Shots, blasts as protest rivals clash on Thai election eve

[mikemac]

Seeing that this topic has turned into a pro-reds/anti Suthep versus anti-reds/anti-Thaksin fiasco I have one question to ask the pro-reds/anti-Suthep's.

Personally I have nothing against the red-shirt ideology, that is wealth should be more evenly distributed thereby narrowing the gap between the have's and have-nots and also reducing the influence of the entitled. I am all for inheritance tax and land tax as these are the two significant areas that the have's propagate their control of wealth and power. My question is how can the red shirts continue to support a leader (Thaksin) who has been convicted of corruption in several cases, attempted to pass an Amnesty law (which has been ruled as unconstitutional), and concocted the rice-pledging scheme at the loss of billions of baht for taxpayers be seen as having the competence, good governance and legitimacy to lead Thailand? I'm neither saying the Democrats or Suthep are competent either but how can you really justify Thakinsomics? The red shirts need to support someone else other then PTP (Thaksins) who have a better track record to lead their cause so that the other side cannot justify their need to uprise.

smiley, they would support anyone as long as the pay was good. They have no interest in the good of the country, as they proved to the world in 2010, only making the most out of being paid mercenaries. The only ones who do not realize this, or refuse to admit it are the thugs themselves, the Isaan people who have been lied to and brainwashed, and the "redneck" farangs who have limited intelligence and black hearts. Hence the term "redneck".

[blundaman]

Seeing that this topic has turned into a pro-reds/anti Suthep versus anti-reds/anti-Thaksin fiasco I have one question to ask the pro-reds/anti-Suthep's.

Many of us are on neither side, but we support the right to vote.

from globalresearch.ca/thailand-government-prepares-war-of-terror-against-thai-population-i-want-there-to-be-lots-of-violence-to-put-an-end-to-all-this/5366950

http://www.globalresearch.ca/thailand-government-prepares-war-of-terror-against-thai-population-i-want-there-to-be-lots-of-violence-to-put-an-end-to-all-this/5366950

listen up cos it's the definitive article

sparks of the tempest

live version

..point of know return indeed

i'm off to a prayer meet, namaste

[sandhurstmolonski]

Being an American and a veteran I would give my life for the right to vote. If anyone or group tried to stop me from voting I would lay down my life and fight for my right to vote. My hats off to the supporters of those who support the right to vote. If Police or my didn't protect my right to vote I would go after those who want to stop the election and democracy. It doesn't mater who wins or loses the election but my freedom and right to vote. Suthep and his violent supporters should be arrested and held accountable for blocking democracy and the right for people to vote.

So True ... Its a Fight for Democracy .

You cant just say " Sorry , we dont Like you " ..The percentage turnout will be Trashed by the Violence .

Its not a Case of Who Wins ...The Fight is for Democracy , and the Right to Vote .

If Im a Shirt ..Im a White Shirt , many of these Individuals may preference the Policies of the Yellow . But the Vote is the Issue ..

Democracy is the Issue .

No Right / Wrong ..No support of any particular side .

Lets hope and Pray , that things and Calm down , and that Loss of Life and Injury is minimised . Individuals must be allowed to Vote .

[Publicus]

take away people's basic human rights and you can expect a backlash

most of the world fights FOR elections - and Thailand fights to STOP them

Your words show your ignorance of the situation.

Human rights are an abstract (and modern) concept created by the a few countries in the West. There is no such thing as human rights!

I'm sure you're not concerned overly with so called human rights when you're hiring a woman.

You certainly got a hair across your arse today, or are you like this every day.

Hitler'a army also was a regular army, very disciplined and under control of politicians. Most people focus too much on labels and too little on principles. In principle their is no difference between a hit man and a soldier. Both kill people on request for money. Give it whatever name you want.

And Hitler had three main paramilitary goups, the Sturm Abteilung, the S.A., known as the Storm Troops, the Schutzstaffel known as the SS, and the Jugend, or Hitler Youth, the HJ, a number of whom famously ratted on their parents or relatives. The HJ gradually became paramilitary.

I'm sure now I also need to expand on what paramilitary forces are to include what the photos in this thread also show, ie that paramilitary also includes a group or groups of civilians that are organized in a military manner to operate clandestinely, or in place of, or to assist, regular army troops. It doesn't take anyone here much imagination to figure out who trains these civilians to operate as an irregular paramilitary force that complements the regular army troops.

Fascists.

[Old Man River]

As I get more than my share of flames here. BBC just tweeted and their guy took this pic of PDRC in action.

Get over it you guys, This is the PDRC, they are armed and there are army personel amongst them. This is so out in the open and everybody.... and I do mean everybody, is printing these pics of PDRC fully armed, holding ballot papers hosgage.

People are bleating about the reds confronting them. It was PDRC laying seige to the ballot papers that started this. The the army are once again being photo'd working with the fascists, the game is up. Can be no pretence tonight from the stage, The Great Suthep is again revealed as a two faced, lying fascist fraudster who changes his rants every night to fit his unstable mood.

@BBCBreaking @pakhead outrageous that these protesters are wearing armbands that are the same color as TJA armbands for journalists!

Just curious does the guy second from the left look Thai?

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[sandhurstmolonski]

Seeing that this topic has turned into a pro-reds/anti Suthep versus anti-reds/anti-Thaksin fiasco I have one question to ask the pro-reds/anti-Suthep's.

Many of us are on neither side, but we support the right to vote.

from globalresearch.ca/thailand-government-prepares-war-of-terror-against-thai-population-i-want-there-to-be-lots-of-violence-to-put-an-end-to-all-this/5366950

http://www.globalresearch.ca/thailand-government-prepares-war-of-terror-against-thai-population-i-want-there-to-be-lots-of-violence-to-put-an-end-to-all-this/5366950

listen up cos it's the definitive article

sparks of the tempest

live version

..point of know return indeed

i'm off to a prayer meet, namaste

I would have Thought that the ONLY way , was certainly to be on Neither Side . The Side of Democracy and the right to Vote is the Truly important Issue here .

[drand11]

Dems are blinded. They tuly think this is about "reform". This is a Power grab by the Dems. Suthep didnt do reform after his role in the Military Govt and there will be no reform now! Dems have no desire to change their policies to be inclusive of the farmers to win farmer votes. This is far too much work for the Dems and they have failed to do so for 30 years! So what other options do Dems have? Power Grab!!

[brewsterbudgen]

The logic of some westerners here who support red terrorist cells is just laughable. Let us recap. The core red shirt leader, Ko Tee and others publicly admit that they have been moving arms and weapons to Bangkok for the last few months, they publicly admit that they cannot wait for the civil war to start so they can PURGE the elite, they've been continually attacking protesters throughout January which resulted in regrettable loss of life and numerous injuries etc...etc... and yet you act surprised when the other side on the political divide takes some measure to protect their people and themselves. <deleted> is wrong with you people? Ko Tee claimed they plan a campaign of terror and mass murder of the elite. According to all unbiased sources this particular incident was caused by the red terror cell which was dispatched to remove protesters from the particular site. They attacked first and were met with the resistance. PDCR guards have duty to protect people. Or you wish to deny them right to defend themselves and people around? If you were the elite would you let some clearly deranged people come to your city and purge your family members? Any normal person would take preventive measures. It's tragic than neither the army nor the police can guarantee people security. Get a life.

Yes, right to vote but under the normal circumstances. Yes, right to vote when the amnesty bill is finally buried. All this mess, waste of life, waste of time, waste of country's financial resources, all of that just to whitewash crimes of a single man. Bloody disgrace. Do not even try to justify it. And don't give me that cheap argument about people's right to vote.

It's a shame you consider people's right to vote a "cheap argument". However it says everything about the paucity of your argument.

[iamariva1957]

The worst thing about all of this is the fact that no matter what the election outcome might be... both sides will complain and say that that there was a fix in and that the results are worthless. People will be hurt and even killed and the country will fall into turmoil and all for what. For it will be politics as usual. To quote Tom Clancy from 'The Hunt For Red October', " I am a politician. If I am not kissing babies I am stealing their lollypops". Sort of sums it all up.

[pbeukelm]

Hitler'a army also was a regular army, very disciplined and under control of politicians. Most people focus too much on labels and too little on principles. In principle their is no difference between a hit man and a soldier. Both kill people on request for money. Give it whatever name you want.

I'm sure now I also need to expand on what paramilitary forces are to include what the photos in this thread also show, ie that paramilitary also includes a group or groups of civilians that are organized in a military manner to operate clandestinely, or in place of, or to assist, regular army troops

There are no civilian military para military human beings, just human beings. There is no such thing as clandestinely, it is just a term used by the guys who have the most guns for their opponents. Just like the term illegal. It means I control the courts, so I can call my army legal and yours clandestine.

It's when Alexander the Great brought up a pirate captain. The captain said: 'I have just 1 ship, so I am called a pirate, when you have many it is called a navy.'

[smileydude]

My question is how can the red shirts continue to support a leader (Thaksin) who has been convicted of corruption in several cases, attempted to pass an Amnesty law (which has been ruled as unconstitutional), and concocted the rice-pledging scheme at the loss of billions of baht for taxpayers be seen as having the competence, good governance and legitimacy to lead Thailand? I'm neither saying the Democrats or Suthep are competent either but how can you really justify Thakinsomics? The red shirts need to support someone else other then PTP (Thaksins) who have a better track record to lead their cause so that the other side cannot justify their need to uprise.

Isn't it the same trick everywhere? Obama, the hero of the small guy under who wealth disparity has reach new records and who goes on 15 million $ holidays.As long as people believe that a person who wants to subjugate you and rob you (taxation) has your best interest at hart, people are ripe for the picking. So you as a taxation proponent know the answer. Why do you think an entity with the right to take people's wealth and land and has theforce to back that, care about the people they can dominate.?

The trick is the same everywhere and you make some good points.

The thing is the world is not perfect and you try to pick the lesser of two evils.

Taxation of land and wealth in the US is high but it does not take away your wealth per se but is a mechanism that distributes wealth. I cannot definitively answer your last question but maybe Scandinavian countries with their high taxation rates and correspondingly high standards of living, safety stats, and low disparity of income can provide clues about how good governance and accountability CAN benefit the population if led by people with ethics and a clear conscience who must answer to the voters.

Edited February 2, 2014 by smileydude

[Mackie]

The logic of some westerners here who support red terrorist cells is just laughable. Let us recap. The core red shirt leader, Ko Tee and others publicly admit that they have been moving arms and weapons to Bangkok for the last few months, they publicly admit that they cannot wait for the civil war to start so they can PURGE the elite, they've been continually attacking protesters throughout January which resulted in regrettable loss of life and numerous injuries etc...etc... and yet you act surprised when the other side on the political divide takes some measure to protect their people and themselves. <deleted> is wrong with you people? Ko Tee claimed they plan a campaign of terror and mass murder of the elite. According to all unbiased sources this particular incident was caused by the red terror cell which was dispatched to remove protesters from the particular site. They attacked first and were met with the resistance. PDCR guards have duty to protect people. Or you wish to deny them right to defend themselves and people around? If you were the elite would you let some clearly deranged people come to your city and purge your family members? Any normal person would take preventive measures. It's tragic than neither the army nor the police can guarantee people security. Get a life.

Yes, right to vote but under the normal circumstances. Yes, right to vote when the amnesty bill is finally buried. All this mess, waste of life, waste of time, waste of country's financial resources, all of that just to whitewash crimes of a single man. Bloody disgrace. Do not even try to justify it. And don't give me that cheap argument about people's right to vote.

It's a shame you consider people's right to vote a "cheap argument". However it says everything about the paucity of your argument.

For heaven's sake, how can you even consider this joke of an election to be legitimate? Just have a look around you. Of course, it's a cheap argument because there are so many irregularities around that only utterly brainwashed and one sided people with vested interest could actually deem it legal. It's cheap argument because this election is not about people's right to vote. This election was pushed forward with the only one objective. To 'exonerate' criminals. Why mad rush to the election? To whitewash crimes of a single filthy rich individual? Is it worth going through all of this just because of a single middle-aged megalomaniac?

[firestar]

As I get more than my share of flames here. BBC just tweeted and their guy took this pic of PDRC in action.

Get over it you guys, This is the PDRC, they are armed and there are army personel amongst them. This is so out in the open and everybody.... and I do mean everybody, is printing these pics of PDRC fully armed, holding ballot papers hosgage.

People are bleating about the reds confronting them. It was PDRC laying seige to the ballot papers that started this. The the army are once again being photo'd working with the fascists, the game is up. Can be no pretence tonight from the stage, The Great Suthep is again revealed as a two faced, lying fascist fraudster who changes his rants every night to fit his unstable mood.

@BBCBreaking @pakhead outrageous that these protesters are wearing armbands that are the same color as TJA armbands for journalists!

Just curious does the guy second from the left look Thai?

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

There was foreign journalists following protesters on both sides.

But the shooter sure looks like the PDRC monk guard circled on the left.

Edited February 2, 2014 by firestar

[whybother]

Dems are blinded. They tuly think this is about "reform". This is a Power grab by the Dems. Suthep didnt do reform after his role in the Military Govt and there will be no reform now! Dems have no desire to change their policies to be inclusive of the farmers to win farmer votes. This is far too much work for the Dems and they have failed to do so for 30 years! So what other options do Dems have? Power Grab!!

The Democrats had policies that meant that the farmers got paid directly rather than money being syphoned off by the millers and middle men. A blind poll before last election also showed that people in the North/North East also preferred their policies. So it isn't as simple as "come up with policies for the farmers".

[pbeukelm]

O

My question is how can the red shirts continue to support a leader (Thaksin) who has been convicted of corruption in several cases, attempted to pass an Amnesty law (which has been ruled as unconstitutional), and concocted the rice-pledging scheme at the loss of billions of baht for taxpayers be seen as having the competence, good governance and legitimacy to lead Thailand? I'm neither saying the Democrats or Suthep are competent either but how can you really justify Thakinsomics? The red shirts need to support someone else other then PTP (Thaksins) who have a better track record to lead their cause so that the other side cannot justify their need to uprise.

Isn't it the same trick everywhere? Obama, the hero of the small guy under who wealth disparity has reach new records and who goes on 15 million $ holidays.As long as people believe that a person who wants to subjugate you and rob you (taxation) has your best interest at hart, people are ripe for the picking. So you as a taxation proponent know the answer. Why do you think an entity with the right to take people's wealth and land and has theforce to back that, care about the people they can dominate.?

The trick is the same everywhere and you make some good points.

The thing is the world is not perfect and you try to pick the lesser of two evils.

Taxation of land and wealth in the US is high but it does not take away your wealth per se but is a mechanism that distributes wealth. I cannot definitively answer your last question but maybe Scandinavian countries with their high taxation rates and correspondingly high standards of living, safety stats, and low disparity of income can provide clues about how good governance and accountability CAN benefit the population if led by people with ethics and a clear conscience who must answer to the voters.

It can never work out well for the governed. People don't have the right to steal and kidnap, so they can not delegate this right jt they do not have to a politician in a ballot box. The psychopath will always find their way to the top. Goverment5s killed 260 million people in the 20th century. Google democide. You can not make moral exceptions for people who put on a uniform. Taxation=robbery hand over your property at gunpoint.

Liberals always love guns as long as only the rulers have them.

Scandinavia is a mirage. Norway floats on oil, Denmark leads swallowing anti depressants and Sweden's companies are from the past.

To explain wealth disparity most of the times it is obtained through government and taxation. Did this guy in Dubai make his fortune with a great invention? Or with hard work or sound investments? I bet not. He got it through government privilige. Some monopolies were given to him? I mean I don't know the details, but I guess his wealth did not come from voluntary transactions. More freedom is therefore the answer to less disparity. As soon has someone says:I will make everyone equal if you give me the right to dominate you all,

He doesnot care about disparity

[Suradit69]

a man pulled an assault rifle from a bag and began spraying bullets WHY DON"T THEY JUST SAY IT AS IT IS! RED SHIRTS opened fire!

"WHY DON"T THEY JUST SAY IT AS IT IS! "

Your conclusion is likely, but neither you nor they know that for a fact.

Possibly they deserve some credit for reserving judgment ... which would be a novel idea here at the TV-hub-of-fact-free-conjecture (which I thought had been banned during these days of elevated tension)..

Edited February 2, 2014 by Suradit69

[firestar]

Dems are blinded. They tuly think this is about "reform". This is a Power grab by the Dems. Suthep didnt do reform after his role in the Military Govt and there will be no reform now! Dems have no desire to change their policies to be inclusive of the farmers to win farmer votes. This is far too much work for the Dems and they have failed to do so for 30 years! So what other options do Dems have? Power Grab!!

The Democrats had policies that meant that the farmers got paid directly rather than money being syphoned off by the millers and middle men. A blind poll before last election also showed that people in the North/North East also preferred their policies. So it isn't as simple as "come up with policies for the farmers".

Maybe if some yellow followers spent less time insulting a large part of the electorate these policies would have a much better chance of being heard.

[takkatan in the land]

this morning watching tv I got confused so much, for a moment it thought I was living in sudan or siria

then when the news guy started to speak in thai and I realized that the shouting were at laksi

LOS? not anymore

[newcomer71]

take away people's basic human rights and you can expect a backlash

most of the world fights FOR elections - and Thailand fights to STOP them

Your words show your ignorance of the situation.

Human rights are an abstract (and modern) concept created by the a few countries in the West. There is no such thing as human rights!

I'm sure you're not concerned overly with so called human rights when you're hiring a woman.

...and which country are you from?

[AleG]

The logic of some westerners here who support red terrorist cells is just laughable. Let us recap. The core red shirt leader, Ko Tee and others publicly admit that they have been moving arms and weapons to Bangkok for the last few months, they publicly admit that they cannot wait for the civil war to start so they can PURGE the elite, they've been continually attacking protesters throughout January which resulted in regrettable loss of life and numerous injuries etc...etc... and yet you act surprised when the other side on the political divide takes some measure to protect their people and themselves. <deleted> is wrong with you people? Ko Tee claimed they plan a campaign of terror and mass murder of the elite. According to all unbiased sources this particular incident was caused by the red terror cell which was dispatched to remove protesters from the particular site. They attacked first and were met with the resistance. PDCR guards have duty to protect people. Or you wish to deny them right to defend themselves and people around? If you were the elite would you let some clearly deranged people come to your city and purge your family members? Any normal person would take preventive measures. It's tragic than neither the army nor the police can guarantee people security. Get a life.

Yes, right to vote but under the normal circumstances. Yes, right to vote when the amnesty bill is finally buried. All this mess, waste of life, waste of time, waste of country's financial resources, all of that just to whitewash crimes of a single man. Bloody disgrace. Do not even try to justify it. And don't give me that cheap argument about people's right to vote.

This side of the story has been buried under a flood of posts by two or three confabulated posters.

[Publicus]

There's just no doubt paramilitary are out there now, and probably right now are resupplying themselves with ammunition expended earlier last night.

Since when do farang in China have access to personnel records of Thais in Thailand?

You shouldn't allow yourself to be so confused in public.

PM me if you want to know what the Chinese are doing and know about these developments in Thailand, because I can say to you the CCP and the PRChinese are, shall we say very, um, interested.

Please tell me you're not going to try and turn this thread into another one of your worldwide Chinese conspiracy to conquer the universe rants.

The confused poster initiated the subject so I made an offer to discuss the matter privately, away from the public board, so you might try to calm down..

(I hit the wrong button to get here, as you will see.)

[Publicus]

There's just no doubt paramilitary are out there now, and probably right now are resupplying themselves with ammunition expended earlier last night.

Since when do farang in China have access to personnel records of Thais in Thailand?

PM me if you want to know what the Chinese are doing and know about these developments in Thailand, because I can say to you the CCP and the PRChinese are, shall we say very, um, interested.

Sorry if you are apparently confused, but I was referring to your definitive postulation that could only come from someone reviewing personnel records of these unidentified individuals.

.

In the matter of paramilitary irregular forces, it's clear your powers of observation and to make obvious connections needs some considerable beefing up.

[whybother]

The Democrats had policies that meant that the farmers got paid directly rather than money being syphoned off by the millers and middle men. A blind poll before last election also showed that people in the North/North East also preferred their policies. So it isn't as simple as "come up with policies for the farmers".

Maybe if some yellow followers spent less time insulting a large part of the electorate these policies would have a much better chance of being heard.

So you're saying that because a few yellow shirts (who are sometimes not even Democrat supporters) say a few derogatory things, the people in N/NE won't even listen to what the Democrat policies are?

That shows how much thought goes into their decisions, doesn't it?

Maybe if the Democrat canvassers weren't hassled so much every time they tried to campaign in the N/NE, they would have a much better chance of being heard.

[Emptyset]

The logic of some westerners here who support red terrorist cells is just laughable. Let us recap. The core red shirt leader, Ko Tee and others publicly admit that they have been moving arms and weapons to Bangkok for the last few months, they publicly admit that they cannot wait for the civil war to start so they can PURGE the elite, they've been continually attacking protesters throughout January which resulted in regrettable loss of life and numerous injuries etc...etc... and yet you act surprised when the other side on the political divide takes some measure to protect their people and themselves. <deleted> is wrong with you people? Ko Tee claimed they plan a campaign of terror and mass murder of the elite. According to all unbiased sources this particular incident was caused by the red terror cell which was dispatched to remove protesters from the particular site. They attacked first and were met with the resistance. PDCR guards have duty to protect people. Or you wish to deny them right to defend themselves and people around? If you were the elite would you let some clearly deranged people come to your city and purge your family members? Any normal person would take preventive measures. It's tragic than neither the army nor the police can guarantee people security. Get a life.

Yes, right to vote but under the normal circumstances. Yes, right to vote when the amnesty bill is finally buried. All this mess, waste of life, waste of time, waste of country's financial resources, all of that just to whitewash crimes of a single man. Bloody disgrace. Do not even try to justify it. And don't give me that cheap argument about people's right to vote.

This side of the story has been buried under a flood of posts by two or three confabulated posters.

Koh Tee may be a loose cannon and a loudmouth, but his group was outgunned by the PDRC. It appeared to be hand guns vs M16s. The red shirts fought with the group who came later on from Lad Phrao. The militants came with them. There was no violent clash before the group from Lad Phrao got there - other than the car the red shirts attacked, anyway. In fact the police had seemingly calmed the situation and the red shirts were on their way back to the temple when they encountered the group from Lad Phrao. Koh Tee was confrontational but by no means "terroristic", in this instance, at least.

[smileydude]

Seeing that this topic has turned into a pro-reds/anti Suthep versus anti-reds/anti-Thaksin fiasco I have one question to ask the pro-reds/anti-Suthep's.

Many of us are on neither side, but we support the right to vote.

from globalresearch.ca/thailand-government-prepares-war-of-terror-against-thai-population-i-want-there-to-be-lots-of-violence-to-put-an-end-to-all-this/5366950

http://www.globalresearch.ca/thailand-government-prepares-war-of-terror-against-thai-population-i-want-there-to-be-lots-of-violence-to-put-an-end-to-all-this/5366950

listen up cos it's the definitive article

sparks of the tempest

..

indeed

i'm off to a prayer meet, namaste

Point taken but to get things straight, Suthep and the anti-government protesters are not against the voting process per se either. They want reform before voting because the government has shown thru rampant vote buying, ghost ballots and populist polices that they are manipulating the results in their favor.

Would you trust a government with this kind of track record to run a clean and fair election?

Do you agree to reform before holding elections to ensure fairness and that whoever is elected must be accountable, transparent and adhere to good governance?

The government refuses to reform so the only choice of those who disagree is to show civil disobedience and abstain from voting in protest. Alot of people, including myself don't agree with some of Suthep's tactics but the main point stands.

Reform before elections.

Edited February 2, 2014 by smileydude

[brewsterbudgen]

The logic of some westerners here who support red terrorist cells is just laughable. Let us recap. The core red shirt leader, Ko Tee and others publicly admit that they have been moving arms and weapons to Bangkok for the last few months, they publicly admit that they cannot wait for the civil war to start so they can PURGE the elite, they've been continually attacking protesters throughout January which resulted in regrettable loss of life and numerous injuries etc...etc... and yet you act surprised when the other side on the political divide takes some measure to protect their people and themselves. <deleted> is wrong with you people? Ko Tee claimed they plan a campaign of terror and mass murder of the elite. According to all unbiased sources this particular incident was caused by the red terror cell which was dispatched to remove protesters from the particular site. They attacked first and were met with the resistance. PDCR guards have duty to protect people. Or you wish to deny them right to defend themselves and people around? If you were the elite would you let some clearly deranged people come to your city and purge your family members? Any normal person would take preventive measures. It's tragic than neither the army nor the police can guarantee people security. Get a life.

Yes, right to vote but under the normal circumstances. Yes, right to vote when the amnesty bill is finally buried. All this mess, waste of life, waste of time, waste of country's financial resources, all of that just to whitewash crimes of a single man. Bloody disgrace. Do not even try to justify it. And don't give me that cheap argument about people's right to vote.

It's a shame you consider people's right to vote a "cheap argument". However it says everything about the paucity of your argument.

For heaven's sake, how can you even consider this joke of an election to be legitimate? Just have a look around you. Of course, it's a cheap argument because there are so many irregularities around that only utterly brainwashed and one sided people with vested interest could actually deem it legal. It's cheap argument because this election is not about people's right to vote. This election was pushed forward with the only one objective. To 'exonerate' criminals. Why mad rush to the election? To whitewash crimes of a single filthy rich individual? Is it worth going through all of this just because of a single middle-aged megalomaniac?

If you think it's all about Thaksin you're being very naive. It goes a lot deeper than that. Buying into the demonisation of Thaksin makes it far easier to justify the megalomaniac Suthep's grab for power.

Paint it any way you like, but the denial of people's democratic right to choose their government is just plain wrong.

[sammyD]

PM me if you want to know what the Chinese are doing and know about these developments in Thailand, because I can say to you the CCP and the PRChinese are, shall we say very, um, interested.

.

Sorry if you are apparently confused, but I was referring to your definitive postulation that could only come from someone reviewing personnel records of these unidentified individuals.

.

In the matter of paramilitary irregular forces, it's clear your powers of observation and to make obvious connections needs some considerable beefing up.

.

What needs beefing up is your ability to not make such definitive declartions in the complete absence of definitive evidence.

Feel free to speculate all you want, but when you attempt to be so definitive, albeit less so now with your backtracking to "paramilitary irregulars", when no such definitive evidence is available, especially to someone so far away and without access to official records, is just silly.

.

Edited February 2, 2014 by sammyD

[whybother]

If you think it's all about Thaksin you're being very naive. It goes a lot deeper than that. Buying into the demonisation of Thaksin makes it far easier to justify the megalomaniac Suthep's grab for power.

Paint it any way you like, but the denial of people's democratic right to choose their government is just plain wrong.

It's not all about Thaksin's grab for power, but it's all about Suthep's grab for power.

... right ... ok ...

[BlueNoseCodger]

Point taken but to get things straight, Suthep and the anti-government protesters are not against the voting process per se either. They want reform before voting because the government has shown thru rampant vote buying, ghost ballots and populist polices that they are manipulating the results in their favor.

Would you trust a government with this kind of track record to run a clean and fair election?

Do you agree to reform before holding elections to ensure fairness and that whoever is elected must be accountable, transparent and adhere to good governance?

The government refuses to reform so the only choice of those who disagree is to show civil disobedience and abstain from voting in protest. Alot of people, including myself don't agree with some of Suthep's tactics but the main point stands.

Reform before elections.

No reform without an electoral mandate.

Suthep is not even the leader of the Democrats, he wasn't popular enough among his own party to lead it. So if the yellows don't trust him to lead the party, why should Thai people trust him to lead the country?

[sammyD]

Since when do farang in China have access to personnel records of Thais in Thailand?

You shouldn't allow yourself to be so confused in public.

PM me if you want to know what the Chinese are doing and know about these developments in Thailand, because I can say to you the CCP and the PRChinese are, shall we say very, um, interested.

Please tell me you're not going to try and turn this thread into another one of your worldwide Chinese conspiracy to conquer the universe rants.

The confused poster initiated the subject so I made an offer to discuss the matter privately, away from the public board, so you might try to calm down..

]

The confused poster is the one that initiated the exchange by making definitive statements in the absence of definitive proof.

.