Are you an Atheist/Believer?

[orosee]

I'm at the pool so I get my thoughts in a randomly disconnected way.

I'd start the way: Dismiss, without any further thought, every belief system that is based on a reward/punishment mechanism by a divine or supernatural authority.

That covers most common belief institutions including Santa Claus. It also exposes those religions that are just parenting of adults, and cement for ruling hierarchies.

Or, if you like it the hard way, see how science explains the world. I found for myself that even with the still existing gaps, there is no need for gods - only a need for deeper research.

I've never felt more connected with the universe than since I've read about cosmology (that's science) and evolution. "The Selfish Gene" has taught me that my best chance to immortality is to have a child (thanks to the flaws of Catholic birth control, this will be happening soon).

Anyway, I don't need my thoughts to be respected or tolerated, but I don't mind sharing and expanding them with like-minded people. Not too different from more religious people, really.

[Guest]

I hope that, during my lifetime, we'll be visited by some galactic travellers.

Jude, Christians, Muslims would say: God, you finally came.

Atheist: Hello space cowboys, welcome to planet Earth

Agnostics: Prove yourself, make the moon disappear

Scientologist: I told you so! Now, here is our Paypal account for donations

Buddhist: Quiet in the room please, I'm having a telepathic call with our visitors

.. and after few years, people would start to wonder if these visitors have their own higher powers..

[johnmarhall]

100% i believe in the lord he is my savior i try every day to thank him

[GAZZPA]

Please close this thread, as its going to turn in to a group of hateful religious comments.

People have the right to practice any religion they choose. Respect it

Christopher Hitchens:

Religion poisons everyhing!

Is Christopher Hitchins the new gospel? People seem to take his word without question.

SC

No no,

I question everything. But I happen to agree with Hitchens on this. Every atheist does.

I very must agree with and admire Richard Dawkins, brilliant scientist, and atheist.

Most misery and suffering in the world is caused by one religion or another.

Even Buddhists, usually considered the least hateful and tolernt religion.. But ask Muslims in Myanmar, how they feel about Budhists people passinately attacking and killing men, women, and children, just because they are Muslim minority in Myanmar.

Sent from my C6903 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

You are clearly a Science man.. Well Science does good and bad things such as creating an endless choice of weapons to kill people such as bombs, chemicals, guns etc, etc. Does this make Science a bad thing or is it mans fault for abusing it. Also is Religion a bad thing or does man just abuse it?

So, assuming that you agree that it's mans abuse of Science and Religion that's the problem then,,, "most misery in the world is caused by Science and Religion".

Should we get rid of both of them?

[sfbandung]

Paedophilia exists. Kids get cancer and die horribly. There are serial killers and tyrants who murder millions, funnily enough often in "God's" name.

Therefore there cannot be an "omnipotent, omnipresent, benevolent" God.

[orosee]

Carl Sagan! How could I forget him! Much less aggressive than Dawkins, but then he lived in a better America.

[orosee]

Sorry to disagree, sfbandung. Good cannot exist without evil. This argument leads nowhere. Science and reason can't be used to disprove nor prove the existence of gods. But I'll take a 0.999999999 certainty for this life.

[SanukDii]

I wonder of those that don't believe in God, when you are child/loved one is diagnosed with cancer and the doctors say there is nothing that they can do, would you then pray to God?

My personal experience is that people with like minds find each other. The reason that the OP has no friends that are religious is because he isn't. Why would they or he want to be around people they cannot share their beliefs together?

I believe that there are a lot more people looking for something to believe in than not. My generation of people seemed to stray from faith but now those that have no faith often have children that want to understand what their parents reject.

There are those of faith that want to talk with everyone about it, and then there are those that have the same faith but are very private because of the scorn they get from the 7's on your list. It is socially acceptable to be atheist and talk about it, but it isn't socailly acceptable to praise the lord in mixed company. At least in Thailand people accept you and don't argue with you when you share with them.

Well I think it depends what country you live in. As a brit when living in the US , I always felt uncomfortable expressing my aetheist or agnostic views. Nobody seems to want to debate it. And...to answer an earlier question, when my mother was passing...no I did not pray to any 'god'. He seems unable to cure lukemia.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Guest]

You are clearly a Science man.. Well Science does good and bad things such as creating an endless choice of weapons to kill people such as bombs, chemicals, guns etc, etc. Does this make Science a bad thing or is it mans fault for abusing it. Also is Religion a bad thing or does man just abuse it?

So, assuming that you agree that it's mans abuse of Science and Religion that's the problem then,,, "most misery in the world is caused by Science and Religion".

Should we get rid of both of them?

Science does not create weapons, engineers do.

Science tries to increase our understanding of the world around us. Creating theories, based on found evidence, which always can be and should be doubted.

Science and religions are located in very different domains and should not actually be compared to each other.

[orosee]

Last one, I swear! :-D

Science and religion are both searching for the truth, but in apparently opposite directions. Only one group keeps searching and constantly re-evaluates their body of knowledge, casting aside what was proven wrong and trying out fresh, new theories as they expand their horizon.

I just picked the one that I consider less likely to be wrong. Never regretted my decision but I need to keep on my toes.

[ABCer]

I am neither 1 nor 7.

I do not idolize any Guru, Prophet or Book.

I am very tolerant to other's beliefs.

When I see what people are capable of doing to each other I find the idea of omnipotent, omnipresent and all-seeing Supreme Entity - insulting.

The idea of 'Free Will' in this context becomes an insult to the very concept of Supreme Entity.

Therefore, - if you leave me be, I will let you be.

[GAZZPA]

I'm at the pool so I get my thoughts in a randomly disconnected way.

I'd start the way: Dismiss, without any further thought, every belief system that is based on a reward/punishment mechanism by a divine or supernatural authority.

That covers most common belief institutions including Santa Claus. It also exposes those religions that are just parenting of adults, and cement for ruling hierarchies.

Or, if you like it the hard way, see how science explains the world. I found for myself that even with the still existing gaps, there is no need for gods - only a need for deeper research.

I've never felt more connected with the universe than since I've read about cosmology (that's science) and evolution. "The Selfish Gene" has taught me that my best chance to immortality is to have a child (thanks to the flaws of Catholic birth control, this will be happening soon).

Anyway, I don't need my thoughts to be respected or tolerated, but I don't mind sharing and expanding them with like-minded people. Not too different from more religious people, really.

everything is based upon reward/punishment mechanism. our societies are built on them as is nature in general..

for example,, work hard and you will get rewarded, try a short cut and you get punished..

in nature, A lion spends hours hunting and finally gets rewarded by killing an animal,, another lion tries to steal the animal rather then hunt itself and gets punished by the first lion,,, this is the natural order of things.. Do right get rewarded, do wrong get punished.. you already live in this mechanism, you just haven't looked at it.

As for science, it's great that you have found something that helps you connect. I myself am getting sceptical because Science theory all to easily become science fact nowadays. People seem to read a science book full of theories cleverly written to appear as fact and instantly believe them.

However, I am not dismissive of science, it is a crucial part of our development and many great things come out of science.. Not everything can be answered by Science is I guess my point.

[SanukDii]

It's an unwinnable (is that a word?) ,argument. Cognitive dissonance...the more evidence you have that man created god...the more deeply the religious believe that god created man......time to move on I think.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[GAZZPA]

I am neither 1 nor 7.

I do not idolize any Guru, Prophet or Book.

I am very tolerant to other's beliefs.

When I see what people are capable of doing to each other I find the idea of omnipotent, omnipresent and all-seeing Supreme Entity - insulting.

The idea of 'Free Will' in this context becomes an insult to the very concept of Supreme Entity.

Therefore, - if you leave me be, I will let you be.

So, man does terrible things to man (man has free will)

Religious teachings tell man not to do those things.

Man ignores them and rejects the teachings.

Now man blames religion for the bad things man does to man.

Interesting..

[sfbandung]

 

Sorry to disagree, sfbandung. Good cannot exist without evil. This argument leads nowhere. Science and reason can't be used to disprove nor prove the existence of gods. But I'll take a 0.999999999 certainty for this life.

 

Orosee you missed the critical "omnipotent, omnipresent and benevolent" criteria. If He exists and is all these things then good must exist without evil. If He is not all these things then He is not a God proposed by any of the mainstream religions.

Fun argument. The hilarious thing about religion is it gets its credibility from being incredible.

[Frank James]

Two. (2)

I have noticed a strong trend in recent years toward outspoken, militant atheism. I am willing to concede that atheists may be correct, that there is no God or gods, that people like me who do believe in any sort of deity are fools. Dawkins and the late alcoholic neo-con Hitchens have become leading exemplars of this attitude. Maybe they are right. I don't know, but... neither do they. They seem as dogmatic. annoying, and pushy in their atheism as guys like Robertson and the Graham boys are in their evangelistic religiosity. You think it's all BS, fine, but why go around ridiculing people of faith? Are you insecure in your disbelief?

I have a personal faith that guides me, but I will never try to foist in on you, I promise.

A favorite quote:

I used to be an atheist, but I gave it up. No holidays! ----Jackie Mason

[Emster23]

If any religion could offer one shred of scientifically valid evidence that god exists, I would accept that. But it hasn't happened. And the "near death" experiences are just that, near death, not dead. I think Hawking said something like "religion is fairy tales told to those afraid of the dark". Someone once said religion is one way to get good people to do bad things. Think of shooting girls and blowing up schools because you think god wants women to be ignorant and subjugated, etc etc.

I am a Buddhist because it does not require a god or faith in myths. Whether Buddha existed or not is not important. The teachings are. This is a good quote attributed to Buddha (see if you can find something like this in other belief systems!):

"'Do not believe anything merely on the authority of your teachers and priests. But, whatever, after thorough investigation and reflection, you find to agree with reason and experience, as conducive to the good and benefit of one and all of the world at large, accept only that as true, and shape your life in accordance with it.''

[GAZZPA]

You are clearly a Science man.. Well Science does good and bad things such as creating an endless choice of weapons to kill people such as bombs, chemicals, guns etc, etc. Does this make Science a bad thing or is it mans fault for abusing it. Also is Religion a bad thing or does man just abuse it?

So, assuming that you agree that it's mans abuse of Science and Religion that's the problem then,,, "most misery in the world is caused by Science and Religion".

Should we get rid of both of them?

Science does not create weapons, engineers do.

Science tries to increase our understanding of the world around us. Creating theories, based on found evidence, which always can be and should be doubted.

Science and religions are located in very different domains and should not actually be compared to each other.

Engineers use scientific research to create weapons,, this is a matter of semantics. You need scientific research to create chemical weapons, bombs, guns etc,,, fact.

Science and religion are always compared,, have you not heard of the debate between creationism and evolutionism (scientific theory)

many atheists use Science as an alternative to religion siting the big bang theory as the beginning of the universe without the need for a creator, so they are compared and do not live in different domains (whatever that means)

[FredLee]

Gazpa, while your post was pleasant to read you should know that in science - quite different from our daily language - a "theory" is about as good as it gets. This is a common argument used by Creationists to cast doubt where there is none. To make it more confusing, a "law" is of a lesser order than a "theory". More accurate definitions on the Web, I'm just telling you because using the "theory" fallacy destroys all the good arguments you may have.

Be that as it may, a theory is still just that, a theory not a fact. I am not saying the big bang (or as it is often referred to now the big expansion) theory is wrong. I just don't know if it is true, nor does anyone else. The same can be said of the theory of creation.

The prevailing theory of a majority of scientists is that there was nothing (the singularity), and from that nothing the universe spontaneously came into being.

The prevailing theory of a majority of Christians is that there was nothing, and from that nothing the universe was created by something or someone referred to as God.

To believe in the truthfulness of either theory seems to me to require a great deal of faith.

[mrdome]

As a Buddhist, I am de facto a 7.

[zeichen]

" I am a Buddhist because it does not require a god or faith in myths. Whether Buddha existed or not is not important. The teachings are. This is a good quote attributed to Buddha (see if you can find something like this in other belief systems!):"

Sorry but most Buddhist specifically those in Thailand would not agree with you.

When Buddha was born he walked 7 steps and 7 flowers grew behind him. If that isn't faith or myth, I don't know what is. Buddha stood before a bunch of elephants in a stampede and calmed them just by his presence,

Your statements about the teachings being valid regardless of the person, that could also be said with Christian, Islam and Hebrew teachings.

You might want to look at Bahai faith, they believe all of the religions known founders were profits of the same god.

[willyumiii]

The only reason I am grateful I was forced to go to Catholic school as a child is that it showed me what a fraud the entire superstition called Christianity was.

I can appreciate any religion that encourages people to to be better and to be better to each other.

I know there are many people who are only good people out of fear of being punished if they are not good.

Religion has it's useful place, but not in my life thank you.

A quote I read recently:

"Christians are good people because they fear being punished in hell if they are not good people.

Atheist are good people because they are good people."

I think I am a 6!

I'll swear there ain't no heaven and I'll pray there ain't no hell,

But I'll never know by living, only my dying will tell".......Blood Sweat and Tears

[GAZZPA]

Paedophilia exists. Kids get cancer and die horribly. There are serial killers and tyrants who murder millions, funnily enough often in "God's" name.

Therefore there cannot be an "omnipotent, omnipresent, benevolent" God.

Man is mortal, we will all die one way or another.

All of the other things you mention are mans evil, they may claim in gods name but it is not gods doing.

We have free will, we cannot blame god for the choices we make. So your point about he cannot exist is wrong and frankly you can never say for sure.

[Guest]

Engineers use scientific research to create weapons,, this is a matter of semantics. You need scientific research to create chemical weapons, bombs, guns etc,,, fact.

Science and religion are always compared,, have you not heard of the debate between creationism and evolutionism (scientific theory)

many atheists use Science as an alternative to religion siting the big bang theory as the beginning of the universe without the need for a creator, so they are compared and do not live in different domains (whatever that means)

Science provides knowledge, which can be used for good and bad. The knowledge itself has not have positive or negative value. It is simply a window to the new discoveries and it does provide information for different kind of applications.

Comparing science and religions is very US thing, where many people actually believe in creationism. In a way, as it's a local phenomenon, it should not be my problem, but unfortunately it is as the US still have a lot of power in this world.

A resent study showed that creationism increasing among some groups in the US.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/republicans-belief-in-evolution-plummets-poll-reveals/

I believe that these people will not get the full power of the country, but there is always fear that it might happen some day. How do you reason with a person, who says "but god told me to do so"?

Creator would also require it's creator. Or on the other hand we could say that the Universe was always there. The big bang was simply an moment of annihilation of a new Universe in line of series of Universes.

God can be the ultimate answer for some. We others wish to dig deeper than that.

[willyumiii]

Fear is the mother of all religions.

Religion is the mother of all evil.

[GAZZPA]

look at all the misery , wars, hunger in

the world

i can blame one major thing for this: all the crap about a god or another belief causing all this and men misusing it for their power, greed, money, benefits

rubbish, we do this to each other with or without religion, poor argument with no merit.

[sfbandung]

Paedophilia exists. Kids get cancer and die horribly. There are serial killers and tyrants who murder millions, funnily enough often in "God's" name.

Therefore there cannot be an "omnipotent, omnipresent, benevolent" God.

Man is mortal, we will all die one way or another.

All of the other things you mention are mans evil, they may claim in gods name but it is not gods doing.

We have free will, we cannot blame god for the choices we make. So your point about he cannot exist is wrong and frankly you can never say for sure

Then he is not God. God is (by all religion's definition) "all knowing, all powerful and loves us"

If he allows the actions of an evil man then he either didn't know, didn't care, or was powerless to stop it. Please don't come back with the "evil is actually good" argument and that he did it for our own good. That's absurd. People of faith love to have their cake and eat it, over and over.

[GAZZPA]

Gazpa, while your post was pleasant to read you should know that in science - quite different from our daily language - a "theory" is about as good as it gets. This is a common argument used by Creationists to cast doubt where there is none. To make it more confusing, a "law" is of a lesser order than a "theory". More accurate definitions on the Web, I'm just telling you because using the "theory" fallacy destroys all the good arguments you may have.

I disagree, Science theory can and does become Science fact.

Example: Sir Alexander Fleming discovered and theorized that a substance found on a mould had qualities that may kill infections. We now know this to be Science fact as it was developed into Penicillin.

So a theory is exactly that, a theory. It may be in Science circles that a theory is almost as good as it gets but in truth it is still not proven. Also, if you were correct in that a theory is as good as it gets then Science has no more merit in explaining how the universe came about then religion.

lastly, I think it is wrong to state that Creationists use theory to cast doubt when there is none. There is doubt, it is not certain and just for your reference I am not claiming to be a creationist.

[Dimpys Dad]

If any religion could offer one shred of scientifically valid evidence that god exists, I would accept that. But it hasn't happened. And the "near death" experiences are just that, near death, not dead. I think Hawking said something like "religion is fairy tales told to those afraid of the dark". Someone once said religion is one way to get good people to do bad things. Think of shooting girls and blowing up schools because you think god wants women to be ignorant and subjugated, etc etc.

I am a Buddhist because it does not require a god or faith in myths. Whether Buddha existed or not is not important. The teachings are. This is a good quote attributed to Buddha (see if you can find something like this in other belief systems!):

"'Do not believe anything merely on the authority of your teachers and priests. But, whatever, after thorough investigation and reflection, you find to agree with reason and experience, as conducive to the good and benefit of one and all of the world at large, accept only that as true, and shape your life in accordance with it.''

Perhaps science has proven the existence of God already, we just won't accept the conclusion. Science is the study of our known world and the known world is created by God. Then what we are constantly seeing, studying, dissecting and observing is the results, the product if you will, of God's power and existence. Problem is we refuse to accept his existence based on evidence and therefore continue to look for God Himself as final proof of His existence.

It is like observing a work of architecture and not believing there was an architect or craftsmen who designed it and built it.

[NoshowJones]

You die ,end of road ,there is nothing .

No one knows until someone dies and comes back and tells us.