EC rejects government’s 130-billion baht rice loans

[rubl]

My family from Ubon just called and said they have received their rice payment this afternoon and their uncle in Buriram had also received it this morning. If you have family members in the North or Northeast, check with them and have them go ask at the office, most probably the payments are now ready to be claimed. Good news indeed.

and those from Lower North and Central regions still waiting and therefore protesting

[jayboy]

My family from Ubon just called and said they have received their rice payment this afternoon and their uncle in Buriram had also received it this morning. If you have family members in the North or Northeast, check with them and have them go ask at the office, most probably the payments are now ready to be claimed. Good news indeed.

and those from Lower North and Central regions still waiting and therefore protesting

Yes, and the news from the rest is double talk.No payments have been made and the farmers are on the march.They have seen through Thaksin and his government.Soon they will join up with the heroes on the Bangkok streets.The final countdown is soon to begin.

[FangFerang]

Nope, nope nope.

I can understand refusing payment, but refusing a sale...to fund the pledges....

Really. What translucent transparency here.

Like no one will notice.

"You are responsible for your debts."

"But, sir, we have sales to support those debts."

"No, no, none of that. The sales need...more scrutiny, more committees, and many more delays. We cannot have this resolved. It goes against the order of things."

Like a twisted scene from Oliver Twist.

[ramrod711]

The rice scheme is an on going scheme. Must the caretaker government stop paying all their employees' wages? Before 2011 election, AV administration approved many populists subsidy and carried on during caretaker period. Should all be stopped now? I heard these were approved by present team of commissioners. IMO, they are sabotaging the government's on going projects and bring hardships to the people. Send from my Mobile

they are sabotaging the government's on going projects and bring hardships to the people.

The government sabotaged their own project when they failed, spectacularly, to do some basic math. You know, the kind where you sit down and say, if i pay more than world price for rice where can i sell it.

[Prbkk]

One way or another the farmers will get paid. Even in the event of a new govt, those payments would have to be honoured. The EC is saying the current govt does not have the authority, in caretaker mode, to commit the funds in the way they are proposing

Actually the government doesn't have the funds reserved and has just been told by the EC they cannot commit new loans in care-taker mode.

Also the G2G sales of rice with totally unclear sales prices can be seen as causing harm to the country when prices are lower than what the government paid.

All in all it would seem a case of not having prepared enough. The PM was never a boyscout, but it would seem none in her financial team either

Yes, that is agreed. However, it is impossible to imagine that any future govt, not in caretaker mode, would not honour the agreed price. Yes, that price looks high now/, The policy will have to change as the economy changes focus and direction. Remember that even Japan, Korea and Taiwan provide huge subsidies to rice farmers. Circumstances in Thailand are different but the farmers must be paid the agreed price. for this round.

[englishoak]

One way or another the farmers will get paid. Even in the event of a new govt, those payments would have to be honoured. The EC is saying the current govt does not have the authority, in caretaker mode, to commit the funds in the way they are proposing

Lets hope so.. don't want the farmers to be the ones that pay for these mistakes. I don't think anyone is suggesting the farmers don't get paid, but now they should check the whose rice scam to see how much has been lied and those government to government transactions should be checked too.

I for one would say get the money to the farmers now but let the responsible ministers be personally responsible for the funds.

Well I am going to be controversial here.

STUFF THE FARMERS. TOO BLOODY BAD . They are getting what they deserve now. Before I sympathized but too many want too much and will do anything to get something for their own selfish gains to the detriment of the Nation at large.

they votes this corrupt mob in. What you sow you reap and now they are getting done over like a dogs dinner for being gullible stupid and selling their souls to the devil.

Words fail me.............. but luckily we have a smiley for this kind of post.

[inzman]

So the govt tried to borrow money to pay for the sale of rice to China? In the real world when someone sells something there is usually a profit made. Why do they have to pay China to buy their rice? Something is wrong with this system. Looks like the chickens have come home to roost. Hahahaha,

[robertson468]

One way or another the farmers will get paid. Even in the event of a new govt, those payments would have to be honoured. The EC is saying the current govt does not have the authority, in caretaker mode, to commit the funds in the way they are proposing

No my friend, the EC is saying that it doesn't allow the government to dig a deeper hole to keep their voters happy.

They also said that they don't allow them to bankrupt the framers bank, e.g. use the farmers own money to pay them, but it seems it's too late already for that.

Now take of the pink red goggles

Further more, the Government did not have the money to pay the farmers whilst they were in power, so using the excuse that they had to default because as a caretaker government they could not access the funds would be yet another great WHOOPER. Malfeasance springs to mind? Poor, poor Farmers.

[MobileContent]

This is all very well to make the gov pay for messing up to hell with them but.

1 What about the poor farmers ?

2 What has the EC got to do with any of it ? alt=blink.png pagespeed_url_hash=3007605675 width=20 height=20>

OK OK i admit it i havnt read the mandate of the EC and all its responsibilities, I suppose i should have guessed it would have to rubber stamp any loans of finance, i mean it wouldnt be the treasury or some other financial dept of course not, its the EC i should have known that from all the dept of silly walks they have here .... alt=rolleyes.gif pagespeed_url_hash=2070704717 width=20 height=20>

The EC are not on the side of the government. It is politics. They back the Yellows and are part of the Bangkok elite.

The EC should be all fired.

[MobileContent]

As of today the EC is blocking an attempt by the government to pay the farmers - fact

Take note of Thai philosophy, yesterday is gone we can not change, we do not know the events of tomorrow, Today the EC is stalling our money!

So who do you think gets the blame!

According to guys like you, the EC. According to fair people, the government who created this mess.

-Did you know that payments were already overdue for months before Yingluck dissolved parliament?

-Did you know that they were trying to sell rice for months before Yingluck dissolved parliament?

-Did you know that they were trying to borrow more money for months before Yingluck dissolved parliament?

-Did you know that they sold rice BELOW MARKET PRICE to Chinese trading companies?

If they would at least have sold AT MARKET PRICE maybe there would have been some more money for the farmers (and less for the trading companies......)

Its called subsidize. Happens all the time in Europe and even in the US.

The different however with Europe, the US etc is that we only allow the EC to organize the election and nothing else but then again TIT.

[Gweiloman]

Very good and irrefutable points raised about the incompetency of the current government. Any well educated person would surely see where the fault and blame lies.

But,

Fact 1) the caretaker govt wants to sell the packed rice - EC blocks it

Fact 2) the caretaker govt wants to use the bank's liquidity for rice payment - EC blocks it, or rather has voiced that they are opposed to this

Fact 3) the caretaker govt wants to sell rice to China - EC blocks it

Fact 4) the caretaker govt wants to borrow money to pay the rice farmers - EC blocks it

Tell me how easy it would be for PTP to tell the farmers, we tried doing everything we can to help but ........

[JRSoul]

As of today the EC is blocking an attempt by the government to pay the farmers - fact

Take note of Thai philosophy, yesterday is gone we can not change, we do not know the events of tomorrow, Today the EC is stalling our money!

So who do you think gets the blame!

According to guys like you, the EC. According to fair people, the government who created this mess.

-Did you know that payments were already overdue for months before Yingluck dissolved parliament?

-Did you know that they were trying to sell rice for months before Yingluck dissolved parliament?

-Did you know that they were trying to borrow more money for months before Yingluck dissolved parliament?

-Did you know that they sold rice BELOW MARKET PRICE to Chinese trading companies.

If the would at least have sold AT MARKET PRICE maybe there would have been some more money for the farmers (and less for the trading companies......)

Government undoubtedly created the situation

Thailand is now in this situation the farmers are not getting paid

A loan can fix this situation and ease the burden on the lower income farmers and the bank

The EC is refusing to sanction such a loan

When you learn to live in today and not the past you will understand

Live in today, who gives a rat's about tomorrow. Been paid, have we?

[scorecard]

Here you see the formulation of a decision by the EC to hold a payment regardless of the fact that the payment will have to honoured and delivered, a delaying tactic to cause the government hardship, but also resulting in potential hardship to the lower income farmers, and you wonder at the reason the rural electorate vote the way they do!

Pure Red propaganda.

They tried to borrow for months but nobody was giving them the money anyhow. Blaming the EC for this mess is not fair. The big question is: Why do they have to borrow more if they have already borrowed THB 800,000,000,000 and when they have over 10,000,000,000 KG of rice in stock?

Because they have not sold the 10,000,000,000 kgs..(I thought you might have worked that one out for yourself, but pleased to assist).... holding the payment to cause hardship to the farmers is not going to sell the stockpile any faster, in fact have the EC not commented that it may be illegal to do so!

Then surely that reinforces that the whole scheme is a financial farce, designed and implemented by immoral and unprofessional people.

[SICHONSTEVE]

But he said that he has learned that the government has already used the bank liquidity for rice payment, therefore the EC has warned that it has to take its own responsibility.

Whoops.

How much of it?

And did any get to the farmers?

I believe it was 3 Bn a day as reported yesterday by MCOT.

So their fingers are still in the cookie jar even though they were told they could not borrow without permission. Yet another breech of the constitution.

This is seriously GAME OVER! The NACC will have yet another case to examine here, and Yingluck can surely no longer survive.

Wondering what is going to go through the minds of the rice farmers who are into the illegal loan sharks for a shitload of cash? I suspect fear!!

Goodnight Vienna

At this rate the NACC will have to find some more employees and prioritise the enquiries because of the amounting number of cases building up against these thieves.

Maybe upsetting the EC was not such a good idea after all!!! Tee he!!

[tominbkk]

How come the Eloctoral Commission has anything to say in this matter? Can anyone please explain?

A caretaker government have very limited money. They can follow already implemented rules, but anything that get close to new have to be looked at by the EC. The reason behind this is to stop the ruling party using state funds to sway votes before an election.

Thank you, I wish tey had a few competent writers like you on the Nation payroll to properly explain things!

[BuddyPinkham]

PM LY, PTP are all singing: OPPPS< I DID IT AGAIN!

[Basil B]

Channel new Asia is reporting that the NCCC is expected to announce it's findings into the pledging scheme today which could result in ministers, government officials, civil servants etc being indicted.

If, by any chance, this actually happens how far up the ladder will culpability go or will it be a case of the usual lower level scapegoats ?

She was out shopping at the time so and did not know what was going on...

[BuddyPinkham]

This is all very well to make the gov pay for messing up to hell with them but.

1 What about the poor farmers ?

2 What has the EC got to do with any of it ?

OK OK i admit it i havnt read the mandate of the EC and all its responsibilities, I suppose i should have guessed it would have to rubber stamp any loans of finance, i mean it wouldnt be the treasury or some other financial dept of course not, its the EC i should have known that from all the dept of silly walks they have here ....

Actually, from my understanding, the EC has quite a bit of power in a Care Taker Government such as this. They could even decide not to hold the election on Feb 2nd and choose another date as long as it is within the 180 days of the dissolution of Parliament.

[rubl]

One way or another the farmers will get paid. Even in the event of a new govt, those payments would have to be honoured. The EC is saying the current govt does not have the authority, in caretaker mode, to commit the funds in the way they are proposing

Actually the government doesn't have the funds reserved and has just been told by the EC they cannot commit new loans in care-taker mode.

Also the G2G sales of rice with totally unclear sales prices can be seen as causing harm to the country when prices are lower than what the government paid.

All in all it would seem a case of not having prepared enough. The PM was never a boyscout, but it would seem none in her financial team either

Yes, that is agreed. However, it is impossible to imagine that any future govt, not in caretaker mode, would not honour the agreed price. Yes, that price looks high now/, The policy will have to change as the economy changes focus and direction. Remember that even Japan, Korea and Taiwan provide huge subsidies to rice farmers. Circumstances in Thailand are different but the farmers must be paid the agreed price. for this round.

That's beside the point here. The current care-taker government cannot take out new loans and government official which cause harm (like in loosing money) can be prosecuted.

Of course any new government will honour the existing commitments as those are legally binding, but a new government would be in a position to take out new loan, or actually make them part of the National Budget so that transparancy is also honoured.

[Thait Spot]

The fat lady is warming up, the pooch is getting screwed and Elvis is at the door.

And now the end is near, and so I face....

I'm not sure Yaowappa can sing

Suthep's putch is certainly being screwed.

And the sound of "Suspicious Minds" is unavoidable

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Thait Spot]

As of today the EC is blocking an attempt by the government to pay the farmers - fact

Take note of Thai philosophy, yesterday is gone we can not change, we do not know the events of tomorrow, Today the EC is stalling our money!

So who do you think gets the blame!

Not blocking anything.

There was a finite credit limit agreed by PTP to fund the scheme through the bank. It proved not to be enough. Its not something that just raised its head now and was certainly something that should have been considered in depth prior to dissolving the house. Poor governance. Piss poor governance.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[SjaakNL2013]

First of all good to see that the EC didn't approve that loan. The loan will be a burden around the neck from the taxpayers.

The other side of this step is that the poor, mostly red, rice farmers run out of money.and already the bill get from many years of mismanagement of Thailand.

Most farmers are not much more then beggars who live from loan to loan.Those loans, mostly granted by rice mills and middleman take about 40% to 60% of the farmers income. With the loans the the middle group keep power on farmers and play group of farmers against others.

[Thait Spot]

Here you see the formulation of a decision by the EC to hold a payment regardless of the fact that the payment will have to honoured and delivered, a delaying tactic to cause the government hardship, but also resulting in potential hardship to the lower income farmers, and you wonder at the reason the rural electorate vote the way they do!

Pure Red propaganda.

They tried to borrow for months but nobody was giving them the money anyhow. Blaming the EC for this mess is not fair. The big question is: Why do they have to borrow more if they have already borrowed THB 800,000,000,000 and when they have over 10,000,000,000 KG of rice in stock?

Because they have not sold the 10,000,000,000 kgs..(I thought you might have worked that one out for yourself, but pleased to assist).... holding the payment to cause hardship to the farmers is not going to sell the stockpile any faster, in fact have the EC not commented that it may be illegal to do so!

Sure. If its a new deal with the Chinese to sell a million tonnes at below market price then it should be kicked out.

Similarly if the deal is over 12 months then its making a commitment to the next government and that's against the rules too

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[tullynagardy]

Most farmers are not much more then beggars

What a bizarre comment?

My in laws run a moderately successful farm with rice and rubber their main crops. They also have a little livestock and don`t owe anyone any money. Even if they did the idea anyone that owes money is a beggar is ridiculous.

[Thait Spot]

This is all very well to make the gov pay for messing up to hell with them but.

1 What about the poor farmers ?

2 What has the EC got to do with any of it ? alt=blink.png pagespeed_url_hash=3007605675 width=20 height=20>

OK OK i admit it i havnt read the mandate of the EC and all its responsibilities, I suppose i should have guessed it would have to rubber stamp any loans of finance, i mean it wouldnt be the treasury or some other financial dept of course not, its the EC i should have known that from all the dept of silly walks they have here .... alt=rolleyes.gif pagespeed_url_hash=2070704717 width=20 height=20>

The EC are not on the side of the government. It is politics. They back the Yellows and are part of the Bangkok elite.

The EC should be all fired.

Of course. The missing billions are all down to the EC

Now, when less than 50% has reached the farmers, the misplaced billions are needed.

Too late. Thaksin and that fat cats have fatter wallets and it won't come from there will it.

Now get off daddy's PC and grow up

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[bigbamboo]

This just blows my mind. How does Taksin keep getting the votes?

Very confusing to me. You do this and they still vote for you?

Amazing!

Why would Thais blame the action of EC on the government? Why is that confusing for you?

It's not the action of the EC it's the reaction to the government's mismanagement.

The government is to blame and the farmers know that.

[473geo]

Here you see the formulation of a decision by the EC to hold a payment regardless of the fact that the payment will have to honoured and delivered, a delaying tactic to cause the government hardship, but also resulting in potential hardship to the lower income farmers, and you wonder at the reason the rural electorate vote the way they do!

Pure Red propaganda.

They tried to borrow for months but nobody was giving them the money anyhow. Blaming the EC for this mess is not fair. The big question is: Why do they have to borrow more if they have already borrowed THB 800,000,000,000 and when they have over 10,000,000,000 KG of rice in stock?

Because they have not sold the 10,000,000,000 kgs..(I thought you might have worked that one out for yourself, but pleased to assist).... holding the payment to cause hardship to the farmers is not going to sell the stockpile any faster, in fact have the EC not commented that it may be illegal to do so!

Then surely that reinforces that the whole scheme is a financial farce, designed and implemented by immoral and unprofessional people.

To view the cause may or may not assist the fix, however, if a fix is available, a party that stops the application of such a fix becomes the root of the ongoing problem.

I have witnessed many ill informed comments on the rice subsidy and the benefit, or not, to farmers, my personal experience is to register an increase in the per kg rate and profit margins, above the levels created by the democrats when they subsidised fertiliser to maintain the profit margin for the manufacturers, and maintain the cost for the farmer enabling raised output in an already saturated market place.

The main cause for concern is the stockpiling, this may well have resulted from the misconception that a 'subsidy' can be fully recovered, but of course by nature a subsidy is to support the industry concerned, and associated business, and would never be expected to break even or show anything other than a loss.

Corruption may well compound the loss and also result in less for the farmer in some cases, however in my experience selling to the bank direct will take out the 'agents' who are usually accepting the business from COD customers, not those with the ability to wait for payment and store the product.

Of course there are those shouting and screaming about this and that but the reality here is very plain, it currently costs more to produce 1 kg of rice in Thailand than the farmers in the surrounding 'Free market' pricing environment are taking for the end product!

Part of the cost of raising the quality of life in an economy is the loss of cheap labour providing cheap end product.

Did you know in 2009 Thailand already carried +4 million tons of rice stocks, and the price - "Thai white rice prices are 20-25% higher than Vietnamese rice due to... government delays in releasing its large intervention stocks due to concerns on the impact on domestic prices, And they look set to jump a further 30% to 5.21m tonnes next year, helped by a rise of nearly 1m tonnes in 2009-10 production to its highest since at least the 1990"

This would suggest the potential loss of market share and the rise in stockpiles was already evident when PTP took office. So is the solution to diversify and slow the output of rice for a few years, perhaps subsidise the introduction of new crops? or let the price drop through the floor and make smallholding an occupation for the elderly, as it was fast becoming, abandon the rural economy and fuel increased migration into the cities? So far the subsidy has restrained this scenario, but without infrastructure improvements the rice subsidy would appear to be required for some time to come. Let us hope Thailand can ensure the benefit of any future subsidies arrives at the grass roots.

Source of Quote: Agrimoney

[Cnxforever]

This is all very well to make the gov pay for messing up to hell with them but.

1 What about the poor farmers ?

2 What has the EC got to do with any of it ?

OK OK i admit it i havnt read the mandate of the EC and all its responsibilities, I suppose i should have guessed it would have to rubber stamp any loans of finance, i mean it wouldnt be the treasury or some other financial dept of course not, its the EC i should have known that from all the dept of silly walks they have here ....

yes that is what you get from a military dictated constitution - putting five people in charge of the country during this interim period who have no clue what they are doing - and are easily "influenced " by the people who pull the strings in the back ground.

[Baerboxer]

This is all very well to make the gov pay for messing up to hell with them but.

1 What about the poor farmers ?

2 What has the EC got to do with any of it ?

OK OK i admit it i havnt read the mandate of the EC and all its responsibilities, I suppose i should have guessed it would have to rubber stamp any loans of finance, i mean it wouldnt be the treasury or some other financial dept of course not, its the EC i should have known that from all the dept of silly walks they have here ....

yes that is what you get from a military dictated constitution - putting five people in charge of the country during this interim period who have no clue what they are doing - and are easily "influenced " by the people who pull the strings in the back ground.

As opposed to a one man in charge of a bunch of puppets, who also has no clue what he's doing, apart from an ability to grow his own wealth by massive, no mega massive percentage.

[aimbc]

The rice scheme is an on going scheme. Must the caretaker government stop paying all their employees' wages? Before 2011 election, AV administration approved many populists subsidy and carried on during caretaker period. Should all be stopped now? I heard these were approved by present team of commissioners. IMO, they are sabotaging the government's on going projects and bring hardships to the people. Send from my Mobile

Correction, The government sabotaged themselves. They had the money to pay the farmers, but apparently, lost track of it. I am sure, it can be found in their pockets. No one to blame but themselves. It's no longer a scheme, but a scam. As the people that it was suppose to receive the help did not get the help. I am surprised you are bold enough to defend this one.