Scams in buying a condo

[pgardiner]

I need some advice, maybe someone has been here before! Am looking to buy a condo in Pattaya. found one i l liked and agreed on a price with the owner who is seemily out of the country. Am asked to leave a deposit. I contact my solicitor with the details and to a large extent let her handle it. To try and shorten the story the agent said the owner had flown in and signed a power of attorney and on settlement date the agent wanted the money transferred not into the sellers account who they claimed didn"t have an account here but to the agents account. Must admit it sounded alarm bells. My solicitor was suspicious and told me there are many problems with power of attorney. Did the guy really exsist? Was he dead? Was it a scam or am I over-reacting?

[nowork114]

Simple, the agent want to make sure his commission is paid in advance... When I was selling my last condo the agent insisted to be paid from the deposit transferred by the buyer.

Personally I wouldn't buy a condo without direct contact with owner, way too many "grey" areas in Thai law with power of attorney. Owner, you + two witness (wife, solicitor juristic person manager of the condo or a good friend) is the safest way.

[tonyja]

Sound Fishy but TIT ( This is Thailand ) and everything is possible. Just watch it. There more than a million condos or apartments in Pataya for sale now. Just take your time and find the right ken with less hassle.

Sent from up to me from where it was sent

[givenall]

Do what make you feel safe no matter what the agent wants. I would not pay any money in advance since it is impossible to get the money back when is transferred. put all the safety in the place and pay the money only when you have a contract from the seller and pay to the seller and no more than 10% and then pay the rest in the land office after transfer (cashier check to name of the seller)

[KittenKong]

I would never hand over a cheque that wasn't payable to the property owner. The agent can sort his business out with him.

Personally I dont see the point of these large deposits at all for used condos. 10,000B is plenty.

[PattayaPhom]

What are the many problems with Power of Attorney, please explain what your lawyer said they are?

[pgardiner]

the lawyer explained that there were many conflicts in court regarding power of attorney, but did not specify any particular case,and from the other comments it appears to be confirmed, would you not agree?

[PattayaPhom]

the lawyer explained that there were many conflicts in court regarding power of attorney, but did not specify any particular case,and from the other comments it appears to be confirmed, would you not agree?

No, your lawyer has made a statement without any especific eveidence. We transfer properties where the owner has given POA to someone without difficulty.

[Delight]

Having never sold a property in Thailand-I must confess that my knowledge is next to zero.

However, certain concepts such as Escrow accounts or even E Bay could be used.- maybe!

Q Does the land office actually have to receive the total money -or just the tax?

[KittenKong]

POA or no POA, the cheque should be made out to the owner and crossed payee only. Anything else is unsatisfactory.

[KittenKong]

Q Does the land office actually have to receive the total money -or just the tax?

The Land Office is not interested in the actual payment, only the taxes.

[liddelljohn]

I have bought and sold many properties in Thailand and normal procedure by most agents , lawyer snd buyers and sellers is to only hand over the money to the seller by bankers draft at the land office whilst transfering the chanut ,

but also watch out for agents in league with certain land office officials issuing false chanuts ,( mainly pattaya) ,, only deal direct with the actual owneer at transfer time or you could lose a lot of money with no recourse in the courts as land office officials are untouchables .

[manarak]

POA:

This has to be a notarized document.

If the owner is abroad, his signature has to be certified and then legalized by the Thai Embassy in that country.

Deposit: 5% to 10% are common.

If the agent is a major, well known agent I wouldn't worry about paying the deposit onto the agent's company account - or in cash with a proper receipt and with witnesses.

Take a Thai lawyer with you to check that everything is correct.

Personally, I would not pay the principal by wire - I would do it by cashier check at the land office after the papers have been made.

If the seller pretends he has no account in Thailand, then pay to his lawyer's account.

It is not your problem if the buyer has difficulties to get the money out of Thailand. He probably lost his FX transaction paper.

[ezzra]

POA or no POA, the cheque should be made out to the owner and crossed payee only. Anything else is unsatisfactory.

Damn right ... 100%

[96tehtarp]

I have bought and sold many properties in Thailand and normal procedure by most agents , lawyer snd buyers and sellers is to only hand over the money to the seller by bankers draft at the land office whilst transfering the chanut ,

+1

Yes that is the most common, if not only way to do it.

[suthep songserm]

What are the many problems with Power of Attorney, please explain what your lawyer said they are?

I just bought a condo in cash. Apparently, upon transffering the title deeds , the ex owner came alone, but the title deeds has had two signatures of which either one can sign the transfers but luckily the kind officer at the land office advice usto have the co owner come and sign too. Reason though the first owner signed payments exchanged and all documents exchanged hands, the second owner can always turn the case around saying no permission is given; then legally you are at the losing end. Becareful my friend

[iancnx]

Something whiffy here. Walk away and find another. The market is awash with properties now.

The seller pays the agent. If it were me I would only hand the cash to my Lawyer. Let the sellers Lawyer deal with the agent and fees due.

Edited February 3, 2014 by iancnx

[pgardiner]

Thank you, kind friends, for helping me with your comments. Hopefully these comments will help just not me but many other farangs who could lose their life savings to unscrupuluous operators. Be very careful, I am not saying this was definetely a scam but just be careful everybody and don"t take any chances, you will never get your money back, regards to all

[OnMyWay2]

Renting is sounding better by the day

[cheeryble]

POA:

This has to be a notarized document.

If the owner is abroad, his signature has to be certified and then legalized by the Thai Embassy in that country.

Deposit: 5% to 10% are common.

If the agent is a major, well known agent I wouldn't worry about paying the deposit onto the agent's company account - or in cash with a proper receipt and with witnesses.

Take a Thai lawyer with you to check that everything is correct.

Personally, I would not pay the principal by wire - I would do it by cashier check at the land office after the papers have been made.

If the seller pretends he has no account in Thailand, then pay to his lawyer's account.

It is not your problem if the buyer has difficulties to get the money out of Thailand. He probably lost his FX transaction paper.

Both sides must of course complete a witnessed sales agreement if you choose to pay a deposit fully specifying what happens if anyone pulls out.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

[cheeryble]

What are the many problems with Power of Attorney, please explain what your lawyer said they are?

I just bought a condo in cash. Apparently, upon transffering the title deeds , the ex owner came alone, but the title deeds has had two signatures of which either one can sign the transfers but luckily the kind officer at the land office advice usto have the co owner come and sign too. Reason though the first owner signed payments exchanged and all documents exchanged hands, the second owner can always turn the case around saying no permission is given; then legally you are at the losing end. Becareful my friend

I think it's fair to say that if the LO accept the transfer.....when they give you the OK to hand over the leukah.....it's safe.

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[properperson]

bloke down our way rents...reccons its the way forward.....

[Big Guy]

My wife and I have bought land before using a lawyer who had power of attorney, it is quite common and the land office took photos of all persons involved and verified the poa before deal was done. The wealthy in thailand will do plenty of land transactions and I can guarantee they don't go and do the transfers personally in the land office.