American Expats: Taxes and US citizenship

[Manassas]

OP,

If your wife has lived with you in the US for 5 years, then she is entitled to received spousal/widow benefits based on your SS contributions, even if she returns to Thailand permanently. However, that regulation has changed in the past and could change in the future, possibly to the detriment of non-resident foreign recipients. Therefore, the strongest claim that she will have to SS benefits would be based on being a US citizen. That's the reason my wife is a US citizen and I recommend citizenship for that reason.

The downside is that she will be taxable to the IRS on her world-wide income for life. It doesn't matter where the income originates, whether in the US, Thailand or elsewhere. There are provisions that will enable her to avoid double-taxation by the the US and Thai tax authorities simultaneously. If she were to own her own business in Thailand she would be obligated to pay the Self-Employment Tax (i.e. Social Security, approx. 15%) as well. Nevertheless, US SS benefits are generous, go for life, and include a cost of living adjustment and are, in my opinion, well worth the tax burden.

The FATCA and FBAR requirements are a non-issue if you both comply or a very large issue if you do not. Not worth discussing in my opinion.

You should also try to avoid liability for state income taxes, if possible depending on your state, maintain bank, credit card, and brokerage accounts in the US along with a mailing address and a US phone number.

Thanks to all for the insightful tips! To respond to some of the commenters, we reside in the US but travel to Thailand frequently. My wife has her green card and is eligible for US citizenship. While I dread going through all the US immigration paperwork again, there are clear advantages to citizenship. And it appears tax liability is the same whether green card or citizen and whether we primarily reside in the US or Thailand.

It seems like this is just a matter submitting the right forms - as always with the IRS. We have income from US sources, but as mentioned by others, we keep a couple of saving accounts in Thailand and at some point these will exceed $10k in the year. So we will come under the FBAR rules. Do Thai banks issue some kind of year-end form showing interest earned on Thai savings accounts - something akin to a 1099 - that you submit with your US 1040? Or do they only do this if your balance exceeds 10k? I don't recall seeing one to date.

I gave up trying to file my own taxes years ago and just pay an accountant. It looks like I just need to advise the accountant to submit the FBAR supplement and feed him the right year-end statements. But this sounds involved, is software such as turbotax really enough to do the job?

PS This is called FBAR? Is its proximity to "FuBAR" intentional or coincidental?

[lopburi3]

You just keep track of the interest and add up for each bank and report as you would as if you had a 1099 using tax preparation software but no information other than you and bank name and total amount. No; Thai banks do not issue a 1099 form. Actually even US banks do not issue 1099 forms for the marginal interest many accounts get these days. I use Taxact online with no problems but that is the IRS filing. FBAR is a different form and now done at there website and until you exceed the 10k is not required and when you do it just gather the bank information and amount and report it. Should not be hard for you to do without accountant (who likely will have less knowledge than you).

[el jefe]

As Lopburi said, the Thai banks will not report the interest earned to you, but in the near future they will be reporting some information about your accounts to the US Treasury Dept.

If your only source of foreign income is interest from Thai banks, it should be pretty easy for you to keep track of the info required for the various US filings.

[Langsuan Man]

OP,

If your wife has lived with you in the US for 5 years, then she is entitled to received spousal/widow benefits based on your SS contributions, even if she returns to Thailand permanently. However, that regulation has changed in the past and could change in the future, possibly to the detriment of non-resident foreign recipients. Therefore, the strongest claim that she will have to SS benefits would be based on being a US citizen. That's the reason my wife is a US citizen and I recommend citizenship for that reason.

The downside is that she will be taxable to the IRS on her world-wide income for life. It doesn't matter where the income originates, whether in the US, Thailand or elsewhere. There are provisions that will enable her to avoid double-taxation by the the US and Thai tax authorities simultaneously. If she were to own her own business in Thailand she would be obligated to pay the Self-Employment Tax (i.e. Social Security, approx. 15%) as well. Nevertheless, US SS benefits are generous, go for life, and include a cost of living adjustment and are, in my opinion, well worth the tax burden.

The FATCA and FBAR requirements are a non-issue if you both comply or a very large issue if you do not. Not worth discussing in my opinion.

You should also try to avoid liability for state income taxes, if possible depending on your state, maintain bank, credit card, and brokerage accounts in the US along with a mailing address and a US phone number.

Thanks to all for the insightful tips! To respond to some of the commenters, we reside in the US but travel to Thailand frequently. My wife has her green card and is eligible for US citizenship. While I dread going through all the US immigration paperwork again, there are clear advantages to citizenship. And it appears tax liability is the same whether green card or citizen and whether we primarily reside in the US or Thailand.

It seems like this is just a matter submitting the right forms - as always with the IRS. We have income from US sources, but as mentioned by others, we keep a couple of saving accounts in Thailand and at some point these will exceed $10k in the year. So we will come under the FBAR rules. Do Thai banks issue some kind of year-end form showing interest earned on Thai savings accounts - something akin to a 1099 - that you submit with your US 1040? Or do they only do this if your balance exceeds 10k? I don't recall seeing one to date.

I gave up trying to file my own taxes years ago and just pay an accountant. It looks like I just need to advise the accountant to submit the FBAR supplement and feed him the right year-end statements. But this sounds involved, is software such as turbotax really enough to do the job?

PS This is called FBAR? Is its proximity to "FuBAR" intentional or coincidental?

One question you did not answer. Has your wife lived in the US continually for five years ? If so, then she will be eligible for survivor benefits from your Social Security. If not then her paying taxes on it is a moot point.

If the rules are the same as they were when my first wife got her US Citizenship she had to be physically in the US for 3 years prior to applying and it took another year for the paperwork to be finished, so it total she was in the US for four years prior to getting her citizenship but would not have been eligible for survivor benefits until an additional year had passed

I would still be concerned with post # 7 by khaophad00

My wife had a permanent residence visa with a green card for over 2 years. She got it because we thought, at one point, that we would be living in the US. During that time, she only traveled to the States 3 times. The last time we entered, the immigration officer told us that the PR is only for people who want to stay and live in the US. To get citizenship, you need to fist have a PR for some period of time (5 years?). Once you become a citizen, there is no requirement for staying there though.

[SpokaneAl]

OP, If your wife has lived with you in the US for 5 years, then she is entitled to received spousal/widow benefits based on your SS contributions, even if she returns to Thailand permanently. However, that regulation has changed in the past and could change in the future, possibly to the detriment of non-resident foreign recipients. Therefore, the strongest claim that she will have to SS benefits would be based on being a US citizen. That's the reason my wife is a US citizen and I recommend citizenship for that reason. The downside is that she will be taxable to the IRS on her world-wide income for life. It doesn't matter where the income originates, whether in the US, Thailand or elsewhere. There are provisions that will enable her to avoid double-taxation by the the US and Thai tax authorities simultaneously. If she were to own her own business in Thailand she would be obligated to pay the Self-Employment Tax (i.e. Social Security, approx. 15%) as well. Nevertheless, US SS benefits are generous, go for life, and include a cost of living adjustment and are, in my opinion, well worth the tax burden. The FATCA and FBAR requirements are a non-issue if you both comply or a very large issue if you do not. Not worth discussing in my opinion. You should also try to avoid liability for state income taxes, if possible depending on your state, maintain bank, credit card, and brokerage accounts in the US along with a mailing address and a US phone number.

Thanks to all for the insightful tips! To respond to some of the commenters, we reside in the US but travel to Thailand frequently. My wife has her green card and is eligible for US citizenship. While I dread going through all the US immigration paperwork again, there are clear advantages to citizenship. And it appears tax liability is the same whether green card or citizen and whether we primarily reside in the US or Thailand. It seems like this is just a matter submitting the right forms - as always with the IRS. We have income from US sources, but as mentioned by others, we keep a couple of saving accounts in Thailand and at some point these will exceed $10k in the year. So we will come under the FBAR rules. Do Thai banks issue some kind of year-end form showing interest earned on Thai savings accounts - something akin to a 1099 - that you submit with your US 1040? Or do they only do this if your balance exceeds 10k? I don't recall seeing one to date. I gave up trying to file my own taxes years ago and just pay an accountant. It looks like I just need to advise the accountant to submit the FBAR supplement and feed him the right year-end statements. But this sounds involved, is software such as turbotax really enough to do the job? PS This is called FBAR? Is its proximity to "FuBAR" intentional or coincidental?

One question you did not answer. Has your wife lived in the US continually for five years ? If so, then she will be eligible for survivor benefits from your Social Security. If not then her paying taxes on it is a moot point. If the rules are the same as they were when my first wife got her US Citizenship she had to be physically in the US for 3 years prior to applying and it took another year for the paperwork to be finished, so it total she was in the US for four years prior to getting her citizenship but would not have been eligible for survivor benefits until an additional year had passed I would still be concerned with post # 7 by khaophad00

My wife had a permanent residence visa with a green card for over 2 years. She got it because we thought, at one point, that we would be living in the US. During that time, she only traveled to the States 3 times. The last time we entered, the immigration officer told us that the PR is only for people who want to stay and live in the US. To get citizenship, you need to fist have a PR for some period of time (5 years?). Once you become a citizen, there is no requirement for staying there though.

This article seems to spell things out on your point fairly concisely - http://crevelingandcreveling.com/blog-list/170-what-expat-americans-with-foreign-spouses-need-to-know-about-social-security.html

[oneday]

I apologize for intruding on your question but the FBar issue has always puzzled me. For example:

United States persons are required to file an FBAR if:

1. The United States person had a financial interest in or signature authority over at least one financial account located outside of the United States; and
2. The aggregate value of all foreign financial accounts exceeded $10,000 at any time during the calendar year to be reported.

I have a pension and SS income that is direct deposited into a US bank account. All money is taxed before deposit. I use TaxAct for income tax filing.I then wire transfer every month to my Thai bank accounts. There is never more than 90,000 thb in the Thai banks per month but through the year it obviously adds up to over $10,000 US. The word "aggregate" in the above statement is what confuses me. Does that mean $10,000 US at one time in the bank or do I still have to do an FBar because the money is spread throughout the year?

Thanks for any help.

If your deposits in any Thai bank Exceeds $10,000.00 during the year, it must be reported. Using your example of B90,000, that I approximately $3000USD. You would exceed the threshold in April of the year.

The exact verbage is " "maximum value of account during the calendar year". I take that to mean the highest balance on any given day. It doesn't say anything about depostis. On any given DAY if your balance (maximum value) exceeds $10,000 then you must report. But as someone else said, with the IRS, it's better to report anyway.

Edited December 26, 2013 by oneday

[JimGant]

On any given DAY if your balance (maximum value) exceeds $10,000 then you must report.

Make that any given nanosecond.

FBAR has two accounting schemes: A trigger amount -- more than $10,000, in aggregate, of all your accounts at a single moment during the year. And if meeting the trigger amount, a summary of every account's maximum value, whether or not those accounts were closed during the year, and whether or not the max amount of each account was one dollar, or tens of thousands of dollars.

Example. You have a Bangkok Bank account, with $6000, that you close in the morning, taking that $6000 to open a new account at Kasikorn Bank the same day. If you have no other accounts, your single moment aggregate remains $6000 (not $12,000 any given DAY), so no requirement to file a FBAR.

Change that amount to $11,000, and you trigger the FBAR. And you have to report that $11,000 twice (once showing the Bangkok Bank account number, once showing the Kasikorn Bank account number). Plus, you now have to report the max value for every account you have (or had) during the year), including the max value of all your joint accounts (not half value).

So, if your only asset is that $11,000 -- and for some reason you move it to 12 different banks during the year -- the Feds will see an aggregate for the year of $132,000 (no dates to differentiate), with nothing to show you only have $11,000 total. Not sure what that's worth -- maybe triggers a looksee at your Schedule B. But in contrast to the FATCA Form 8938, the aggregate $132,000 would not trigger a filing requirement (for US persons living more than 30 days in the US), since the trigger is the amount on Dec 31st, i.e., $11,000, which is well below the $50/100 thresholds for single/filing jointly.

[maphraw]

Can anyone recommend a reliable and reasonably priced US tax accountant located in Thailand, preferably Bangkok/ Thanks.

[CaptHaddock]

Can anyone recommend a reliable and reasonably priced US tax accountant located in Thailand, preferably Bangkok/ Thanks.

I can't recommend one because I do my own taxes, but if I wanted a US tax accountant I would use one in the US, who is likely to be more knowledgeable and could be cheaper. You can pick one from anywhere in the US, e.g. where rates are lower, and do business via the internet. I can't conceive of a reason that would make it necessary actually to meet with the accountant face-to-face.

[DogNo1]

Thanks for the heads up about the FATCA (IRS Form 8938.) I have been using TaxAct for many years and I think that it has included a Form 8938 each year. I'll have to go back and look at my returns. I have foreign-earned interest/dividends from many of the securities in my portfolio and I think TaxAct has been including them. I have omitted my Thai bank account from my FBAR for the past two years since I only have less than 10,000 THB in it but I'll be sure to include it this year. I hope that they don't penalize me. The penalties are draconian if they decide to impose them. It would be a pity to pay a large fine for such a small amount!

JimGant: " But in contrast to the FATCA Form 8938, the aggregate $132,000 would not trigger a filing requirement." What fling requirement are you talking about? Wouldn't 11,000 in a foreign account at any time during the year trigger a filing requirement for both the FATCA and the FBAR?

[CaptHaddock]

I really don't understand all this concern with the fine details of who is required to file the FBAR or not. If you should file and don't there are substantial penalties. If you are not required to file and you do anyway, there is no penalty of any kind. Takes me about half an hour a year and does not increase my taxes. Is there really any question what the sensible course of action would be?

[JimGant]

Wouldn't 11,000 in a foreign account at any time during the year trigger a filing requirement for both the FATCA and the FBAR?

Nope. Just the FBAR.

Filing thresholds for filing FATCA Form 8938 are considerably higher, like 5 times higher ($50,000) than the FBAR $10,000 amount. And this is this minimum, for someone filing single, and not living abroad full time. For expats (no more than 30 days in the States), your threshold is 20 times FBAR, or $200,000 if single --$400, 000 if married. Not likely many reading this have to attach a Form 8938 to their Form 1040 when filing their tax return.

I have been using TaxAct for many years and I think that it has included a Form 8938 each year.

Not likely, as Form 8938 has only been around a couple of years. And not likely last year either, once you answered their question on "how much was in your foreign financial accounts on 31 December."

It would be nice if the folks on the opposite ends of the hallway at Treasury (FinCEN and the IRS) sat down one day and harmonized their reporting thresholds. Or, how about the novel idea of Form 8938 entirely replacing the FBAR requirement? Not in my lifetime, probably......

[DogNo1]

JimGant: Thanks for clarifying the trigger amount that requires the filing of the IRS Form 8938. It would be nice, as you say, if we only had to file the one form. I will be spending 40 days in California this summer and I'd better investigate how that affects my requirement to file the 8938 and maybe pay California state taxes. Yikes! I may decrease my stay to under 30 days.

[Langsuan Man]

JimGant: Thanks for clarifying the trigger amount that requires the filing of the IRS Form 8938. It would be nice, as you say, if we only had to file the one form. I will be spending 40 days in California this summer and I'd better investigate how that affects my requirement to file the 8938 and maybe pay California state taxes. Yikes! I may decrease my stay to under 30 days.

Considering how mercenary and expensive California State Income taxes are, If I was from California, spending most of my time in LOS, I would make a quick trip and establish residency in a no income tax state such a Nevada

[maphraw]

From the IRS:

"Taxpayers living abroad. You must file a Form 8938 if you must file an income tax return and:

• You are married filing a joint income tax return and the total value of your specified foreign financial assets is more than $400,000 on the last day of the tax year or more than $600,000 at any time during the year. These thresholds apply even if only one spouse resides abroad. Married individuals who file a joint income tax return for the tax year will file a single Form 8938 that reports all of the specified foreign financial assets in which either spouse has an interest.
  
• You are not a married person filing a joint income tax return and the total value of your specified foreign financial assets is more than $200,000 on the last day of the tax year or more than $300,000 at any time during the year."
  

From TurboTax:

Turbotax question : "Was the total value of your sets of your specified foreign assets more than $600,000 at anytime during the year?

My answer is"no".

TurboTax answer: "Based on what you told us, it turns out you don't need to report your foreign financial assets".

My question is "Do I still have to file a Form 8938 if I have about $60,000 in Thai banks?". (I know all about FBAR)

[gk10002000]

I apologize for intruding on your question but the FBar issue has always puzzled me. For example:

United States persons are required to file an FBAR if:

1. The United States person had a financial interest in or signature authority over at least one financial account located outside of the United States; and
2. The aggregate value of all foreign financial accounts exceeded $10,000 at any time during the calendar year to be reported.

I have a pension and SS income that is direct deposited into a US bank account. All money is taxed before deposit. I use TaxAct for income tax filing.I then wire transfer every month to my Thai bank accounts. There is never more than 90,000 thb in the Thai banks per month but through the year it obviously adds up to over $10,000 US. The word "aggregate" in the above statement is what confuses me. Does that mean $10,000 US at one time in the bank or do I still have to do an FBar because the money is spread throughout the year?

Thanks for any help.

If your deposits in any Thai bank Exceeds $10,000.00 during the year, it must be reported. Using your example of B90,000, that I approximately $3000USD. You would exceed the threshold in April of the year.

No. I do not think you are using the "aggregate" correctly. The intent is to count the money in all your foreign accounts at the same time and instant. If at any one time the total value of monies held in all your foreign accounts total 10,000 then you are required to file. So if you had bank account 1, bank account 2, etc. If the sum in both accounts at any instant in time equaled or exceeded 10,000 then you would have to file. If you continually moved money in and then out but the instantaneous total was below 10,000, 4000 in one, 5000 in the other, you would not have to file

[JimGant]

My question is "Do I still have to file a Form 8938 if I have about $60,000 in Thai banks?"

Not in and of itself -- only if combined with other "specified foreign assets" (which doesn't include your home or rental property) and trips the $400k/$600k thresholds, which based on the TurboTax reply says you are a married expat.

But were you an expat? Did you visit the US in 2014? If so, then hopefully you had a consecutive string of 330 days outside the US that ended on a date in 2014.

If you fail the above, the married threshold drops to $100k/$150k. But, again, that $60,000 in Thai banks, in and of itself, doesn't trigger a Form 8938 requirement.

[maphraw]

Thanks for your clarification.Although the contradictory advise is a bit confusing. I am not being sarcastic. Perhaps the best thing to do is to file the 8938 regardless. Just to be on the safe side. I have been living and working in Thailand for many years and I file every year and always pass the physical presence tests and have never owed taxes.I have filed with the IRS ever year since I was 18. But last year year is the first year I did a FBAR and I had a local American accountant do my taxes and he put my Thai assets on a Form 8938. I had never filed my Thai assets before and I had never filed a FBAR because I didn't know about it. My Thai wife has a tax number from the IRS and we always file a joint account. She doesn't work. My Thai assets have grown over the years and now exceed $50,000. TurbTax concluded that I owe no Federal taxes (I also have a substantial amount of savings in the US which I declare) but they said I had to FBAR. They did not mention anything about my Thai assets. They didn't ask me anything about my monthly US social security benefits either(I get a meager monthly payment but declared it last year--since I have worked overseas much of my adult life I never put much into it so my benefits are marginal).

In any case, I probably don't have a enough money for the IRS to be very concerned, especially since I am sure I owe no taxes but I do want to meet all of the IRS requirements so as to avoid any complications. On another note, I am amazed at the large number of US expats who do not file with the IRS despite

having considerable amounts of money offshore and in the US. Most don't know what a FBAR is.

Any comments?

[taxout]

Under the Final Regulations and the latest Instructions to Form 8938, your "tax home" must also be overseas if you want to qualify for the higher reporting threshold under either the 330-day foreign presence test or the bona-fide foreign residence test.

In some cases, demonstrating that your "tax home" is overseas can be problematic, since it's not always a clear test. Given the draconian penalties for not filing Form 8938 when you should, my advice is to file unless it's absolutely clear you meet the "tax home" test. (If it's relevant to anyone, I'll let others dissect the boring details of the "tax home" test.)

https://www.federalregister.gov/articles/2014/12/12/2014-29125/reporting-of-specified-foreign-financial-assets (Reg. §1.6038D-2 applies expanded threshold to a "qualified individual under [i.R.C.] section 911(d)(1)," and that section includes a "tax home" requirement)

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i8938.pdf ("Taxpayers living outside the United States. If your tax home is in a foreign country . . . ." p.2)

Also, note that Form 8938 reporting requirements do not apply to funds held in accounts with a foreign branch or subsidiary of a U.S. bank. FBAR does apply to such accounts, though.

[JimGant]

My Thai assets have grown over the years and now exceed $50,000. TurbTax concluded that I owe no Federal taxes

Interesting conclusion by TurboTax (TT) -- do these assets reside in your mattress? Presumably, however, they are at least a Thai bank savings account -- which earns annual interest -- which is reportable on your US taxes, Schedule B, Form 1040. This is actually an easy plug into the TT questionaire, namely, define all the accounts that paid you interest, and how much was that interest. One or more defined accounts would be your Thai financial accounts, and whatever interest is they paid. Plus, TT will at some point ask if any of your accounts are foreign -- and when you answer "yes," the requirement for a Schedule B is generated.

If TT said you owed no taxes, this would only be correct if your AGI (all your income, to include Thai interest) was $20,300 for TaxYear 2014 ($20,000 for 2013). Filing Married Jointly.

And if you paid taxes on your Thai earnings, you're home free. Even the recent FBAR guidance says that if you've paid your US taxes on your foreign earnings, failure to file a FBAR is a forgivable offense. Certainly the same applies to FATCA Form 8938, which after all, is just a repetitive report of the foreign income you've already included on Schedule B (with the addition of some FBAR-like principal amounts). Its main purpose, as it is part of FATCA, is to eventually marry-up with the FATCA report from your foreign bank. And if the Form 8938 amounts don't tally (or worse, aren't present) with the foreign bank's FATCA report, expect a visit from the Feds. But, that's a few years away yet. Plus, most expats will be below the reportable FATCA thresholds.

I had a local American accountant do my taxes and he put my Thai assets on a Form 8938

Not sure why.....as it's doubtful, from all you've said, that your "specified foreign assets" exceeded $100k, the worst case threshold scenario for if you didn't qualify as no longer a US resident. Probably he was just being overly cautious in an environment where guidance hadn't solidified.

I am amazed at the large number of US expats who do not file with the IRS despite

having considerable amounts of money offshore and in the US.

Ah, you've deciphered the rationale for the FATCA legislation.

[umbanda]

Your wife doesn't automatically get ss by being your wife. She needs to reside in the US continuously to receive that benefit. I don't remember the number of years, it's on the ss website. she will also have to get permanent residency before they grant citizenship. If you're planning to be there half time only, expect the government to fight you against granting permanent residency, they'll be probably be willing to grant a 6 month visa first. You're looking at YEARS of paperwork to get this done. Not to mention again that she must live continuously, not part time, to get ss benefits. No way around that.

What I know is that the Thai spouse will need 5 years of continuously residence to get the residence, plus more 5 years to get the citizenship, and after husband death the SS benefit is a % of the total, less another % if living out the country.

Somebody said here that the US Social Security is "generous"......Really?...for some people probably is..not for most. Considering the differences... Thais long term employees get better SS benefits than US citizens...Some up to 70% of its last salary after 60...or a nice lump cash....or both.

[maphraw]

I would think that Thailand qualifies as my "tax home". I have been living here for more than 17 years, have a Thai wife, file a 2555 every year and pass the physical presence test. I haven't been back to the States since 2004 when I went back for a week for a funeral. I want to be sure everything I do with the IRS places me beyond scrutiny since I have only been doing the FBAR for a few years and have only just begun to report my Thai interest from bank accounts and dividends from a Thai mutual fund. The mutual fund informed me that they will be providing Uncle Sam with information about my mutual fund and they sent me a Form W-8 (I think that is what it was called) to sign.

Maybe I am being a little paranoid since I am such a little fish among so many hugely wealthy expats.

Thanks for your info everyone. It's really helpful.

[Pib]

Your wife doesn't automatically get ss by being your wife. She needs to reside in the US continuously to receive that benefit. I don't remember the number of years, it's on the ss website. she will also have to get permanent residency before they grant citizenship. If you're planning to be there half time only, expect the government to fight you against granting permanent residency, they'll be probably be willing to grant a 6 month visa first. You're looking at YEARS of paperwork to get this done. Not to mention again that she must live continuously, not part time, to get ss benefits. No way around that.

What I know is that the Thai spouse will need 5 years of continuously residence to get the residence, plus more 5 years to get the citizenship, and after husband death the SS benefit is a % of the total, less another % if living out the country.

Somebody said here that the US Social Security is "generous"......Really?...for some people probably is..not for most. Considering the differences... Thais long term employees get better SS benefits than US citizens...Some up to 70% of its last salary after 60...or a nice lump cash....or both.

Can't speak to what some Thai private pension plans pay, but I expect there are few in comparison to the entire Thai population that pay 70% of your last salary...very few indeed. But as for Thai Social Security payments based on info at this website the Thai Social security program pays a max of 20% of your average monthly salary for your last 60 months of salary, with a salary base of 1,650 to 15,000 baht which I guess means your social security is based on a max montly salary of 15,000 baht. So, 20% of 15,000 baht would give you a monthly social security pension of Bt3,000 or about $92 USD. From looking at the U.S. Social Security web site for the average monthly U.S. Social Secuirty payment for a retired worker it's $1328 USD or Bt43,000. Quite a bit of difference between a monthly Thai monthly social security max payment of Bt3,000 compared to a U.S. monthly average social security payment of Bt43,000,

[JimGant]

The mutual fund informed me that they will be providing Uncle Sam with information about my mutual fund and they sent me a Form W-8 (I think that is what it was called) to sign.

Hopefully it was a W-9, not a W-8 -- which is used to certify that you are NOT a "US person." If, indeed, you signed and submitted a W-8, best go retrieve and replace with a W-9. (Sorry to fan your paranoia.)

[CaptHaddock]

Your wife doesn't automatically get ss by being your wife. She needs to reside in the US continuously to receive that benefit. I don't remember the number of years, it's on the ss website. she will also have to get permanent residency before they grant citizenship. If you're planning to be there half time only, expect the government to fight you against granting permanent residency, they'll be probably be willing to grant a 6 month visa first. You're looking at YEARS of paperwork to get this done. Not to mention again that she must live continuously, not part time, to get ss benefits. No way around that.

What I know is that the Thai spouse will need 5 years of continuously residence to get the residence, plus more 5 years to get the citizenship, and after husband death the SS benefit is a % of the total, less another % if living out the country.

Somebody said here that the US Social Security is "generous"......Really?...for some people probably is..not for most. Considering the differences... Thais long term employees get better SS benefits than US citizens...Some up to 70% of its last salary after 60...or a nice lump cash....or both.

Congratulations. Every single item in your post is wrong for a perfect score of 0.

1. There is no minimum period of residence before the alien can apply for permanent residence. Actual processing time varies considerably. It is nonsensical to imagine that there is a minimum period of residence before applying for PR status since how would the applicant reside legally in the US for 5 years without PR status?

2. For a spouse of a US citizen the minimum tenure of PR status before becoming eligible to apply for citizenship is 3 years, not 5 years, which applies to those not married to an American.

3. The SS widow's (survivor's) benefit is 100% of the Primary Insurance Benefit the deceased spouse received while living or her own PIA, whichever is higher. The widow receives that benefit in lieu of the spouse's benefit she received while both partners were living which is normally 50% of the husband's (or high earner's) benefit.

4. There is no reduction in SS benefits for living overseas. COLAs also apply to all beneficiaries whether in the US or outside of it.

Please do not post junk "information" on subjects about which you apparently know nothing.

[CaptHaddock]

I would think that Thailand qualifies as my "tax home". I have been living here for more than 17 years, have a Thai wife, file a 2555 every year and pass the physical presence test. I haven't been back to the States since 2004 when I went back for a week for a funeral. I want to be sure everything I do with the IRS places me beyond scrutiny since I have only been doing the FBAR for a few years and have only just begun to report my Thai interest from bank accounts and dividends from a Thai mutual fund. The mutual fund informed me that they will be providing Uncle Sam with information about my mutual fund and they sent me a Form W-8 (I think that is what it was called) to sign.

Maybe I am being a little paranoid since I am such a little fish among so many hugely wealthy expats.

Thanks for your info everyone. It's really helpful.

Thailand is your "tax home" if you file and pay taxes here. Apparently, you don't, so it isn't your tax home.

[maphraw]

Sorry but I don't think you read my post correctly or I didn't state clearly that I live and work and file my US taxes here. For the past 17 years to be exact. I record my earned income on a Form 2555 and pass the physical presence thing. During these past seventeen years, I have never been out of Thailand for more then ten days in any given year. It would seem that this is my 'Tax Home".

[CaptHaddock]

Sorry but I don't think you read my post correctly or I didn't state clearly that I live and work and file my US taxes here. For the past 17 years to be exact. I record my earned income on a Form 2555 and pass the physical presence thing. During these past seventeen years, I have never been out of Thailand for more then ten days in any given year. It would seem that this is my 'Tax Home".

I think you are correct according to the IRS summary below. You must be paying Thai income tax then, right?

http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/International-Taxpayers/Foreign-Earned-Income-Exclusion---Tax-Home-in-Foreign-Country

[maphraw]

Yes. I pay Thai income taxes every year but will retire this year. I will continue to live in Thailand full time.

[maphraw]

I mistakenly said that my accountant completed a Form 8938 for my Thai interest and dividends last year. He did not, He just included them on the schedule B Form 1040. This clears up much of my confusion. There is no need to be concerned with Form 8938,unless I suddenly come into huge amounts of money here.

Still working on trying to download the FBAR document. Unsuccessfully of course. I just got the Adobe reader 11.0.10 version but the FBAR documnet still doesn't download.I'll have to try the computer at work.