Child murderer apologizes to Nong Cartoon’s parents

[canuckamuck]

What they should have done was allow the parents to participate in the execution.

[MaxLee]

"The alcohol did it,... the nasty nasty alcohol,... and now please give me mercy. mercy bail, because people will forget anyway in a whim of a couple of months."

[ginjag]

If Thai Buddhisim teaches calmness, forgiveness etc. why do so many people carry guns and don't hesitate to use them ?

Many only listen to the teachings when it suits them or when they are obligated to go to the temple with family. Carrying weapons is the norm for many young Thais to DEFEND themselves--same US with guns they have them to shoot anyone who tries to shoot them.

Apology taken note but never accepted, he didn't steal a flower out of the garden <deleted>. Isolation away from his loved ones -NO GOOD for punishment, he didn't have any, he was a fairground traveler/style on the run.

Locked away for life is near the only way. (but instinct tells me to have him put down ) no pain just as quickly as poss and cremated. within the walls of the jail.

[ginjag]

When I read convicts who use the alcohol thing as the reason for what they did is sick. To me you have to have this within your person already waiting to explode, so alcohol is one way to bring it to the surface. But they are arseho#es before alcohol.

[DLock]

I would gladly take care of this of behalf of the family myself if I had the chance.

[hookedondhamma]

If Thai Buddhisim teaches calmness, forgiveness etc. why do so many people carry guns and don't hesitate to use them ?

Thais are not angels but human like everyone else, and just because many are born into Buddhism here does mean they are upright Buddhist.

Basically, demeanor goes a long way. Labels not so much.

Seriously everytime I read posts linking thais and buddhism together as if they were polished examples of his teachings I cringe.

That goes for supposedly Christian countries and their citizens as well.

[mojorison]

I would gladly take care of this of behalf of the family myself if I had the chance.

Yeah me too. Wouldn't give it a second thought.

[DocN]

All the typical reactions by WASP readers who do not understand the Buddhism here. Hate, revenge, desire for violence, wishing ill-will upon someone.

The man has committed a crime and cannot escape the karma which will bring him much suffering, in this life and the next.... satisfied?

By hating and wishing for him to suffer...you only create bad karma for yourself....a bad kind of mindset to have.

The father of the child is also wrong to have no forgiveness in his heart.

Oh, that is interesting!

What about: I don't give a f$#% about that?

[hookedondhamma]

All the typical reactions by WASP readers who do not understand the Buddhism here. Hate, revenge, desire for violence, wishing ill-will upon someone.

The man has committed a crime and cannot escape the karma which will bring him much suffering, in this life and the next.... satisfied?

By hating and wishing for him to suffer...you only create bad karma for yourself....a bad kind of mindset to have.

The father of the child is also wrong to have no forgiveness in his heart.

Buddhist, Christian or Satanist, apparently you have no children.

Actually, I believe he does have children. And what he wrote earlier displays how much thai cultural values have changed. Many years ago before all the materialism thais had a better understanding of karma. The actions we take all contribute to our karma, in this immediate, next or future lifetimes. By accepting the things which happen and either forgiving or using equanimity we can slow down and begin to stop that cycle.

These days many don't hold that principle any more; because if they don't see it in the here and now they get impatient. They want it now. They chase after what they think makes them happy only to find out it causes more suffering. The older thais and isaan lao I speak with about this know thT change is normal ... and it isn't always for the best, unfortunately.

No doubt this man's actions are dirty and immoral. And I don't believe one bit he is sorry. But making a spectacle out of this by having him use the kaw kamma ceremony isn't exactly the best way to go about it. At the end of the day the decision lies with the parents as to whether or not they will forgive him, and this murderer has to live with the fact that what he has done will stay with him in this lifetime, and possibly torment him in others.

I don't think Fred was trying to scold or criticize anyone. He is someone who quite well understands topics on such matters and does not take the thai version of candy-coating the truth.

[klauskunkel]

All the typical reactions by WASP readers who do not understand the Buddhism here. Hate, revenge, desire for violence, wishing ill-will upon someone.

The man has committed a crime and cannot escape the karma which will bring him much suffering, in this life and the next.... satisfied?

By hating and wishing for him to suffer...you only create bad karma for yourself....a bad kind of mindset to have.

The father of the child is also wrong to have no forgiveness in his heart.

From what I have experienced in Thailand, the Buddhism here is all about money...

What you apparently don't understand is that this creature has forfeited it's humanity by it's own fee will, and therefore human laws, values and considerations do not apply to it anymore.

[huangnon]

The real tragedy is that this POS only served 3 years for rape and attempted murder (he strangled a girl and left her for dead), before he was released to continue the inevitable.

Seems that he might actually be a prolific serial-killer.. At least Nong Cartoon's parents have some closure.

[geriatrickid]

As much as the accused is cause for concern, some of the proponents on this thread of lynching/torture/rape concern me more. Mobs hell bent for blood are not in a position to argue the subject of justice. If this mentally ill man is guilty, then the court will pass judgement accordingly. Thailand does have the death penalty. If drug trafficers can be executed, I would expect that the death penalty would be requested in this case. Aside from satisfying some people's blood lust, I would expect that the community will be safer as this alleged serial rapist/killer will not be able to hurt anyone else.

I do find the anger somewhat puzzling. We all know of the child prostitute brothels, and we all know about the violent/porn porn that makes its way out of Thailand involving people of questionable ages and intellectual capabilities. And yet, many people are less moved to speak out. Unfortunately, such activity promotes the erosion of taboos that discourage violent sexual crimes. Something to munch on.

[ginjag]

All the typical reactions by WASP readers who do not understand the Buddhism here. Hate, revenge, desire for violence, wishing ill-will upon someone.

The man has committed a crime and cannot escape the karma which will bring him much suffering, in this life and the next.... satisfied?

By hating and wishing for him to suffer...you only create bad karma for yourself....a bad kind of mindset to have.

The father of the child is also wrong to have no forgiveness in his heart.

Buddhist, Christian or Satanist, apparently you have no children.

Actually, I believe he does have children. And what he wrote earlier displays how much thai cultural values have changed. Many years ago before all the materialism thais had a better understanding of karma. The actions we take all contribute to our karma, in this immediate, next or future lifetimes. By accepting the things which happen and either forgiving or using equanimity we can slow down and begin to stop that cycle.

These days many don't hold that principle any more; because if they don't see it in the here and now they get impatient. They want it now. They chase after what they think makes them happy only to find out it causes more suffering. The older thais and isaan lao I speak with about this know thT change is normal ... and it isn't always for the best, unfortunately.

No doubt this man's actions are dirty and immoral. And I don't believe one bit he is sorry. But making a spectacle out of this by having him use the kaw kamma ceremony isn't exactly the best way to go about it. At the end of the day the decision lies with the parents as to whether or not they will forgive him, and this murderer has to live with the fact that what he has done will stay with him in this lifetime, and possibly torment him in others.

I don't think Fred was trying to scold or criticize anyone. He is someone who quite well understands topics on such matters and does not take the thai version of candy-coating the truth.

The fact that this guy ( complete S##t) has to WHAT ?? live with this for the rest of his life-what he did ?? he was living with it during his last murders, and it didn't bother him then, so why would it now--has this last one woke him up to his senses. NO NO WAY. Karma forget it, you live you die, no matter what you get up to. when your gone you are gone, no one has returned to inform us different. Too many ancient books we had to read---did without them in early mans days, in the forests, in the deserts, mountains, they survived without Karma-religious teachings that's why we are here now.

[newermonkey]

My opinion in this case is he should be force feed estrogen and undergo a female sex change opp.

In other words "castrate the pig".

[newermonkey]

The real tragedy is that this POS only served 3 years for rape and attempted murder (he strangled a girl and left her for dead), before he was released to continue the inevitable.

Seems that he might actually be a prolific serial-killer.. At least Nong Cartoon's parents have some closure.

He probably only served 3 years because he was costing the prison authorities money, If he had a relative buying his food & keep in jail for him then he would have stayed a lot longer.

FYI - if you ever are placed in a Thai jail don't allow anyone to pay money to the food vendors around the jail because its a racket that will keep you in longer.

If the prison is forced (obliged) to give you food etc.. they will want to get you out asap.

(The food vendors are all prison workers relatives, making a good income from prisoners supporters).

[hookedondhamma]

All the typical reactions by WASP readers who do not understand the Buddhism here. Hate, revenge, desire for violence, wishing ill-will upon someone.

The man has committed a crime and cannot escape the karma which will bring him much suffering, in this life and the next.... satisfied?

By hating and wishing for him to suffer...you only create bad karma for yourself....a bad kind of mindset to have.

The father of the child is also wrong to have no forgiveness in his heart.

Buddhist, Christian or Satanist, apparently you have no children.

Actually, I believe he does have children. And what he wrote earlier displays how much thai cultural values have changed. Many years ago before all the materialism thais had a better understanding of karma. The actions we take all contribute to our karma, in this immediate, next or future lifetimes. By accepting the things which happen and either forgiving or using equanimity we can slow down and begin to stop that cycle.

These days many don't hold that principle any more; because if they don't see it in the here and now they get impatient. They want it now. They chase after what they think makes them happy only to find out it causes more suffering. The older thais and isaan lao I speak with about this know thT change is normal ... and it isn't always for the best, unfortunately.

No doubt this man's actions are dirty and immoral. And I don't believe one bit he is sorry. But making a spectacle out of this by having him use the kaw kamma ceremony isn't exactly the best way to go about it. At the end of the day the decision lies with the parents as to whether or not they will forgive him, and this murderer has to live with the fact that what he has done will stay with him in this lifetime, and possibly torment him in others.

I don't think Fred was trying to scold or criticize anyone. He is someone who quite well understands topics on such matters and does not take the thai version of candy-coating the truth.

The fact that this guy ( complete S##t) has to WHAT ?? live with this for the rest of his life-what he did ?? he was living with it during his last murders, and it didn't bother him then, so why would it now--has this last one woke him up to his senses. NO NO WAY. Karma forget it, you live you die, no matter what you get up to. when your gone you are gone, no one has returned to inform us different. Too many ancient books we had to read---did without them in early mans days, in the forests, in the deserts, mountains, they survived without Karma-religious teachings that's why we are here now.

Yes, what he did - as in all of his activities - even the ones we don't know of yet (by activities I mean 'murders' and other awful acts).

notice how I wrote that I didnt believe he was sorry one bit - obviously because of the fact he yas done it before and before, and also notice how I wrote the ceremony wasn't in the best means (by means I mean that it does seem a big show).

Different cultures have/have had different practices throughout history.

[LomSak27]

They always do the apology thing - sorry not always lots of the time.

No clue why as everyone knows the apology is BS done for PR

[cup-O-coffee]

This is another example of why I believe the meaningless, superstitious, sick and twisted ceremonies, which exist in Thai society and culture, defies the natural evolution of decency as it relates to human nature.

It degrades an innocent human being (the murdered child), and further humiliates the already humiliated family member, who made this all possible (the irresponsible and equally guilty father), whilst granting an almost "noble" public dignity to an animal (the child murderer).

Using this appalling example of behavior, it is almost as if Thais seem to glorify and bask in ceremony; to the extent that they willfully choose to disassociate themselves with well-adjusted human nature, and instead lend dignity to animals (whether these animals ambulate on all fours or walk upright) and go on in their existences to humiliate and degrade the rights and constitutions of anyone who exercises the ability to behave as a decent human being.

Translated: It doesn't pay in Thailand to exercise the ability to behave as a decent human being, and then to expect to be treated with respect and dignity, and then to be able to get ahead.

My disgust over this public display of lunacy has no bottom.

[EyesWideOpen]

As much as the accused is cause for concern, some of the proponents on this thread of lynching/torture/rape concern me more. Mobs hell bent for blood are not in a position to argue the subject of justice. If this mentally ill man is guilty, then the court will pass judgement accordingly. Thailand does have the death penalty. If drug trafficers can be executed, I would expect that the death penalty would be requested in this case. Aside from satisfying some people's blood lust, I would expect that the community will be safer as this alleged serial rapist/killer will not be able to hurt anyone else.

I do find the anger somewhat puzzling. We all know of the child prostitute brothels, and we all know about the violent/porn porn that makes its way out of Thailand involving people of questionable ages and intellectual capabilities. And yet, many people are less moved to speak out. Unfortunately, such activity promotes the erosion of taboos that discourage violent sexual crimes. Something to munch on.

Well looks like the " hang him high" crowd is running in some pretty good company. Namely Thomas

Jefferson ( who wrote the America Declaration of Independence ) , arguably one of the most astute men to have ever walked the planet in matters regarding the role of government in society. Here is his view on people who commit crimes.

http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/documents/amendVIIIs10.html

"....government would be defective in it's principal purpose were it not to restrain such criminal acts, by inflicting due punishments on those who perpetrate them...."

"Whosoever shall commit murder in any other way shall suffer death by hanging."

Regarding this " ceremony " , it appears to me to be the height of lunacy. I can scarcely imagine the

pain the father would feel by being in the same room as the killer of his daughter. Were I in that

situation, I know what I would do...... Regard karma, that only works for behavior control if

people actually believe it. Meaning fear of a bad karma will direct you to do the proper thing. No one

wants to come back as a cockroach or as Chalerm. But if that fear is gone, which in Thailand it appears it has, then

that control over bad behavior disappears.

Edited December 18, 2013 by EyesWideOpen

[binjalin]

If Thai Buddhisim teaches calmness, forgiveness etc. why do so many people carry guns and don't hesitate to use them ?

Because Thais are not Buddhists

[binjalin]

So this man rapes and kills and he's allowed to meet the parents and say "sorry"??? THAT is disgusting

[EyesWideOpen]

If Thai Buddhisim teaches calmness, forgiveness etc. why do so many people carry guns and don't hesitate to use them ?

Because Thais are not Buddhists

I have often thought that. If you actually read the five precepts of Buddhism, and then look at Thai society

as a whole, there is not a whole lot of following going on.... :-)

[cup-O-coffee]

If Thai Buddhisim teaches calmness, forgiveness etc. why do so many people carry guns and don't hesitate to use them ?

Because Thais are not Buddhists

I have often thought that. If you actually read the five precepts of Buddhism, and then look at Thai society

as a whole, there is not a whole lot of following going on.... :-)

Agreed! Buddhism is an ideal for any truth seeker to endeavor to reach as a goal in life, yet to never be able to actually reach, or self-actualize. It is a shiny bauble that Thais use to cast a veil over what being Thai is, and I quote from another post of mine:

"As I am certain you could not do that, and as it is evident that Thais have been fighting it out since the beginning of these kinds of elections, then I can only surmise that Thais have a character defect in their cultural and societal indoctrination which forbids them from developing, and instead doing everything they can to corrupt and degrade everything good that comes their way from outside sources, including (but not limited to) even those foreign ideals that they refuse to embrace, but rather instead plagiarize in an effort to appear like the rest of the world."

"To be Thai is to embrace self - To avoid accountability and responsibility when it suits one's own purposes - To lie when necessary - To demonstrate a lack of restraint and self-discipline when any slight triggers an emotion, and at that, to do so without any constructive or rational reasoning - to curry support from ignorant people in order to further one's own selfish ambitions and delusions and to demonstrate utter lack of regret, remorse or guilt before, during and after - and on and on ad-nausea."

Buddhism, in essence, is good, but fails miserably when it is forced to co-exist with evil, simply on the basis that it is vulnerable to being abused, controlled and manipulated by evil people. This is true of all religions. The only solution is to abandon religion and seek to correct the nature of mankind until evil is purged. The problem there is that no one man is good enough to be able to do so, and to purge mankind of evil is an endeavor that which is vulnerable to being abused, controlled and manipulated by evil people.

A conundrum, it is.

It seems odd that Thais sometimes like to take their trash out and burn it because it attracts rats, infestations and disease; yet they allow child rapists and murderers to apologize publicly and scrape out a bit of subconscious dignity in doing so.

Maybe before burning the trash, the Thais should have a ceremony and thank the trash for being trash. Or, simply dispense with burning the trash, and release it back out into public after keeping it their trash bins for a time.

[Dogmatix]

What this guy needs (or needed) is what he should have received in the first place, and that is help for his clearly severe mental health problems, something the Thai authorities bury their heads in the sand about as it implies that Thai society may not be as pure as they love to portray.

Had he have received or had attention paid to his psychopathy then he'd probably not have been free to have committed this outrage in the first place.

It is time Thailand started to recognise mental health issues as a factor in crime and anti social behaviour.

.

You are very right but this would cost money and might also mean they would have to bang up many of their politicians and other poo yai types.

[DLock]

As much as the accused is cause for concern, some of the proponents on this thread of lynching/torture/rape concern me more. Mobs hell bent for blood are not in a position to argue the subject of justice. If this mentally ill man is guilty, then the court will pass judgement accordingly. Thailand does have the death penalty. If drug trafficers can be executed, I would expect that the death penalty would be requested in this case. Aside from satisfying some people's blood lust, I would expect that the community will be safer as this alleged serial rapist/killer will not be able to hurt anyone else.

I do find the anger somewhat puzzling. We all know of the child prostitute brothels, and we all know about the violent/porn porn that makes its way out of Thailand involving people of questionable ages and intellectual capabilities. And yet, many people are less moved to speak out. Unfortunately, such activity promotes the erosion of taboos that discourage violent sexual crimes. Something to munch on.

Political correct nonsense.

If this was your daughter, you would want to kill him in a very violent way...much like I would (and do).

BTW, I don't know about the "child prostitute brothels, and we all know about the violent/porn porn that makes its way out of Thailand involving people of questionable ages and intellectual capabilities".

[candyman123]

I would kidnap him and take deep into the forest, string him upside down, give him a good battering with a baseball bat....... all over his body and specifically his nuts.
Then poor honey,sugar over his nuts and body for nature to start eating him slowly. "Justice from courts are to good" for pedophiles like him. Give me a call if you know of a pedophile living near you and I'll give them the treatment they all deserve.

[rjcampbe]

All the typical reactions by WASP readers who do not understand the Buddhism here. Hate, revenge, desire for violence, wishing ill-will upon someone.

The man has committed a crime and cannot escape the karma which will bring him much suffering, in this life and the next.... satisfied?

By hating and wishing for him to suffer...you only create bad karma for yourself....a bad kind of mindset to have.

The father of the child is also wrong to have no forgiveness in his heart.

You are absolutely correct, fabianfren.... I feel just terrible about this poor mans karma. He was clearly a victim of some terrible thing he must have done in a past life to be carrying the bad karma that made him do the kind of evil thing that he did.

Under this miraculous thing called karma, we each have to do our best to live according to the buddhist precepts to try to improve our karma so that we can live better in our next life as we work our way toward enlightenment. Since this fella has clearly jacked up his chances this time around, it seems to me that we would all be doing him a favor to help him move on to his next life sooner, so that he might learn his karmic lesson and be a better person next time.

Since we would be helping this poor karmically tourtured person move onward towards nirvana, and would also be doing a good thing for society by ensuring that his evilness does not harm or influence anyone else, I think killing the son-of-a-b*tch would be GOOD karma for whoever did it. I would certainly take the chance...

I find it funny how people invoke the name of karma AFTER they have committed a crime and been caught... But in reality, they no more care about buddhist principles and karma than they do about traffic rules and corruption. It is much like saying you are sorry when your wife catches you fooling around... You are sorry... but not for doing it, just for getting caught.

This is just another example of the fundamental lack of a belief in any kind of intrinsic "right and wrong" that exists in this culture. Everything is relative.

"The code is more what you would call "guidelines" than actual rules."

- Captain Barbossa, Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl

[rjcampbe]

^^ Do you have an objective definition of "wrong"?

Do you have a proof that negative thoughts bring "bad karma" (let's say "bad consequences")?

Each person lives within his own paradigm. There aren't any objective criteria to decide what one should have done, there is only what you personally think would have had the most positive consequences.

Normally, I would be all in for a philosophical debate on right and wrong and the sources of various cultures moral compass... But in this case, I'm not sure exactly what point you are trying to argue...

I may not be able to deliver a single universal objective definition of "wrong" that applies to every situation in life... but as the US Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart said, "I know it when I see it."

I certainly can not imagine any instance where the rape and murder of a child does not fall into the definition of "WRONG".

I would hope that there is no one on this forum that would like to argue the other side of that position...

[rjcampbe]

If Thai Buddhisim teaches calmness, forgiveness etc. why do so many people carry guns and don't hesitate to use them ?

Because Thais are not Buddhists

I have often thought that. If you actually read the five precepts of Buddhism, and then look at Thai society

as a whole, there is not a whole lot of following going on.... :-)

I'm no Buddhist scholar, but I've probably studied more about the philosophy (I don't really see it as a religion) than most people. What I see practiced in Thailand bears little resemblance to anything that Buddha ever taught.

Thai's being Buddhist is just one of the many nationalistic myths that Thais have been indoctrinated into believing.

I wish I could elaborate on others, but alas...

[Scott]

Very few countries actually practice their religion the way it supposed to be practiced. Christian countries certainly don't. Muslim countries don't -- even with stonings and beheadings.