Insulating ceiling/ material ? buy at Global?

[THAIPHUKET]

We are taking out all room ceilings (Termite war) In the process does it make sense to put insulation on top of the new ceilings against heat /cold? What material ? Anyone done it, Is it worth it? House is 30 years old well built only the charming charming termites had a good time with the soft wood.

[masuk]

I've insulated 3 houses in tropical north Australia. The best material to work with is is one of the "poly" fibres.

Fibre glass is not used, mainly as installers refuse to work with it.

Recommended thickness is 15cm, (ye olde 6 inches) If at all possible, have 'Cyclone" roof ventilators fitted. They're available in Chiang Mai. Roof cavity temperatures often reach 70C and getting rid of a lot of this hot air helps considerably.

Best time of day to install is while it's still dark outside. Makes a difference, believe me.

Look up Google for Australian/NZ standards for installing insulation. Lots of good ideas regarding non-covering of light fittings, cable etc.

[Torrens54]

Thanks Masuk,

Not wanting to toss a "spanner in the works" as I've often thought about getting insulation in our roof in CNX, but wasn't there a massive problem in Australia a couple of years ago with various types of insulation?

Some suffered spontaneous combustion, other stuff caused electrical fires and others again, shorted out the electrical wiring.

I'd love to do some thing to cool the top floor of the house but obviously don't want to start a fire etc.

Any further suggestions?

Cheers!

[haybilly]

The last house that I built, in Phuket, we bought rolls of insulation material and put this on top of the upstairs ceilings throughout the upstairs--it made a big difference in keeping the cooling from the AC in the rooms and from stopping the heat of the roof space warming the ceilings--I would definitely recommend it.

Don't ask me where you can buy it since this was Phuket, and in 2003-2004.

P.S. Keeping cold out--never occurred to me in those days.

Edited January 24, 2014 by haybilly

[SeaVisionBurma]

Moving topic to DIY housing forum - link left in Chiang Mai forum

[JesseFrank]

Global has good prices for it. They have with green and with blue logo. The blue one is the premium.

[wayned]

Are the rooms air-conditioned?

[masuk]

Thanks Masuk,

Not wanting to toss a "spanner in the works" as I've often thought about getting insulation in our roof in CNX, but wasn't there a massive problem in Australia a couple of years ago with various types of insulation?

Some suffered spontaneous combustion, other stuff caused electrical fires and others again, shorted out the electrical wiring.

I'd love to do some thing to cool the top floor of the house but obviously don't want to start a fire etc.

Any further suggestions?

Cheers!

I understand that the problems were insufficient training and supervision of installation, aluminium backed batts shorted out on electrical wiring, one or two sad eletrocutions. Nothing wrong with the actual insulating material.

Follow the safety standards set out, in particular,avoid light fittings which might over heat, do no cover electrical cables.

It's a while since I read up on this, and I'd certainly do it again. However, would the suppliers install for you?

[Jay Sata]

If you have down lighters make sure you vent them in the ceiling. A good cheap way of venting/fire protection is to stick plant pots in the ceiling above your lights.

[jacko45k]

Have you considered the option of spraying the underside of the roof with the dense foam?

[Mudcrab]

Have you considered the option of spraying the underside of the roof with the dense foam?

Consider painting the roof white

[Mudcrab]

Thanks Masuk,

Not wanting to toss a "spanner in the works" as I've often thought about getting insulation in our roof in CNX, but wasn't there a massive problem in Australia a couple of years ago with various types of insulation?

Some suffered spontaneous combustion, other stuff caused electrical fires and others again, shorted out the electrical wiring.

I'd love to do some thing to cool the top floor of the house but obviously don't want to start a fire etc.

Any further suggestions?

Cheers!

I understand that the problems were insufficient training and supervision of installation, aluminium backed batts shorted out on electrical wiring, one or two sad eletrocutions. Nothing wrong with the actual insulating material.

Follow the safety standards set out, in particular,avoid light fittings which might over heat, do no cover electrical cables.

It's a while since I read up on this, and I'd certainly do it again. However, would the suppliers install for you?

There were a few electrocutions (3 I think) mainly due to the use of metal staples - straight through the power cables. There were also many reported roof fires.

One of the criterion for selecting electrical cables for installation is the surrounds - free in air - touching something(most common in houses) - partially surrounded by insulation - completely enclosed by insulation.

One of the effects of electricity flowing through a cable is the generation of heat, so we need to consider what this means.

A cable in free air can be sized smaller than a cable surrounded by insulation as the heat can dissipate more easily. If we assume a cable was sized correctly many years ago (assuming it is touching something) and then we suddenly completely surround it by insulation - the heat has nowhere to go. End result can be a fire, and it has happened.

Sorry for making this sound simplistic but there are many do-it-yourselfers out there who may not be aware of this.

[Somtamme]

Try Kingspan website

http://www.kingspaninsulation.com.au

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[lucjoker]

Have you considered the option of spraying the underside of the roof with the dense foam?

expensive and doesn't work !

It still gets hot under it and it's your ceiling that gives the heat to the room,

,

also hot air is trapped under your roof and can't ventilate during the night !

Put any kind of insulation directly on your ceiling .(the pots upside down over your light is a good idea)

[Estrada]

A friend of mine was selling and installing a fire proof fluffy insulation derived from waste paper which he blew into the roof space. The company was on Bangna Trad, Must be plenty of companies who do that. A lot of ceilings are suspended so a lightweight insulation is needed at least 100-150mm deep.

Edited January 25, 2014 by Estrada

[THAIPHUKET]

Thanks for all your replies, was busy with THE WAR ON TERMITES. I.e have not digested what you mailed, will do so later.

Today we opened the bedroom ceiling, the frames holding the ceiling plates munched away. Also I was prepared for it, I was shocked d to see really zero insulation between roof tiles and ceiling. At least the roof is tight.

It comes down to cost/ benefit. Insulate the whole roof or only the bed room (the other rooms are less used on the second floor) or simply incur higher aircon cost.

I need to study the info

[jackflash]

> but wasn't there a massive problem in Australia a couple of years ago with various types of insulation?

This was the "Pink Bats affair".

Was largely a beat-up by the mainstream media who wanted to dismiss the (then) incumbent Government.

Analysis has since shown that the incident rate was actually less than normal industrial average.

The program was actually a big success in improving the heating and cooling efficiency of older homes.

The whole thing has certainly opened my eyes to how the MSM are a bunch of lying scum-bags.

Edited January 25, 2014 by jackflash

[masuk]

Yes indeed, the roof cavity get extremely hot during the day, which is why roofs are ventilated with rotary ventilators.

The insulation prevents the ceilings heating up, which radiate heat down, warming up anything below it.

In northern Australia, the roofs are often painted with a brilliant white paint, ventilators installed and then 15cm of insulation.

It makes an incredible difference, families can sleep in their bedrooms once again without moving downstairs for the summer months.

Here in Chiang Mai, the upstairs bedrooms are pleasantly warm, while downstairs is downright chilly!

[CNXTim]

R12 rating rolls are sufficient for northern Thailand, got mine from Global Mouse, overkill is a waste of money - install carefully and avoid air gaps.

The people who were hurt and killed in Australia were simply rushing to make huge wages on a typically stupid Labor government handout/subsidy.

Cyclone roof vents are a useless expense since they only work when the wind is blowing, which cools the roof anyway.

Use large, static and cheap gable vents, also from Global.

I have done my home, an apartment building rooftop - and I am able to use the lowest rating aircon set to 26 degrees C for very, very low energy use all through the hottest hot season and a very cheap tangi style heater 1.8 Kw (pity we don't have reverse cycle aircon in the loS) during this nasty cold snap - so much for AGW!.

Above advice is based on experience and help from an old friend, a green conversion architect in Australia who still believes in CO2 based AGW (can't get everything right Kevin) .

More here;

http://www.insulationsmart.com/truth_about_r-value.htm

[Torrens54]

The last house that I built, in Phuket, we bought rolls of insulation material and put this on top of the upstairs ceilings throughout the upstairs--it made a big difference in keeping the cooling from the AC in the rooms and from stopping the heat of the roof space warming the ceilings--I would definitely recommend it.

Don't ask me where you can buy it since this was Phuket, and in 2003-2004.

P.S. Keeping cold out--never occurred to me in those days.

Many thanks haybilly, will try Homepro and Global here in CNX.

Yes, "welcome to the Ice Age" never been so cold in CNX as we have been this season....can't last much longer, the "Global Warming Theorists" will all be fretting and that would never do!

[sirchai]

Have you considered the option of spraying the underside of the roof with the dense foam?

Consider painting the roof white

Two People Are Spying On You....

[sirchai]

Better than looking at you................-

Edited January 25, 2014 by sirchai

[sirchai]

Thanks Masuk,

Not wanting to toss a "spanner in the works" as I've often thought about getting insulation in our roof in CNX, but wasn't there a massive problem in Australia a couple of years ago with various types of insulation?

Some suffered spontaneous combustion, other stuff caused electrical fires and others again, shorted out the electrical wiring.

I'd love to do some thing to cool the top floor of the house but obviously don't want to start a fire etc.

Any further suggestions?

Cheers!

I understand that the problems were insufficient training and supervision of installation, aluminium backed batts shorted out on electrical wiring, one or two sad eletrocutions. Nothing wrong with the actual insulating material.

Follow the safety standards set out, in particular,avoid light fittings which might over heat, do no cover electrical cables.

It's a while since I read up on this, and I'd certainly do it again. However, would the suppliers install for you?

There were a few electrocutions (3 I think) mainly due to the use of metal staples - straight through the power cables. There were also many reported roof fires.

One of the criterion for selecting electrical cables for installation is the surrounds - free in air - touching something(most common in houses) - partially surrounded by insulation - completely enclosed by insulation.

One of the effects of electricity flowing through a cable is the generation of heat, so we need to consider what this means.

A cable in free air can be sized smaller than a cable surrounded by insulation as the heat can dissipate more easily. If we assume a cable was sized correctly many years ago (assuming it is touching something) and then we suddenly completely surround it by insulation - the heat has nowhere to go. End result can be a fire, and it has happened.

Sorry for making this sound simplistic but there are many do-it-yourselfers out there who may not be aware of this.

A-M-E-N.-

[louse1953]

O

The last house that I built, in Phuket, we bought rolls of insulation material and put this on top of the upstairs ceilings throughout the upstairs--it made a big difference in keeping the cooling from the AC in the rooms and from stopping the heat of the roof space warming the ceilings--I would definitely recommend it.

Don't ask me where you can buy it since this was Phuket, and in 2003-2004.

P.S. Keeping cold out--never occurred to me in those days.

Many thanks haybilly, will try Homepro and Global here in CNX.

Yes, "welcome to the Ice Age" never been so cold in CNX as we have been this season....can't last much longer, the "Global Warming Theorists" will all be fretting and that would never do!

It's called climate change now,and if you don't' think its happening,you have your head buried in sand.

[sdanielmcev]

When you install the insulation make sure there is a gap between the top of the insulation and the roof underside, otherwise the roof vents will not work properly. Also, you should have some vents on the soffits. FYI: attic vents spin to stop rain from entering, not for cooling.

[JesseFrank]

When you install the insulation make sure there is a gap between the top of the insulation and the roof underside, otherwise the roof vents will not work properly. Also, you should have some vents on the soffits. FYI: attic vents spin to stop rain from entering, not for cooling.

Attic vents spin because hot air in the attic is rising , which in return creates a suction effect .

Edited January 25, 2014 by JesseFrank

[masuk]

When you install the insulation make sure there is a gap between the top of the insulation and the roof underside, otherwise the roof vents will not work properly. Also, you should have some vents on the soffits. FYI: attic vents spin to stop rain from entering, not for cooling.

Here's an interesting video clip, explaining the roof ventilation system, which is to keep the roof cavity cooler. Nothing at all to do with keeping the rain out - it spins due to the heated air inside the roof finding a way out.

[BudRight]

Mix up a wheel barrow of cat manure with 20 gallons of water and 60 pounds of shredded newspaper.

Smear it all over yourself. Now you're ready to install insulation!

[THAIPHUKET]

Ok , I think I got it, I think I go for the R12 . But now the real problem= how to transport the concept over to my builder, leave no gaps etc, he is very good but... Are there ceiling plates available with insulation on it ?

Electric cable heat comment was a reminder = think of HEAT, because I want all cables replaced with triple wiring, for safety reasons. I don´t want to rip the walls open, I thought of cables along the walls hidden under toe-boards,

I´m also worried about good grounding

[piusmann]

Staycool from scg 6"

Works wonders

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