Farang door mats

[somchaimaidai]

TV is the environment for those who have zero respect on the 'outside' world to try to command respect on the 'inside' world. In this environment everyone is 6'2" and can take on the world.

The OP has good points and rather than shorties try and show their internet 'height' perhaps we could all just show a little respect.

Peace.

[Kangawallafox]

"Show me a lie". Ummmmm ok .....Ok ... One poster asked why you dont make coffee at home if you so unhappy about giving "lovely people" a few baht more than they charge Thais.You said you dont carry a kettle round Bangkok ... forgetting you had originally posted the stall was just outside your home.Ok you will say it is up to you whether to make or buy. But you lied !!!!!!!

Talk about picking idiot,I buy it when I'm heading out,so I am out,I don't buy it then return home.

It's hardly a lie.

[Kangawallafox]

Opl great and wise post. I will take note. I should step aside but the OP is such a cuckold. Ok ... You have convinced me ... I will step aside. Well only if he stops posting stuff that is so lacking in human kindness and understanding. And just plain wrong. "Why do falang roll over" was his post. Superman should not generalise so much. His superman example will be interesting though. I love a bet. Ummm what are the odds he will give an example that is remotely believable.

Some farang,not farang,your lying again.

[fish fingers]

"This is the Farang doormat helpline, we are out of the office at the moment.."

[Hardened Spanker]

For this that mentioned it,it's not about coffee it's about cowardice. It's rampant,however online everyone is a hero.

Of course you're the real Harry Hardman Thai boxer I take it,despite being online also and constantly giving it the Charlie Big Potatoes?

[Straight8]

Still waiting for an example of super hero, non cowardly, not rolling over heroism. I know .. you did not tip a waitress who did not smile enough for Sir. We cowards would leave 2 baht and leave to find a more welcoming bar. How have been brave when you say us cowards would be ... well cowardly ... I guess your saying. Who did you take on ?

hey pawn, i think he was making reference to guys like you paying for your MIL house and FIL new 4 x 4..

[suthansman]

I like to be a Farang Door Mat sometimes.

Very kinky to have my g/f walk all over me...............

[StreetCowboy]

At the risk of pontificating, a picture is worth a thousand words

as I mentioned earlier.

Perhaps others would care to share pictures of their doormats. And bootscrapers, if they have them

SC

[kinmaew]

depends on the situation. I remember some drunken idiot got up from his table and accidently poured his beer over me on Sukumvit late at night. I was not drunk and I just thought if I belt this prick what will happen next? Arrested by police, get in a brawl, blacklisted or worse. Sometimes its best to stay calm and just walk away. Keeping off the booze also helps.

[krisb]

At the risk of pontificating, a picture is worth a thousand words

DSCN1118.JPG

as I mentioned earlier.

Perhaps others would care to share pictures of their doormats. And bootscrapers, if they have them

SC

Fine example of a pet free doormat SC.

[Tomtomtom69]

Personally, I think there's a lot to be said for the bloke who can turn the other cheek and calmly walk away especially if it can be done without remorse later. It's far more noble to be capable of that than to become embroiled in a situation in a country where the rule of law doesn't even apply to the locals let alone the foreigners and where things can get very nasty, very quickly.

Unfortunately, however, I'm not the type to let people take the piss.

If a local tries to knock me or palm me off with shitty service or goods, I generally stand my ground until I get what I want.

That usually works out in my favour because

1. I'm not an unreasonable person and I'm not averse to compromise

2. I've got no one to impress,

3. I've got no "face" to save since I don't give much of a toss what the locals think

On more than one occasion, I've been commended for standing up for myself here - by both Thais and Westerners - but I don't strut away indignantly feeling proud of myself

No, I walk away thanking the stars that common sense and awareness ensures I know which fights to fight and which to walk away from.

This is excactly the balance we should be aiming to achieve.

Issue is, we all need to acquire some knocks and bruises first before we can hone this balance. Not easy, but achievable if we wish to reside here longterm.

I'm much the same as you HardenedSoul. Although I am quite humble at work (but why wouldn't I be, when everyone is so nice and seems to respect each other) but if I'm not treated reasonably elsewhere I do stand my ground just like you do. Luckily my fluent Thai also helps. However, there are people around me that seem to care too much about what their neighbors think of them. Who gives a rats ass about neighbors. If they're not your friends to begin with they can go and screw themselves (this is assuming that you aren't already in a feud with them but rather, that they are simply jealous of you or something) so no matter what kind of car I drive, how much money I have, whatever, I won't care what the neighbors think because they are meaningless to me. However, my gf's family seems to think it's important what their neighbors think so they instruct my gf to act in certain ways when she goes back home. For what? Who cares, I say!

[philliphn]

"Is it out of fear for the locals,fear of rattling the cage,why fear offending someone if they offend you."

Because I am afraid that if I offend a local..........he will come back with 10 of his friends.....and send me to hospital.

We are dealing with people with a different mentality and attitude than in Europe or USA.

Most verbal conflicts. Will not result in physical confrontations. However, it is important to understand. That in Thailand. Their is no such thing as a fair fight. Their is winning and losing. Don't let this confuse you. The locals are not confused about this. You can be assertive, and polite. Don't let people walk all over you. Because, they will if they think that you are a push over. If you disagree usually you can walk away. Beating some one up, or getting beaten up. Does not make some one right, or wrong. Only monkeys would think that!

Edited January 4, 2014 by philliphn

[Sam Gold]

OP, have you been in Thailand very long? Do you have a lot of experience mixing with Thais and particularly Thai men?

The bottom line is don't ever confront a Thai as if face loss is involved the consequences can be very serious for you. "Defending values" etc that's just bullshit with all due respect, your values are your values and they become meaningful through your actions with people close to you.

Those who know better than to bite the bait aren't doormats, they're experienced and smart.

Edited January 4, 2014 by Sam Gold

[PAWNEESE]

He claims to have been a monk for 2 years (see no shame, no morals thread he started).

Then he studied Muay Thai fighting he said.

Now he preaches hate and venom and that some falang are doormats and cowards to quote him.

He is asked many times how much he was overcharged by "lovely people" that were still cheaper than rivals but has not replied.

Nor has he taken up my challenge to explain how HE has ever been a non doormat. Just keep preaching confrontation

and childishness.

How has a falang ever been cowardly ? Give an example.

I googled the OPs pen name and got his face book pic,

[khunpa]

I think it general has something to do with Foreigners here wanting Thais and Thailand to be more "different" than it really is. Because if you in your mind make things more complex and different, than it really is then it adds to the excitement of being here. Most things are over-analyzed and over-exaggerated to make the adventure more dramatic.

I think, it basically comes out of lack of knowing real Thai-people, which is hard to do from e.g. a bar or a inclosed expat environment. It becomes a "Them" and "Us" situation, making it easier to conclude that there are differences. But if you really know Thai-people and live amongst them, then you quickly find out that they are just people like everybody else in this world. Actually from the places I have lived in Asia, they are to me very normal and that is also why I like being here. Just go to e.g. Vietnam or China and you will find some people, that even the Thai people think are very different and do not mentally understand.

For some people I think the fact of living in a different country, is seen as something special and they put effort into making in different, for it to become interesting for themselves and people that do not know better. Stories are made up of the "wild" and "crazy" Thai people, who are so strange and therefore also exciting to live amongst. Just like the Farang-men who think that Thai-women are something special and different from other women in this world. They only think like this, because they have never lived with one. When they finally do, then they will find out there is really not so much difference.

The fear and ignorance is all in peoples heads and is not related to reality. Normal Thai people have moral and know what is right and wrong. And if they are normal, then they also treat you with respect and know you can also as a foreigner lose face. Thai people are not much different from us. Just get out of the bar or the inclosed expat community and you will find out. Actually that is what makes them nice people and this a nice place to live. It is pretty normal for Asia!

Edited January 5, 2014 by khunpa

[impulse]

Here's a thought.

Let's ask this guy what he thinks.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/693891-11-arrested-for-attacking-french-tourist-in-hua-hin/

Or the American guy who stood his ground with that machete wielding taxi driver, or the other American who stood his ground on the karaoke stage, or the...

Question I always try to ask myself before any action: "What do I want to accomplish with my next action, and what action is it that will accomplish it?".

Often I fall short, as I did when I embarrassed myself at the airport last night. But rather than feeling perfectly justified in being a Richard Head (I was, honest), I focus on what I could have done to make the outcome better. Hopefully, that's how I'll act next time.

[JLCrab]

From Post #106: Thai people are not much different from us.

From Saturday Night Live (SNL) 1991 "Chickens are like you and me, except they're chickens."

[Scottythai]

OP, have you been in Thailand very long? Do you have a lot of experience mixing with Thais and particularly Thai men?

The bottom line is don't ever confront a Thai as if face loss is involved the consequences can be very serious for you. "Defending values" etc that's just bullshit with all due respect, your values are your values and they become meaningful through your actions with people close to you.

Those who know better than to bite the bait aren't doormats, they're experienced and smart.

See this is what I think the OP is talking about. If I am right and someone losses face because they don't get it. That's not my problem and in my time here I have yet to see these Consequences that are always mentioned. Be an man stand up for your thoughts and ideas. If he has a hissy remind him that's not the actions of a man. Seems to have worked for me for the years I have been here.

[Sam Gold]

OP, have you been in Thailand very long? Do you have a lot of experience mixing with Thais and particularly Thai men?

The bottom line is don't ever confront a Thai as if face loss is involved the consequences can be very serious for you. "Defending values" etc that's just bullshit with all due respect, your values are your values and they become meaningful through your actions with people close to you.

Those who know better than to bite the bait aren't doormats, they're experienced and smart.

See this is what I think the OP is talking about. If I am right and someone losses face because they don't get it. That's not my problem and in my time here I have yet to see these Consequences that are always mentioned. Be an man stand up for your thoughts and ideas. If he has a hissy remind him that's not the actions of a man. Seems to have worked for me for the years I have been here.

Same here, never been in an even remotely dangerous situation either, and I consider Thailand to be a lot safer than France and the UK. However:

It isn't reasonable to preach "standing up for yourself" in Thailand on a forum as it can be interpreted in different ways by people who don't necessarily have enough insight into Thai culture. Here one word (especially the f_ word for instance which we Westerners use a lot) can trigger violent behaviour from Thai men, more so if alcohol is factored in the equation.

Just because it hasn't happened to us doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

The only way to gain respect from Thais is to learn their language for a start, lay low, be humble and frequent them for long enough to actually get how things are done here. Throwing our weight about and imposing our view of things is being ignorant and will never yield anything positive.

Edited January 5, 2014 by Sam Gold

[Scottythai]

OP, have you been in Thailand very long? Do you have a lot of experience mixing with Thais and particularly Thai men?

The bottom line is don't ever confront a Thai as if face loss is involved the consequences can be very serious for you. "Defending values" etc that's just bullshit with all due respect, your values are your values and they become meaningful through your actions with people close to you.

Those who know better than to bite the bait aren't doormats, they're experienced and smart.

See this is what I think the OP is talking about. If I am right and someone losses face because they don't get it. That's not my problem and in my time here I have yet to see these Consequences that are always mentioned. Be an man stand up for your thoughts and ideas. If he has a hissy remind him that's not the actions of a man. Seems to have worked for me for the years I have been here.

Same here, never been in an even remotely dangerous situation either, and I consider Thailand to be a lot safer than France and the UK. However:

It isn't reasonable to preach "standing up for yourself" in Thailand on a forum as it can be interpreted in different ways by people who don't necessarily have enough insight into Thai culture. Here one word (especially the f_ word for instance which we Westerners use a lot) can trigger violent behaviour from Thai men, more so if alcohol is factored in the equation.

Just because it hasn't happened to us doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

The only way to gain respect from Thais is to learn their language for a start, lay low, be humble and frequent them for long enough to actually get how things are done here. Throwing our weight about and imposing our view of things is being ignorant and will never yield anything positive.

I never throw my weight around and no matter who I speak with from any country I am always polite. Its the way I was raised. But no matter where in the world I am if I see I am right on something or se something being done wrong I can't help but to say what I see or feel. But as I said maybe I am just lucky or maybe the guys I hang out with understand the way I think. I never have even come close to an argument over this.

[Kangawallafox]

I think it general has something to do with Foreigners here wanting Thais and Thailand to be more "different" than it really is. Because if you in your mind make things more complex and different, than it really is then it adds to the excitement of being here. Most things are over-analyzed and over-exaggerated to make the adventure more dramatic.

I think, it basically comes out of lack of knowing real Thai-people, which is hard to do from e.g. a bar or a inclosed expat environment. It becomes a "Them" and "Us" situation, making it easier to conclude that there are differences. But if you really know Thai-people and live amongst them, then you quickly find out that they are just people like everybody else in this world. Actually from the places I have lived in Asia, they are to me very normal and that is also why I like being here. Just go to e.g. Vietnam or China and you will find some people, that even the Thai people think are very different and do not mentally understand.

For some people I think the fact of living in a different country, is seen as something special and they put effort into making in different, for it to become interesting for themselves and people that do not know better. Stories are made up of the "wild" and "crazy" Thai people, who are so strange and therefore also exciting to live amongst. Just like the Farang-men who think that Thai-women are something special and different from other women in this world. They only think like this, because they have never lived with one. When they finally do, then they will find out there is really not so much difference.

The fear and ignorance is all in peoples heads and is not related to reality. Normal Thai people have moral and know what is right and wrong. And if they are normal, then they also treat you with respect and know you can also as a foreigner lose face. Thai people are not much different from us. Just get out of the bar or the inclosed expat community and you will find out. Actually that is what makes them nice people and this a nice place to live. It is pretty normal for Asia!

Wow,not afraid to make assumptions are you.

[Kangawallafox]

Ok ok guys,you win,I don't understand thai men.

Lived with them but that's all,thanks for the insights some,to most thanks for the wild assumptions.

Seems amazing how everyone knows me back to front,should start a thai visa psychic hotline,

Never made anyone angry hear yet,can be polite and confront an issue in the right way.

Everyone jumped straight to the assumption I was screaming and shouting,amongst numerous over assumptions.

[wym]

I think more like a fundamental conflict about "being a man" - you're way is to be like a rock as opposed to the more Asian "strong like water".

[Kangawallafox]

I think more like a fundamental conflict about "being a man" - you're way is to be like a rock as opposed to the more Asian "strong like water".

Many here are like water,I have known many men who turn to water when a little conflict arises.

Water evaporates with enough heat.

[10Yen]

Personally, I think there's a lot to be said for the bloke who can turn the other cheek and calmly walk away especially if it can be done without remorse later. It's far more noble to be capable of that than to become embroiled in a situation in a country where the rule of law doesn't even apply to the locals let alone the foreigners and where things can get very nasty, very quickly.

Unfortunately, however, I'm not the type to let people take the piss.

If a local tries to knock me or palm me off with shitty service or goods, I generally stand my ground until I get what I want.

That usually works out in my favour because

1. I'm not an unreasonable person and I'm not averse to compromise

2. I've got no one to impress,

3. I've got no "face" to save since I don't give much of a toss what the locals think

On more than one occasion, I've been commended for standing up for myself here - by both Thais and Westerners - but I don't strut away indignantly feeling proud of myself

No, I walk away thanking the stars that common sense and awareness ensures I know which fights to fight and which to walk away from.

This is excactly the balance we should be aiming to achieve.

Issue is, we all need to acquire some knocks and bruises first before we can hone this balance. Not easy, but achievable if we wish to reside here longterm.

I'm much the same as you HardenedSoul. Although I am quite humble at work (but why wouldn't I be, when everyone is so nice and seems to respect each other) but if I'm not treated reasonably elsewhere I do stand my ground just like you do. Luckily my fluent Thai also helps.

ThaiVisa members are heroes, unbelievable, in my fluent Thai.............. that means I think it's bullshit.

[wym]

I'm much the same as you HardenedSoul. Although I am quite humble at work (but why wouldn't I be, when everyone is so nice and seems to respect each other) but if I'm not treated reasonably elsewhere I do stand my ground just like you do. Luckily my fluent Thai also helps.

ThaiVisa members are heroes, unbelievable, in my fluent Thai.............. that means I think it's bullshit.

"but all the locals tell me my Thai is perfect!"

I think more like a fundamental conflict about "being a man" - you're way is to be like a rock as opposed to the more Asian "strong like water".

Many here are like water,I have known many men who turn to water when a little conflict arises.

Water evaporates with enough heat.

Whatever works for you man.

[JLCrab]

I was a doormat for almost a year as I promised my house-owner that I would not cause any trouble for her with the neighbors. But finally the people with the Rottweiler -- which would stand at their front gate and bark like a cannon shot 10 meters from my kitchen window -- have moved away. Sometimes you just have to wait them out.

[marko kok prong]

we should all realise thai rak thai,sure stand up for what you think is right,but don,t make enemies here,people don't forget if they loose face,and if you live in a small village like me,it pays to know when to shrug it off ,smile and walk away,otherwise you might wind up dead.

[Sam Gold]

Everyone jumped straight to the assumption I was screaming and shouting,amongst numerous over assumptions.

Choice of wording is essential though. The following are your words, and they aren't the words of someone suggesting a reasonable discussion about the importance of polite debate with Thais:

"Farang doormats"; "let people walk all over them"; "fear for the locals, fear of rattling the cage, why fear offending someone if they offend you" etc...

Some of us here have answered your questions, e.g. why you should in fact be weary of offending someone in this country, why "rattling the cage" isn't something you do when in a conflict with Thais, etc.

At the end of the day you reap what you sow.