Thai Democrats resolve to boycott February 2 election

[recom273]

Wife's family all over the south and from poor stock. Never got a cetang to vote in a general election. Now Thaksin allowing Hat Yai to drown does make them think who cares,

So now Thaksin is to blame for the weather ?

[whybother]

Does anyone know what is the legal situation regarding an opposition party refusing to participate in a general election? Does this nullify any result even if there is an overwhelming majority for the PTP?

The election can continue as normal. Where there is only one candidate in an electorate, that candidate has to get more than 20% of the vote. (Voters can vote "None of the above".)

Parliament can't be formed if less than 95% of the seats are filled.

In the 2006 election, because there weren't enough seats filled, they couldn't form parliament, which meant that the MPs couldn't elect a PM, and the PM couldn't form government.

And this is exactly the problem. By boycotting the elections, the democrats have the opportunety to frustrate the system due to their popularity in the south. This should have been amended with the 2007 constitution as it is quite clearly wrong. All that is needed is to mandate a lower amount of seats having to be filled (like 70%) and after this have by elections. That way no single political party can willingly frustrate the system.

This is exactly the undemocratic part of the election boycot by the "democrats". They are using their supporters to prevent the democratic system from functioning. Once again they show their complete disregard for people in the north and north-east.

I find it unbelieveable that people that support democracy in general can support this kind of behavior, as any way you look at it, it is undemocratic.

I posted a couple of weeks ago that Thaksin proxy mark III will have learnt from the errors of Thaksin proxy mark I. They won't make the same mistakes as in 2006, and will organise enough candidates to make sure that 95% of the MPs are elected.

Having said that, why is it undemocratic NOT to stand in an election? That would make about 65 million Thais undemocratic.

[myluckythai]

haha so funny

they want an election - they get one - now they don't want one - they say they are "democrats' but don't believe in democracy

PTP and Thaksin must be thanking Buddha there is no sensible opposition and counter manifesto and an inept opposition. A real leader would have exposed the issues and rallied the people all Abhisit can do is say

"I'm not playing and taking my Ball home - so there!!!"

Edit: actually it's not funny at all poor Thailand

well this is a typical thai reaction of dealing with matters i think. Not being able to reason but just stonewalling every sensible attempt to find concensus...too bad

[MrSlatersParrot]

Push has come to shove,

Thaksin via his puppets has played a power game since he first came onto the political scene. Self promotion of his position, his business interests and of course we are all well aware of the nepotism so beloved by the puppet master.

Now his bluff has been called and in reality Thaksin and his family and their brown nosing acolytes are in an electoral and political cul de sac.One way in and one way out. However to achieve an exit a U turn has to be made.

Now who will be in the driving seat when the U turn is made, Thaksin., Yingluck, a National Government as a result or the military?

This is now the final moments of the end game that Thaksin and his P.T.P. and coalition puppets have been playing for the last few years. Indeed the winnings that they are about to receive may well not be to their liking.

Who let the cork out of the bottle in 2010 with their sponsoring and support of the red Shirt movement ?

That particular matter along with the subsequent actions and results have indeed come back to haunt and even taunt Thaksin, the tactics he employed are being used against him now.

What does the future hold now we wonder?

Civil unrest, military coup election cancelled, the establishment of a National Governing Council, the exit of Thaksin and his clan from the political stage, the exit of the Democrats from the political stage or the prospect of the emergence of a despotic dictatorship?

This is it, this is the last chance for Thailand and its people to determine their future. its either a reformed and hopefully a far less corrupt future with cleaner politicians or the option of being crushed under the heel of a new political family dynasty focused on its own end and to hell with Thailand and its peoples.

In reality the problems are not so much a political matter but the conduct and the aims of one creature and his family.The problem being that Thailand and its peoples are the ante being laid in this game of political and personal aims game of chance.

utter nonsense!

2006 Failed coup

2008 Failed coup

2013-2014 failed coup

Dragging the name of Thaksin the bete noir simply shows the paucity of your argument.

fairyland to assume that corruption can be magicked away. More likely it will be red-lined and vanish under the table.

Abhisit and his cronies never had a problem with it when in power now did they?

What is this 'failed coup' three times?

Don't you know only the PM can say three times, ( thank you).

Mr Parrot, why don't the red shirts and Pheua Thai stand on their own feet and put forward their own ideas instead of being willing servants of the corrupt and authoritarian Thaksin- ' Thaksin thinks, Pheau Thai does'

Are they not allowed to have any ideas of their own, must they be so submissive?

they have red shirt villages and they are politically active in re-educating the people of the true state of affairs in Thailand unlike the uneducate bangkokians who just lap up what's dished to them.

The internet (if it's not blocked as under Abhisit) can help with that re-education or rather rebalancing.

[rreddin]

Can't win the election so stall to give Suthep time to force either an interim government election or military coup

so Suthep can install his hand picked council and elections can be eliminated.

The leadership of the Democratic party is not stupid. If there is not a realistic chance of the party being disbanded, they must have been given sufficient gurantees about their future positions to enable them to abandon democracy and disenfranchise their supporters.

[MrSlatersParrot]

The general hate rally cry against Thaksin reminds me of another in history - Hitler and his rally for the country to hate the Jews. Point to a scapegoat for all the country's problems and create a mob. Hate is the heart of a mob's mentality. Truly sad.

I still can't find any solid evidence of what Thaksin did wrong. Can anyone tell me?

I would commend you to invest in an education. The first step for you would be to learn how to search on the internet.

Here is an excerpt from Wikipedia.

"...He was convicted by the Supreme Court's Criminal Division for Holders of Political Positions of abusing his power to help his wife buy public land at an auction, and was sentenced to two years in jail. Various criminal charges await him if he returns to Thailand..."

He also evaded tax by fraudulent share transactions for the sale of Shincorp to another bunch of politicians in Singapore.

How did he help his wife buy public land at an auction?

Did he hold the gavel?

[Carrerakiss]

Unfortunately, this thing won't lie down. It doesn't really matter what side wins, the same lying, cheating, corruption will go on. People just work around all the <deleted> from politicians. But if neither side can win, then the only solution is for the army to step in and then it's back to square one. Endless wrangles over a new constitution as each side tries to get it to favour them, with the public then being told they'll have to vote for it in a referendum because there is no other choice.

Then the politicos start maneuvering to find loopholes in the new constitution, so that who ever is in power can make their power absolute. It's the same old merry go round isn't it?

But as I say, it doesn't matter who is in power in the end, either side will behave the same. Just there'll be a lost 18 months or so while the army enforces a time out.

[gerry1011]

What a bunch of losers

Sent from my HTC One using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[khunsiam]

Suthep has played his hand.

The Dems don't want an election because they know they can't win it.

Therefore he wants chaos.

The people pulling his strings are willing to risk all (read my earlier posts) because the prize is so big.

Who specifically are the "people pulling his strings"?

some of the people behind the 2006 coup, that's what yellow shirts and people from Bangkoks' middle class say, this was all planned out half year ago, I was told about the coming uprising in august. http://thaipoliticalprisoners.wordpress.com/2010/04/08/yellow-academics/

[dukebowling]

The general hate rally cry against Thaksin reminds me of another in history - Hitler and his rally for the country to hate the Jews. Point to a scapegoat for all the country's problems and create a mob. Hate is the heart of a mob's mentality. Truly sad.

I still can't find any solid evidence of what Thaksin did wrong. Can anyone tell me?

I would commend you to invest in an education. The first step for you would be to learn how to search on the internet.

Here is an excerpt from Wikipedia.

"...He was convicted by the Supreme Court's Criminal Division for Holders of Political Positions of abusing his power to help his wife buy public land at an auction, and was sentenced to two years in jail. Various criminal charges await him if he returns to Thailand..."[/size]

He also evaded tax by fraudulent share transactions for the sale of Shincorp to another bunch of politicians in Singapore.[/size]

Thaksin was convicted without a trial or defense from a government destined to find fault. What was the crime? His wife bought an auctioned property. Did he threaten others not to bid? No exact detail anywhere.

Evading taxes did not exist because there was no tax on capital gains at that time. The tax evasion accusation is just that with no legal ramifications. Also at the time, it was legal for foreign investors to hold 49% of a Thai company. This was passed during his regime but proposed earlier in 2001. Many accusations that this was wrong must not be confused with the legality.

Again, anyone have anything?

Edited December 21, 2013 by dukebowling

[Carrerakiss]

Maybe it's time to dissolve this joke of a Democrat party.

They haven't won elections in 23 years and they won't win one anytime soon if they keep up this childish behavior.

Thailand has woken up. The times of a minority ruling a majority are over.

Let's not forget that only a few years ago, Abhisit and his Democrats were brought to power through a military coup.

Why did they not push through with the reforms then? Why did they NOT do it while in power for YEARS?

Good questions, although largely rhetorical because everyone knows the Democrats only want reform in order to get into power, rather than to ensure the people are properly represented in government. When they were in power, there was no need for them to demand reform. Same for the PTP of course.

Have to disagree with disbanding the Dems though. If they were disbanded, and a new party formed, it would just be the same old guys in a new party, so no change really.

I'm afraid there ARE no choices for the Thai people to vote for.

[Loles]

So .... and how do they do it?

Don't run in elections?

Don't go to vote?

these mean the silly red mob will win with 88 %

[Siripon]

Push has come to shove,

Thaksin via his puppets has played a power game since he first came onto the political scene. Self promotion of his position, his business interests and of course we are all well aware of the nepotism so beloved by the puppet master.

Now his bluff has been called and in reality Thaksin and his family and their brown nosing acolytes are in an electoral and political cul de sac.One way in and one way out. However to achieve an exit a U turn has to be made.

Now who will be in the driving seat when the U turn is made, Thaksin., Yingluck, a National Government as a result or the military?

This is now the final moments of the end game that Thaksin and his P.T.P. and coalition puppets have been playing for the last few years. Indeed the winnings that they are about to receive may well not be to their liking.

Who let the cork out of the bottle in 2010 with their sponsoring and support of the red Shirt movement ?

That particular matter along with the subsequent actions and results have indeed come back to haunt and even taunt Thaksin, the tactics he employed are being used against him now.

What does the future hold now we wonder?

Civil unrest, military coup election cancelled, the establishment of a National Governing Council, the exit of Thaksin and his clan from the political stage, the exit of the Democrats from the political stage or the prospect of the emergence of a despotic dictatorship?

This is it, this is the last chance for Thailand and its people to determine their future. its either a reformed and hopefully a far less corrupt future with cleaner politicians or the option of being crushed under the heel of a new political family dynasty focused on its own end and to hell with Thailand and its peoples.

In reality the problems are not so much a political matter but the conduct and the aims of one creature and his family.The problem being that Thailand and its peoples are the ante being laid in this game of political and personal aims game of chance.

utter nonsense!

2006 Failed coup

2008 Failed coup

2013-2014 failed coup

Dragging the name of Thaksin the bete noir simply shows the paucity of your argument.

fairyland to assume that corruption can be magicked away. More likely it will be red-lined and vanish under the table.

Abhisit and his cronies never had a problem with it when in power now did they?

What is this 'failed coup' three times?

Don't you know only the PM can say three times, ( thank you).

Mr Parrot, why don't the red shirts and Pheua Thai stand on their own feet and put forward their own ideas instead of being willing servants of the corrupt and authoritarian Thaksin- ' Thaksin thinks, Pheau Thai does'

Are they not allowed to have any ideas of their own, must they be so submissive?

they have red shirt villages and they are politically active in re-educating the people of the true state of affairs in Thailand unlike the uneducate bangkokians who just lap up what's dished to them.

The internet (if it's not blocked as under Abhisit) can help with that re-education or rather rebalancing.

So come on red shirts, abandon Thaksin, he abandoned you just 2 months ago, he was prepared to forget any prosecution of Apisit or Suthep for their deaths in exchange for his amnesty.

And does any red shirt leader object?

[whybother]

Who else is getting tired of hearing how when anything happens - like the Dems pulling out of the election - it's Thaksin's making?

You might be getting sick of hearing it, but it doesn't mean that it isn't true. The political problems in Thailand since late 2005 have mostly been Thaksin's making.

and you know this because? You're on the inside with special farang privilges? Or you're a Thai from the secret police or becaue you read the newspapers and listen to your wife's family's opinions?

What planet have you been on? Haven't you read anything about Thailand politics in the last 10 years?

[whybother]

They stand united! So far, pretty much everything, they have planned, has worked in their favor. I think, soon it will be "Bye, Bye Miss Yingluck" or Yingluck runs out of luck

...and hello feudalism. Do not decieve yourself, falangs will not do well under the dear leader's plan for a new Thailand.

"hello feudalism"???? Feudalism is alive and well in Thailand. It is how most politicians in Thailand get elected ... from both sides.

[The Dancer]

Ok, so let's analyze the situation. The Dems boycotting the election is no surprise at all. They know they will lose and then have zero credibility with their agenda having gone the democratic route and flopped. So far so good. So what's next?

Obviously, the PTP can't go ahead with the 2/2 elections now because that would simply further inflame the Bangkok street. They have to postpone. There seems to be two possible scenario:

1. The elections are postponed indefinitely (or with a vague 1-year or so deadline) and a military-backed (chosen) interim govt. installed. This is what the Dems want. And, of course, playing games over "people-backed' reforms could keep them from having to face the electorate a long time after that. It would be what might be called a coup in sheep's clothing.

2. Again elections are indefinitely put off but with Yingluck running the interim govt. PTP would be fine with this, basically keeping the status quo.

Obviously, Gen. Pranocha would love to do 1 (especially, from his recent statements) but I am sure he understands that the reds don't like the kind of blood they had to pay with for protesting (relatively) peacefully in 2010. I'll wager there's serious preparation for armed resistance going on in the provinces at this time. They've had a taste of enfranchisement and aren't going to roll over and play dead even if people inside tanks want to take it away from them.

So, methinks it will be 2 but with face-saving measures thrown in for the Dems including an "eminent" council for political reform put in place which will throw sops in both direction. Upshot, Yingluck stays in power, Thaksin stays in Dubai, Suthep kinda sorta got his way, but not really.

What do you think?

Edited December 21, 2013 by The Dancer

[whybother]

Of course it is more than that. Of course how effective has the opposition been, and how can the opposition ever hope to beat the PT when they don't even field candidates in an election.

Reform in a democratic system can only be done when those reforms have a clear electoral mandate, not the way it was done in 2007 when the abolished 1999 constitution was replaced with a less democratic one by a militairy government in a take it or leave it vote.

Why are the democrats hell bend on circumventing the democratic system, instead of using the system to their advantage, and why have they yet to figure out that Thaksin's popularity isn't rooted in vote buying, and that their actions (boycotting elections, trying to ride on a coup) are only making things worse.

Contrary to their own belief, the Thai electorate isn't stupid nor is it uneducated.

Reform is needed in many "democratic" countries where certain parties continue to get majorities. Zimbabwe is an example.

[pisico]

Personally I find a caretaker government that cannot really make any decisions the best solution - no matter who it is. This way the government can still manage the country's day to day affairs, but is prohibited from making major stupid decisions such as wasting fortunes on rice scams or high speed trains. This also reduces government corruption.

I thought the same when the army was in charge after the coup.

In general, with the kind of politicians Thailand has on general, I think it is best for the country when the governmemt does not make any major decisions at all, but just manage day to day affairs.

Long term this is of course not a solution.

QUOTE

"This way the government can still manage the country's day to day affairs, but is prohibited from making major stupid decisions such as wasting fortunes on rice scams or high speed trains."

Once again amnesia seems to afflict those who can only talk of rice pledge scheme or high speed trains.

Why not also add the Palm Oil Scam that Suthep and Abhisit concocted from which Suthep made millions? Add to that the large portion of Pukhet that Suthep amassed while he was Minister of Agriculture having to resign lest he would be indicted. That does not count because it was under Democrat tenure?

That is corruption nevertheless.

No one in Thai politics is lily white. Least of all a wannabee PM like Suthep.

[GeorgeKi]

He doesn't want chaos. He wants reform.

Well he has been in a party that has been in power many times including most recently when he was deputy PM - so why did he not '''reform'' then?

How does the great ''''reformer''' explain the Phuket Land scam or his ''''''''''loan'''''''''''''''''' of B248 million from the state controlled Islamic Bank of Thailand.

He is a totally failed politician who has given up any pretense of being a democratic politician - I do wonder how he intends to repay his loan when his declared assets are only B95 million. A negative net worth of some B150 million - he is going to repay that loan of course........

[jpinx]

iirc in the very recent past Belgium went along quite happily for over a year with no government. Thailand could easily do the same and sort out the constitution in the meantime. No need to be continuously passing new laws - the old ones are just fine

You're assuming the Thais are somewhat reasonable people, who can iron out differences via discussions. That's a BIG assumption.

Indeed - but if pointed out to the military "brokers" they might have a model to work from.

[whybother]

So many people have told me it;s a fact about Thaksin and Suthep is squeaky clean that it must all be true if they say so then. I will change my opinion immediately, I will stop thinking Suthep is a maniac and blame my flatulence on Thaksin

If anyone has told you that Suthep is squeaky clean, they're lying. If you believe them, you're stupid.

[CWMcMurray]

So if Dems don't participate doesn't that just mean that PT will win all of the elections?

Is there any constitutional requirement that makes it necessary for any particular party to participate in order for an election to be valid?

[whybother]

The general hate rally cry against Thaksin reminds me of another in history - Hitler and his rally for the country to hate the Jews. Point to a scapegoat for all the country's problems and create a mob. Hate is the heart of a mob's mentality. Truly sad.

I still can't find any solid evidence of what Thaksin did wrong. Can anyone tell me?

It seems you haven't even bothered looking if you can't find anything.

[northernjohn]

Abhisit and the moderates lose out to the insanity that is Suthep and his backers.

As the political crisis continues to escalate its becoming obvious that Suthep will not stop until there is blood on the streets of Bangkok. There is no way the government is going to give him what he wants, the only way he can get anything like his desired unelected council is if the military conducts another coup. And the only way a coup will happen is to defuse violence street clashes that lead to bloodshed, which would give them a mandate to intervene on behalf of the Thai people.

That being said however this will be the end of the democrats as a threat to the PTP in anything resembling a "one man, one vote" election. They are plunging the country into turmoil just to spite Thaksin and his supporters.

I am no bigger fan of Thaksin than I am of Suthep and as far as I'm concerned they should find a nice quiet place in the desert outside Dubai to have it out, instead of it playing out across the streets of this country and costing the lives of innocent Thai's.

Kind of like saying Yingluck will not go for reform until there is blood on the streets.

quote

"I am no bigger fan of Thaksin than I am of Suthep and as far as I'm concerned they should find a nice quiet place in the desert outside Dubai to have it out, instead of it playing out across the streets of this country and costing the lives of innocent Thai's."

That is the problem Thaksin won't come to Thailand to fight his own battle. The battle is about governing Thailand. Why do you think it can be fought and won or lost on a sand dune? Thaksin has an armed army in the red shirts and mercenaries in the government house and the cabinet. Suthep would gladly stand face to face with him and discus reform in Thailand but that is not what Thaksin wants. He won't be happy until he has Thailand down with Somalia and North Korea in the corruption field.

I live here by choice and it saddens me to see a country torn apart because of one man. Then when a man comes forth to face him he gets condemned. Right or wrong he is trying to help Thailand. We know Thaksin isn't.

When some thing isn't working it should be fixed why do people insist on continually saying leave it alone. If they had a brand new rolls and it had a flat tire would they walk away from it and say leave it be I can't own property here or vote so those of you who can just let it alone.?

[culicine]

Chaos alright....no representatives in the South.....so who is going to vote for a PTP member down there? Would 100 votes to the PTP member give them a mandate to rule in the south? Interesting times ahead...

[whybother]

I wonder why the Democrats ask for reforms but when they were in power with Abhisit and Comrade Suthep they have done nothing of changes to reform the government.

Now they ask for reforms but when they were in power they did nothing. I am sure some Democrat party members will defect to other parties in the next 2-3 weeks because they have a lot of people that are in for the money. Mostly will not defect to PTP but to CTP.

Let the democrats boycott the elections as it is no big deal as they any way will loose big time, including every district in the North and Northeast and they won several last time in 2011. CTP and BJ are the big winners including the small opposition parties currently.

The Democrats did make changes while they were in government. They changed from multi-member constituencies to single-member constituencies.

[whybother]

Maybe it's time to dissolve this joke of a Democrat party.

They haven't won elections in 23 years and they won't win one anytime soon if they keep up this childish behavior.

Thailand has woken up. The times of a minority ruling a majority are over.

Let's not forget that only a few years ago, Abhisit and his Democrats were brought to power through a military coup.

Why did they not push through with the reforms then? Why did they NOT do it while in power for YEARS?

Which "military coup" brought the Democrats to power??

Abhisit came to power in the same way as Somchai did before him.

[Alwyn]

Who else is getting tired of hearing how when anything happens - like the Dems pulling out of the election - it's Thaksin's making?

You might be getting sick of hearing it, but it doesn't mean that it isn't true. The political problems in Thailand since late 2005 have mostly been Thaksin's making.

and you know this because? You're on the inside with special farang privilges? Or you're a Thai from the secret police or becaue you read the newspapers and listen to your wife's family's opinions?

What planet have you been on? Haven't you read anything about Thailand politics in the last 10 years?

yup, survived 12 years of it so far.

[15Peter20]

I am willing to take bets the democrats will do a back flip with pike between now and nomination day.

They will be there in the election, as there is too much to lose for the members. They want their snouts at the trough, albeit at a smaller trough than the government, they will still feel the need to have some power.

Todays announcement is at the request of their backers , who unsuprisingly are Sutheps backers. Just a vane attempt to get a few more on the street tomorrow. If the firework is not lit tomorrow I tend to agree they will be back in the election. March with Suthep, Disown Suthep, back Suthep, it fails tomorrow disown Suthep. Remind me why these honorable Democrats are unelectable

And their backers are 'the people'. Who are making mass donations to Suthep to help achieve this honourable goal.

'Remind me why these honorable Democrats are unelectable'....... Erm... They pulled out of the corrupt Feb 2nd elections.

Just for your own personal clarification. Thank me later.

HaHa - he's calling the constitutionally-endorsed Feb 2nd elections corrupt even before they happen. 10 out of 10 for enthusiasm, that man!

[BlueScouse]

Everyone rattles on here about the Democrats not upholding democracy and the law in Thailand. Do most people here believe Thailand is a democracy, and if so do the current government work in a democratic way? Its a Shinawatra dictatorship, who now have also bought some of the military. The ordinary people of Thailand deserve a better government who work for the people. Something needs to be done.

Who are you to talk about Shinawatra dictatorship maybe you do not known but they work for the people. Did you ever meet any Shinawatra's? Where do you get your ideas about them do you known anyone except me that has meet them?

Work for SOME of the people based on geography. Why do you think the rural poor in the south don't vote for him?

So why don't the southern poor vote for Taksins lot? They get the healthcare, OTOP, ETC.