Thailand added to Irish Visa Waiver Programme

[Mario2008]

Thailand added to Irish Visa Waiver Programme

The Minister for Justice and Equality, Alan Shatter, TD, recently announced that, from Monday, 18 November, citizens of Thailand are now able to avail of the Irish Short-stay Visa Waiver Programme. Based on current experience with other visa waiver countries in Asia, this is likely to prove a significant boost to efforts to attract more visitors to Ireland from Thailand.

Pattaya Mail

13 December 2013.

See more at: http://www.pattayamail.com/localnews/thailand-added-to-irish-visa-waiver-programme-32977#sthash.atV1uKNG.dpuf

[mickjn]

Great move

[Alwyn]

Cool. I wonder if the UK did the same it would help boost tourism figures? Certainly make it easier for a lot of people here who want to go home for a holiday with the missus!!

[jpinx]

read the small print before you get excited,,,,,,

.....This allows visitors or businesspeople from seventeen countries who have lawfully entered the UK, including Northern Ireland, on a valid UK visa, to travel on to Ireland without the requirement to obtain an Irish visa.....

[AsiaCheese]

Correct me if I'm wrong - but isn't Ireland somehow in the Schengen thing too? You get one visa for the "Schengen area" and it lets you roam across a large number of borders! But (here comes the glitch): you still need one visa, and in most Schengen-associated countries, that's almost harder to get than a license to print money...

[7by7]

Neither the UK nor the RoI are in the Schengen area, so a Schengen visa is not valid for either country.

Neither is an Irish or a UK visa valid for the Schengen area.

[jpinx]

Correct me if I'm wrong - but isn't Ireland somehow in the Schengen thing too? You get one visa for the "Schengen area" and it lets you roam across a large number of borders! But (here comes the glitch): you still need one visa, and in most Schengen-associated countries, that's almost harder to get than a license to print money...

No - Ireland is not in the Schengen group of countries. All this is about is that a Thai (for example) visitor to UK can now go to Ireland without a visa.

In other words Ireland is relying on the UK's visa requirements.

[Jay Sata]

Full details here http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/PR11000006

[Mike T]

It's not as good as it seems.

It only applies to people who already have a tourist visa to the UK.

If you want to go directly to Ireland on a tourist visa, you still have to go through the draconian application process where you have to submit reams of paperwork to prove you have a reason to return to thailand. I've refused to allow my partner to go through the humiliation of having to submit bank records, letters from employers, birth certs of her children and a copy of the deeds to her house, just to get permission to go for a 2 week holiday to see my family.

Easier by far, and a lot nicer for my family, to bring them to thailand to meet her.

[phitsanulokjohn]

Cool. I wonder if the UK did the same it would help boost tourism figures? Certainly make it easier for a lot of people here who want to go home for a holiday with the missus!!

Yes of course it would,but the UK government would be paranoid the Thai would disappear into some Thai restaurant,for a little bit of cash in hand never to return again.

[Ulic]

read the small print before you get excited,,,,,,

.....This allows visitors or businesspeople from seventeen countries who have lawfully entered the UK, including Northern Ireland, on a valid UK visa, to travel on to Ireland without the requirement to obtain an Irish visa.....

It's always that damed fine print.

[james68]

Ireland and the UK are a common travel area, a sort of mini schengen area. This agreement has worked very well for an age and there is no chance of either entering the schengen proper. I'm disappointed we don't just install a reciprocal agreement granting 30 days on arrival.. At present it is the easiest thing in the world to go between north and south.. There is no border control.. You hardly even know you've crossed it. Anyone with a UK visa can get across that way as is. Nobody's papers are ever checked in the south. The police only ever stop you if you're driving.. And that is check for car tax. I will write to the minister and request a reciprocal agreement. You never know? We the tourist revenue.

[theoldgit]

Off topic posts removed.

[iainiain101]

Does this make it possible for a Thai visitor to the UK say on a five year visitor visa to do a 'visa run' to Ireland at the end of their 6 months and then return immediately to the UK?

A bit like a lot of people do in Thailand with visa runs?

[theoldgit]

Does this make it possible for a Thai visitor to the UK say on a five year visitor visa to do a 'visa run' to Ireland at the end of their 6 months and then return immediately to the UK?

A bit like a lot of people do in Thailand with visa runs?

No, you are only supposed to spend a maximum of six months in any twelve in the UK on a Visit Visa.

Whilst that is a convention and not actually law, you might have a hard time convincing an IO at The UK Border that you were a genuine visitor if you attempted this too often.

That said, I'm not sure what border controls there are between the UK and Ireland, either way it would, in my view, be risky to try.

[7by7]

The UK and RoI form a common travel area and, unless travelling between the two countries by air, it is unlikely that you will see an immigration officer or other border control when crossing from one to the other. But both countries do carry out random checks at land crossings and sea ports.

If you entered the Republic and then tried to re-enter the UK and did pass through UK immigration, either because you fly or you are stopped for a random check, then, as theoldgit says, you could fall foul of the '6 months out of 12' convention and most likely be refused admission.

If you entered the republic and then returned to the UK without passing through any border or immigration control then there would be no record that you had ever left the UK. So according to all records you would be an overstayer.

[Water Buffalo]

Great! Britain will never go for this though.

[iainiain101]

The UK and RoI form a common travel area and, unless travelling between the two countries by air, it is unlikely that you will see an immigration officer or other border control when crossing from one to the other. But both countries do carry out random checks at land crossings and sea ports.

If you entered the Republic and then tried to re-enter the UK and did pass through UK immigration, either because you fly or you are stopped for a random check, then, as theoldgit says, you could fall foul of the '6 months out of 12' convention and most likely be refused admission.

If you entered the republic and then returned to the UK without passing through any border or immigration control then there would be no record that you had ever left the UK. So according to all records you would be an overstayer.

When are there ever any records of visitors leaving the UK? I thought we had done away with the Border Agency checking departures fom the UK?

My Mrs allways makes sure she gets a stamp in her passport at the next country she goes to on departure from the UK to prove she has not overstayed, and keeps the airline boarding cards.

So, if you arrived in ROI and asked for a stamp, technically you could go back to the UK for 6 months and have proof you had not overstayed?

[7by7]

But if you entered the Republic without passing through Irish immigration then you would not have an Irish entry stamp in your passport. You couldn't ask for one as there would be no one to ask!

I suppose your wife could fly to Ireland to get the Irish entry stamp and then return to the UK via land or ferry, hoping there wont be a random check by UK immigration.

But all of that seems a complicated way of using long term visit visa to bypass the settlement rules; with the added risk of being caught out.

Why not do it properly and obtain settlement? She then wouldn't need to ensure she gets an entry stamp from her destination every time she leaves the UK and wouldn't risk being refused entry to the UK because she falls foul of the '6 months out of 12' convention.

[james68]

There is effectively no border checks between North and South from my experience. Finding someone to stamp you in if coming over land would be awkward. Maybe a police station.? And finding someone to stamp you when returning to the North?

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[jpduggan]

Correct me if I'm wrong - but isn't Ireland somehow in the Schengen thing too? You get one visa for the "Schengen area" and it lets you roam across a large number of borders! But (here comes the glitch): you still need one visa, and in most Schengen-associated countries, that's almost harder to get than a license to print money...

OK I'll correct you! You're wrong and we are not.

[james68]

Correct me if I'm wrong - but isn't Ireland somehow in the Schengen thing too? You get one visa for the "Schengen area" and it lets you roam across a large number of borders! But (here comes the glitch): you still need one visa, and in most Schengen-associated countries, that's almost harder to get than a license to print money...

OK I'll correct you! You're wrong and we are not.

..

The main reason neither Ireland or Britain joined the schengen ,is to my mind, that we don't have ID cards...you are not required to prove who you are and a police man cannot ask for ID without a extremely good reason. I have never been asked once in either of the two countries. Schengen visitors be impossible to monitor..

I reckon you could live in Ireland your entire life visa free and nobody would ever question you unless you got in trouble for a road traffic offence or some such..

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[7by7]

The UK didn't join because, as you sort of say, the government felt that, being an island, border controls are a better way of controlling illegal immigration than other, more intrusive methods such as ID cards, residence cards or registration with the police.

The RoI didn't join as they felt it was better for their citizens if they maintained the common travel area with the UK, which would be impossible had they joined the Schengen area and the UK not.

The UK, though, is signed up to other parts of The Schengen agreement; such as police and judicial cooperation.

A request from the RoI to participate likewise was approved by the Council of the European Union in 2002, but has yet to be put into effect by the Irish government.

It is, of course, possible for an illegal immigrant to live in any country indefinitely; as long as they do not come to the notice of the authorities.

[james68]

Perhaps the UK and Ireland should join and have a common visa policy with the rest of the Europe. It would life a lot easier.

You would have the added advantage of traveling with a Thai visitor to other European destinations hassle free. It would make a great trip back. But that's only wishful thinking for the moment.

It's a shame that the Irish don't reciprocate and allow 30 days on arrival, even if only on a trial period.

Thailand had shown us good faith by not including us on the 17 country list they are considering charging for the 30 on arrival. We should return the favour.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Jay Sata]

Perhaps the UK and Ireland should join and have a common visa policy with the rest of the Europe..

You have to understand the politics that go back over a century to appreciate that will never happen.

The anti English feeling runs deep. Just listen to the songs in a Temple Bar or Finglas pub on a Saturday night.

We are just two years away from the centenary of the 1916 Rising and events in O'Connell St.

Eire has what is best described as a truce with the UK which will probably take another generation or two before history is forgotten.

In the mean time I'd suggest anyone who has an Irish (Six Counties or Eire) parent or grandparent make use of their ancestry to get their partner home via the back door. Irish immigration officers are not like their English counterparts and have more latitude and compassion.

There is no queue outside the immigration office in Burgh Quay, Dublin so you can walk in although there will be a wait in the warm.

http://www.inis.gov.ie/

Edited December 22, 2013 by Jay Sata

[7by7]

So, Mr Sata, according to you the Republic of Ireland didn't join the Schengen area, which doesn't include the UK, because of anti English feelings and the history between Eire and the UK, ignoring the fact that the Common Travel Area between the UK and the RoI dates back to 1923 and the Irish Free State!

The position of both the RoI and the UK regarding the Schengen area have already been explained and are easily checked. See "The participation of Ireland and the United Kingdom" on this page from the EU commission for example.

I see that yet again you are pushing Irish citizenship as a way of by passing the UK immigration rules; totally forgetting, as usual, the changes to regulation 2 of the EEA regulations following the McCarthy judgement; implemented by the UK w.e.f. 16/7/12.

If you are going to give people immigration advice it is vital that you stay up to date.

Edited December 23, 2013 by 7by7

[james68]

I think the notion that there is wide spread anti English feeling in Ireland isn't true in my experience. Sure you have some but these are not representative. They are just more vocal and therefore more visible. Most of them follow English football clubs, shop in Tesco's and have wife's who are just as obsessive as any English woman about coronation street. Some people just love wallowing in victimhood and should be just left alone because their views are hardwired?

Interestingly enough a poll done a few years back in England showed 80% approval for Irish unity, much more than in Ireland itself. The Greece/Cyrus 12 point eurovision certainty that Terry Wogan used to make fun of.. is even starting to happen with Ireland and the UK. It sounds a bit silly but I think its a good sign.

I hope that a 30 day visa free entry for Thailand is on the cards for the whole British Isles..even make it in conjunction with a refundable bond and compulsory health insurance to weed out abusers.

I understand the need for vigilance on immigration. The immigration problem is front page news every other day...and what I mean by problem is non nationals who intend to reside as opposed to visit and cost the state more than they contribute. Thai girlfriends to my mind don't fall in that category.

I would just like to go back on holiday once a year and show her where I'm from and to remind myself why I decided to live in Asia and spend a little money, without too much bureaucratic codswallop.

Regarding the Irish passport, if you have an Irish grandparent you are entitled to it. Many US, Canadian, Aussie and Kiwis utilise their entitlement..it grants freedom to work anywhere in the EU.. Why we have restrictions on people who originate from the British Isles and force them to do this doesn't make sense to me either..

[7by7]

James, as both the RoI and the UK are members of the EU and the EEA, the freedom of movement rights enjoyed by Irish citizens are also enjoyed by British ones.

As the million plus British citizens living in other EEA states will confirm.

However, the EEA freedom of movement regulations do not apply if an EEA national wants to travel to or live in the country of which they are a citizen with their non EEA national family members.

So an Irish citizen who wishes to live in or visit Ireland with their, for example, Thai wife needs to satisfy the requirements of the Irish immigration rules; a British citizen the UK immigration rules, a French citizen the French immigration rules and so on.

Edit: It is, of course, the Thai wife who needs to satisfy the rules, not the citizen!

Unless, of course, they qualify under the Surinder Singh ruling.

If by "I would just like to go back on holiday once a year and show her where I'm from" you mean the UK, then it is possible for her to have a longer term visit visa to the UK, up to 10 years. She could still only spend a maximum of 6 months in the UK per visit and, usually, no more than 6 months out of any 12 in the UK, but it would negate the need for her to apply every time you want to visit. It is, though, unlikely that she would be granted one on her first application, but if she has visited the UK before, adhered to her visa conditions and the two of you are well established in Thailand then it is possible.

See VAT1.4 Visa validity - What period for a multiple entry visit visa?

If you mean Ireland, then I don't know if there is a similar type of long term visit visa for the Republic. Doubtless our resident Irish visa expert will be able to advise.

Edited December 23, 2013 by 7by7

[Jay Sata]

So, Mr Sata, according to you the Republic of Ireland didn't join the Schengen area, which doesn't include the UK, because of anti English feelings and the history between Eire and the UK, ignoring the fact that the Common Travel Area between the UK and the RoI dates back to 1923 and the Irish Free State!

The position of both the RoI and the UK regarding the Schengen area have already been explained and are easily checked. See "The participation of Ireland and the United Kingdom" on this page from the EU commission for example.

I see that yet again you are pushing Irish citizenship as a way of by passing the UK immigration rules; totally forgetting, as usual, the changes to regulation 2 of the EEA regulations following the McCarthy judgement; implemented by the UK w.e.f. 16/7/12.

If you are going to give people immigration advice it is vital that you stay up to date.

I'm an Irish citizen who travels back and forth between the UK and Dublin.

Can I just ask you one question regarding your 'expertise' on the rules regarding Eire and it's policy on spouse visa's?

(90% are approved and are free of charge to applicants)

Have you ever been to the Republic or visited the immigration office near the Halfpenny Bridge?

I am happy to discuss the topic but I hope you are not quoting from internet search engines?

[7by7]

Yes, I have visited the Republic, but as my wife has been a British citizen for nearly 10 years and I have been since birth we have had no need to visit any Irish immigration office.

Not that it's relevant because I am neither commenting on nor advising about the Irish immigration rules for spouses in this topic; though in another I have asked you questions about same; questions you have yet to answer.

I did quote the EEA regulations with regard to those who are citizens of two or more EEA states.

I notice that you haven't commented on the last paragraph of my previous post

If you mean Ireland, then I don't know if there is a similar type of long term visit visa for the Republic. Doubtless our resident Irish visa expert will be able to advise.

Do you know the answer or not?

Based upon the quality of the 'advice' you have posted in other topics, I suspect that you don't.

Edited December 25, 2013 by 7by7