accurate posts here but they contradict each other due to the driver experience equation being left out and that is always going to be an unpredictable factor in general overall for obvious reasons..

 

Not so in wet conditions though Kwasaki, for a short period I raced my Integra TypeR with ABS as it was legal to do so and it was unmatched in braking in the wet, also ran  a 190 Merc too, it was a tank but stopped on a dime, especially in the rain, stock classes and brakes for those who think it may not apply. I could do some amazing overtakes and saves like I've never been able to do on my own.. This also has a caveat however as not all ABS systems are equal by any means which is another monkey wrench thrown into the discussion..

 

 

That's what I was trying to say about peeps missing the point.

 

As OP writes " Replying to ABS " as I have said it's better for the ordinary driver.

 

My ABS bodywork is easily replaced when or if I hit something too.    

[VocalNeal]

"Wheel speed" is determined by what besides engine RPM's and gearing? Grip levels also change with tire width..

I think wheel speed is determined by measuring the wheel speed  (But don't quote me) Has to be because each wheel maybe on a surface with different friction characteristics.

 

The giant wheel diameter theory has some merit because the system will release brake pressure in a controlled manner until wheel rotation is achieved. But I would think the greater wheel diameter would play into the hands of the ABS because the amount of hydraulic force required to lock the wheels would be greater. So even a small reduction of force at the brake disk would cause a larger wheel to resume rotation sooner. Unless of course the grip level of the tires fitted to said larger wheels is actually lower than the stock tires?

 

So I would go out on a limb here and say the grip of the after market tires under braking is actually less than the stock ones.

[WarpSpeed]

^Well Neal the tires size can act as a gear slowing the rotation (in the case of larger diameter) and providing more forward rolling grip in the dry, so you've partially hit it, the other factor is that in the wet at least a wider truck tire especially, will definitely break traction sooner as it has more rubber contact and less fluid moving capacity through tread, truck tires are known for lost traction in the wet and hydroplaning, I.E. a slick, therefore conversely because of size and grip levels in the dry they'll break traction more easily as well.. Seems a contradiction I know but the same thing occurs for different reasons in both wet and dry.

Edited December 1, 2013 by WarpSpeed

[WarpSpeed]

 

 

Eh? I don't have the first clue of your post meaning? Rather cryptic and convoluted.

 

salient

ˈseɪlɪənt/

adjective

adjective: salient

most noticeable or important.

"it succinctly covered all the salient points of the case"

synonyms: important, main, principal, major, chief, primary, notable, noteworthy, outstanding, arresting, conspicuous, striking, noticeable, obvious, remarkable, signal, prominent, pronounced, predominant, dominant, key, crucial, vital, essential, basic, staple, critical, pivotal, prime, central, focal, paramount More

 

 

 

Your in the wrong forum chummy. Do you need directions....................

 

 

[IMHO]

Looks like this thread has gone downhill already, but..

 

These days most better cars have EBA (Emergency Brake assist) which detects sharp braking and applies substantial additional braking force. Doesn't matter how good you are at heavy braking in older cars without this feature, as soon as you have this, you need ABS.

[VocalNeal]

I think it is the car behind that will need the ABS .

 

Some idiot looks up from a mobile phone or playing with the stereo and panic brake for no real reason. The the car automatically stops faster also for no reason and the poor guy behind being aware of the general traffic conditions will be caught out because the car in front stops quicker for no apparent reason.

[transam]

The evolution of the motor car mechanicals. First the auto trans, then power steering and the disk brake, then ABS. ABS, something devised to make a ride safer for Mr & Mrs Average to take care of skid/lock up situations. It works, I believe all new vehicles in the UK must have ABS, that is how good it is.

[Ace of Pop]

Jaguar had a warning sign years ago saying Disc Brakes.. I dab my ASB on if i remember on muddy tracks just. to hear the noise, never hear them otherwise fortunately.

[Spoonman]

Jaguar had a warning sign years ago saying Disc Brakes.. I dab my ASB on if i remember on muddy tracks just. to hear the noise, never hear them otherwise fortunately.

 

What ?

[Ace of Pop]

If You Google  Disk Brake Warning Sign for Jaguars, just down the page  Images show Gangsters Paradise, have a most interesting site on a Red Jag...Brings back a few memories to us Crumblin Folk anyway.

[Spoonman]

If You Google  Disk Brake Warning Sign for Jaguars, just down the page  Images show Gangsters Paradise, have a most interesting site on a Red Jag...Brings back a few memories to us Crumblin Folk anyway.

 

I googled "Disk Brake Warning Sign for Jaguars" and scrolled thousands of images and did not see anything but Jaguars and disc rotors. ..... am I doing something wrong ?

Edited December 1, 2013 by Spoonman

[Ace of Pop]

Try and google Gangsters Pardise .Jaguar Cars. That works. Nice read,try it one and all.

[bobfish]

O.K. Identical Trucks,same Geometry and Tires /Compound on a Dry Road , straight line from 125 to 0.. Whos the Winner.?. Il go for the non ABS........... Flat Spots expected, and rear tires adding very little to help the situation.

 

Let's take the test scenario further: measure the ABS equipped stopping distance. Now, go stand in that same spot for the Non ABS truck's test.

 

 

Flat spots? basic physics: wheel locked, static friction less than dynamic = longer distance....

[Commander Tamson]

Are there no engineers on this thread? Very basic physics/dynamics : rolling friction is far greater than sliding friction. So as soon as the wheels lock , the friction between the tyre and road drops significantly and the car will actually speed up. Before ABS was banned in most classes of Motorsport, drivers, for the first time, could brake on corners. It had to be done skilfully of course. As for the ABS fitted to production cars, don't compare diamonds with cut glass - you get what you pay for. A car fitted with [properly functioning] ABS will always brake better and safer than the same car without. Duh! Edit. - sorry Bobfish. Just seen your post Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app Edited December 1, 2013 by Commander Tamson

[MMarlow]

O.K. Identical Trucks,same Geometry and Tires /Compound on a Dry Road , straight line from 125 to 0.. Whos the Winner.?. Il go for the non ABS........... Flat Spots expected, and rear tires adding very little to help the situation.

 

There's something seriously wrong with the pick-up tyres if one emergency stop from 125 flat-spots them.

[WarpSpeed]

Are there no engineers on this thread? Very basic physics/dynamics : rolling friction is far greater than sliding friction. So as soon as the wheels lock , the friction between the tyre and road drops significantly and the car will actually speed up. Before ABS was banned in most classes of Motorsport, drivers, for the first time, could brake on corners. It had to be done skilfully of course. As for the ABS fitted to production cars, don't compare diamonds with cut glass - you get what you pay for. A car fitted with [properly functioning] ABS will always brake better and safer than the same car without. Duh! Edit. - sorry Bobfish. Just seen your post Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I guess you didn't see ANY of my posts either? The real trick without ABS is threshold braking, ABS is what happens AFTER you exceed the threshold and the ABS needs to prevent tire lock up but thanks for the observation anyways..

[VocalNeal]

Are there no engineers on this thread? Very basic physics/dynamics : rolling friction is far greater than sliding friction. So as soon as the wheels lock , the friction between the tyre and road drops significantly and the car will actually speed up. Before ABS was banned in most classes of Motorsport, drivers, for the first time, could brake on corners. It had to be done skilfully of course. As for the ABS fitted to production cars, don't compare diamonds with cut glass - you get what you pay for. A car fitted with [properly functioning] ABS will always brake better and safer than the same car without. Duh! Edit. - sorry Bobfish. Just seen your post Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

 

Another question would be are there any "drivers" on this thread.

 

If one drives within the limits of the vehicle than one should never get into the situation where one needs ABS. If racing on a closed course then sure one can exploit the benefits of ABS (if allowed) to allow very late braking into a corner, but on a public roads? If one lives in a cold country where black ice can appear at any time then maybe but in Thailand? Oh "what about sand on the road?", I hear the cry, but if one lives near the beach then expecting sand on the road is the sign of an aware driver. 

 

Riding a bike helps. It makes one pay attention to the condition of the road surface. 

 

 

 

[Commander Tamson]

Are there no engineers on this thread? Very basic physics/dynamics : rolling friction is far greater than sliding friction. So as soon as the wheels lock , the friction between the tyre and road drops significantly and the car will actually speed up. Before ABS was banned in most classes of Motorsport, drivers, for the first time, could brake on corners. It had to be done skilfully of course. As for the ABS fitted to production cars, don't compare diamonds with cut glass - you get what you pay for. A car fitted with [properly functioning] ABS will always brake better and safer than the same car without. Duh! Edit. - sorry Bobfish. Just seen your post Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I guess you didn't see ANY of my posts either? The real trick without ABS is threshold braking, ABS is what happens AFTER you exceed the threshold and the ABS needs to prevent tire lock up but thanks for the observation anyways..

Hi WarpSpeed. I did see some of your posts before sending out mine - I think I clicked a few Likes too. I don't think the average Joe is interested in threshold braking unless of course they're boy racers - it takes massive concentration. Okay for emergency stops (if no ABS), but like I said if the ABS on your car is top class, then IMHO even the best drivers can't match it.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[harrry]

 

 

 

Depends on tyre pressures.................... ...................

 

mmm,........ so F1 teams don't have their tyre pressures set correctly ?
 

 

 

When you have been reading here for a while you will see the joke................

 

Oh! I forgot to mention it also varies whether it's nitrogen or air...

 

And whether it is hot air  or not

[harrry]

 

 

 

Depends on tyre pressures.................... ...................

 

mmm,........ so F1 teams don't have their tyre pressures set correctly ?
 

 

 

When you have been reading here for a while you will see the joke................

 

Oh! I forgot to mention it also varies whether it's nitrogen or air...

 

And whether it is hot air  or not

[Commander Tamson]

The fitting of ABS to most production cars must have saved countless lives and accidents over the years. I watched a little Nissan March lock up its brakes the other day; the driver couldn't control skid and off it went into a ditch. Had to be write off. ABS would have prevented that!


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[transam]

 

Are there no engineers on this thread? Very basic physics/dynamics : rolling friction is far greater than sliding friction. So as soon as the wheels lock , the friction between the tyre and road drops significantly and the car will actually speed up. Before ABS was banned in most classes of Motorsport, drivers, for the first time, could brake on corners. It had to be done skilfully of course. As for the ABS fitted to production cars, don't compare diamonds with cut glass - you get what you pay for. A car fitted with [properly functioning] ABS will always brake better and safer than the same car without. Duh! Edit. - sorry Bobfish. Just seen your post Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

 

Another question would be are there any "drivers" on this thread.

 

If one drives within the limits of the vehicle than one should never get into the situation where one needs ABS. If racing on a closed course then sure one can exploit the benefits of ABS (if allowed) to allow very late braking into a corner, but on a public roads? If one lives in a cold country where black ice can appear at any time then maybe but in Thailand? Oh "what about sand on the road?", I hear the cry, but if one lives near the beach then expecting sand on the road is the sign of an aware driver. 

 

Riding a bike helps. It makes one pay attention to the condition of the road surface. 

 

 

 

 

 

Have you ever driven on ice ???? I have and the ABS works overtime. Works well on muddy roads where perhaps two wheels are in the shit and two are not, not to mention wet roads.

In my life I have driven a zillion miles, many in heavy goods vehicles with air brakes, had some scary moments in those. I have had one accident in my life where I wiped out a Citroen, reason, roadworks mud on the road, the car would not stop. If it had ABS it probably would have.

 

PS. I was found not guilty in court for that. Long story.
 

[Ace of Pop]

 

 

Are there no engineers on this thread? Very basic physics/dynamics : rolling friction is far greater than sliding friction. So as soon as the wheels lock , the friction between the tyre and road drops significantly and the car will actually speed up. Before ABS was banned in most classes of Motorsport, drivers, for the first time, could brake on corners. It had to be done skilfully of course. As for the ABS fitted to production cars, don't compare diamonds with cut glass - you get what you pay for. A car fitted with [properly functioning] ABS will always brake better and safer than the same car without. Duh! Edit. - sorry Bobfish. Just seen your post Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

 

Another question would be are there any "drivers" on this thread.

 

If one drives within the limits of the vehicle than one should never get into the situation where one needs ABS. If racing on a closed course then sure one can exploit the benefits of ABS (if allowed) to allow very late braking into a corner, but on a public roads? If one lives in a cold country where black ice can appear at any time then maybe but in Thailand? Oh "what about sand on the road?", I hear the cry, but if one lives near the beach then expecting sand on the road is the sign of an aware driver. 

 

Riding a bike helps. It makes one pay attention to the condition of the road surface. 

 

 

 

 

 

Have you ever driven on ice ???? I have and the ABS works overtime. Works well on muddy roads where perhaps two wheels are in the shit and two are not, not to mention wet roads.

In my life I have driven a zillion miles, many in heavy goods vehicles with air brakes, had some scary moments in those. I have had one accident in my life where I wiped out a Citroen, reason, roadworks mud on the road, the car would not stop. If it had ABS it probably would have.

 

PS. I was found not guilty in court for that. Long story.
 

 

Worked well on 4WD Fords with the 60/ 40 drive bias., fair zoomed down forrest tracks in any condition. Memories again.

[Spoonman]

Another question would be are there any "drivers" on this thread.
 
If one drives within the limits of the vehicle than one should never get into the situation where one needs ABS. If racing on a closed course then sure one can exploit the benefits of ABS (if allowed) to allow very late braking into a corner, but on a public roads? If one lives in a cold country where black ice can appear at any time then maybe but in Thailand? Oh "what about sand on the road?", I hear the cry, but if one lives near the beach then expecting sand on the road is the sign of an aware driver. 
 
Riding a bike helps. It makes one pay attention to the condition of the road surface.

You are forgetting there is traffic on the public roads that will often require emergency braking..... ABS can be of assistance here as well.

[stevenl]

 

Another question would be are there any "drivers" on this thread.
 
If one drives within the limits of the vehicle than one should never get into the situation where one needs ABS. If racing on a closed course then sure one can exploit the benefits of ABS (if allowed) to allow very late braking into a corner, but on a public roads? If one lives in a cold country where black ice can appear at any time then maybe but in Thailand? Oh "what about sand on the road?", I hear the cry, but if one lives near the beach then expecting sand on the road is the sign of an aware driver. 
 
Riding a bike helps. It makes one pay attention to the condition of the road surface.

You are forgetting there is traffic on the public roads that will often require emergency braking..... ABS can be of assistance here as well.

 

And even attentive drivers make mistakes and let their attention wane. Just 1 second is more than enough to potentially need an emergency stop.

[MMarlow]

 

Are there no engineers on this thread? Very basic physics/dynamics : rolling friction is far greater than sliding friction. So as soon as the wheels lock , the friction between the tyre and road drops significantly and the car will actually speed up. Before ABS was banned in most classes of Motorsport, drivers, for the first time, could brake on corners. It had to be done skilfully of course. As for the ABS fitted to production cars, don't compare diamonds with cut glass - you get what you pay for. A car fitted with [properly functioning] ABS will always brake better and safer than the same car without. Duh! Edit. - sorry Bobfish. Just seen your post Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

 

Another question would be are there any "drivers" on this thread.

 

If one drives within the limits of the vehicle than one should never get into the situation where one needs ABS. If racing on a closed course then sure one can exploit the benefits of ABS (if allowed) to allow very late braking into a corner, but on a public roads? If one lives in a cold country where black ice can appear at any time then maybe but in Thailand? Oh "what about sand on the road?", I hear the cry, but if one lives near the beach then expecting sand on the road is the sign of an aware driver. 

 

Riding a bike helps. It makes one pay attention to the condition of the road surface. 

 

 

 

 

 

Probably no drivers of your standard, one thinks.

Of course you are forgetting that one may come across a wet road as a result of rain and one may also find occasionally that pedestrians step out in front of one, dogs sometimes cause one to have to use ones brakes harshly.  It is not unknown for the vehicle in front of one to stop suddenly causing one to have to stop suddenly also.  Neither is it unknown for the vehicle in front of one, that one is overtaking, to suddenly pull out in front of one again causing one to have to operate ones brakes in a manner that causes ones ABS to operate.  One could go on but one won't.

[Ace of Pop]

 

 

Are there no engineers on this thread? Very basic physics/dynamics : rolling friction is far greater than sliding friction. So as soon as the wheels lock , the friction between the tyre and road drops significantly and the car will actually speed up. Before ABS was banned in most classes of Motorsport, drivers, for the first time, could brake on corners. It had to be done skilfully of course. As for the ABS fitted to production cars, don't compare diamonds with cut glass - you get what you pay for. A car fitted with [properly functioning] ABS will always brake better and safer than the same car without. Duh! Edit. - sorry Bobfish. Just seen your post Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

 

Another question would be are there any "drivers" on this thread.

 

If one drives within the limits of the vehicle than one should never get into the situation where one needs ABS. If racing on a closed course then sure one can exploit the benefits of ABS (if allowed) to allow very late braking into a corner, but on a public roads? If one lives in a cold country where black ice can appear at any time then maybe but in Thailand? Oh "what about sand on the road?", I hear the cry, but if one lives near the beach then expecting sand on the road is the sign of an aware driver. 

 

Riding a bike helps. It makes one pay attention to the condition of the road surface. 

 

 

 

 

 

Have you ever driven on ice ???? I have and the ABS works overtime. Works well on muddy roads where perhaps two wheels are in the shit and two are not, not to mention wet roads.

In my life I have driven a zillion miles, many in heavy goods vehicles with air brakes, had some scary moments in those. I have had one accident in my life where I wiped out a Citroen, reason, roadworks mud on the road, the car would not stop. If it had ABS it probably would have.

 

PS. I was found not guilty in court for that. Long story.
 

 

Nice Post T.A. Someone who has Driven Zillions, and not Pinged Paper Clips round Offices all his life , like many Experts here.

[Kwasaki]

 

 

 

Are there no engineers on this thread? Very basic physics/dynamics : rolling friction is far greater than sliding friction. So as soon as the wheels lock , the friction between the tyre and road drops significantly and the car will actually speed up. Before ABS was banned in most classes of Motorsport, drivers, for the first time, could brake on corners. It had to be done skilfully of course. As for the ABS fitted to production cars, don't compare diamonds with cut glass - you get what you pay for. A car fitted with [properly functioning] ABS will always brake better and safer than the same car without. Duh! Edit. - sorry Bobfish. Just seen your post Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

 

Another question would be are there any "drivers" on this thread.

 

If one drives within the limits of the vehicle than one should never get into the situation where one needs ABS. If racing on a closed course then sure one can exploit the benefits of ABS (if allowed) to allow very late braking into a corner, but on a public roads? If one lives in a cold country where black ice can appear at any time then maybe but in Thailand? Oh "what about sand on the road?", I hear the cry, but if one lives near the beach then expecting sand on the road is the sign of an aware driver. 

 

Riding a bike helps. It makes one pay attention to the condition of the road surface. 

 

 

 

 

 

Have you ever driven on ice ???? I have and the ABS works overtime. Works well on muddy roads where perhaps two wheels are in the shit and two are not, not to mention wet roads.

In my life I have driven a zillion miles, many in heavy goods vehicles with air brakes, had some scary moments in those. I have had one accident in my life where I wiped out a Citroen, reason, roadworks mud on the road, the car would not stop. If it had ABS it probably would have.

 

PS. I was found not guilty in court for that. Long story.
 

 

Nice Post T.A. Someone who has Driven Zillions, and not Pinged Paper Clips round Offices all his life , like many Experts here.

 

 

I have claim to being an expert.  

[VocalNeal]

Have you ever driven on ice ????

I used to live on the hump of Superior, so yes I drove on ice for at least 5 months plus of the year, before the advent of ABS. I have even experienced square wheels!

I am not trying to be the best keyboard driver on here. Just trying to say that if one drives within the limits of the vehicle.... ABS is irrelevant.

By the way how much ice have you seen here in Thailand? Stupid response! Edited December 2, 2013 by VocalNeal