Are you an Atheist/Believer?

[RandomSand]

Wikipedia starts with this:

The term spirituality lacks a definitive definition, although social scientists have defined spirituality as the search for "the sacred," where "the sacred" is broadly defined as that which is set apart from the ordinary and worthy of veneration.

Yes, that's wishy-washy.

For me; "spirituality" means the state of our spirit. For example; We might be in "high spirits" which is usually taken to mean we're in a spontaneous mood and are expressing ourselves efficiently.

Edited January 17, 2014 by RandomSand

[notmyself]

Wikipedia starts with this:

The term spirituality lacks a definitive definition, although social scientists have defined spirituality as the search for "the sacred," where "the sacred" is broadly defined as that which is set apart from the ordinary and worthy of veneration.

Yes, that's wishy-washy.

For me; "spirituality" means the state of our spirit. For example; We might be in "high spirits" which is usually taken to mean we're in a spontaneous mood and are expressing ourselves efficiently.

For me; "spirituality" means the state of our spirit.

Self reference.

[wym]

OK, off the top of my head - the search for meaning and understanding of reality beyond that of the material world and the illusions of my petty ego.

And I've got no problem with "wishy washy", intellectualism is 99% linguistic masturbation.

[wym]

Yes looked up difference, and I'm certainly a Deist rather than a Theist, at least wrt capital-G God.

[RandomSand]

Wikipedia starts with this:

The term spirituality lacks a definitive definition, although social scientists have defined spirituality as the search for "the sacred," where "the sacred" is broadly defined as that which is set apart from the ordinary and worthy of veneration.

Yes, that's wishy-washy.

For me; "spirituality" means the state of our spirit. For example; We might be in "high spirits" which is usually taken to mean we're in a spontaneous mood and are expressing ourselves efficiently.

For me; "spirituality" means the state of our spirit.

Self reference.

[notmyself]

Wikipedia starts with this:

The term spirituality lacks a definitive definition, although social scientists have defined spirituality as the search for "the sacred," where "the sacred" is broadly defined as that which is set apart from the ordinary and worthy of veneration.

Yes, that's wishy-washy.

For me; "spirituality" means the state of our spirit. For example; We might be in "high spirits" which is usually taken to mean we're in a spontaneous mood and are expressing ourselves efficiently.

For me; "spirituality" means the state of our spirit.

Self reference.

Aye, it's a bitch when someone can take down your entire argument with just two words.

[sirineou]

Yes looked up difference, and I'm certainly a Deist rather than a Theist, at least wrt capital-G God.

welcome to our side, tell your friends, we got cookies

I am being cute, of course you alway knew what you were.When talking about a subject as complex as this it is easy to get lost in definitions.

Deism is a big tent, and when there you are in good company, most of the founding fathers of the USA were deists hence the separation of church and state in our constitution, people like Spinoza " god is the sum total of all the physical forces that govern the universe" or

Einstein who said and I quote

'"My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble minds. That deeply emotional conviction of the presence of a superior reasoning power, which is revealed in the incomprehensible universe, forms my idea of God."

Edited January 17, 2014 by sirineou

[sustento]

as a committed scientologist (operating thetan level 7) i sometimes wonder at the bizarre religions other people follow. Of course they are complete nonsense but i try to stay polite and understanding

Whats a thetan ?

[RandomSand]

Expressionism is a term that embraces an early 20th century style of art, music and literature that is charged with an emotional and spiritual vision of the world.

EDVARD MUNCH (1863-1944)
'The Scream', 1893 (oil, tempera and pastel on board)

Munch’s painting of ‘The Scream’ (1893) was equally influential. It provides us with a psychological blueprint for Expressionist art: distorted shapes and exaggerated colors that amplify a sense of anxiety and alienation. ‘The Scream’ is Munch’s own voice crying in the wilderness, a prophetic voice that declares the Expressionist message, fifteen years before the term was invented. "I was walking along the road with two friends. The sun set. I felt a tinge of melancholy. Suddenly the sky became a bloody red. I stopped, leaned against the railing, dead tired. And I looked at the flaming clouds that hung like blood and a sword over the blue-black fjord and city. My friends walked on. I stood there, trembling with fright. And I felt a loud, unending scream piercing nature."

http://www.artyfactory.com/art_appreciation/art_movements/expressionism.htm

[sirineou]

Expressionism is a term that embraces an early 20th century style of art, music and literature that is charged with an emotional and spiritual vision of the world.

EDVARD MUNCH (1863-1944)

'The Scream', 1893 (oil, tempera and pastel on board)

Munch’s painting of ‘The Scream’ (1893) was equally influential. It provides us with a psychological blueprint for Expressionist art: distorted shapes and exaggerated colors that amplify a sense of anxiety and alienation. ‘The Scream’ is Munch’s own voice crying in the wilderness, a prophetic voice that declares the Expressionist message, fifteen years before the term was invented. "I was walking along the road with two friends. The sun set. I felt a tinge of melancholy. Suddenly the sky became a bloody red. I stopped, leaned against the railing, dead tired. And I looked at the flaming clouds that hung like blood and a sword over the blue-black fjord and city. My friends walked on. I stood there, trembling with fright. And I felt a loud, unending scream piercing nature."

http://www.artyfactory.com/art_appreciation/art_movements/expressionism.htm

is he having a spiritual experience or is he having a mini stroke?

[RandomSand]

Aye, it's a bitch when someone can take down your entire argument with just two words.

Argument? that would imply opposing view points... so what's yours ?

[notmyself]

Aye, it's a bitch when someone can take down your entire argument with just two words.

Argument? that would imply opposing view points... so what's yours ?

? Errr You self reference as I pointed out, though to be fair I did not really point that out specifically and I apologise for that. There is no question that I have made an error and I am willing to admit that. I have a severe failing in so far that when one says something akin to 'it is because it is' I understand it as being a meaningless piece of drivel. So bad do I feel that I have emailed BritishBonfire.com and asked them to put a notice 'please do not eat' on all of their fires.

[wym]

Yes looked up difference, and I'm certainly a Deist rather than a Theist, at least wrt capital-G God.

welcome to our side, tell your friends, we got cookies:D

I am being cute, of course you alway knew what you were.When talking about a subject as complex as this it is easy to get lost in definitions.

Deism is a big tent, and when there you are in good company, most of the founding fathers of the USA were deists hence the separation of church and state in our constitution, people like Spinoza " god is the sum total of all the physical forces that govern the universe" or

Einstein who said and I quote

'"[/size]My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble minds. That deeply emotional conviction of the presence of a superior reasoning power, which is revealed in the incomprehensible universe, forms my idea of God."[/size]

Well obviously Spinoza's definition is a tautology isn't it.

But we all are in the "believer's" camp aren't we even if we are opposed to any dogmatic organized religion. . .

[pastafarian]

Saw this a while ago in one of the local forums (Chiang Rai/Mai?) and definitely worth watching, shows the 'work' being done by missionaries here in Thailand.

[Dimpys Dad]

Atheism is simply a term designed to describe some one who does not accept your theistic assertion. It describes nothing else about the person.

Not designed at all.

Theism is a claim that there is an intervening god so atheism is a rejection of the claim in so much that 'I don't believe you' is.

Dude ,, did you know your chicken stopped dancing?

even your chicken is getting tired of this endless moving in circles

Atheism is simply a term, personally I don't like it at all , I would rather be called a skeptic.

I appreciate that comment. Although atheism is a term, it applies to anyone who unequivocally denies the existence of a Supreme Being/Intelligence/God outside the realm of the natural world. It is very difficult, if not senseless, to debate the existence of God with them. However, a skeptic implies an open mind and most skeptics are willing to discuss the subject, but the challenge for the believer is to get through the "skepticism", right?

(Hope the chicken gets well. Makes me laugh when I see it dancing)

[sirineou]

Yes looked up difference, and I'm certainly a Deist rather than a Theist, at least wrt capital-G God.

welcome to our side, tell your friends, we got cookies:D

I am being cute, of course you alway knew what you were.When talking about a subject as complex as this it is easy to get lost in definitions.

Deism is a big tent, and when there you are in good company, most of the founding fathers of the USA were deists hence the separation of church and state in our constitution, people like Spinoza " god is the sum total of all the physical forces that govern the universe" or

Einstein who said and I quote

'"[/size]My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble minds. That deeply emotional conviction of the presence of a superior reasoning power, which is revealed in the incomprehensible universe, forms my idea of God."[/size]

Well obviously Spinoza's definition is a tautology isn't it.

But we all are in the "believer's" camp aren't we even if we are opposed to any dogmatic organized religion. . .

every one is a believer, no one goes through life in utter disbelief doubting everything,

The problem is how you form your beliefs

do you do it based on supporting evidence or do you do it based on faith.

I am afraid the word has being usurped by the organised religion community and now has loaded connotations,

Hence the title of this thread.

our beliefs are based on evidence, but since our knowledge is limited so are our beliefs tempered by the limitations of our knowledge, as our knowledge increases we adjust our beliefs accordingly

when we were children be believed in a lot of things, now we know better.

incremental advancements in knowledge adjust our beliefs incrementally

IMHO I don't believe we will ever know all there is to know, so there will always be room for adjustment in our beliefs.

Dogmatic organised or even disorganised religion attempts to short circuit this process of rational development of beliefs , and replace it with faith.

[thailiketoo]

I guess you would call me an atheist. But it would never occur to me to question the existence of god.

Or Tinkerbell.

To say I don't believe in a god is not correct. I never thought about it. I know what causes lightening (allegory).

You might as well say I don't believe in Tinkerbell. But why would you?

Is there a special word for people who don't believe in Tinkerbell?

If you believe in Tinkerbell, I think you need some meds; or god.

I came to Thailand because 98% of the people in Thailand don't believe in god. They are Buddhists. So they don't need meds in my opinion.

I equate the belief in god with the belief in Tinkerbell. If you believe in god or Tinkerbell or god you need help.

God and Tinkerbell are some nonsense words that some writer made up. Why would you ask if I believed in them?

So in answer to the question am I an atheist? No. I am a Buddhist. Buddhists by definition don't believe in god but who cares it just never comes up.

So you can tell me it is logical to believe in a god and my answer would be; you need meds.

Edited January 18, 2014 by thailiketoo

[Ulysses G.]

I came to Thailand because 98% of the people in Thailand don't believe in god. They are Buddhists. So they don't need meds in my opinion.

Most Thais think that Buddha is God. Maybe you need the meds?

[thailiketoo]

I came to Thailand because 98% of the people in Thailand don't believe in god. They are Buddhists. So they don't need meds in my opinion.

Most Thais think that Buddha is God. Maybe you need the meds?

Nope

Gautama Buddha rejected the existence of a creator deity refused to endorse many views on creation and stated that questions on the origin of the world are not ultimately useful for ending suffering.

If you want to discuss the religious beliefs of bar girls that is more into animism.

Edited January 18, 2014 by thailiketoo

[wym]

I came to Thailand because 98% of the people in Thailand don't believe in god. They are Buddhists. So they don't need meds in my opinion.

Most Thais think that Buddha is God. Maybe you need the meds?

No. Buddhism doesn't include any deity to be worshiped, more of a philosophy of how to live life based on a pretty scientific approach, don't take anything on faith, just try the practices and observe the results.

Siddhartha was a human teacher, albeit a very advanced soul, but not an object of worship.

Now all the pre-Buddhist, Hindu and animist practices are all mixed in Thai culture, but what I'm saying holds for Buddhism proper.

[thailiketoo]

I came to Thailand because 98% of the people in Thailand don't believe in god. They are Buddhists. So they don't need meds in my opinion.

Most Thais think that Buddha is God. Maybe you need the meds?

No. Buddhism doesn't include any deity to be worshiped, more of a philosophy of how to live life based on a pretty scientific approach, don't take anything on faith, just try the practices and observe the results.

Siddhartha was a human teacher, albeit a very advanced soul, but not an object of worship.

Now all the pre-Buddhist, Hindu and animist practices are all mixed in Thai culture, but what I'm saying holds for Buddhism proper.

I agree and add that being an atheist just doesn't come up. Nor does being a tinkerbellist. Do you hear of a lot of Farang walking into Wats and asking monks to justify their belief in the non existence of god? How many monks get asked why they are an atheist?

[canuckamuck]

I guess you would call me an atheist. But it would never occur to me to question the existence of god.

Or Tinkerbell.

To say I don't believe in a god is not correct. I never thought about it. I know what causes lightening (allegory).

You might as well say I don't believe in Tinkerbell. But why would you?

Is there a special word for people who don't believe in Tinkerbell?

If you believe in Tinkerbell, I think you need some meds; or god.

I came to Thailand because 98% of the people in Thailand don't believe in god. They are Buddhists. So they don't need meds in my opinion.

I equate the belief in god with the belief in Tinkerbell. If you believe in god or Tinkerbell or god you need help.

God and Tinkerbell are some nonsense words that some writer made up. Why would you ask if I believed in them?

So in answer to the question am I an atheist? No. I am a Buddhist. Buddhists by definition don't believe in god but who cares it just never comes up.

So you can tell me it is logical to believe in a god and my answer would be; you need meds.

Have you ever seen the 31 levels of Buddhist supernatural realms, Divas and giants, and all sorts of crazy things that live for 100's of 1000 years.

They also have a heaven and hell tossed in there for good measure. Not to mention Steve jobs (recent addition). Not very scientific if you ask me.

Edited January 18, 2014 by canuckamuck

[thailiketoo]

I guess you would call me an atheist. But it would never occur to me to question the existence of god.

Or Tinkerbell.

To say I don't believe in a god is not correct. I never thought about it. I know what causes lightening (allegory).

You might as well say I don't believe in Tinkerbell. But why would you?

Is there a special word for people who don't believe in Tinkerbell?

If you believe in Tinkerbell, I think you need some meds; or god.

I came to Thailand because 98% of the people in Thailand don't believe in god. They are Buddhists. So they don't need meds in my opinion.

I equate the belief in god with the belief in Tinkerbell. If you believe in god or Tinkerbell or god you need help.

God and Tinkerbell are some nonsense words that some writer made up. Why would you ask if I believed in them?

So in answer to the question am I an atheist? No. I am a Buddhist. Buddhists by definition don't believe in god but who cares it just never comes up.

So you can tell me it is logical to believe in a god and my answer would be; you need meds.

Have you ever seen the 31 levels of Buddhist supernatural realms, Divas and giants, and all sorts of crazy things that live for 100's of 1000 years.

They also have a heaven and hell tossed in there for good measure. Not to mention Steve jobs (recent addition). Not very scientific if you ask me.

I didn't say anything about science. Maybe you meant to respond to a different post.

[Ulysses G.]

I came to Thailand because 98% of the people in Thailand don't believe in god. They are Buddhists. So they don't need meds in my opinion.

Most Thais think that Buddha is God. Maybe you need the meds?

No. Buddhism doesn't include any deity to be worshiped, more of a philosophy of how to live life based on a pretty scientific approach, don't take anything on faith, just try the practices and observe the results.

That is also my concept of Buddhism, but not what many Thais and other Buddhists believe. Many Thai Buddhists actually pray to the Buddha, asking for favors - much like a Christian praying to an elderly male deity with a long beard. You said that 98% of the people in Thailand don't believe in God and that is just not true.

[RandomSand]

The problem is with the original post.

First we're presented with a scale of belief in a supernatural being.

Then we're asked the question "Are you a believer or non believer?"

To top it off the topic title is "are you an atheist/believer"!.

Personally; I'm an Atheist yet I do have strong beliefs *in something*.. but not a god that is separate and distinct from anything else.

[thailiketoo]

I came to Thailand because 98% of the people in Thailand don't believe in god. They are Buddhists. So they don't need meds in my opinion.

Most Thais think that Buddha is God. Maybe you need the meds?

No. Buddhism doesn't include any deity to be worshiped, more of a philosophy of how to live life based on a pretty scientific approach, don't take anything on faith, just try the practices and observe the results.

That is also my concept of Buddhism, but not what many Thais and other Buddhists believe. Many Thai Buddhists actually pray to the Buddha, asking for favors - much like a Christian praying to an elderly male deity with a long beard. You said that 98% of the people in Thailand don't believe in God and that is just not true.

I think you are evaluating Thai behavior through Western eyes. They have no concept of god. It is a concept of luck or spirits; more of an animist concept than a dessert religions concept. They offer food and drink and incense to a spirit or ancestor not a single divine creator. You might say ghosts instead of god. Good and bad spirits are zipping all over Thailand but they don't bother Farang. The Farang ghosts don't come to Thailand because they don't like garlic. This was explained to me by a Thai person.

[RandomSand]

That is also my concept of Buddhism, but not what many Thais and other Buddhists believe. Many Thai Buddhists actually pray to the Buddha, asking for favors - much like a Christian praying to an elderly male deity with a long beard. You said that 98% of the people in Thailand don't believe in God and that is just not true.

I think you are evaluating Thai behavior through Western eyes. They have no concept of god. It is a concept of luck or spirits; more of an animist concept than a dessert religions concept. They offer food and drink and incense to a spirit or ancestor not a single divine creator. You might say ghosts instead of god. Good and bad spirits are zipping all over Thailand but they don't bother Farang. The Farang ghosts don't come to Thailand because they don't like garlic. This was explained to me by a Thai person.

I feel we're presuming too much when we think that we can know about other people's prayers.

[StreetCowboy]

...I think you are evaluating Thai behavior through Western eyes. They have no concept of god. It is a concept of luck or spirits; more of an animist concept than a dessert religions concept. They offer food and drink and incense to a spirit or ancestor not a single divine creator. You might say ghosts instead of god. Good and bad spirits are zipping all over Thailand but they don't bother Farang. The Farang ghosts don't come to Thailand because they don't like garlic. This was explained to me by a Thai person.

Polytheists are theists too.

[thailiketoo]

...I think you are evaluating Thai behavior through Western eyes. They have no concept of god. It is a concept of luck or spirits; more of an animist concept than a dessert religions concept. They offer food and drink and incense to a spirit or ancestor not a single divine creator. You might say ghosts instead of god. Good and bad spirits are zipping all over Thailand but they don't bother Farang. The Farang ghosts don't come to Thailand because they don't like garlic. This was explained to me by a Thai person.

Polytheists are theists too.

I didn't know they didn't like garlic.

[boomerangutang]

I believe in science and nature.

I was steeped in Christianity in late teens. Read the story of the Buddha at 20, which soaked in to me like butter in to hot bread. Then lived at a yogi community for a few years where I came to love and appreciate Hinduism. I've called myself Buddhist (in the Mahayana, not the Hinayana tradition) for forty years. However, now I realize I don't need to adhere to any belief system. Nature, the sun, science, are infiniately fascinating for me. I don't need any more lectures. I can still get high as a kite just from meditating on my own. I don't need any more dogma. Incidentally, the more I see and hear about Hinayana Buddhism as it manifests in Thailand, the more I want to keep it at arm's length. There's a new Thai temple in my village, and the noise pollution they spread for Km's around is rude. They're very imposing and garish.